Charismatic playing of evil gods (warning, likely severe verges from canon)

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Charles_Phipps

Oct 06, 2004 10:59:59
The portrayal of Chemosh as a fairly affiable chap in Amber and Ashes made think on the idea that playing Deities of the Evil gods of Dragonlance may be better if the beings are assumed to not necessarily be the "nasty, ugly, evil" that they routinely get saddled with in Dragonlance.

Sargonnas already has gotten something of a facelift from the book's earliest days when it was revealed that he actually seemed to give something of a darn for the Minotaur race.

I'm considering thus for my high-level campaign to have the gods of evil all have redeeming qualities even as I'm thinking also that the gods of good will all be somewhat "lost" without Paladine.

Basically, this thread is devoted to ideas for 'fixing' evil gods of Krynn to becoming more likeable and perhaps a tad ambigious.

The first deity I want to give a face-lift is Morgion and my idea for him is to portray him as an individual in the Krynnish equivalent of a business suit. My players love the pseudo-Tolkien/Christian undertone to the polytheism of dragonlance and it occurred to me it might also be an interesting idea to have one of the gods resent the idea of Paladine that he's an enemy of the High God.

My Morgion would considers himself the most faithful servant of the HG imaginable. He after all has the worst job in the multiverse...he torments the evil in the Abyss and he's the guy who spreads death (which he shares with Chemosh since he represents "dying" and Chemosh the end) and decay across the continents in order to toughen souls.

At least, that's his excuse.

Morgion I'd also be the god of evil most interested in the sciences. As the god of entropy (to expand his disease porfolio- Morgion's portrayal in the Kinslayer wars indicates that he does have these powers) he'd be interested in perhaps working with renegades and thinkers to creating ever ways of increasing the potential of his porfolio or reversing it.

I'm not sure whether I want to portray Morgion as hating his job and wanting to see some way around it (creating undying things like Golems to replace man) or the active spread or working on both projects simultaneously (he is a god after all).

In truth, he'd just be titanically arrogant and think himself beyond reproach which would travel down to his clerics who consider themselves "punishers of the guilty." I was thinking he might be the god alternative of Doctors who don't worship Mishakhal. People who tend to be drawn from the cynical and believe death and disease must be placated not ignored (Chemosh would have a fair amount of these as well of course-probably Chiselev too).

I'd also imagine Morgion being the reluctant lord in New Krynn over the rot of spirituality as well. His clerics reluctantly leading individuals to damnation while keeping themselves morally 'pure'

What do you think?
#2

cam_banks

Oct 06, 2004 11:06:38
Morgion seems far more of the secretive and paranoid type than arrogant or a reluctant and faithful servant of the High God. He's insidious and has a plan laid out for what he intends to do, very fitting for the god of plague and disease. He's the divine vector for the sickness of the world, the impetus behind the spread of illness and decay, and this can't be done out in the open where it can be stopped and recognized.

Cheers,
Cam
#3

Charles_Phipps

Oct 06, 2004 14:36:03
*bows before her wisdom*

In that respect it might be interesting to question WHY he spreads disease and decay. Chemosh certainly has his motives beyond "its just what I do when I can't get no lovin" (actually, that sounds about right) while Takhasis and Sargonnas were/is just incredibly power hungry.

Your guess is as good as mine though if not the HG or his arrogance, perhaps some other ideal.

If Morgion is a God of insidiousness and secrets it might be interesting to see him head a type of Illuminati society. As stated, there's no god of "spiritual corruption" now in Dragonlance and disease/plague is fairly limited. We know of course that Zebomin and Chemosh are both expanding in the wake of their death.

I think Morgion certainly could as well.
#4

zombiegleemax

Oct 06, 2004 15:07:39
I think you're all confusing Morgion with Hiddukel here.

Hiddukel, as the god of corrupt wealth, is far more likely to be the sinister, but affable "suit" with Illuminati-like followers. Indeed, half the major mechants and nobles on Anaslon are likely candidates for such a group. They would be cultured, genteel, gracious and thoroughly corrupt.

