Religion in Small Towns or Villages - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Religion in Small Towns or Villages

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 30, 2004 13:21:19 I'm looking to find out peoples opinon on how areas of worship are handled in a DL Small Town. Does the town have one or two temples dedicated to a certain deity, a temple dedicated to certain deities (Good, Nuetral, Evil) or just a bunch of small areas of worship throughout the town? I know some of the more nature deities will have areas outside towns and some of the evil deities will have hidden areas of worship.
#2
iltharanos
Sep 30, 2004 15:49:10 Per Amber and Ashes the pattern appears to be a single temple/shrine to each deity, with all such temples/shrines located in the same part of each city (e.g. Temple district, Temple row, etc.)
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 30, 2004 20:51:45 I would imagine that that varies somewhat based on the size of the town. Obviously a thorp, hamlet or village isn't going to have 19 temples in it! There wouldn't be enough congregants (and tithes) to support so many buildings and clerics.

Also, this is the Age of Mortals and the gods only just got back, so some towns may be relatively agnostic for a while. Many people are likely to be highly uneducated about the gods and superstition may be more common (as it was in the Age of Despair).

In all likelihood towns mirror the cities to some extent in that they probably have a few preferred deities who are held in highest esteem by the locals. Alternatively, they may have shrines dedicated to multiple gods (as seen in some polytheistic societies on Earth) where people make offerings.

The clerical demographic is also important to consider. Ideally the ratio of laity to clerics should be around 100:1. Likewise, the specific faith of a cleric will impact the population's religious tendencies. If a village has a cleric of Mishakal, Shinare and Zivilyn then those will probably be the gods with the most worshippers and local religious observance may center on them. Thorps and hamlets may support only one cleric and thus be relatively monotheistic.

On a similar note, other factors may impact faith. A village might be under the sway of a cult led by a particularly charismatic mystic for example (think of the Branch Davidians). Other non-divine objects of worship may occur. In areas close to lands controlled by Dragon Overlords worship of the Overlord may occur.
#4
ferratus
Sep 30, 2004 22:05:42 This is actually a good question. I started jotting down ideas for designing temples myself.

I came up with a bunch of locales such as a pre-cataclysm city overrun with wildlife and druids (Chislev), an Isle where sailors are lured with lights and sacrificed to the sharks (Zeboim) an example of a frontier abbey meant to keep the hordes at bay (Kiri-Jolith) etc.

Then I started thinking... is this what Krynnish temples look like, or are they more standardized than that? The only models of reference I had were the two temples of Paladine in Istar and Palanthas, and the Shrine of Takhisis in Palanthas.

Is Krynnish religion very standard, with each faith being similar? Is it congregationalist among all the faiths of the Holy Order of the Stars? I know each faith has a dogmas and beleifs aside from cultivating benevolence among the gods. I know that there is a proper way to worship the gods (the Disks of Mishakal).

Then I started wondering, since Krynnish religion has a lot of influences from Mormonism, whether or not there is temples as well as churches (the former for rituals the latter for preaching).

Then I wondered if I was overthinking it. So I toss it over to the boards now.
#5
iltharanos
Sep 30, 2004 22:21:30 There was an interesting point in Amber and Ashes where Rhys the monk of Majere stated that Majere existed in all the wild places and had no temples ... and then he passed by some temples of Majere in Solace.
#6
zombiegleemax
Sep 30, 2004 22:36:32 Well also there is the fact that things recently underwent a major change.

When Paladine and Takhisis were gods their presence was so overpowering that at times it felt as though Krynnish religion was a dualistic system (Gilean being worshipped sparsely at best).

The other gods were often worshipped only under the umbrella of their pantheons except for in specific examples, such as the gods of magic (worshipped by wizards but almost nobody else) or Reorx (worshipped by dwarves and gnomes but largely ignored by other races).

So in many cases broad worship may have resembled medieval Catholicism with it's strong emphasis on saints. Castle Crimson, described in Age of Mortals has a rather ecumenical chapel with shrines to various gods of good and neutrality, as well as an outdoor grove shrine to Chislev.

