Does a jump in time skip any continuity problems?
The Monster Thread Of Doom.
Do we have opinons?
I'm sure if you did a quick search, you would see just how much opinion we have on the subject, hehe.
The general way of looking at Paizo's version compared to the Athas.org version is that Paizo's version is more PHB-centric while Athas.org's is more setting-centric. So really, there's something for all types of Dark Sun fans.
The other issue with the Paizo version is there will be no future support for the product. Other than the 2 dragon issues and 2 dungeon issues (quite a lot of attention by them by the way) they cannot make any money by providing continous support/revision/errata of the material.
IMO that is why they really shouldn't be doing complete campaign treatments and instead focus on the inserts/variant rules/prestige class type of thing that can stand alone without any follow up. It is how they can make money and survive.
2 Dragon's (1 with defiling rules, 1 with the Paizo core rules)
2 Dungeon's (1 w/ the adventure, DM info, and DS monster and the 2nd issue with more mosters).
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Dragon #315 also did a 'quickie' once over of classic campaigns. Supposedly it was to focus on settings no longer being supported by WotC. But they included a write up on Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft and Ghostwalk (a new setting, not a classic) and left off Starjammer.
For example …
What do people think of the entries for the City States?
How did a puppet get the power to elevate himself to a dragon without anyone noticing?
How did a SK escape the Hollow/Black when Rajaat couldn't?
Originally posted by Frazeal
What do people think of the entries for the City States?
They are cool. I actually only remember one in certain details: Gulg. In 2E the people lived in mud huts, iirc, and brambleweed enclosures. As for the Bizaro Dark Sun version, they live in giant Crescent Forest trees. A combination of both ideas would make for a better Gulg than either the original or the new version. IMO.
How did a puppet get the power to elevate himself to a dragon without anyone noticing?
Yeah, how? Thinking of it, Paizo states that the dragon metamorphosis is a ritual in which you don't need psionics, just arcane might. That would help considerably in lowering the requirements of the process, making it more plausible for someone to stay off the radar while getting up to par. On the other end, the new king they put on the throne was a young psion, not a defiler apprentice. So it would take a long time to get from 0 to about 20th-level in defiler, wouldn't you think?
How did a SK escape the Hollow/Black when Rajaat couldn't?
Be it in Vanilla DS version or in many fan's homebrew games, Andropinis is eventually released from emprisonment in the Black. The important factor here is "Black", compaired to the Hollow. That last one is an invention of the Champions, resulting from the casting of a spell, that brings into existence a small zone under the Black that can contain anything and won't let it out again, under any internal circumstances as long as energy is provided from outside to maintain the zone. It contains Rajaat, not Andropinis, and is quite successful at it.
Traping someone in the Black, on the other end, is a simpler, more straightforward process. It functions like a curse (think of the curse set upon the Dark Lens that forbids the Champions from ever learning or divining its position) that stops you from steping out of that plane. Think of it as being traped in the prison plane of Carceri. There are plenty of ways of getting out of that one: all it requires is time, power and external help. Or something exotic, like for Andropinis in the Dim Sun version.
It seemed pretty accurate - though was the four legged guy in golden armour leading the procession supposed to be hamanu? :sad: Thats the impression i got from reading some of the posts on this forum.
It was after all a pretty short article so i was okay with the shortcuts ie the sorceror kings just been generic 22nd level wizard/psions and having dragon physical abilities, the limited 'fluff' and background.
I liked that it was pushed 300yrs into the future.
Then i bought the dragon magazine and was unimpressed. Guess paladins popped out of the woodwork in the next 300 years, and dwarves finally hit puberty, and the half-giants started shrinking.
All i would use would be the 300yr setting, i like that it has gone back to the original evil-has-won feel.
None of this hope nonsense and good guys winning - if i wanted that id read Dragonlance books.
I would like to know what the deal is with a few of the wierd events (new SKs, returning SK's, undead SK's suddenly thinking undead are the best) but been a DM ill have to work something out.
