So, since, the WotL book is apparently out, or at least people have copies of it, I'd like to know a few things about it. For instance, what are the levels of the Companions? What's this new class, and what's it like? What prestige classes are in it? How do they handle non-spellcasting Knights of Solamian, Rangers, and Paladins? What abtou the staple villains, like Vermniaard, Kitiara, etc. If somebody can answer these questions, that'd be great, but I don't want anybody to violate any copyright laws.
The Companions are all 6th level, representing their experience following Xak Tsaroth but before Pax Tharkas. The new class, the master, was built around foci which correlate to the four D&D 3.5 multi-skills of Craft, Knowledge, Perform and Profession. The book has prestige classes for dragon highlords, handlers, gnomish tinkers, minotaur marauders, and the chorister (a bard-like cleric PrC). Non-spellcasting characters are dealt with mainly through sidebars describing any rules changes. And the "staple villains" are all in the book.
Cheers,
Cam
Well, yeah, I knew quite a bit of that, but I want some specifics here.
Then yeah, you're getting into the copyright issues you referred to.
Cheers,
Cam
And if you want any more information, you'll have to pick up the book.
Cheers,
Cam
Flint is a master? What is that? Is it a new PrC?
The master is a new core class in the War of the Lance book, something like a playable PC expert, that takes Craft, Knowledge, Perform or Profession as a primary focus and picks up special abilities relating to that focus as he advances. Flint is a master craftsman, as is Theros Ironfeld, while Bertrem the Aesthetic is a master sage and Otik Sandath is a master professional. Since it's a core class, not a prestige class, you can play one from 1st through to 20th level, like any other class.
Cheers,
Cam
Damn, I really want that book. DO you think it is worth purchasing it early from weis.com?
This is a trick question, right? Yes, I do think it's worth purchasing early from www.margaretweis.com
You even get it signed!Cheers,
Cam
Another question about the product. Are the stats for Par-Salian, Justarius, Ladonna, etc, included in the section on wizards?
Are there still plenty available and about how long does it take to get one?
Another question about the product. Are the stats for Par-Salian, Justarius, Ladonna, etc, included in the section on wizards?
I think there are plenty available, or will be soon if they're not. And no, those characters don't appear in the War of the Lance book. It's possible (though this is just a random idea) that they might appear as part of a web enhancement for Towers of High Sorcery, where they're more appropriate.
Cheers,
Cam
I think there are plenty available, or will be soon if they're not. And no, those characters don't appear in the War of the Lance book. It's possible (though this is just a random idea) that they might appear as part of a web enhancement for Towers of High Sorcery, where they're more appropriate.
Cheers,
Cam
I wish that they would have included them in there. Maybe in the Legends sourcebook that is supposed to be released sometime in 05?
Isnt the $55 or so dollars kind of steep? Why is the postage so much? Is it a rush order or something?
Part of that figure is due to the books being signed by Margeret Weis (I think).
But is the book actually signed by Margaret. Nothing on the website indicates it will be...
It's signed. Had it been gotten at GenCon though it would have been signed by everyone, like the one I have.
Oh well, there's always next year.
-TRRW
Tanis is a half-elf fighter 6, Caramon is a human fighter 6, Tas is a kender rogue 5/handler 1, Goldmoon is a human cleric 6 of Mishakal, Riverwind is a human barbarian 3/ranger 3, Sturm is a human fighter 6, Flint is a Neidar fighter 4/master 2, Gilthanas is a Qualinesti noble 2/wizard 3/fighter 1, Laurana is a Qualinesti noble 6, Tika is a human rogue 3/fighter 3, and Raistlin is a wizard 5/wizard of High Sorcery (Red Robe) 1.
And if you want any more information, you'll have to pick up the book.
Cheers,
Cam
Tanis is a fighter? I had always thought of him as a ranger. He seems more like a ranger with all the forest wanderings and whatnot.
Tanis is a fighter? I had always thought of him as a ranger. He seems more like a ranger with all the forest wanderings and whatnot.
Right, but he doesn't have an animal companion, cast spells, make nice with wild creatures, etc. He's a fighter with archery skills and some wilderness training, which is inevitable given that he was raised by elves. Later in the Chronicles he operates much less like a ranger, especially in Dragons of Spring Dawning where he spends much of his time armored.
Riverwind is the real ranger of the group, and has been since he was first outlined as a character in 1st edition. Some consideration was given to making Tanis a ranger, but ultimately it was decided that using a bow and wearing leather armor doesn't make you one.