A larger, more diverse place, like Solace (the crossroads of southern Ansalon to be sure) or major cities like Palanthus and Solanthus may support more specialized temples.

Now that the gods of Light and Darkness are leaderless their members are likely to be more overt in having monotheistic temples. But given that the gods only returned recently smaller villages are likely to have such specific focus only if they have one cleric.

Note that this is a different discussion than specialized sites. A monastery of Majere is essentially a community unto itself, even if it is just up the hill from a village. A Solamnic castle may be a focus of Kiri-Jolith worship even though the peasants in the nearby town usually worship Shinare, Chislev and Mishakal (or perhaps even Zeboim if near a coastline). Not everyone in the world is an adventurer or a member of a specialized class. Commoners, Experts and such very likely worship more broadly, if they worship at all.

Again, medieval Catholicism is a good analogy, as many people often venerated various saints for specific issues in life, while simultaneously keeping faith in a supreme God. On Krynn this often meant Paladine or Takhisis and then other relevant gods after them. Even Goldmoon, a cleric of Mishakal, often uttered prayers to Paladine.
#7
iltharanos
Sep 30, 2004 22:45:13 The recent godly return doesn't explain the presence of an ancient set of temple ruins to the Gods, particularly Chemosh in Solace. If the recent godly return were an impetus to the relatively new presence of temples to these heretofore subsumed deities, then it's not likely there would be ancient temples dedicated to them in settlements that prior to the recent return were nothing more than overgrown villages.
#8
cam_banks
Sep 30, 2004 23:41:17 Forms of worship and local traditions do exist outside of the Holy Orders, which are adhered to or arise from commonfolk and laymen. In Khur, the gods don't always have temples, but alleyways occasionally have small generic shrines in which the faithful will put up their little icons or religious tokens and conduct their daily meditations. In Abanasinia and the west, actual temples are constructed with strong symbolism and features of historical and religious importance. And in the Ergothian empire, cathedral-palaces built by former emperors and used alternately as places of worship and halls of power or residences make it clear that religion and rule go hand in hand.

I believe the dogma has a standard, at least at certain points in Krynn's history, and it is this dogma which is passed down to the faithful in such revelations as the Disks of Mishakal or in icons of truth. How this dogma is accepted, used, practiced, and manifested among a given culture will, on the other hand, sharply differ between regions.

Cheers,
Cam
#9
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2004 9:50:00
The recent godly return doesn't explain the presence of an ancient set of temple ruins to the Gods, particularly Chemosh in Solace. If the recent godly return were an impetus to the relatively new presence of temples to these heretofore subsumed deities, then it's not likely there would be ancient temples dedicated to them in settlements that prior to the recent return were nothing more than overgrown villages.

Except that in some cases the settlements might have been built where they were because of the ancient buildings at that site. A great many towns and cities in Europe of the Dark Ages were situated near the ruins of older Roman Imperial settlements. In many cases locals cannibalized ancient buildings for building materials for new construction.

Geographical desirability is often consistent from generation to generation and many locales that were considered good sites to build remain such through the ages. It's not a coincidence that so many cities in Europe and Asia are sitting on the ruins of earlier cities.
#10
iltharanos
Oct 01, 2004 12:57:02
Except that in some cases the settlements might have been built where they were because of the ancient buildings at that site. A great many towns and cities in Europe of the Dark Ages were situated near the ruins of older Roman Imperial settlements. In many cases locals cannibalized ancient buildings for building materials for new construction.

Geographical desirability is often consistent from generation to generation and many locales that were considered good sites to build remain such through the ages. It's not a coincidence that so many cities in Europe and Asia are sitting on the ruins of earlier cities.

True enough, but truly ancient Chemosh ruins don't seem likely in the location of Solace, simply because if you go far enough back in time the location would sit squarely within the elven domain of Qualinesti. I can certainly see the case for newer and newer settlements being built around other old temple sites, with places such as Neraka and Daltigoth coming to mind.

