Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sitara Sep 05, 2004 21:37:37	Just wondering, how many people prefer cam bank's version of the wizard of high sorcery to the one in the dlcs? What about banks himself, if he's reading this...do you use your own version or the one in the dlcs? Which do you prefer?
#2 Dragonhelm Sep 05, 2004 22:18:42	You know, Cam's version inspired the DLCS version. ;) For those looking for a link, here you go. Cam's WoHS
#3 kalanth Sep 05, 2004 22:44:20	A bit of a tough one, but I think I will use the one in ToHS just because the entire book is dedicated to Krynish magic. However, I know that I have truly come to respect and anticipate Cam Banks material. I have yet to be dissapointed with anything that I have seen with Cam's name on it.
#4 cam_banks Sep 05, 2004 23:40:15	I fully endorse and support the version in Towers of High Sorcery. Cheers, Cam
#5 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2004 0:09:19	I like the ToHS with a minor modification. I changed/modified the schools of specialization. It goes a little something like this: White: Abjuration, Divination, Illusion, Transmutation Red: Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Transmutation Black: Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Necromancy There's a little overlapping which is intentional. I feel it allows for cutomization of the character. Each robe has a school all it's own, two that overlap with the red robes, and then they all have divination. I gave them all Divination because it states that that is one that cannot be chosen as a barred school for anyone anyway. I thought only being able to choose between 2 schools of specialization based on your robes was rather stringent.
#6 true_blue Sep 06, 2004 12:52:28	I have two wizards in my campaign, actually a wizard and a monk/wizard. But they actually both specialized, and both chose Evocation, but with different prohibited schools. I let any specialist be any robe they want, but if they had wanted the Arcane Focus they would have to be in their favored schools. But then again, I never expect anyone to take Arcane Focus. I personally believe that power is horrible. Getting rid of a third school for a +1 Caster Level to me is almost like shooting yourself in the foot. I hate giving up two schools in the first place, but I can usually do that and still have a diverse character somewhat. But three... man that hurts. Since I'm the DM, a lot of wizards I've made up have used Arcane Focus because i wanted to try it out. I'm not impressed. Whats actually funny, is look through the Age of Mortals at Dalamar, and then also look through the Towers of High Sorcery book at the people who are stated in it, and I think there's only like one person who has Arcane Focus. Raistlin, Dalamar, Jenna, Fistandilus, Magius, The Master of the Tower (although I guess I understand this one heh), Vincil Da jevra, and Leciane Do Cirica all don't have Arcane Focus. But, the spectre Rannoch has it though heh. I think this personally points out that its really not that neat. Each robe should have gotten a bonus to their favored school or schools, maybe not necessarily a +1 Caster Level, but something instead of having to give up another school. The Knights of the Thorn get the divination specialist for free, even though I know divination isn't great, but its still a free spell every level. With the Arcane Focus, it almost looked like the WoHS were trying to be designed like the Red Wizards of Thay, yet they don't get the cool little bonuses that the Red Wizards of Thay get.
#7 clarkvalentine Sep 06, 2004 13:17:23	What about banks himself, if he's reading this...do you use your own version or the one in the dlcs? Which do you prefer? As the player of the wizard (actually a Diviner 5/White Robe 2/ Master 2) in Cam's ongoing Dragonlance campaign, I can say that he uses the ToHS version.
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2004 13:22:16	. Whats actually funny, is look through the Age of Mortals at Dalamar, and then also look through the Towers of High Sorcery book at the people who are stated in it, and I think there's only like one person who has Arcane Focus. Raistlin, Dalamar, Jenna, Fistandilus, Magius, The Master of the Tower (although I guess I understand this one heh), Vincil Da jevra, and Leciane Do Cirica all don't have Arcane Focus. But, the spectre Rannoch has it though heh. I don't know of the others....but that doesnt count for Raistin as far as TOHS goes...he isnt even a WoHS yet there, so he wouldnt have had the oppurtunity to take it yet.
