* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : New OOP acquisitions! Please comment Started at 09-01-03 11:57 PM by Elendur Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=92520 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Elendur Date : 09-01-03 11:57 PM Thread Title : New OOP acquisitions! Please comment I just got back from a convention and I got these modules, all $2 each. S2 - White Plum Mountain S3 - Expedition to Barrier Peaks U2 - Danger at Dunwater N1 - Against the Cult of the Reptile God I1 - Dwellers of the Forbidden City X3 - Curse of Xanathon B1 - In Search of the Unknown I was really only looking for the S modules, but the vendor was selling so cheap I thought I'd pick up some others. S2 is in almost new condition. I feel sorry for the kid who never got to play it. :) S3 is pretty beat up but its all there, and oh that glorius Otus art! In color even! So anyway, what can anyone tell me about N1 and I1? I've heard good things about the U series, and I think I have access to the other ones, worth running? Could you run one as a one shot or do they need to be run all together? Any memories of X3? I had this as a kid but lost it somehow. I remember thinking it was cool then. The B1 was purchased for curiosities sake. Probably the best thing about it is the filled in blanks the original owner penciled in. He somehow managed to get 3 lines into about a 1/2 inch space. I may have to get a handwriting analyst in on it. However I do see the word 'hobgoblin' a lot in it, so I guess he had a theme. So I'd like to hear comments about these modules, and whether any might be good to stick in my game(which is running the A,G,D,Q,S series). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Algolei Date : 09-02-03 02:02 AM I remember Against the Cult of the Reptile God. Oddly enough, everyone I know who played in it thought there was too much roleplaying required. :confused: Basically, the "dungeon" part of it consists of less than 7 pages out of the 28 page module. The rest is devoted to solving the mystery, interacting with NPCs...y'know, junk like that. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : NeutralNeutral Date : 09-02-03 05:47 AM N1 is excellent, but its too hard for first level characters. *Spoiler* U1, the players investigate a haunted mansion, which turns out to be a smugglers base, then in the second half they attack the smugglers' ship. It turns out the smugglers are running wepaons to a tribe of lizardmen..on to U2. An excellent beginners module, although you need to cut down the treasure. It works fine as a one-off, you just change the smuggler's "secret". U3 ive never read, i guess it depends on what you think of underwater adventuring. (go kick Sauhaigin ass). Ive heard its too hard for players who come straight from U1 and U2 so you need toinsert something to give them a level or two. Theres plenty of ways to link N1 to U1-2-3, a campaign of those four modules could lead into A1. I1 is one of those frustrating old modules where the "big picture" is more interesting than the actual adventure itself. But if you want a campaign in a lost city in a jungle, its a decent place to start. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Kamelion Date : 09-03-03 02:55 AM I recall playin "Xanathon" years back and remember it as fun. A bit railroaded, but with some very cool encounters and NPCs. (The manticore on the mountain path freaked the stuffing outta me!) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Thailfi Date : 09-03-03 09:14 AM You will have fun with most of these, but be careful with Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. The items acquired in this module are game brakers, very overpowered. If the characters continue on after this module, you will have to do some serious adjusting to give your monsters a chance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Lost_and_Damned Date : 09-03-03 09:53 AM White Plume Mountain is a killer Dungeon, what with the swinging platforms and the huge crab in the inflatable room.... expect high PC looses, if played badly.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Algolei Date : 09-04-03 05:55 AM I just picked up a copy of U1 myself today for $5. :D Sure, I downloaded it for free from the WotC site ages ago, but having the original with the blue maps on the folding screen cover = Sweet. *snif* I'm so happy. :cloud9: It's been previously used, and whoever had it in the past took the players' handout map and applied fire to it to give it a worn look; it's burnt around the edges, and the list of pregenerated characters that was on the other side is mostly missing and/or charred. But apart from that, the thing looks almost like new--the cover glistens like it just came off the...uh, module making machine...thingie. I never had a copy of U1 before because someone else always had it--every DM I've ever played with, basically. Since I didn't want to ruin it for myself, I never bought a copy. (I knew I'd cheat and read it to find out what my DMs were "doin' wrong." ;) ) Now I've got it. Finally. :cloud9: :confused: I hope this doesn't mean I've reached the pinnacle of happiness and the rest of my life is all downhill! :b: Oh well, whatever. Back to my cloud. :cloud9: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Elendur Date : 09-04-03 11:03 AM I know what you mean. I have to look at my S3 module for short periods of time, to avoid drooling all over it. It has 2 map covers instead of one, so thats six maps, plus a separate book of artwork, including 4 pages of full color glossy artwork. They don't make them like that anymore! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Habronicus Date : 09-04-03 08:50 PM Thread Title : Re: New OOP acquisitions! Please comment Originally posted by Elendur I just got back from a convention and I got these modules, all $2 each. B1 - In Search of the Unknown Hey, if you decide to use it, could you drop by this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90956) and share your experience? :D I wanted to share ideas around several modules, and this is my first attempt, but it doesn't seem like a lot of people care to do the same... Either that or they own the thing but never used it ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Dragonchild Date : 09-04-03 09:42 PM S2 - White Plume Mountain It's a cute idea -- the classic relic hunt -- but I see two major flaws with the module. One, the artifacts are too tempting. Many gamers are likely to snatch-n'-run than deliver them as promised, and they are way too powerful for the party's level (and the rest of the treasure is pretty lean). Two, the dungeon is more bizarre than tasteful. It's easy for a DM to balance out the treasure (make the artifacts important yet useless to the party, and add more loot), but the dungeon itself remains more likely to weird players out than get them excited. S3 - Expedition to Barrier Peaks A fabulous idea that aged like a botched face lift. The idea is worthy of being revisited, as long as the technology gets a serious make-over ("What's this? A Game Boy on a stick??") and they do away with the annoying vegepygmies. Also, too much of the equipment is operational: S3 is a real Monty Haul crawl that can seriously hurt the campaign down the road. I'd steal the idea and map, but ditch the rest. Make your own gagdets (or borrow from Star Wars d20), wipe out the vegepygmies, and make most of the equipment non-functional. If you insist on an infestation (which is likely, given the setting), pick something a little more intimidating than three-foot-tall walking weeds. Were I to revisit S3, I'd have D&D heroes fighting aliens (as per the movie Aliens) with the help of plundered Star Wars d20 technology. One could even include survivors from the SWd20 universe in the stasis room. U2 - Danger at Dunwater Lacking the prequel takes a lot away from this adventure. The premise is good, but as long as you own U2, you really ought to hunt down U1: The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, which sets up U2 and is a far superior adventure. The sequel (U3) isn't all that good, or necessary. I1 - Dwellers of the Forbidden City A nice idea, but publishing a half-finished adventure is a cop-out in my book. I make changes as it is, so as long as I'm dishing out money, don't make me do any unnecessary work. I like how the entrances and various populations were fleshed out, but they essentially left the city mostly unfinished and marketed it as "opportunity". B1 - In Search of the Unknown As per I1. B1 was advertised as an "instructional" module, but frankly, I see it as a half-finished dungeon. The premise is also rather weak -- why would a hideout of such powerful legends be so full of scrubs? In terms of gaming fun, at $2 a pop, you got your money's worth, but not much more than that. Some of these are good, but none crack my Top Ten. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Druixin Date : 09-04-03 09:46 PM - You might have better luck getting feedback with something other than B1 (AKA "The Empty Dungeon".) My own take is that of all those listed, only S2 is playable as written. My comments on S2 were posted recently in the "A Stupid Question" thread- you might want to go there and read them. S3 is, like most Gygax modules, incredibly fun to read but basically unplayable. As always, there's a save-or-die situation around every corner. There's also a HUGE amount of empty real estate for the number of encounters, and players can wander around for hours without finding anything. (I'd take the extreme step of drawing an entirely new (smaller) map and relocating all the encounter areas before trying to play it.) I'm surprised Thailfi felt the high-tech items in S3 are overpowered- most of them have a VERY small number of charges left. The illustration booklet for S3 is wonderful, though. It makes me long for the days when game companies lavished such care on their products. I1 is