Morgion, as a god of disease, is more likely perhaps than even Chemosh to have particularly loathsome worshippers. The "why" behind why he does what he does ties into the three "gifts" originally given to the spirits that became the mortal races of Krynn by the gods. Takhisis sought to coerce the spirits towards Evil by introducing frailty to their mortal bodies. Note that the original ogres, Takhisis's first chosen, were immortal. Afflicting disease on the humans and elves would have forced them into desperate situations where evil might flourish. This was certainly Morgion's tactic during the Age of Despair, when regular plagues made people angrily lash out at anyone they could blame, such as the wizards or Knights.

I do see Sargonnas becoming less of a brute lately and more of an "imperial" deity as his minotaurs expand their civilization. Likewise his worshippers among other races may see him in a more civilized but militant aspect.

Zeboim has always been more public-oriented. As Amber and Ashes shows, her wrathfulness is at least partly a public relations scheme to keep people mindful (and worshipful of her). Her Evil stems more from her willingness to kill people to keep the whole drama going than from any philosophical commitment to Evil per se.

Nuitari has always been a more appealing Evil god. But as his interest is specific to wizards it has kept his worship more limited. But note that specialists in Enchantment fall under his purview.

I do agree that with Takhisis gone the other Evil gods will be showing more of a public face rather than just being leering goons backing up their Dark Queen.
#5

zombiegleemax

Oct 06, 2004 16:46:27
Morgion seems far more of the secretive and paranoid type than arrogant or a reluctant and faithful servant of the High God. He's insidious and has a plan laid out for what he intends to do, very fitting for the god of plague and disease. He's the divine vector for the sickness of the world, the impetus behind the spread of illness and decay, and this can't be done out in the open where it can be stopped and recognized.