What surprises me though is that, particularly with Solace, there would even be a temple to Chemosh to begin with. The description in Amber and Ashes doesn't lend well to the temple having been built post-War of Souls. Neither is it likely that the temple was built in the pre-War of Souls post-Chaos War era given the prevailing attitude of another abandonment felt by the people. It may be possible that the temple was built post-War of the Lance and pre-Chaos War ... but you would figure that some mention of such a structure devoted to an evil deity would warrant mention in at least one of the novels detailing that time and place.

I suppose the most logical explanation is that the temple was built during the occupation of Solace by the red dragonarmy during the War of the Lance ... but then you'd figure that a temple of Takhisis would have been raised rather than a temple to Chemosh. A post-1st Cataclysm pre-War of the Lance era construction time doesn't seem likely either, given the general populace's intense dislike of the deities during most of the 4th Age. Pre-1st Cataclysm seems even less likely, since the area was right square in the middle of Qualinesti.

So when was this temple erected?
#11
ferratus
Oct 01, 2004 13:43:12 Well I would think it would depend on what the relationship with the Krynnish dieties were.

1) Intensely personal communion (Mystery Cults, Abrahamic Faiths)

In this situation I would imagine that if you erected a temple to Chemosh, you were expected to be personally devoted to him. You would revere and adore this diety and follow its teachings. If this is the case, the temple to Chemosh would have had to be a secret one in a seldom visited part of the Qualinesti forest, built by a group of elves who quickly found themselves exiled.

2) Cultivating benevolence through offerings (Greco-Roman state religion)

In this model, you wouldn't be personally attached to the diety in question, but would offer sacrifices to them to avoid their wrath. After all, that's the original meaning of benevolence (not goodwill but instead not-bad will). As Moe says on the Simpsons "I am a well wisher, in that I don't wish you any particular harm."

So I can imagine a temple to Chemosh set up designed to placate this dread god, by the elves or others.
#12
talinthas
Oct 01, 2004 14:10:42 I dunno, i can also see a temple of Chemosh existing to perform funeral rites and such for the community. You know, have taboos like Dead People can only be moved in the presence of a chemoshian, or certain rites and ceremonies have to occur with the proper ritual, etc. Just cause he's evil doesnt mean he isnt vital to the community.

And remember kids, make your monthly offering to the temple or poor uncle Charlie, the one who died of pneumonia, will be home for the holidays...
#13
zombiegleemax
Oct 02, 2004 11:30:10 That's just it.

Common people are less likely to be rigidly monotheistic than members of adventuring classes, except in those instances where they are part of a monothetistic religion.

In other words, building a shrine to Chemosh would not be out of character for people seeking to placate the god of death. As was mentioned in the book, many people suddenly start taking an interest in Chemosh when death affects their lives in some way (as with the death of a loved one). It is possible such a shrine might have been built by cultists, or during a time when loss of life was particularly high (famine, war, plague, etc.).

Many people might be leery of disturbing such an edifice. Superstition reigned during the Age of Despair and Chemosh in particular, having many undead minions, would have shrines that people would be leery of disturbing.

Since many common people don't want to risk offending any god for fear of their wrath, it would not be surprising in a small village for people to have a shrine including representations of Good, Neutral and even Evil gods.

The exception of course is when the town has it's own cleric, and that cleric naturally follows one god. If a small farming settlement only supports a single cleric of Chislev then her worship is likely to be the dominant religion.

On the other hand, this may vary by pantheon. The core teachings of all the gods of Good are the Disks of Mishakal, so clerics of Mishakal may preach a message that includes the other gods of Good (as was typically the case under Paladine). The Evil gods on the other hand are more possessive and so a cleric of Sargonnas is not very likely to encourage worship of Zeboim or Chemosh for example.

