I just got my Dungeon issue with Rary's stats in it and I'm asking myself why is this guy still Wiz24 and Mordenkainen Wiz27 ???
Rary was M24 in 2e when Mordy was AFAIK M20. so why did Mordy get this huge boost (and Robilar too he went from F15-Ftr24!) and Rary not even one level!?!
Does anyone know who statted the Greyhawk NPCs in ELH?
Hi,
I just got my Dungeon issue with Rary's stats in it and I'm asking myself why is this guy still Wiz24 and Mordenkainen Wiz27 ???
Rary was M24 in 2e when Mordy was AFAIK M20. so why did Mordy get this huge boost (and Robilar too he went from F15-Ftr24!) and Rary not even one level!?!
Does anyone know who statted the Greyhawk NPCs in ELH?
I wouldn't let myself be bothered by that. When they published the ELH, they plucked a few well-known characters from the different settings and turned them into epic NPC to demonstrate the new rules.
Since Mordenkainen was "only" 20th level at the time, they felt the need to boost him a bit.
That said, I always found curious that Mordenkainen was lower level than Rary to begin with.
But if you need an explanation, think about it this way: since he relocated to the Bright Lands, Rary has been mainly exploring the place and trying to uncover ways to return it to a more fertile state. He didn't exactly run into dozens of worthy adversaries for a lvl 23 (24 thanks to a ioun stone) wizard.
Mordenkainen, on the other hand, has presumably continued to travel around (not only on Oerth but beyond) and has also probably run across some pretty nasty critters while doing so. Hence the new "epic" version.
(But then Robilar went from ftr15 or 16 to Ftr24!!!)
Do you know who statted these guys for ELH?
Incidently Rary did gain a level, in Rary the Traitor he is M24 (25 with ioun stone). He's met some challenges in the Bright Desert. (See Rary the traitor and also Dungeon 103 and 98).
I found an old file i downloaded from somewhere with different stats of the circle.
Circle of Eight Stats
Here is what I have on those luminaries:
From Rogues gallery I (1980):
Bigby (M13; Hp 42; S 11, I 17, W 16, D 18, C 15, Ch 10; AL N)
Mordenkainen (M16; Hp 61; S 10, I 18, W 12, D 17, C 17, Ch 18; AL N)
Tenser (M14; Hp 56; S 10, I 16, W 11, D 16, C 16, Ch 18; AL LG)
From Mordenkainen's fantastic adventure (1984):
Bigby (M10; Hp 39; S 8, I 17, W 14, D 17, C 15, C 12; AL N)
Mordenkainen (M12; Hp 52; S 10, I 18, W 15, D 17, C 17, C 18; AL N)
From City of Greyhawk boxed set (FFF booklet) (1989):
Bigby (M18; Hp 46; S 9, I 17, W 15, D 17, C 15, Ch 12; AL N)
Drawmij (M16; Hp 44; S 7, I 18, W 17, D 16, C 15, Ch 9; AL N)
Jallarzi (M14; Hp 38; S 10, I 18, W 17, D 18, C 9, Ch 17; AL NG)
Mordenkainen (M20; Hp 66; S 10, I 18, W 15, D 17, C 17, Ch 18; AL N)
Nystul (M16; Hp 57; S 7, I 18, W 17, D 10, C 15, Ch 15; AL N)
Otiluke (M16; Hp 39; S 5, I 17, W 8, D 17, C 10, Ch 11; AL N)
Otto (Pr5/M14; Hp 45; S 16, I 17, W 15, D 7, C 15, Ch 16; AL N (NG)
Rary (M23; Hp 50; S 7, I 19, W 19, D 11, C 12, Ch 16; AL N)
Tenser (M20; Hp 60; S 10, I 17, W 11, D 16, C 16, Ch 18; AL LG(N)
From Vecna lives (1990):
Same stats as FFF booklet except Nystul has only 45 hit points.
From Rary the traitor (1992):
Rary (M24; Hp 52; S 7, I 19, W 19, D 11, C 12, Ch 16; AL NE)
From Return of the Eight:
Mordenkainen (M26; Hp 72; S 10, I 18, W 15, D 17, C 17, Ch 18; AL N) ???
Bigby (M18; Hp 46; S 9, I 17, W 15, D 17, C 15, Ch 12; AL N) ???
Drawmij (M16; Hp 44; S 7, I 18, W 17, D 16, C 15, Ch 9; AL N) ???
Nystul (M16; Hp 57; S 7, I 18, W 17, D 10, C 15, Ch 15; AL N) ???