Cheers,
Cam
Riverwind as a barbarian? I have never thought of him as such. He is and always be a ranger in my mind.
He's both now, though. Everyone is happy!
But is the book actually signed by Margaret. Nothing on the website indicates it will be...
This is a trick question, right? Yes, I do think it's worth purchasing early from www.margaretweis.com You even get it signed!
Cheers,
Cam
~~~
LOI you might be careful about posting posts that are just quotes from other posts. You know how people can get on here.
Hell, I ran a tournament RPG at DragonCon and both Weis and Hickman were here with the new books and I missed them and getting autographs! Ugh, met them years ago at a previous DragonCon and even played a DL game with them. Definitely want WoTL book as its my favorite timeline and stories.
Does Tanis from Legends period have Crown Knight levels? I know the rank was "honorary", but since Ariakas has some Thorn Knight levels...
Ariakas has levels of Thorn Knight because he's the prototype for the Gray Robes, and benefits from the same abilities as they do. Tanis isn't really the prototype for anything, and being an honorary knight of the Crown is more likely to indicate that he's picked up a level or two of legendary tactician after the War of the Lance.
Cheers,
Cam
He'd have some levels in Master Ambassador, too I assume? (seeing as how that's what he basically does post-WotL)
Definitely. He and Laurana both picked up their levels in master ambassador as a result of having to negotiate between the elves and humans and the other free peoples of Ansalon following the defeat of the dragonarmies.
Cheers,
Cam
So Ariakas in the War of the Lance book has levels in Thorn Knight?
Nope. We've just been saying this to confuse you, Amaron.
Yes, he does. I'm not sure why you're asking unless when I said "Ariakas has levels of Thorn Knight because he's the prototype for the Gray Robes, and benefits from the same abilities as they do" you interpreted that in some other way than what was intended.
Cheers,
Cam
I have been told by my local game store that "the new Dragonlance product"- presumably War of the Lance- will be available in late October.
There may be delays based on shipping times and distribution, but it should be early October, not late October.
Cheers,
Cam
Tanis is a half-elf fighter 6, Caramon is a human fighter 6, Tas is a kender rogue 5/handler 1, Goldmoon is a human cleric 6 of Mishakal, Riverwind is a human barbarian 3/ranger 3, Sturm is a human fighter 6, Flint is a Neidar fighter 4/master 2, Gilthanas is a Qualinesti noble 2/wizard 3/fighter 1, Laurana is a Qualinesti noble 6, Tika is a human rogue 3/fighter 3, and Raistlin is a wizard 5/wizard of High Sorcery (Red Robe) 1.
I don't know - I would have make three different level rankings to companions: Beginners, maybe 2-3 levels (Tika, Laurana, Tas), Average adventures 6 levels (Caramon, Raistlin, Gilthanas, Goldmoon, Rivenwind, Sturm), and more "older" travellers 7-8 levels (Tanis and Flint).
Maybe couple levels ranger for Tanis. I dont have Age of Mortals book in hand, but one level of War Mage for Raistlin. Because I don't have the book I dont know could he had taken it in 5 levels and after that have needed abilities to advance as Wizards of High Sorcery.
But liked Gilthanas levels and also idea of Master class (because without this Flint should have been "just" Expert).
I don't know - I would have make three different level rankings to companions: Beginners, maybe 2-3 levels (Tika, Laurana, Tas), Average adventures 6 levels (Caramon, Raistlin, Gilthanas, Goldmoon, Rivenwind, Sturm), and more "older" travellers 7-8 levels (Tanis and Flint).
Maybe couple levels ranger for Tanis. I dont have Age of Mortals book in hand, but one level of War Mage for Raistlin. Because I don't have the book I dont know could he had taken it in 5 levels and after that have needed abilities to advance as Wizards of High Sorcery.
But liked Gilthanas levels and also idea of Master class (because without this Flint should have been "just" Expert).
I have to go with you on this. I don't think that people like Tika and Laurana should have six "PC" levels. I'm thinking perhaps if you want them to be all the same level you'll need to add some "NPC" levels to them.
Tika is a perfect example of this. First off where do the rogue leves come in??? I've never seen her even remotely roguish. The 3 levels of fighter are a bit of a stretch for her after Xas Tharoth (sp) st best. I'd sya she'd be more like Commoner 3/Fighter 2 or 3. I just don't see the rogue levels factoring in anywhere. I give her Fighter levels and not Warrior because she was recieving training from Caramon and Sturm ever since they left The Inn of the Last Home.