In a nutshell this means that there is room for all possibilities here. Polytheistic communities worshipping all the gods (perhaps having holidays to honor each one). Monotheistic villages following a single god exclusively. Even cults led by mystics to themselves or to imaginary gods.

Note that it is unlikely that clerics (or even mystics) are prolific enough yet for every community to have one (or more). The Holy Orders had only one generation to reestablish themselves after the Age of Despair before Takhisis stole the world. So some communities may even have a temple in their midst that is disused and they know little or nothing about the religion that was practiced therein.
#14
quentingeorge
Oct 02, 2004 18:48:07 The two evil gods Solace had a temple to were Zeboim and Chemosh, which likely supports the "placating" reasoning.

Though why Solace, a land-locked town, would worry about placating the goddess of storms and sea-travel, I have no idea...
#15
talinthas
Oct 02, 2004 18:53:22 her other portfolio is storms. what farm community wouldnt want to placate the goddess who brings them rain?
#16
zombiegleemax
Oct 02, 2004 18:56:40
Though why Solace, a land-locked town, would worry about placating the goddess of storms and sea-travel, I have no idea...

A town of that size would have considerable crop farms, a decent rain without too much turmoil could be a request to such a godess no? ;) But in all reality my guess is that the temple was a misunderstanding in worship, not of the goddess of storms but the goddess of sturms.

Yeah ok, I behave now... no bad puns like that for the rest of today

Randal, who got in just behind tal it seems
#17
zombiegleemax
Oct 03, 2004 11:37:36 Zeboim is the Evil god most likely to worshipped by non-evil people I think. After all, it would be silly to argue that all the sailors and fisherfolk on Krynn have to be evilly-aligned. In Amber & Ashes the cleric of Kiri-Jolith seems to accept the presence of a cleric of Zeboim in the same town. They even seem to get along fairly well. As Zeboim is goddess of storms her worship is probably still present inland, though perhaps less prominent than in coastal regions.

Other gods like Chemosh and Morgion may be placated during times of death and plague. Sargonnas may be invoked by angry people seeking revenge for something. Hiddukel may be quietly prayed to by those seeking an extra edge in money-making endeavors.

Solace is a crossroads town with a fairly long history (going back even before human occupation, when the area belonged to the elves). Given that, it might have acquired shrines to a lot of gods over the centuries, some being put up at a time when a particular god's favor was seen as needed and then becoming neglected when it wasn't. As I recall, the Solace shrine of Chemosh seemed unattended. But people may fear divine wrath in the form of wraiths, ghosts or whatever too much to tamper with the place.
#18
luis_de_pippo
Oct 03, 2004 19:56:59 In my opinion temples of the gods were very rare on Ansalon. Shrines were much more common, at least during the Ages of Dream and Might. While the worship of the gods was quite widespread it was not central to the daily life until the rise of Istar.

For the good order, in Brothers at Arms there was a town, forgot the name, who had a temple of Paladine and there was the one in Istar. Mishakal had a big temple in Xak-Tsaroth but Majere had abbeys dispersed in remote regions. Branchala was worshipped by elves and kenders, but the late did not build any temples while the former did. I do not remember a temple of Kiri-Jolith, but I would assume that he, along with Habbakuk, had various shrines whenever Solamnic influence spread. The elves had temples to all the good gods, but not to the neutral ones with the exception of Chislev.

The Great Library was, in a sense, a Temple of Gilean. Shinaire had small shrines in dwarven settlements along with the really big temples of Reorx. Zyvilin did not have any temple, but I can see some shrines to him. Chislev was revered by druids so she probably had sacred groves or rings of stone to her. Sirrion, that is very difficult since he is not widely worshipped.

Evil gods are more difficult. I have not read Amber and Ashes so I cannot form an opinion about the temple of Chemosh. Hiddukel´s priest have to lead double lives, so they wouldnt have open temples. Sargonnas rules the minotaurs so he has grand temples. Zeboim is placated by all seafaring races so her shrines are truly widespread.