Otto (Pr5/M14; Hp 45; S 16, I 17, W 15, D 7, C 15, Ch 16; AL N (NG) ???
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tenser (M21; Hp 41; S 10, I 17, W 11, D 16, C 14, Ch 18; AL LG)
Jallarzi Salavarian (M14; Hp 38; S 10, I 18, W 17, D 18, C 9, Ch 17; AL NG)
Warnes Starcoat (M20; Hp 54; S 14, I 20, W 17, D 18, C 15, Ch 17; AL N)
Theodain Eraison (M17; Hp 35; S 15, I 18, W 15, D 17, C 13, Ch 16; AL CN)
Alhamazad the wise (M19; Hp 39; S 7, I 18, W 17, D 13, C 8, Ch 14; AL LN)
I know the first stats up to Rary the Traitor wher compiled by Stephane Tanguy on Greytalk. What i don't know is where do the stats for Mordy as M26 come from. They're definately not from Rot8, i checked.
Does anyone have a clue?
Also if anyone knows where the file is from, that would be some help. (It was named circle8stats.doc)
But then Robilar went from ftr15 or 16 to Ftr24
Well, while the archmage was resting/studying in his tower, Robilar was conquering the Bright Lands for him (not to mention killing Volte, a blue dragon wyrm, in a fit of anger). That deserves a few xp, no? ;)
Incidently Rary did gain a level, in Rary the Traitor he is M24 (25 with ioun stone). He's met some challenges in the Bright Desert. (See Rary the traitor and also Dungeon 103 and 98)
I am afraid not. Both sources list him as a Wiz24, bonus from the ioun stone included. When a magic item is listed as carried, its power(s) are always included in the stats of the NPC.
Well, while the archmage was resting/studying in his tower, Robilar was conquering the Bright Lands for him (not to mention killing Volte, a blue dragon wyrm, in a fit of anger). That deserves a few xp, no? ;)
Ok. but going up 9 levels ??? come on.... That's a bit much even for 3E.
Also Rary is hardly doing nothing in the Bright Lands.
He's researching/searching an artifact and a lost civilization. Trying to find a way to reverse the curse of the Bright desert and build a whole nation.
I am afraid not. Both sources list him as a Wiz24, bonus from the ioun stone included. When a magic item is listed as carried, its power(s) are always included in the stats of the NPC.
My Veca Lives has Rary listed as M23, and Rary the Traitor as M24. Only Rary the Traitor includes the ioun stone, as he took that from Otiluke only after Vecna Lives. If it is already included in the stats i don't know. But it would make sense. So Rary gains a level in 3e with his stats in Dungeon 103.
Any idea where the M26 stats for Mordenkainen could be from???
Mordy should be lower level than Rary though, because Mordy's power comes more from his political intrigue than raw unadulterated power.
Halber
Ok. but going up 9 levels ??? come on.... That's a bit much even for 3E.
I know, I was joking. 9 levels is obviously too much. Alas, since the latest source becomes automatically the new reference, that Ftr 24 is now canon. Well, till Rob gives us updated stats in Dungeon, that is.
Also Rary is hardly doing nothing in the Bright Lands.
He's researching/searching an artifact and a lost civilization. Trying to find a way to reverse the curse of the Bright desert and build a whole nation.
True. That said, IF Rary was a player in your campaign, would you give him enough xp to level for merely "researching" a solution? Last I know, he hasn't reversed the curse yet. I think the toughest fight he has been in since he came to the Bright Lands has been a battle against the lich Drokkas. And even that was a CR20 encounter. For a wizard of Rary's level, that earns only peanuts.
My Veca Lives has Rary listed as M23, and Rary the Traitor as M24. Only Rary the Traitor includes the ioun stone, as he took that from Otiluke only after Vecna Lives. If it is already included in the stats i don't know. But it would make sense. So Rary gains a level in 3e with his stats in Dungeon 103.
Hmm, no. Rary is still a M23. In Vecna Lives, as you pointed out, he doesn't have the ioun stone yet. In Rary the Traitor AND Dungeon #103, he is listed as a M24 carrying Otiluke's ioun stone. Thus, his new level is purely artificial. Granted, they could have made it a bit more obvious by listing him as "Wizard 24(23)".
Alas, since the latest source becomes automatically the new reference, that Ftr 24 is now canon. Well, till Rob gives us updated stats in Dungeon, that is.
I dunno. When it comes to NPCs, Rob is probably going to be slightly biased about Robilar...
(Don't feel bad, Rob! We ALL love our personal ex-PCs... Just don't give him the Feet of Vectra: people will start to TALK.)
