So to increase the mileage of this diety, I considered entropy as being a natural extension. After all, Morgion already has the Destruction domain right? So that allows you to bring apocolyptic cults. Plus, it already fits
Now those who know me know I have been interested in the creation of an evil goddess of madness to replace the fallen Takhisis. However, since I've begun thinking about the War of the Lance, I figured out that Morgion might be a good candidate for this portfolio. After all, what is madness but a mental disease?
What do you think?
But, I think Morgion can be more of a player in the games then you give him credit for. I'm definately interested in seeing where his influance in Key of Destiny leads.
Originally posted by lugnut71
I had a pretty cool prestige class (well I think so) that I made and posted here a while back. Search for the nightmaster and you might be able to find it.
Yeah, I remember that, it wasn't bad at all.
To the topic at hand; In my campaign I actually have Sirrion as possessing madness in his portfolio, as I figured he attracts the brilliantly artistic ... and genius is on the borderline of madness ... why not? ;) As something of a running joke Sirrion only makes his appearance known on Krynn through his chosen avatar, a chicken. Bakaaaa!
I also have to thank iltharanos he was the only person I think who commented on my prc
I do think there is a lot you can do with followers of Morgion beyond diseasing people. Isn't he also the god of decay? Morgion I like to think is a long time planner. He isn't a front runner of the gods he is behind the scenes. On top of that he is uncaring even for an evil god. I could see him working to slowly break down groups like the Knights (any of the orders) since any of them can improve the quality of life for people under them they represent a threat to him.
Originally posted by Apocalyp$e
Lunitari is the god traditionally assosiated with madness and insanity. One who was born with madness was said to be touched by Luin... hence the name lunatics...
Well...that's how it works in our world (maddness = lunatic = Luna)...but where is that same correlation made with Lunitari? I haven't seen that before.
First of all, you need a lvl 5 Cleric/Druid or lvl 6 Paladin to cast Remove Disease.
Second, the best and brightest of them will be able to cast it only twice a day at best (at that level, that is).
Third, only a paladin will be able to move among infected folks without any fear of catching their disease. Think of how scared YOU would be if someone told you, for instance, "go walk among lepers and cure them".
Do you know how fast a contagious disease spreads?
Do you know how many lvl 5+ Clerics/Druids (or lvl 6+ Paladins) are actually available in a given city? (much less in towns & villages)
Add that:
- druids would probably NOT help contain a plague because they would see it as a "natural" event (unless proven otherwise)
- not all clerics will be interested in spending their time 24/7 curing people left and right
- paladins are usually questing far away from cities & villages
- gods have been "absent" from Krynn often enough lately
No, plagues are a deadly menace. If you need proof, I suggest reading The Legend of Huma from R. A. Knaak. Clerics of Morgion are nothing to laugh at, PrC or no PrC. Even adventurers are at risk, especially if their healer is the first infected
Plus I was speaking of the fact that it was limited in utility just having a god of disease. After you do "oh those poor people have a disease, kill the cleric responsible" and "That agent has been subverted by Morgion because he made a pact on his sickbed" what other adventure hooks are there? The more you expand the portfolio, the more you can use the diety. For example, let's assume that Morgion's portfolio covers poison, disease, madness, entropy and suffering.
Poison - This makes Morgion a diety for all assassins who use poison, whether professionals or scheming dowagers.
Disease - This basically functions by a cleric of Morgion demanding tribute for withholding his divine hand, whether for an individual or a village.
Madness - This allows Morgion to create followers simply by afflicting them. Particularly useful in supporting his entropy model.
Entropy - Those who want to destroy or bring to ruin something. I can see noble revolutionaries who are so rich and decadent that they beleive in wild anarchism.
Suffering - The torturers and sadists.
I remember Lunitari was associated with madmen with the Tales of the Lance. It is a natural extension of her abilities with illusion and her reputation as a trickster figure. However, since we have chosen to stress her role as the patron of magic it doesn't really work to give her additional portfolios. Especially since neither Nuitari and Solinari have dominion over anything except magic.
Sirrion could work as a god of madness too, given he is the neutral god of love and passion. However, I think Morgion is a better fit because mental illness isn't a desirable condition and people suffer from it.
In the Elven Nation's Trilogy, the Grand General of the Ergothian's Army, Giarna, later revealed that he was a devotee to MOrgion. He say's that he had recieved the same gifts that the "NightBringer" (head of the Cultists of Morgion gift) where...well, he was not actually invulnerable, but was certainly near immune to decay or bodily harm. And it was General Giarna that ensured that the KinSlayer War continued on and on and on, ensuring that countless souls would die in battle for over 40 years, and remained young the entire time.
Originally posted by ferratus
Plagues are still a menace, but not if a party has a 5th or 6th level cleric.
Have said cleric be the first to "catch" cackle fever and we'll see if his companions are still comfy about dealing with diseases...
That said, DmJoeSolarte is correct. I always considered Morgion as a deity with power over all states of life in-between perfect health and death's door. General Giarna is a perfect example of the kind of bargain you can strike with Morgion in exchange for enough souls or suffering.
Plus, he should have power over animals associated with spreading diseases (rats, mosquitoes, etc...). You would be surprised at how effective an infected rat guided by a human-level intelligence can be when its only purpose is to infect others, even indirectly.
Check out Goblin Fever in Dungeon issue #46 for a good scenario based on a plague.