As for smaller communities, before the Age of Mortals, they would have a shrine to Mishakal (since her clergy was endemic to nearly all settlements) and probably another shrine to a favored god.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 30, 2004 13:21:19	I'm looking to find out peoples opinon on how areas of worship are handled in a DL Small Town. Does the town have one or two temples dedicated to a certain deity, a temple dedicated to certain deities (Good, Nuetral, Evil) or just a bunch of small areas of worship throughout the town? I know some of the more nature deities will have areas outside towns and some of the evil deities will have hidden areas of worship.
#2 iltharanos Sep 30, 2004 15:49:10	Per Amber and Ashes the pattern appears to be a single temple/shrine to each deity, with all such temples/shrines located in the same part of each city (e.g. Temple district, Temple row, etc.)
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 30, 2004 20:51:45	I would imagine that that varies somewhat based on the size of the town. Obviously a thorp, hamlet or village isn't going to have 19 temples in it! There wouldn't be enough congregants (and tithes) to support so many buildings and clerics. Also, this is the Age of Mortals and the gods only just got back, so some towns may be relatively agnostic for a while. Many people are likely to be highly uneducated about the gods and superstition may be more common (as it was in the Age of Despair). In all likelihood towns mirror the cities to some extent in that they probably have a few preferred deities who are held in highest esteem by the locals. Alternatively, they may have shrines dedicated to multiple gods (as seen in some polytheistic societies on Earth) where people make offerings. The clerical demographic is also important to consider. Ideally the ratio of laity to clerics should be around 100:1. Likewise, the specific faith of a cleric will impact the population's religious tendencies. If a village has a cleric of Mishakal, Shinare and Zivilyn then those will probably be the gods with the most worshippers and local religious observance may center on them. Thorps and hamlets may support only one cleric and thus be relatively monotheistic. On a similar note, other factors may impact faith. A village might be under the sway of a cult led by a particularly charismatic mystic for example (think of the Branch Davidians). Other non-divine objects of worship may occur. In areas close to lands controlled by Dragon Overlords worship of the Overlord may occur.
#4 ferratus Sep 30, 2004 22:05:42	This is actually a good question. I started jotting down ideas for designing temples myself. I came up with a bunch of locales such as a pre-cataclysm city overrun with wildlife and druids (Chislev), an Isle where sailors are lured with lights and sacrificed to the sharks (Zeboim) an example of a frontier abbey meant to keep the hordes at bay (Kiri-Jolith) etc. Then I started thinking... is this what Krynnish temples look like, or are they more standardized than that? The only models of reference I had were the two temples of Paladine in Istar and Palanthas, and the Shrine of Takhisis in Palanthas. Is Krynnish religion very standard, with each faith being similar? Is it congregationalist among all the faiths of the Holy Order of the Stars? I know each faith has a dogmas and beleifs aside from cultivating benevolence among the gods. I know that there is a proper way to worship the gods (the Disks of Mishakal). Then I started wondering, since Krynnish religion has a lot of influences from Mormonism, whether or not there is temples as well as churches (the former for rituals the latter for preaching). Then I wondered if I was overthinking it. So I toss it over to the boards now.
#5 iltharanos Sep 30, 2004 22:21:30	There was an interesting point in Amber and Ashes where Rhys the monk of Majere stated that Majere existed in all the wild places and had no temples ... and then he passed by some temples of Majere in Solace.
#6 zombiegleemax Sep 30, 2004 22:36:32	Well also there is the fact that things recently underwent a major change. When Paladine and Takhisis were gods their presence was so overpowering that at times it felt as though Krynnish religion was a dualistic system (Gilean being worshipped sparsely at best). The other gods were often worshipped only under the umbrella of their pantheons except for in specific examples, such as the gods of magic (worshipped by wizards but almost nobody else) or Reorx (worshipped by dwarves and gnomes but largely ignored by other races). So in many cases broad worship may have resembled medieval Catholicism with it's strong emphasis on saints. Castle Crimson, described in Age of Mortals has a rather