I was happy with the city states entries, but was probably reading what i already knew and ignoring any differences
I think atzetl(sp) is actually a clone of Tec - im sure tec would be powerful enough to mask his true abilities and act like a peon. Then when he felt he was powerful enough - BAM! no more academy of the mind(or whatever it was called) and hes back.
I also will play androponis as he escaped been trapped by never actually been trapped , but needed time to heal/recover and when he returned to balic he DIDNT have maenads with him (because i dont like them).
Dregoth has gone off his rocker and killed all his dray when they didnt live up to what he wanted (1st and 2nd gen). i think all the undead are just tools for him, hes on the surface looking for a new 'chosen race' to worship Dregoth the God.
Originally posted by Kamelion
The Monster Thread Of Doom.
Cute. Lets all forget we ever wrote in that one and take a time out for some cotton candy
Originally posted by Pennarin
Cute. Lets all forget we ever wrote in that one and take a time out for some cotton candy
You kidding me?
I read it all over again just for the fun of it.
Sorry, but that little idea alone could spark tons of adventures in and of itself. Thanks much.
As for Atzetuk, he does have 300 years to try and attain the power to become a dragon. Most PCs attain 20th lvl within 5-10 years after their career's have started. Shouldn't be too hard then for a king with more resources at his disposal than any adventurer could dream of. Course, there is the Temple of the Mind to deal with, but I'm sure that could be easily explained away.
While Andropoinis is specifically stated as having been imprisoned in the Black by Rajaat during the end of the Cerrulean Storm novel for 1,000 years, I just can't bring myself to think that Rajaat's special little curse could be thwarted. Even with SK worshiping dwarves tripping on their beards, this is one greviance I can't seem to forgive the articles for. But I digress. The only way that I could explain it would be that Andropoinis serves out his imprisonment of 1,000 years, stumbles then across the manaed (sp?), then travels back to a point in time where the Piazo DS takes place. In my own campaign, I have Andropoinis working from the future after his release from imprisonment, so it would take little for me to alter this tidbit to fit in better with the articles.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
You kidding me?
I read it all over again just for the fun of it.
When I want to have fun I go read the [intentionnaly deleted] Dark Sun message boards - which I found on your site, thank you. ;) Reading the boards there you get the feeling everyone's a newbie. Weird. Its like they never made a search of the DS boards for a bit of info they needed, or haven't pilfered the pages of a sourcebook in years...
...plus you get to see Grummore wade into a sea of disinformation and general never-read-the-books-but-I-think-I-can-give-an-informed-opinion-nevertheless. Its like everyone's WarOverlord over there.
You wonder why they didn't switch to the official DS boards years ago...
I find it hard to imagine atzetuk became a sorceror king without any of the psionicists noticing. But maybe over time they realised they needed the pawn more than the pawn needed them, and were trapped. They couldnt kill him since it would cause mass unrest, and the people might not accept another ruler.
Maybe atzetuk struck before the psionicists expected, and then after that became a sorceror king.
Or maybe its a load of bunkum and the psionicists still control atzetuk - its not like the citizens would know whether atzetuk was a SK or not.
Do the Athas.org people have/want the rights to develop the paizo version? or are they each in their own alternate universes?
It would make sense considering Atzetuk was no where near the level to achieve dragonhood himself.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Pennarin
When I want to have fun I go read the [intentionnaly deleted] Dark Sun message boards - which I found on your site, thank you. ;)
Not even sure what you are referring to, provide the link next time dammit. :P
Or maybe I'm missing the sarcasm?
Originally posted by DracoChapel
Do the Athas.org people have/want the rights to develop the paizo version? or are they each in their own alternate universes?
I'm going to pretend you didn't ask those two questions.
However, if you want the answers I suggest you search around a bit, not hard to find at all. ;)
Originally posted by Pennarin
The link is Planet D&D Dark Sun message boards. Just don't tell them I said that
Ooooh, those guys, heh.
Originally posted by afromonkey
I found that there is no comparison between the old and the new.
Amen brother!