Laurana could possibly be a Noble 6 but I think it's much more likely that she's Noble 3/Warrior 1 or 2. I chose Warrior over Fighter because most elven women are given rudimentary training in combat, as DoAT says. In the book she's written as knowing how to use her sword, just not very well. Later on in DoWN and DoSD I see her transfering/swapping those levels of Warrior for Fighter as well as picking up a few more levels of Noble and Legendary Tactiacian.
That's just my take on it. It would be nice in the Legends book to have a stat listing for all the Companions listed at low, mid, high, and career ending levels, like they do for Star Wars and a few other systems. That way we can see how they progressed over time rather than just having thier post Xas Tharoth stats and then their eventual/final stats.
Tika is a perfect example of this. First off where do the rogue leves come in??? I've never seen her even remotely roguish.
Wasn't Tika raised by a thief or con artist? I think thats why they gave her a few rogue levels.
Tika's got levels in rogue because she was a thief when she was younger, and those skills continued to come in handy even after Otik took her in. Laurana's noble levels and the fact that she's an elf cover all the martial weapons training bases, and unlike her brother Gilthanas she never actually underwent dangerous missions or fought battles until she joined the Companions.
Raistlin certainly doesn't qualify as a war mage, despite his experience in a mercenary company in Brothers in Arms. He didn't follow up on that career once he returned to the Inn of the Last Home - he's a good example of a character who may have gone that route had things turned out a little differently.
Cheers,
Cam
The Heroes of the Lance are all the same levels as each other intentionally. They're a typical D&D party, albeit a little larger than the standard. All of them have had the experience and demonstrated well enough the skills that are given to them with those writeups, which is why they were assigned those levels in the first place. None of them has NPC levels because none of them is an NPC - they're heroes, not minor characters.
Tika's got levels in rogue because she was a thief when she was younger, and those skills continued to come in handy even after Otik took her in. Laurana's noble levels and the fact that she's an elf cover all the martial weapons training bases, and unlike her brother Gilthanas she never actually underwent dangerous missions or fought battles until she joined the Companions.
Raistlin certainly doesn't qualify as a war mage, despite his experience in a mercenary company in Brothers in Arms. He didn't follow up on that career once he returned to the Inn of the Last Home - he's a good example of a character who may have gone that route had things turned out a little differently.
Cheers,
Cam
I dunno...I always saw Tika as a minor/background player. She was just sort of there and pitched in, much like Elistan, rather than having a commanding presence or role in the group such as; Tanis, Tas, Caramon, Raistlin, Sturm, and Flint. Laurana was sort of the same way until DoWN when the party was split and she took de facto leadership of her group.
I have to take issue, at least disagree, that just because they are a party means they have to all be the same level. True most, if not all, parties start out that way, hardly ever does that last. New characters are added some die or leave.
Example...I have a party at 5th level right now. They are picking up a replacement fighter for the group in a small town. Most likely their not going to encounter someone at their level in a small town that does not already have an employer. I'll look at the new player's history and if it warrants I'll generally allow them to come in a level or two below the parties average level. Poor histories and backgrounds come in worse. That's neither here nor there though. The point is just because Laurana in joning the party doesn't necessitate that she be the same level as the party, her history doesn't justify it.
I dunno...I always saw Tika as a minor/background player. She was just sort of there and pitched in, much like Elistan, rather than having a commanding presence or role in the group such as; Tanis, Tas, Caramon, Raistlin, Sturm, and Flint. Laurana was sort of the same way until DoWN when the party was split and she took de facto leadership of her group.
I have to take issue, at least disagree, that just because they are a party means they have to all be the same level. True most, if not all, parties start out that way, hardly ever does that last. New characters are added some die or leave.
Example...I have a party at 5th level right now. They are picking up a replacement fighter for the group in a small town. Most likely their not going to encounter someone at their level in a small town that does not already have an employer. I'll look at the new player's history and if it warrants I'll generally allow them to come in a level or two below the parties average level. Poor histories and backgrounds come in worse. That's neither here nor there though. The point is just because Laurana in joning the party doesn't necessitate that she be the same level as the party, her history doesn't justify it.