ecumenical chapel with shrines to various gods of good and neutrality, as well as an outdoor grove shrine to Chislev. A larger, more diverse place, like Solace (the crossroads of southern Ansalon to be sure) or major cities like Palanthus and Solanthus may support more specialized temples. Now that the gods of Light and Darkness are leaderless their members are likely to be more overt in having monotheistic temples. But given that the gods only returned recently smaller villages are likely to have such specific focus only if they have one cleric. Note that this is a different discussion than specialized sites. A monastery of Majere is essentially a community unto itself, even if it is just up the hill from a village. A Solamnic castle may be a focus of Kiri-Jolith worship even though the peasants in the nearby town usually worship Shinare, Chislev and Mishakal (or perhaps even Zeboim if near a coastline). Not everyone in the world is an adventurer or a member of a specialized class. Commoners, Experts and such very likely worship more broadly, if they worship at all. Again, medieval Catholicism is a good analogy, as many people often venerated various saints for specific issues in life, while simultaneously keeping faith in a supreme God. On Krynn this often meant Paladine or Takhisis and then other relevant gods after them. Even Goldmoon, a cleric of Mishakal, often uttered prayers to Paladine.
#7 iltharanos Sep 30, 2004 22:45:13	The recent godly return doesn't explain the presence of an ancient set of temple ruins to the Gods, particularly Chemosh in Solace. If the recent godly return were an impetus to the relatively new presence of temples to these heretofore subsumed deities, then it's not likely there would be ancient temples dedicated to them in settlements that prior to the recent return were nothing more than overgrown villages.
#8 cam_banks Sep 30, 2004 23:41:17	Forms of worship and local traditions do exist outside of the Holy Orders, which are adhered to or arise from commonfolk and laymen. In Khur, the gods don't always have temples, but alleyways occasionally have small generic shrines in which the faithful will put up their little icons or religious tokens and conduct their daily meditations. In Abanasinia and the west, actual temples are constructed with strong symbolism and features of historical and religious importance. And in the Ergothian empire, cathedral-palaces built by former emperors and used alternately as places of worship and halls of power or residences make it clear that religion and rule go hand in hand. I believe the dogma has a standard, at least at certain points in Krynn's history, and it is this dogma which is passed down to the faithful in such revelations as the Disks of Mishakal or in icons of truth. How this dogma is accepted, used, practiced, and manifested among a given culture will, on the other hand, sharply differ between regions. Cheers, Cam
#9 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2004 9:50:00	The recent godly return doesn't explain the presence of an ancient set of temple ruins to the Gods, particularly Chemosh in Solace. If the recent godly return were an impetus to the relatively new presence of temples to these heretofore subsumed deities, then it's not likely there would be ancient temples dedicated to them in settlements that prior to the recent return were nothing more than overgrown villages. Except that in some cases the settlements might have been built where they were because of the ancient buildings at that site. A great many towns and cities in Europe of the Dark Ages were situated near the ruins of older Roman Imperial settlements. In many cases locals cannibalized ancient buildings for building materials for new construction. Geographical desirability is often consistent from generation to generation and many locales that were considered good sites to build remain such through the ages. It's not a coincidence that so many cities in Europe and Asia are sitting on the ruins of earlier cities.
#10 iltharanos Oct 01, 2004 12:57:02	Except that in some cases the settlements might have been built where they were because of the ancient buildings at that site. A great many towns and cities in Europe of the Dark Ages were situated near the ruins of older Roman Imperial settlements. In many cases locals cannibalized ancient buildings for building materials for new construction. Geographical desirability is often consistent from generation to generation and many locales that were considered good sites to build remain such through the ages. It's not a coincidence that so many cities in Europe and Asia are sitting on the ruins of earlier cities. True enough, but truly ancient Chemosh ruins don't seem likely in the location