similar: there's a lot of good material but it's spread out over such a large map that the players will probably spend a lot of time just wandering. Also, there's not much in terms of clear goals for the party to accomplish. I'd try to invent a strong story and clear objectives for the players, and, again, I'd draw a smaller map. I can't say much about the others. My players and I had a great time in U1; U2 is probably also good, although I never ran it. N1 is kind of a rehash of the Village of Hommlet (T1); X3 feels like it was rolled up randomly. My favorites of the early '80s modules, in terms of flavor, story, and playability, would be "S2-White Plume Mountain," "T1-The Village of Hommlet,"and "U1- The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Dragonchild Date : 09-05-03 03:42 AM I'm surprised Thailfi felt the high-tech items in S3 are overpowered- most of them have a VERY small number of charges left. I can't speak for Thailfi, but in my experience, the charges added up. IIRC, if you swept the "dungeon" and held off using the gadgets long enough, you'd finish the module with several hundred to several thousand rounds of needler ammo, for example, and more than enough guns to arm the entire party. Even if game balance wasn't the issue, there's something disturbing about the mental image I get regarding taking these gadgets out of the Barrier Peaks and along the next adventure. I also neglected to mention that S3 is one of the most difficult adventures to avoid metagaming in. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Druixin Date : 09-05-03 09:32 AM ...if you swept the "dungeon" and held off using the gadgets long enough, you'd finish the module with several hundred to several thousand rounds of needler ammo, for example, and more than enough guns.... -- You are SO right about the metagaming issue. (This is a common problem in the Gygax modules.) I guess the question of the tech items being overpowered is partially a question of varying play styles. My old group of players just weren't thorough/obsessive enough to "sweep" a dungeon, so the amount of hardware they would've picked up would probably have been limited. But ...did you ever actually *play* the module? If you follow the module's "Gamma World"-style flowcharts for figuring out how to use the items, there's a good chance that a player will either break that laser pistol or shoot himself before he figures it out. Also, even if the PCs DO acquire and learn a lot of gadgets, the setting is still lethal- the "froghemoth" has 105 hit points and swallows opponents whole on a roll of 19 or 20. So I'd guess the players would need all the help they can get. This was written for 1st Edition, remember- the *12th level fighter* in the "tournament play" section has only *54 hit points.* As far as the "PCs running rampant with high-tech weapons in a medieval fantasy setting," I can see why you found that disturbing. I actually thought the concept was pretty cool. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Elendur Date : 09-05-03 01:39 PM Thanks for the replies. The artifacts in S2 will be handled by having their Ego far above what the players can handle. So if they want to keep them, they are in for some trouble. The weapons in S3 will be handled by ceasing to function after a time. Habronicus, I won't be able to comment on B1 for you, since my players started with B2 and are now in A1. Like I said, I mainly bought it for curiosities sake. Dragonchild - What is your top ten? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Dragonchild Date : 09-05-03 03:29 PM But ...did you ever actually *play* the module? If you follow the module's "Gamma World"-style flowcharts for figuring out how to use the items, there's a good chance that a player will either break that laser pistol or shoot himself before he figures it out. You got me -- no, I haven't. However, without meta-gaming, I'd figure any high-tech items would go to the mage for analysis -- ancient relics would get the same treatment, after all. Furthermore, I'm not into this idea that high-tech items are so tough to figure out; the weapons in S3 were built for anthropomorphic races, and high-tech weapons are designed to be both durable and idiot-proof. For instance, a pistol comes with a grip specifically shaped to feel comfortable only when held properly; s/he may not know why, but no genius wizard would miss that detail. The device is more likely to fail during maintenance (which is involved but safe), or from lack thereof, than operation (which is designed to be brainless). Also, even if the PCs DO acquire and learn a lot of gadgets, the setting is still lethal- the "froghemoth" has 105 hit points and swallows opponents whole on a roll of 19 or 20. So I'd guess the players would need all the help they can get. By this you mean the ammo is likely to get used during the adventure itself, right? Not necessarily; survival requires resources, but S3 does not encourage the consumption of