#9 true_blue Sep 06, 2004 13:28:48	Well, according to the WoHS prestige class in the Towers of High Sorcery book, if you aren't a specialist and you take this prestige class (Raistlin is shown as a 1st level wizard in the book, which means he isn't a specialist) you can as an option become a specialist, but only if you are already a specialist can you take the option of Arcane Focus. So that rules him out. But even if this wasn't true and he could choose to become a specialist and take arcane focus, I would almost bet any amount of money that he won't be a specialist. I'm sure someone who has the War of the Lance campaign book can tell us what he is. I personally don't think there's any way that Raistlin has three prohibited schools. Who knows I could be wrong, but I doubt it heh.
#10 wolffenjugend_dup Sep 06, 2004 14:03:44	I thought he was a generalist, like Dalamar. Although he did cast a lot of evocation spells...
#11 sitara Sep 06, 2004 16:44:53	Thanks for the reply's. But ok, now another shocker; the high wizard class is revised AGAIN in tohs? Great. What changes did they make from the dlcs? Please tell me they were very minor (like the warmage change)?
#12 true_blue Sep 06, 2004 16:58:55	The prestige class is pretty much the same, they just changed enhanced specialization to Arcane Focus. And they put the stipulation that if you are a generalist wizard, when yout ake the WoHS class you can change to a specialist. If you are already a specialist, you can choose to take the Arcane Focus. Also, it doesn't say you have to be a specialist under the Requirements. Also instead of having to have any 2 item creation or metamagic.. it says you have to have Scribe Scroll and any other item creation or metamagic. They were just small writing changes, no real changes. I'm really looking forward to the War of the Lance sourcebook because I'm interested how many of the NPC's in there will have Arcane Focus. I doubt very many will, but if they are going to have Arcane Focus as part of the WoHS prestige class, I'd like to see wizards actually take it. Not counting the War of the Lance sourcebook, there have been 9 wizards stated out..and only 1 has Arcane Focus. This has been my biggest gripe with the prestige class because as I said before, I think its a horrible power. But some people may like it. The only other thing I'd like to see is more Secrets for the three robes. I'm not content with the ones they give, I personally only think 1 or 2 are actually good for each robe.
#13 true_blue Sep 07, 2004 18:25:44	Well I was browsing the Dragonlance.com messageboards and they were talking about Arakias. He starts out as a regular wizard also. So that means out of the 10 wizards I've seen statted out, there still is only one who uses Arcane Focus. Was wondering if anyone who has the War of the Lance sourcebook could say whether any of the wizards statted out in the book use Arcane Focus and if so, what their specialist school is. I'm interested because if the WoHS prestige class is going to have this power, I'd actually like to see NPC's have it, even if I never really see any of my PC's take it.
#14 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2004 19:09:17	From the WotL it looks like Raist is generalist, with an affinity towards enchantment. I'm assuming that he doesn't have the (Red Robe) moniker after his level of Wizards of High Sorcery due the fact that just about everyone and his uncle knows that he was a Red Robe at that time.
#15 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2004 19:22:07	His version of the WoHS is now the official one though isnt it? It replaces the one found in the DLCS?
#16 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2004 19:30:52	His version of the WoHS is now the official one though isnt it? It replaces the one found in the DLCS? No. The version out of ToHS replaces the one in the DLCS. Cam's version grants WoHS a domain and they must become a specialist of their chosen order. As it was stated above, Cam's version was the progenitor of the WoHS PrC found in both the DLCS and ToHS.
#17 true_blue Sep 07, 2004 23:19:02	Well I forgot when I mentioned Arakias that he didnt have any levels in the WoHS so he doesn't count for not having Arcane Focus. The only other wizard I know of in the War of the Lance sourcebook is Feal-thas or whatever and I doubt he's a WoHS if Arakias wasn't. So were there any other WoHS statted out in the book? And if so, did any of them have Arcane Focus? Just interested if anyone actually has it.