of Solace, simply because if you go far enough back in time the location would sit squarely within the elven domain of Qualinesti. I can certainly see the case for newer and newer settlements being built around other old temple sites, with places such as Neraka and Daltigoth coming to mind. What surprises me though is that, particularly with Solace, there would even be a temple to Chemosh to begin with. The description in Amber and Ashes doesn't lend well to the temple having been built post-War of Souls. Neither is it likely that the temple was built in the pre-War of Souls post-Chaos War era given the prevailing attitude of another abandonment felt by the people. It may be possible that the temple was built post-War of the Lance and pre-Chaos War ... but you would figure that some mention of such a structure devoted to an evil deity would warrant mention in at least one of the novels detailing that time and place. I suppose the most logical explanation is that the temple was built during the occupation of Solace by the red dragonarmy during the War of the Lance ... but then you'd figure that a temple of Takhisis would have been raised rather than a temple to Chemosh. A post-1st Cataclysm pre-War of the Lance era construction time doesn't seem likely either, given the general populace's intense dislike of the deities during most of the 4th Age. Pre-1st Cataclysm seems even less likely, since the area was right square in the middle of Qualinesti. So when was this temple erected?
#11 ferratus Oct 01, 2004 13:43:12	Well I would think it would depend on what the relationship with the Krynnish dieties were. 1) Intensely personal communion (Mystery Cults, Abrahamic Faiths) In this situation I would imagine that if you erected a temple to Chemosh, you were expected to be personally devoted to him. You would revere and adore this diety and follow its teachings. If this is the case, the temple to Chemosh would have had to be a secret one in a seldom visited part of the Qualinesti forest, built by a group of elves who quickly found themselves exiled. 2) Cultivating benevolence through offerings (Greco-Roman state religion) In this model, you wouldn't be personally attached to the diety in question, but would offer sacrifices to them to avoid their wrath. After all, that's the original meaning of benevolence (not goodwill but instead not-bad will). As Moe says on the Simpsons "I am a well wisher, in that I don't wish you any particular harm." So I can imagine a temple to Chemosh set up designed to placate this dread god, by the elves or others.
#12 talinthas Oct 01, 2004 14:10:42	I dunno, i can also see a temple of Chemosh existing to perform funeral rites and such for the community. You know, have taboos like Dead People can only be moved in the presence of a chemoshian, or certain rites and ceremonies have to occur with the proper ritual, etc. Just cause he's evil doesnt mean he isnt vital to the community. And remember kids, make your monthly offering to the temple or poor uncle Charlie, the one who died of pneumonia, will be home for the holidays...
#13 zombiegleemax Oct 02, 2004 11:30:10	That's just it. Common people are less likely to be rigidly monotheistic than members of adventuring classes, except in those instances where they are part of a monothetistic religion. In other words, building a shrine to Chemosh would not be out of character for people seeking to placate the god of death. As was mentioned in the book, many people suddenly start taking an interest in Chemosh when death affects their lives in some way (as with the death of a loved one). It is possible such a shrine might have been built by cultists, or during a time when loss of life was particularly high (famine, war, plague, etc.). Many people might be leery of disturbing such an edifice. Superstition reigned during the Age of Despair and Chemosh in particular, having many undead minions, would have shrines that people would be leery of disturbing. Since many common people don't want to risk offending any god for fear of their wrath, it would not be surprising in a small village for people to have a shrine including representations of Good, Neutral and even Evil gods. The exception of course is when the town has it's own cleric, and that cleric naturally follows one god. If a small farming settlement only supports a single cleric of Chislev then her worship is likely to be the dominant religion. On the other hand, this may vary by pantheon. The core teachings of all the gods of Good are the Disks of Mishakal, so clerics of Mishakal may preach a message that includes the other gods of Good (as was typically the case under Paladine). The Evil gods on the other hand are more possessive and so a cleric of Sargonnas is not very