Human Races of Ansalon - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ferratus Jul 27, 2004 19:43:17	Originally posted by iltharanos Same with Dalamar, a dark-haired, dark-eyed Silvanesti when every other description we've got of the Silvanesti describes them as being light-haired and light-eyed. [/b]
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 27, 2004 19:57:25	actually yes:D
#3 iltharanos Jul 27, 2004 20:42:47	According to the 3rd edition Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Tales of the Lance Boxed Set, AD&D 2nd edition Monstrous Compendium Volume IV, AD&D 1st edition Dragonlance Adventures hardcover, the Elven Nations trilogy of novels, etc. the three main branches of elves on Ansalon have the following traits: Qualinesti Hair: Honey-Brown to Blonde Eyes: Brown or Blue Skin: "darker" than Silvanesti Silvanesti Hair: Light Brown to White-Blonde Eyes: Hazel Skin: Fair Kagonesti Hair: Black to Light Brown (rarely Silver-White) Eyes: Hazel Skin: Brown Ferratus, the descriptions you give for the Dragonlance elves seem disturbingly reminiscent of elf descriptions in the Forgotten Realms, which isn't exactly accurate. Your Silvanesti description = Moon elves, Qualinesti = Sun elves, Kagonesti = Green elves. I wouldn't necessarily say that the Nerakans, Kharolians, etc. are human subraces ... rather I'd say they're just human ethnicities. The only group that would truly qualify as a human subrace are the Brutes (Tarmaks), given their gross physical difference to "standard" humans. As to the general characteristics of the human cultures of Ansalon, your description coincides with the mental picture I've had of those peoples. I'm guessing you only meant to cover the major human ethnic groups of Ansalon, as you didn't mention the pink-skinned blonde-haired Lahutians of Estwilde, among others.
#4 ferratus Jul 27, 2004 22:16:03	Originally posted by iltharanos Ferratus, the descriptions you give for the Dragonlance elves seem disturbingly reminiscent of elf descriptions in the Forgotten Realms, which isn't exactly accurate. Your Silvanesti description = Moon elves, Qualinesti = Sun elves, Kagonesti = Green elves. Well, my descriptions come from the elves I know. Sithas, Alhana and Dalamar are the representations of Silvanesti that I know, and they are all pale with black hair. In contrast Kith-Kanan, Solostran, Laurana, Porthios and Gilthanas are all golden haired. So I sort of see the Silvanesti as being darker, more ethereal. Elves of the night, rather than glorious daytime. Then again, maybe they are trying to draw a paralell to the 2e "High Elves" and "Faerie Elves" where the prior were as you describe the Qualinesti, and the latter are as you describe the Silvanesti. Doesn't match my mental picture though, as seen through the elves that we have seen. I have read the old stuff though, and perhaps we should stick with it. Then again, since the elves are all in one big pot now, maybe it doesn't matter anymore. I wouldn't necessarily say that the Nerakans, Kharolians, etc. are human subraces ... rather I'd say they're just human ethnicities. All right, as long as we use it for non-human races as well. The only group that would truly qualify as a human subrace are the Brutes (Tarmaks), given their gross physical difference to "standard" humans. Well, they have the ears of elves, the beards of men, and the strength of ogres. I always thought they were the three races combined into one through interbreeding, as a result of a long unified society on their island subcontinent. A sort of "primal man" if you will. As to the general characteristics of the human cultures of Ansalon, your description coincides with the mental picture I've had of those peoples. Cool. I figured the Nerekans would have blue eyes to make them bright and shining, and black haired and sullen to show their corrupted culture. An ancient race lost to evil kind of thing. I'm guessing you only meant to cover the major human ethnic groups of Ansalon, as you didn't mention the pink-skinned blonde-haired Lahutians of Estwilde, among others. Well, let us pick them up. I know there was also a rather isolated peaceful tribe of who were dark skinned in Estwilde/Southern Nordmaar as well. As for the Lahutians themselves, I'm not completely sure they are human. I think perhaps the greygem took some savage pale monkeys and gave them the strength and cunning of men. What other ethnicities do you think are there? Ogres Blode: I picture these ogres as being very fat and brutish. Kern: Slender and wiry, almost like trolls in their appearance. Southern Ergoth: Beastial and muscular, like a panther. Dwarves Hill Dwarves: Brown or Black hair and brown eyes, seemingly of clay. The Neidar from the hills around Thorbardin are a clan of Hill Dwarves. Mountain Dwarves: Much more pale than the Neidar, with a propensity to have blonde (Hylar) or red hair (Daewar). Dark Dwarves: Albino with blond (Theiwar), grey (Daegar) or white hair (Zhakar). Smaller and more slender than other dwarves, but not enough to change their size category.
#5 cam_banks Jul 27, 2004 22:33:23	Originally posted by iltharanos Ferratus, the descriptions you give for the Dragonlance elves seem disturbingly reminiscent of elf descriptions in the Forgotten Realms, which isn't exactly accurate. Your Silvanesti description = Moon elves, Qualinesti = Sun elves, Kagonesti = Green elves. Alhana Starbreeze is a rarity among her people because she is raven-haired. The overwhelming majority of Silvanesti are lighter than that, including her father Lorac. Her son inherited her coloring, however. The DLCS gives accurate descriptions of the elven races, enough to form a clear picture of their differences. Cheers, Cam
#6 talinthas Jul 27, 2004 22:45:16	don't forget the Khur and the Nordmaarese- i view the former as somewhat turkish, and the latter as south indian.
#7 ferratus Jul 27, 2004 22:50:47	Originally posted by talinthas don't forget the Khur and the Nordmaarese- i view the former as somewhat turkish, and the latter as south indian. Well see, the thing is I don't want any ethnicity to exist in a vacuum, because it sort of shatters my sense of disbeleif. This is exactly the problem with simply copying earth cultures and lumping them together. It doesn't look like the cultures or the people themselves developed naturally. That's why I lumped the Nordmaarians as an "Northern Contient Ergothian" offshoot, and why I considered the Khur to be largely of Shu and Nerekan descent. So I chose four ethnicities. 3 are on different sides of the continent, and the fourth ethnicity came from another continent altogether. Then blend, mix and match.
#8 iltharanos Jul 27, 2004 23:09:34	As for further human ethnicities, the Abanasinians have always struck me as a distinctive population group. Using the above ethnic categories, I'd surmise that they are a mixture of Solamnic and Shu populations, a mixture that arose due to the devastation of the first Cataclysm. Abanasinians as a group would tend to be darker in skin tone then the Solamnics, but not so dark as the Shu. Hair color would range from Brown to Black and eye colors would be relatively dark as well. The Shu (or plainsmen) are described as being quite tall and beautiful, so the Abanasinian mix is likely to share some of these traits. A good example of an Abanasinian beauty would be someone akin to Kitiara uth Matar (yes I'm aware her father was Solamnic). The Seldjuk people of pre-cataclysm eastern Istar struck me as being South Indian in appearance ... perhaps a mixture of the Landed Ergothians and Nerakese. They were described in fairly good detail in the Kingpriest trilogy of novels. This isn't too far-fetched, as the conclusion of the Barbarian trilogy of novels has a mixed group of Landed Ergothians and the lighter-skinned people native to that area (presumably ancient Nerakese) living in shared communities across what would later become northern Istar.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