#18 Dragonhelm Sep 07, 2004 23:29:08	Feal-thas is a renegade. Ariakas did pass the Test, but has not taken levels of the WoHS prestige class.
#19 iltharanos Sep 08, 2004 5:15:40	Feal-thas is a renegade. Ariakas did pass the Test, but has not taken levels of the WoHS prestige class. Wow. A renegade. A dark elf. Stuck in the frozen armpit of Ansalon. And he's got a beard. I don't envy Feal-Thas. ;)
#20 zombiegleemax Sep 08, 2004 10:32:59	One thing that I did not see mentioned dealing with the Robes and if they are specialists had to do if upon taking the Test they wear the robes of another color other than the one that the specialized in. What to do then?
#21 cam_banks Sep 08, 2004 10:40:26	One thing that I did not see mentioned dealing with the Robes and if they are specialists had to do if upon taking the Test they wear the robes of another color other than the one that the specialized in. What to do then? Do you mean, what happens if they're necromancers and end up in the Order of the Red Robes, or illusionists and end up in the Order of the White Robes? They may switch specializations if they wish, to one that's more appropriate to their Order, or become generalists. They shouldn't remain as specialists if their specialist school is one of the ones opposed by the Order. I should point out that I have no problem with a non-specialized wizard passing the Test, taking their first level of WoHS, and not only picking up a specialization in one of their Order's two favored schools, but getting an arcane focus in that school. There's nothing at all unbalancing about that - it's a sacrifice of 2 or 3 schools for an immediate bonus. Cheers, Cam
#22 true_blue Sep 08, 2004 11:25:36	I wouldn't mind letting people switch their specialization after they take the test. Like Cam said, its really not unbalancing so its not really a big deal. I let people specialize in any school they want and still pick any Robe they want also though. I like to think that each Robe has specialists from each school somewhere and that its not a big deal. I'm thinking I would only let people take Arcane Focus if they were a specialist from the "preferred" schools of the Robe they joined though. Although I'm still thinking of how to make Arcane Focus better so that I actually see people wanting to take it. I personally believe it only doesnt hurt a Diviner, since they only lost one school in the first place, but a +1 to Caster Level I don't see as much of a big deal for a Diviner, so I dunno. As I have pointed out earlier, you don't really see any WoHS even take Arcane Focus. I understand that there have only been around 10-15 wizards statted out, but they are more of the famous ones and "powerful" if you will. It just bugs me that you don't even see NPC wizards take this power. I dunno 3 schools is too much in my opinion. I hate giving up 2.. and I don't think I could bring myself to do a 3rd if I was a PC. As I said before, I give some of my wizards when I DM the Arcane Focus because I wanted to test it out and also, I feel that if the power is there someone has to take it. I wonder if Arcane Focus could be switched that when a wizard takes the WoHS class, they can choose to give up one school and gain the +1 caster level to one of their favored schools. This way, a generalist could lose one school, for a +1 CL. I specialist could lose that 3rd school if they really wanted to, to get the +1. I still don't think too many specialists would take it, but maybe generalists would have one school that they don't care too much about or barely use any spells from. Just a thought.
#23 theredrobedwizard Sep 08, 2004 11:52:08	If I ever got to actually play DL instead of DMing all the time, I'd take Arcane Focus. More power for the Necromancy... err... I mean, Illusions... yes... that's it... Illusions... -TRRW
#24 cam_banks Sep 08, 2004 12:43:20	I have no problem at all with losing two or three schools of magic. Wizards have a much easier time of it than sorcerers, even with limited schools, so spell selection should never present a problem. Many of the more famous mages of the setting aren't specialists at all, which may seem odd to you but it's not really as bizarre as all that. Often, it's because these mages are not focused on only one aspect of their Order, but on the broader application of magic. Par-Salian and Jenna are good examples of generalist wizards. Other times, the archmages get to where they are because of their focus in one school, which is the case with Dunbar, Lorac, Justarius and Vincil. Hopefully, you'll get to see more of these wizards' statistics published somewhere. Cheers, Cam
#25 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2004 19:25:29	If I ever got to actually play DL instead of DMing all the time, I'd take Arcane Focus. More power for the Necromancy... err... I mean, Illusions... yes... that's it... Illusions... -TRRW Necromancy is one of the best schools and specializations to take, hands down. Sure, at first you have very few potent spells, but after you get your 4th and 5th level spells it's all over. I love playing necromancers. My Wizard, Koranith, was an elven char from FR that is a necromancer. Topped off at 17th level before the group fell apart. Not only do you get the nasty spells, but there's the fear and mystique that goes along with being a necromancer. It's intoxicating.