likely to encourage worship of Zeboim or Chemosh for example. In a nutshell this means that there is room for all possibilities here. Polytheistic communities worshipping all the gods (perhaps having holidays to honor each one). Monotheistic villages following a single god exclusively. Even cults led by mystics to themselves or to imaginary gods. Note that it is unlikely that clerics (or even mystics) are prolific enough yet for every community to have one (or more). The Holy Orders had only one generation to reestablish themselves after the Age of Despair before Takhisis stole the world. So some communities may even have a temple in their midst that is disused and they know little or nothing about the religion that was practiced therein.
#14 quentingeorge Oct 02, 2004 18:48:07	The two evil gods Solace had a temple to were Zeboim and Chemosh, which likely supports the "placating" reasoning. Though why Solace, a land-locked town, would worry about placating the goddess of storms and sea-travel, I have no idea...
#15 talinthas Oct 02, 2004 18:53:22	her other portfolio is storms. what farm community wouldnt want to placate the goddess who brings them rain?
#16 zombiegleemax Oct 02, 2004 18:56:40	Though why Solace, a land-locked town, would worry about placating the goddess of storms and sea-travel, I have no idea... A town of that size would have considerable crop farms, a decent rain without too much turmoil could be a request to such a godess no? ;) But in all reality my guess is that the temple was a misunderstanding in worship, not of the goddess of storms but the goddess of sturms. Yeah ok, I behave now... no bad puns like that for the rest of today Randal, who got in just behind tal it seems
#17 zombiegleemax Oct 03, 2004 11:37:36	Zeboim is the Evil god most likely to worshipped by non-evil people I think. After all, it would be silly to argue that all the sailors and fisherfolk on Krynn have to be evilly-aligned. In Amber & Ashes the cleric of Kiri-Jolith seems to accept the presence of a cleric of Zeboim in the same town. They even seem to get along fairly well. As Zeboim is goddess of storms her worship is probably still present inland, though perhaps less prominent than in coastal regions. Other gods like Chemosh and Morgion may be placated during times of death and plague. Sargonnas may be invoked by angry people seeking revenge for something. Hiddukel may be quietly prayed to by those seeking an extra edge in money-making endeavors. Solace is a crossroads town with a fairly long history (going back even before human occupation, when the area belonged to the elves). Given that, it might have acquired shrines to a lot of gods over the centuries, some being put up at a time when a particular god's favor was seen as needed and then becoming neglected when it wasn't. As I recall, the Solace shrine of Chemosh seemed unattended. But people may fear divine wrath in the form of wraiths, ghosts or whatever too much to tamper with the place.
#18 luis_de_pippo Oct 03, 2004 19:56:59	In my opinion temples of the gods were very rare on Ansalon. Shrines were much more common, at least during the Ages of Dream and Might. While the worship of the gods was quite widespread it was not central to the daily life until the rise of Istar. For the good order, in Brothers at Arms there was a town, forgot the name, who had a temple of Paladine and there was the one in Istar. Mishakal had a big temple in Xak-Tsaroth but Majere had abbeys dispersed in remote regions. Branchala was worshipped by elves and kenders, but the late did not build any temples while the former did. I do not remember a temple of Kiri-Jolith, but I would assume that he, along with Habbakuk, had various shrines whenever Solamnic influence spread. The elves had temples to all the good gods, but not to the neutral ones with the exception of Chislev. The Great Library was, in a sense, a Temple of Gilean. Shinaire had small shrines in dwarven settlements along with the really big temples of Reorx. Zyvilin did not have any temple, but I can see some shrines to him. Chislev was revered by druids so she probably had sacred groves or rings of stone to her. Sirrion, that is very difficult since he is not widely worshipped. Evil gods are more difficult. I have not read Amber and Ashes so I cannot form an opinion about the temple of Chemosh. Hiddukel´s priest have to lead double lives, so they wouldnt have open temples. Sargonnas rules the minotaurs so he has grand temples. Zeboim is placated by all seafaring races so her shrines are truly widespread. As for smaller communities, before the Age of Mortals, they would have a shrine to Mishakal (since her clergy was endemic to nearly all settlements) and probably another shrine to a favored god.