Cheers,
Cam

Cam came in with some ole let me write this out, in detail, like I am writing a guide to playing Morgion. You can tell he writes for SP.

~~~
#6

Charles_Phipps

Oct 06, 2004 17:36:51
You're probably right, aside from Hiddukiel's appearence as a Soul-Collector in the "Meetings Sextet" he hasn't recieved much in the way of appearences personally and he can go beyond corrupt warty dwarf I'm sure.

In fact, I'll probably draw from "Vandal Savage" from DC comics for my ideas personally. The corrupt but ancient businessman with the absolutely insane love for intrigue, politics, and deceit.

I can't imagine Morgion being just some guy going around spreading disease though and while I'm sure Morgion and Chemosh both have some pretty sick followers, both gods strike me as being more ambitious than wanting to basically attract the Jeffery Dahlmers of the world.

Morgion: That's just great really...yeah. Wonderful job. Sacrifice the entire family to me in your stupid black robes as you chant on a altar. I'm so impressed...gee THAT Will attract followers to me.

Morgion is sneaky and underhanded as Cam has said. He's the MOST sneaky and underhanded though and I don't think that his followers are a bunch of raving packs of Book of Vile Darkness "Plague Spawners."

Rennard and the Silvastani general from the Kinslayer wars are both refined, cultured, and intelligent men whom nevertheless are thoroughly enslaved to Morgion's wishes. Furthermore, both men aren't interested in spreading physical disease.

They instead are involved both in causing their respective devastating wars not to end. Hence Morgion has some vested interest in at the very least, physical corruption.

Also, the Silvastani general was made by Morgion immune to death at the hands of any race that he'd slain a member of. Hence, Morgion also has authority over dying.
#7

zombiegleemax

Oct 06, 2004 18:02:00
Yeah, to most writers it's second nature to use elaborate prose, even on message boards. It's a difficult thing to overcome; I find myself speaking as if I were writing sometimes.
#8

zombiegleemax

Oct 06, 2004 19:46:27
I would be inclined to see Morgion as more of a blackmail type of god. One who spreads disease and witholds it's ill effects - so long as the sufferer serves him.
#9

Charles_Phipps

Oct 06, 2004 20:09:01
Is it makes Morgion such a one trick pony. I mean Chemosh is the god of the dead and yes he's creating undead but at least he was stylish with it. Is there anything that can be done for creative interpretation of his porfolio? Or personality.
#10

zombiegleemax

Oct 06, 2004 20:14:38
Spreading disease can be rather "stylish" too. Indeed, through the miracle of veneral diseases Morgion can have a powerful impact on what goes on in everyone's bedrooms. That opens to the door to all kinds of adult scenarios. Consider the lord who contracts something from a lady of dubious virtue and must now conceal the fact from his wife.

And of course Morgion has his role in the more traditional plague department. Plus there's always room for psychotics who like to "experiment" with poison and disease in the manner of a mad doctor.

Lots of possibilities really. But I expect that he and Chemosh would have to fight over who really "owns" death itself. And if death is the "gift" of the gods of Evil then there may be many among the other gods that would be just as happy without it.
#11

sephzero

Oct 06, 2004 20:36:31
Morgion could produce disease that produce madness and hallucination in his victims. Also you might consider adding drugs and narcotics under his protfolio as well. There is the possibilities of producing plagues that either alter the mind and/or bodies of its victim. Creating plague bearers that can hold and cultivate plagues like that one introduced in MM3.
#12

Charles_Phipps

Oct 06, 2004 21:39:09
I personally like the idea of Morgion holding sway over drugs. If Chemosh's "Beloved" are forming cults based around sex, it might be an interesting idea to have one that is using the other.

Disease I think should be symbolic in also including disease of the soul. Morgion could be the god of depression and illness of the mind (Morgion-the god of Madness!)

Also other ideas is that Morgion rules over things like Blight and is prayed to in times of famine.

None of this makes Morgion pretty charismatic though
#13

zombiegleemax

Oct 07, 2004 10:18:10
Well it's one of the reasons Morgion probably supports war, which can be seen as a kind decay affecting society (as well as encouraging destruction of property, battelfield diseases, etc.).

It's hard to cast a god like Morgion as charismatic. His usual aspect is a diseased, goat-headed humanoid after all.

But perhaps spin that a little. Aim for the "drug lord" look, the one who offers temptations to people that come with unmentioned consequences (sex with disease, drugs that bring pleasure but with addiction and side effects, etc.).

That would be quite similar to the "gift" Chemosh is giving out. Even he acknowledges it's not as "shiny as it looks on the surface".
#14

Charles_Phipps

Oct 07, 2004 10:32:49
It's hard to cast a god like Morgion as charismatic. His usual aspect is a diseased, goat-headed humanoid after all.

I'm fairly sure Chemosh was the goat-headed god. As we know, Chemosh changed his image for more mass market appeal. That's what this thread is about after all.

But perhaps spin that a little. Aim for the "drug lord" look, the one who offers temptations to people that come with unmentioned consequences (sex with disease, drugs that bring pleasure but with addiction and side effects, etc.).

Oh but the joys of Morgion is as long as you serve him, those consequences are delayed my friend! The party will never stop so long as you keep bringing more people in!

That's what I'm thinking of, thanks.

That would be quite similar to the "gift" Chemosh is giving out. Even he acknowledges it's not as "shiny as it looks on the surface".

Sounds good thus far. Frankly, I'm alittle mystified why everyone is worshipping Zebomin. I feel sorry for Habbuluk whose getting the same shaft Velkor is in Forgotten Realms.

The sea goddess is evil so any god who actually cares about sailors is ignored.