one in favor of another. An adequately equipped party could burn through relatively-easier-to-find arrows, potions, etc. in favor of saving the can't-get-anywhere else high-tech goodies until absolutely necessary. If they use up everything they bring in as well as everything they plunder, either they need some lessons in rationing from me, or the DM is too tough. As far as the "PCs running rampant with high-tech weapons in a medieval fantasy setting," I can see why you found that disturbing. I'm big into mood, and I can't imagine weaving, say, a ghost story with needler pistols. Dragonchild - What is your top ten? Among old 1st Edition classics? Hard to go by memory, but off the top of my head, in order of preference: I6: Ravenloft B7: Rahasia DL1: Dragons of Despair U1: The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh G1-3: Against the Giants I9: Day of Al'Akbar B3: The Palace of the Silver Princess B2: The Keep on the Borderlands B6: The Veiled Society D1-2: Descent into the Depths of the Earth -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Elendur Date : 09-05-03 05:11 PM Originally posted by Dragonchild Among old 1st Edition classics? Hard to go by memory, but off the top of my head, in order of preference: I6: Ravenloft B7: Rahasia DL1: Dragons of Despair U1: The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh G1-3: Against the Giants I9: Day of Al'Akbar B3: The Palace of the Silver Princess B2: The Keep on the Borderlands B6: The Veiled Society D1-2: Descent into the Depths of the Earth I just got DL1 signed by Tracy and Laura at DragonCon this weekend. One of my favs, but no plans to run it. The G's and the D's are coming up next. I'd like to see those other B modules I don't see how I could them in. Ravenloft might be good as a once shot. What are the level ranges? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Dragonchild Date : 09-08-03 12:31 AM I just got DL1 signed by Tracy and Laura at DragonCon this weekend. One of my favs, but no plans to run it. Why not? I dislike the linearity of Dragonlance, but the ruins of Xak Tsaroth and the surrounding areas are so well done they're infinitely re-useable. Just replace the premise with one of your own, swap the Disks of Mishakal with some important artifact relevant to your scenario (and while you're at it, make Khisanth's hoard more interesting), and you've got one of the best dungeon crawls ever made. I'd like to see those other B modules I don't see how I could them in. Do you mean you don't know how you'd obtain them, or you don't know how you'd incorporate them into a campaign? Either way, I'd disagree: They're neither hard to find nor hard to use. Ravenloft might be good as a once shot. What are the level ranges? Ravenloft good as a one-shot adventure? I strongly disagree. The module includes a card game of fates that scrambles not only key items in the adventure, but the very goal of the BBEG himself. If it's not fun the second time around, then no module is good enough to be revisited. As for the level ranges, Saltmarsh and all B modules are for level ranges 1-3. Ravenloft and Dragons of Despair are for mid-level ranges (4-7). Day of Al'Akbar and the GDQ modules are for high-level characters (8-12). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Lost_and_Damned Date : 09-08-03 04:45 AM Originally posted by Dragonchild Do you mean you don't know how you'd obtain them, or you don't know how you'd incorporate them into a campaign? Either way, I'd disagree: They're neither hard to find nor hard to use. unless you live in the UK, then the B, X, CM, M and other Original Dungeons & Dragons books are hard to get, every time one comes up, they fetch a fair few £s Originally posted by Dragonchild Ravenloft good as a one-shot adventure? I strongly disagree. The module includes a card game of fates that scrambles not only key items in the adventure, but the very goal of the BBEG himself. If it's not fun the second time around, then no module is good enough to be revisited. i agree wholeheartedly:D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Elendur Date : 09-08-03 01:53 PM Sorry, my last reply was a bit garbled. What I meant was, I'm running the G/D/Q series next, so my players will be at least 12th level after that. I'm guessing it would be hard to modify B series modules for that high level. What I meant about Ravenloft was I'm not interested in running a Ravenloft campaign, but running the original module might be fun. Again, the level range might be difficult to adjust. As for DL1, I don't think I could rip the dungeon out of the module and run it sans Dragonlance. I'm just too emotionally attached to it. If I ever do run it I'll run it with the pregenerated characters as part of the whole series. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : NeutralNeutral Date : 09-09-03 06:58 AM In Q1, theres a gate to a Ravenloft type world with a vampires castle etc.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:18 AM.