ferratus

Jul 27, 2004 19:43:17

Originally posted by iltharanos
Same with Dalamar, a dark-haired, dark-eyed Silvanesti when every other description we've got of the Silvanesti describes them as being light-haired and light-eyed.
[/b]

zombiegleemax

Jul 27, 2004 19:57:25

actually yes:D

iltharanos

Jul 27, 2004 20:42:47

According to the 3rd edition Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Tales of the Lance Boxed Set, AD&D 2nd edition Monstrous Compendium Volume IV, AD&D 1st edition Dragonlance Adventures hardcover, the Elven Nations trilogy of novels, etc. the three main branches of elves on Ansalon have the following traits:

Qualinesti
Hair: Honey-Brown to Blonde
Eyes: Brown or Blue
Skin: "darker" than Silvanesti

Silvanesti
Hair: Light Brown to White-Blonde
Eyes: Hazel
Skin: Fair

Kagonesti
Hair: Black to Light Brown (rarely Silver-White)
Eyes: Hazel
Skin: Brown

Ferratus, the descriptions you give for the Dragonlance elves seem disturbingly reminiscent of elf descriptions in the Forgotten Realms, which isn't exactly accurate. Your Silvanesti description = Moon elves, Qualinesti = Sun elves, Kagonesti = Green elves.

I wouldn't necessarily say that the Nerakans, Kharolians, etc. are human subraces ... rather I'd say they're just human ethnicities. The only group that would truly qualify as a human subrace are the Brutes (Tarmaks), given their gross physical difference to "standard" humans.

As to the general characteristics of the human cultures of Ansalon, your description coincides with the mental picture I've had of those peoples. I'm guessing you only meant to cover the major human ethnic groups of Ansalon, as you didn't mention the pink-skinned blonde-haired Lahutians of Estwilde, among others.

ferratus

Jul 27, 2004 22:16:03

Originally posted by iltharanos

Ferratus, the descriptions you give for the Dragonlance elves seem disturbingly reminiscent of elf descriptions in the Forgotten Realms, which isn't exactly accurate. Your Silvanesti description = Moon elves, Qualinesti = Sun elves, Kagonesti = Green elves.

Well, my descriptions come from the elves I know. Sithas, Alhana and Dalamar are the representations of Silvanesti that I know, and they are all pale with black hair. In contrast Kith-Kanan, Solostran, Laurana, Porthios and Gilthanas are all golden haired.

So I sort of see the Silvanesti as being darker, more ethereal. Elves of the night, rather than glorious daytime.