Don't forget that in addition to being a 'novel series' Dragonlance is also a D&D gaming world and in fact was one before it was a novel series wherein players actually 'played' the Companions through their journies. The Companions were all meant to represent archetypal character roles in the original modules that anybody could pick up and play and it seems like this hsa been carried over here. (Ie if someone wanted to run The War of the Lance, they can now do so without having to worry about someone playing Lauranna at 1st level while everyone else is at 6th, 7th or 8th level.) In that context, all of the levels make perfect sense. Dragonlance has a history and a thinking process behind it.
It's not always about the 'novels'. The novels only give you snippets of a characters life during the main storyline. The RPG takes it beyond that point to give the players more to work with. Also 6th level, while 'mildly experienced' (and true they had seen a lot within the context of that particular story) Is not so incredibly out there and powerful that it's out of the question someone like Laurana might be the equiv in a non combat focused class. Heroic characters are not always going to be held by the same standards as NPC characters cause they are the heroes - otherwise Laurana and Tika and Flint would all have Aristocrat, Commoner and Expert levels.
Well said. Sometimes I think that we might forget that before the novels were ever written people were playing this game. Does anyone know whose character the Heros of the Lance were? Whose character is Raistlin, Tanis, etc.
There was a single test game of the first module (DL1 Dragons of Despair) run by Tracy, with folks from TSR playing some of the characters. Terry Phillips was Raistlin, Harold Johnson was Tas, I think... the list was given at one point. Annotated Chronicles mentions some of the folks. But it wasn't a campaign, and the modules weren't all run through with Tracy as a DM or anything. This is something of a popular myth that's stuck, but it's not true.
Cheers,
Cam
And don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the above poster or his style of campaigning. You can do what you want and make adjustments anyway you see fit. But the DMG and the Monster Manual and the entire game system is built around the 'concept' of parties operating generally on the same level and that is what the Companions were. They were a party. They did tons and tons of things that the novels don't even cover. or that are only mentioned in passing. The concept of CRs, treasure rewards, encounter levels and more are taken into account in the development of a party which assumes folk within the same level of one another. I guess in the end I'm saying I"m by no means surprised that the characters were reasoned to being within the same level. As they're not even 'mid level yet' by D&D standards.. it works for me.
I guess in the end I'm saying I"m by no means surprised that the characters were reasoned to being within the same level. As they're not even 'mid level yet' by D&D standards.. it works for me.
Exactly. And, while this may sound odd to some people, all of the player characters in my campaigns are the same level. I make sure that this is the case, now, since it's just so much harder to give equal face time to somebody when their PC is 2 or more levels lower than the others, or avoid the "we'll just stand here and watch while Joe Fighter kills everything" mentality.
Cheers,
Cam
Raistlin - 3rd level mage
Tanis, Sturm, Caramon, Flint - 4th level fighter
Goldmoon - 5th level cleric
Riverwind - 4th level ranger
Tika - dual-classed 3rd level thief/ 2nd level fighter, with a weapon proficiency in iron skillet
Laurana - 3rd level fighter
Gilthanas - 3rd level fighter/ 2nd level wizard
Were I believe their respective stats back then, so I do not see how it is odd for them to be transferred into all being 6th level after Xak Tsaroth in 3e.
Does Tika have weapon specilization/focus frying pan?
:D
I doubt it, though, once she transitions to fighter in the novels she moves on from skillet smacking to shield bashing, remember?
Did they ever resolve Ariakas as a 20th level Cleric/mercenary vs. powerful Black Robes wizard?
Yes, he's a:
Ariakas: Human Wizard 5/Fighter 2/Knight of the Thorn 10/Legendary Tactician 3/ Dragon Highlord 3
He's got levels in Thorn Knight to reflect that he is the prototype for that class. It's an elegant way of resolving the priest/wizard quandary, since as a Thorn Knight he is a wizard but he also receives power from Takhisis like a cleric ... so he's a little of both.
Did they ever resolve Ariakas as a 20th level Cleric/mercenary vs. powerful Black Robes wizard?
Oh, yes, and quite cleverly I might add!
In both cases, Ariakas has fighter levels. The confusion on whether he was a cleric or wizard is based on how he gains his magic.
Ariakas is a predecessor to the Knights of the Thorn. He is a wizard who has taken the Test, yet his arcane energy now comes from Takhisis. As he gets his magic from a god other than the moon gods, people assume he is a cleric. Ergo, the confusion.
So Ariakas is given Knight of the Thorn levels to represent his unique nature as a predecessor to that very organization.
EDIT: Because I can't tell father from son, apparantly. ;)
So Ariakan is given Knight of the Thorn levels to represent his unique nature as a predecessor to that very organization.