I think it is more likely, that Morgion approached Giarna as the war was approaching, and offered him the power to avoid the decay of his own body, in exchange that he would draw out the KinSlayer War as long as he could. The fact that there were some limits to it (he had to slaughter ritually any 'race' in order to be immune to it). FOr example, at first, he was immune to what Humans, elfs, and dwarves could do to him (ie, they could not harm him). And later in the war, he was able to have a griffon captured and devoured it's essence in order to gain "immunity vs Griffons". BUt at the very end, it was a Hill Giant that Kith Kanan and Sithel had befriended that killed Giarna and Giarna realized in the last moment when he realized he was fighting a Hill Giant that he had no protection against it.
But the bottom line being, that Morgion wanted death and decay and slaughter in teh world, and the KinSlayer war's were the key. By granting Giarna that gift, it did incalculable damage to the realm. Whether Morgion actually cared whom won the war was probably tantamount as he just wanted a high death toll.
I think Chemosh in the DLCS is supposed to represent the force of death itself, and the life beyond it. If Morgion keeps not only disease and poison away, but all forms of other decay (and thus death) then Chemosh cannot rightly call himself the lord of murder. I myself wouldn't mind, because I think Morgion makes a better patron of assassins, but it has been already establshed otherwise.
Originally posted by ferratus
Well, if we include General Garna as a model for a worshipper of Morgion, we are still expanding Morgion's portfolio from specifically disease and decay to cover "violent death". This kind of steps on Chemosh's toes as the DLCS gives him the portfolio of murder.
I think Chemosh in the DLCS is supposed to represent the force of death itself, and the life beyond it. If Morgion keeps not only disease and poison away, but all forms of other decay (and thus death) then Chemosh cannot rightly call himself the lord of murder. I myself wouldn't mind, because I think Morgion makes a better patron of assassins, but it has been already establshed otherwise.
I can offer many different takes on that.
For one, the "deal" with Giarna and Morgion applied only to Giarna. No one else gained that immunity and it was not actually "immortality". Giarna was well aware of certain aspects that would end his life (ie, death at the hands of anything he had not absorbed the essences of) and that the deal had to do with him keeping the war going on, which would result in many, many, many more being killed. A high death toll would be something that Chemosh would like.
In my campaigns, the KinSlayer War's were something conceived by Morgion, Chemosh, and Hidukkel. The idea being to weaken Ergoth and Silvanesti and Thorbardin to the point that they would be unable (or unwilling) to participate in the 3rd Dragon war. Also, I have used it as essentially Morgion "planting the seeds" of a massive army of the undead to threaten Tarsis and Southern Ansalon with (using the skeletal remains of the thousands upon thousands that died during the war).
Originally posted by ferratus
Well, if we include General Garna as a model for a worshipper of Morgion, we are still expanding Morgion's portfolio from specifically disease and decay to cover "violent death". This kind of steps on Chemosh's toes as the DLCS gives him the portfolio of murder.
I think Chemosh in the DLCS is supposed to represent the force of death itself, and the life beyond it. If Morgion keeps not only disease and poison away, but all forms of other decay (and thus death) then Chemosh cannot rightly call himself the lord of murder. I myself wouldn't mind, because I think Morgion makes a better patron of assassins, but it has been already establshed otherwise.
Originally posted by Apocalyp$e
I read it somewhere.... I really wish I could tell you where but I look at my overflowing cabinet and shrug my shoulders... I can give you my word on it though....
LOL! I feel your pain. Sometimes I wish I could borrow Uziel's photographic brain...it'd be helpful.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Well...that's how it works in our world (maddness = lunatic = Luna)...but where is that same correlation made with Lunitari? I haven't seen that before.
"Into the Heart of the Story", Kender, Gully Dwarves, and Gnomes, Tales Vol. 2. See the notes on the stanza describing Riverwind.
The accursed, overwrought, and much-scorned Appendix :-) gave Zivilyn madness, which he and his followers consider one of many paths to inner wisdom; I wanted to point out that the Neutrals are not all sweetness and light.
Matthew L. Martin
Originally posted by Matthew L. Martin
I wanted to point out that the Neutrals are not all sweetness and light.
Who's saying they are? I'll have a word with 'em about that...
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Who's saying they are? I'll have a word with 'em about that...
Cheers,
Cam
Maybe an exaggeration, but in the 'core material', there hasn't been much on the 'less friendly' side of Neutrality. But then, the major examples of the Neutral Powers we've seen have been Astinus and Dougan Redhammer.
Matthew L. Martin
Originally posted by Matthew L. Martin
Maybe an exaggeration, but in the 'core material', there hasn't been much on the 'less friendly' side of Neutrality. But then, the major examples of the Neutral Powers we've seen have been Astinus and Dougan Redhammer.
Ah, I see. Well, I tend to see those DLCS writeups as being as absent of friendly as they are of not friendly. This is the pantheon of Neutrality after all - at the core of their dogma whether one is good or evil, nice or not nice is irrelevant.
Dougan's an interesting case study of how a manifestation of a deity doesn't exactly represent the deity as a whole, too, and the jury is absolutely out on Astinus.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Matthew L. Martin
"Into the Heart of the Story", Kender, Gully Dwarves, and Gnomes, Tales Vol. 2. See the notes on the stanza describing Riverwind.
Thanks for that!
Originally posted by Matthew L. Martin
The accursed, overwrought, and much-scorned Appendix :-)
For the record, while I may not agree with everything in the Appendix (Neutral brown dragons and High God = good) I do like most of it. And I have certainly never scorned it.