Then again, maybe they are trying to draw a paralell to the 2e "High Elves" and "Faerie Elves" where the prior were as you describe the Qualinesti, and the latter are as you describe the Silvanesti. Doesn't match my mental picture though, as seen through the elves that we have seen. I have read the old stuff though, and perhaps we should stick with it.

Then again, since the elves are all in one big pot now, maybe it doesn't matter anymore.

I wouldn't necessarily say that the Nerakans, Kharolians, etc. are human subraces ... rather I'd say they're just human ethnicities.
All right, as long as we use it for non-human races as well.

The only group that would truly qualify as a human subrace are the Brutes (Tarmaks), given their gross physical difference to "standard" humans.

Well, they have the ears of elves, the beards of men, and the strength of ogres. I always thought they were the three races combined into one through interbreeding, as a result of a long unified society on their island subcontinent. A sort of "primal man" if you will.

As to the general characteristics of the human cultures of Ansalon, your description coincides with the mental picture I've had of those peoples.

Cool. I figured the Nerekans would have blue eyes to make them bright and shining, and black haired and sullen to show their corrupted culture. An ancient race lost to evil kind of thing.

I'm guessing you only meant to cover the major human ethnic groups of Ansalon, as you didn't mention the pink-skinned blonde-haired Lahutians of Estwilde, among others.

Well, let us pick them up. I know there was also a rather isolated peaceful tribe of who were dark skinned in Estwilde/Southern Nordmaar as well. As for the Lahutians themselves, I'm not completely sure they are human. I think perhaps the greygem took some savage pale monkeys and gave them the strength and cunning of men.

What other ethnicities do you think are there?

Ogres

Blode: I picture these ogres as being very fat and brutish.
Kern: Slender and wiry, almost like trolls in their appearance.
Southern Ergoth: Beastial and muscular, like a panther.

Dwarves

Hill Dwarves: Brown or Black hair and brown eyes, seemingly of clay. The Neidar from the hills around Thorbardin are a clan of Hill Dwarves.

Mountain Dwarves: Much more pale than the Neidar, with a propensity to have blonde (Hylar) or red hair (Daewar).

Dark Dwarves: Albino with blond (Theiwar), grey (Daegar) or white hair (Zhakar). Smaller and more slender than other dwarves, but not enough to change their size category.

cam_banks

Jul 27, 2004 22:33:23

Originally posted by iltharanos
Ferratus, the descriptions you give for the Dragonlance elves seem disturbingly reminiscent of elf descriptions in the Forgotten Realms, which isn't exactly accurate. Your Silvanesti description = Moon elves, Qualinesti = Sun elves, Kagonesti = Green elves.

Alhana Starbreeze is a rarity among her people because she is raven-haired. The overwhelming majority of Silvanesti are lighter than that, including her father Lorac. Her son inherited her coloring, however. The DLCS gives accurate descriptions of the elven races, enough to form a clear picture of their differences.

Cheers,
Cam

talinthas

Jul 27, 2004 22:45:16

don't forget the Khur and the Nordmaarese- i view the former as somewhat turkish, and the latter as south indian.

ferratus

Jul 27, 2004 22:50:47

Originally posted by talinthas
don't forget the Khur and the Nordmaarese- i view the former as somewhat turkish, and the latter as south indian.

Well see, the thing is I don't want any ethnicity to exist in a vacuum, because it sort of shatters my sense of disbeleif. This is exactly the problem with simply copying earth cultures and lumping them together. It doesn't look like the cultures or the people themselves developed naturally.

That's why I lumped the Nordmaarians as an "Northern Contient Ergothian" offshoot, and why I considered the Khur to be largely of Shu and Nerekan descent.

So I chose four ethnicities. 3 are on different sides of the continent, and the fourth ethnicity came from another continent altogether. Then blend, mix and match.

iltharanos

Jul 27, 2004 23:09:34

As for further human ethnicities, the Abanasinians have always struck me as a distinctive population group. Using the above ethnic categories, I'd surmise that they are a mixture of Solamnic and Shu populations, a mixture that arose due to the devastation of the first Cataclysm. Abanasinians as a group would tend to be darker in skin tone then the Solamnics, but not so dark as the Shu. Hair color would range from Brown to Black and eye colors would be relatively dark as well. The Shu (or plainsmen) are described as being quite tall and beautiful, so the Abanasinian mix is likely to share some of these traits. A good example of an Abanasinian beauty would be someone akin to Kitiara uth Matar (yes I'm aware her father was Solamnic).

The Seldjuk people of pre-cataclysm eastern Istar struck me as being South Indian in appearance ... perhaps a mixture of the Landed Ergothians and Nerakese. They were described in fairly good detail in the Kingpriest trilogy of novels. This isn't too far-fetched, as the conclusion of the Barbarian trilogy of novels has a mixed group of Landed Ergothians and the lighter-skinned people native to that area (presumably ancient Nerakese) living in shared communities across what would later become northern Istar.