Don't you mean Ariakas? and hey, I already answered him!
Maybe Blackguard?
Do Blackguards exist on Krynn? I've still not had the chance to play 3e Dragonlance . . .
Any info, however scant, on Ariakan?
I'll tell you in about two weeks, when I get my copy of War of the Lance.
Wouldn't Ariakan just be a Fighter/Knight of the Lily?
Maybe Blackguard?
Do Blackguards exist on Krynn? I've still not had the chance to play 3e Dragonlance . . .
Nah, remember he was described in the Chronicles as being a powerful wizard, one of the few that could stand to oppose Raistlin in his rise to power. I wouldn't necessarily describe Ariakas as a blackguard (the PrC), but the blackguard PrC could easily be fitted into a Dragonlance campaign.
I didnt know that the Knights of the Thorn were based on Ariakan's father. That is news to me. Where is that stated? Is it in the DLCS? It is a great concept though and it gives a sense of continuity to the War of the Lance and the Summer of Chaos as well as a way for Ariakan to honor his father.
Cam Banks stated something to the effect that it was Ariakan's homage to his father. Not sure if it is actually stated in the WotL book.
Don't you mean Ariakas? and hey, I already answered him!
D'oh! I thought I caught that. :embarrass
And you beat me by a millisecond. ;)
Amaron, the relationship betweeen AriakaS (with an "s" :D ) and the Knights of the Thorn is detailed in War of the Lance.
ITika is a perfect example of this. First off where do the rogue leves come in??? I've never seen her even remotely roguish. The 3 levels of fighter are a bit of a stretch for her after Xas Tharoth (sp) st best. I'd sya she'd be more like Commoner 3/Fighter 2 or 3. I just don't see the rogue levels factoring in anywhere. I give her Fighter levels and not Warrior because she was recieving training from Caramon and Sturm ever since they left The Inn of the Last Home.
Could she not have levels in Drunken Master ( Sword and Fist and Complete Warrior).
Tika is a perfect example of this. First off where do the rogue leves come in??? I've never seen her even remotely roguish. The 3 levels of fighter are a bit of a stretch for her after Xas Tharoth (sp) st best. I'd sya she'd be more like Commoner 3/Fighter 2 or 3. I just don't see the rogue levels factoring in anywhere. I give her Fighter levels and not Warrior because she was recieving training from Caramon and Sturm ever since they left The Inn of the Last Home.
Tika was raised as a theif, thats why all the levels in Rogue. She stole the Ring of Nature's Love from the vampire Lord Kryl... which started the whole Waylan going missing thing.... She actually still has the ring on a necklace around her neck! If she had worn it on her finger she would have lived forever! Isn't that ironic-don't you think?
I Really Want That Book! I Really Want That Book! I Really Want That Book!!
Amaron are you shure that you want that book it semms as though you dont
and by the way i really want that book
just kidding evrybody just kidding dont get all mad
I thought that her dad stole the ring and gave it to Tika
Nope, Tika stole it.
Then Kryl came after the Waylans and her father took responsibility, went to see Kryl, and was never heard of again.
Tika was raised as a theif, thats why all the levels in Rogue. She stole the Ring of Nature's Love from the vampire Lord Kryl... which started the whole Waylan going missing thing.... She actually still has the ring on a necklace around her neck! If she had worn it on her finger she would have lived forever! Isn't that ironic-don't you think?
Sorry, my bad. I remember reading that she was the daughter of Waylan the Illusionist, a carnie-esque travelling magician, and that after he disappeared she turned to the streets. Very viable rogue leves there. Still, 3 levels of fighter just seems a little much for haning out with the companions for a just few weeks, even if she did go through Xas Thraoth (sp?) with them. A balanced party does not mean all characters need to be the same level. I guess that's my point.
A balanced party does not mean all characters need to be the same level. I guess that's my point.
It does under the current rules. This is why the ECL and level adjustment rules are in place, so that characters who are members of more powerful races can be identified as being equivalent to a certain level in order to achieve a balanced party of adventurers.
Note that this doesn't invalidate somebody who runs a game where some of the heroes are 6th level, some are 5th and some are 4th, but the system is geared more towards a default state in which all player characters are at the same level, and thus no character is more powerful than the other (and thereby gets all the glory and overshadows the others).
Cheers,
Cam
Is there a Revered Child of Paladine PrC in the War of the Lance book?