#26 sitara Sep 10, 2004 0:09:40	I have no problem at all with losing two or three schools of magic. Wizards have a much easier time of it than sorcerers, even with limited schools, so spell selection should never present a problem. Many of the more famous mages of the setting aren't specialists at all, which may seem odd to you but it's not really as bizarre as all that. Often, it's because these mages are not focused on only one aspect of their Order, but on the broader application of magic. Par-Salian and Jenna are good examples of generalist wizards. Other times, the archmages get to where they are because of their focus in one school, which is the case with Dunbar, Lorac, Justarius and Vincil. Hopefully, you'll get to see more of these wizards' statistics published somewhere. Cheers, Cam Par-Salian and Jenna were genralists? They were both white and red's respectively, how would that make them generalists? Also in the process of picking up the wizo HS prc, they would have to get enhanced specialization and thus loose a school of magik, if I am not mistaken.
#27 cam_banks Sep 10, 2004 5:42:20	Par-Salian and Jenna were genralists? They were both white and red's respectively, how would that make them generalists? Also in the process of picking up the wizo HS prc, they would have to get enhanced specialization and thus loose a school of magik, if I am not mistaken. Towers of High Sorcery takes its lead from Age of Mortals and revises both the entry requirements for the WoHS prestige class and the effects of enhanced specialization (now known as Arcane Focus). Cheers, Cam
#28 sitara Sep 12, 2004 16:59:49	I see. I don't suppose someone could tell me what Arcane Focus does? While I will buy Towers sometime in the future, it irks me a little but to have constant revisions to classes that are in books I already purchased and paid money for. (The chenged entry requirements I know, have just been reclarified (scribe scroll + one more metamgik/item gen feat).
#29 cam_banks Sep 12, 2004 17:13:01	I see. I don't suppose someone could tell me what Arcane Focus does? It's just Enhanced Specialization renamed and revised to include being able to choose to either stay a generalist, become a specialist, or increase a specialization by eliminating an extra school to gain a +1 caster level. Cheers, Cam
#30 daedavias_dup Sep 12, 2004 23:14:02	Am I the only one that fails to see the merit in being a specialist at first level anymore? Seriously, now with the option of becoming a specialist when you take your first level of Wizard of High Sorcery, yet still keeping your spells from your banned school present in your spellbook, there really is no reason to be a specialist at first level, especially if you are a Red or Black robe. It is the only way a arcane focused, specialist Black or Red robe can have Dispel Magic in their spellbook.
#31 true_blue Sep 12, 2004 23:20:06	See I personally still don't let people who eventually specialize to use the old spells. I really don't understand why they would still be able to use it. I guess because they have already studied it, but still.. if you can't use Illusion spells.. you can't use Illusion spells. That means even if you have figured them out before, there's just something innate that prevents you. I'm sure no one else does it like this, but thats how I do it.
#32 sitara Sep 13, 2004 19:49:04	Well yes, however, keep in mind that if you start off at level one, and your gaming group levels up around once a month or so, then the benefits of a specialist can be quite useful even prior to becoming wizohs. Also, there is a side bar in age of mortals that includes another modified ruling; that generalists can become wizards of high sorcery. Its just before the Dalamar and Palin's stats. Dalamar, apprently, did not specialize.