#15

sephzero

Oct 07, 2004 10:43:07
It is probably that most people figure that Zeboim is the better deity to hedge your luck on when it comes to avoiding disaster. Try to make peace with the person causing the disaster and all that. Given Zeboim's disposition this could fairly be warranted. That and I guess in the long run, Habbakuk
has not done that good job in the protecting compare to Zeboim's protection racket.

Of course the whole party feel to Morgion kind of reminds of Lord of the Quick from Blood Bayou. Now there was a twisted carnival of fun and delight for the plagued and leppers. He brings joy and relief from their pain and suffering that is mortal life.
#16

zombiegleemax

Oct 07, 2004 13:03:17
People worship Zeboim because if you live near a coastline you don't dare do otherwise. Unlike Chemosh and Morgion she doesn't have to be user-friendly. She has brute force to work with.

Habbakuk as a sea god is more tangental, as what he really has dominion over is sea creatures (along with all other animal life). That puts him and Zeboim at loggerheads as the deities of the sea and the things that live in or travel on it. But then, he has the advantage of far more worshippers inland than Zeboim does.
#17

ferratus

Oct 07, 2004 21:45:23
I've split the nature gods into three distinct areas.

I've made Habbakuk god of birds and beasts (including sea creatures)
I've made Chislev goddess of earth and plants
I've made Zeboim the goddess of sea and storms.

I've dropped Habbakuk's influence over the sea a great deal. Fishermen might still pray for a good catch, but for the fury of the perfect storm, you beg mommy Zeboim to spare you.
#18

Charles_Phipps

Oct 09, 2004 21:34:51
As stated, still need to figure up ways to make him charismatic. We're high enough level to recieve regular visits from the gods ala Mina.

Here's what I have for non-canon Morgion. This is his "new and improved image"

Morgion
"The Punisher, the Corruptor, The Scythe Master"

Intermediate God
Symbol: A Black Sun
Domains: Disease, Charm, Evil
Alignment: NE
Porfolio: Disease, Rot, Entropy, Suffering
Worshippers: Physicians, Masochists, Sadists, Monks, Vigilantes, the Sick, the Dying
Preferred weapon: Sickle

Morgion's clergy are both feaed and welcome in many lands. They preside over the persecution of the wicked even as their subtle hints cause even the most noble heart to fill with jealousy and spite. They claim Morgion is not a god of evil but one who punishes the wicked and serves a valuable role as the tempter of the human spirit so that they may become better beings.

Their debased rites and cruelty leave no true doubt as to his nature though.

History:

Morgion has always been something of an outcast amongst the gods of evil. Unlike the others, he was not a compatriot of Takhasis or part of her family but banished from the Pantheon of Good for the horrors he released upon the mortal world. He considers this a grave injustice and resents strongly being labeled one of the "Powers of Evil."

Morgion's clergy has always been drawn from the extremists of society. He has been known as the patron of sensualists, the vice ridden, the hate filled, and those whom curiously are fanatics in the hatred of the above. It was Morgion whom came up with the idea of the Graygem for actual sincere reasons as he intended to bind the father of all and nothing in order to harness his power to destroy his enemies in the 'evil' gods whom did not recognize his goodness or the neutral whom ignored the true calling (and perhaps the good whom recognized not his righteousness). The plan failed but defeated Iolanthes and made his influence a proper punishment on a sinful world.

During the Kingpriest's era Morgion allowed them to adopt the robes of the Church of Istar and to pursue in public the aims of punishing the sinful that he held in contempt, many forgot their true allegiance rather than bringing the Empire to his worship but to this day he has nothing but respect for the Empire. Morgion claims that the elves who turned lord Soth against hiswife were in fact his priestesses in disguise.

(it is quite likely he granted the Kingpriest's spells when Paladine withdrew his favor)

Morgion recruited as his high priest Hederick the Theocrat after the return of divinity and soon the zealot returned to his original goal with fantastic zeal. He eventually died at the hands of an outraged mob but not before he'd recruited hundreds of new priests for the Punisher.

The Age of Mortals struck Morgion as particularly cruel but the death of both Paladine and Takhasis he believes is more than worth it. With them gone, Morgion believes it is possible that he might gain enough power to ascend to the throne of the 'Evil' gods to wield them as a scourge against the atheistic age of Krynn or perhaps at last ascend to rulership of the Good gods since his glory is now no longer eclipsable.

Dogma: Find the weakness of the souls of those whom you associate with and see if they can be tempted by them. If they break then they were not worthy, if they do not then tempt them further until they are unassailable. Destroy those you break or recruit them into the worship of Morgion for only through him can their weakness be cleansed. Morgion holds the most sacred and saddest duty of all, respect him. Punish the sinful with plagues, drought, famine, and death for whom speak against Morgion and deny his redeeming hand for the world is rife with the wicked.

Avatar: Morgion appears to those whom are in need of fright to cleanse their souls asa horrific monster with a mask and a demon that is meant to inflict the most horrid of punishments. When he is less inclined to do so he appears as a shining white Adonis with glorious white wings, a crown of light, and a robe of the purest gemstones. This is all an illusion though and those with true sight see his black and ratted wings along with tattered attire that covers a sick and boil ridden body wearing an iron crown.

Morgion is a very sensual god and often tempts his followers into debasements himself which he seems to enjoy even as he speaks against such behavior. His touch often leaves an incurable save by his worship plague in those he favors though.