I'd like to hear from everyone about their experiences with the modules, and then as we get into it I'll have some more specific questions. If anyone has an 3e experience I'd like to hear that as well (I know that's blasphemy to some).
After defeating the Slavelords, and just recently experiencing some very harrowing encounters with some undead, I think everyone is ready for some good ole hack and slash. Should be fun!
with a full 3.x ruleset, I think the Giants would have pounded them some more ... we had lots of fun anyway.
All sorts of possibilities!
some how the PC's managed to beat feet, and make it to the courtyard.
(right, part of the fort was starting to burn already too) ... they climbed up onto the roof and were dodging dozens of thrown rocks. They had the wizard cast wall of force, but modifiy it (only PHb, so we went with a high spellcraft roll) to a screen of force so it could cover more area. It was also an attempt on their part not to tip off the giants that they had a powerful wizard among them.
fort burns, PC's escape, most of the giants are homeless (more resources needed to build a new fort ... but PC's got vital info about the glacial rift) ... and as a follow up, an Ogre Magi Mercenary band was hunting them down (the town they were based in was destroyed ... but they severely hurt the Merc's sending them off).
there were only 3 of us, and the other two were good about helping me flesh out the really large encounters (and rolling for the Giant's too).
All in all, it wasn't to hard to run since there was a lot of fudging and winging it.
Hopefully when you get to it your players won't mind doing the split personality thinga and being part PC/DM-aide, ... makes life much easier and is still great fun for all.
Here's my first question concerning G1. In the top level of the hill giant steading, almost everyone in the place is in the great hall. The chief, a cloud giant visitor and something like 22 hill giants are in this room. Even if this encounter weren't over powered, it would still be a bear to run a combat that big. How did it play out in your game? I can see several possibilites, from a grand melee, to hit and run tactics, to avoiding the room and entering the dungeon level and inciting a rebellion. My players are pretty gung ho; I'm interested to see how they react to such a massive force.
Our thief scouted out the room and, seeing the contents
, retreated. The thief mapped the room and what was in it(lots of giants!). Our two mages used wall of force with a 1 foot gap at the side(by the main entrance), followed by a wall of stone to block another doorway and a wall of iron to block the last doorway. The room was then inundated with three fireballs, an ice storm, a flame strike, and a cloudkill before one mage dispelled the wall of force and our fighters, cleric, and rogue rushed in and finished off the badly injured creatures that had managed to survive the magical onslaught. That one encounter took quite some planning and ended with only minor injuries. Then we went downstairs where one of the mages was hit by FOUR thrown boulders(two with critical hits(da-20!)-double damage in our campaign at the time) and was promptly pasted against a wall at -18 h.p.Just when you think you have it all figured out, the DM goes and rolls some "20's". ;)
I will be running this adventure for my current group using the 3.5 rules. Giants, and other things, are a whole lot nastier now so they had better learn really quick how to run away when they need to, or really learn to plan out their strikes. Otherwise there will be a few new pots of human, dwarf, elf, and gnome flavored meat paste for the giants to spread on their crackers.
Here's my first question concerning G1. In the top level of the hill giant steading, almost everyone in the place is in the great hall. The chief, a cloud giant visitor and something like 22 hill giants are in this room. Even if this encounter weren't over powered, it would still be a bear to run a combat that big. How did it play out in your game? I can see several possibilites, from a grand melee, to hit and run tactics, to avoiding the room and entering the dungeon level and inciting a rebellion. My players are pretty gung ho; I'm interested to see how they react to such a massive force.
I played this for the first time in v3.0. We managed to sneak around the Hall and clear everything out including the lower level first. Then we came back to clear out the hill giants. We found the secrect door into the hall. There were 2 main entrances into it, A long hall and to the kitchen. We, human cleric12, human Ranger12, Vodkin fighter8, Elvish fighter7, Dwarven fighter7, and human rouge3/fighter7, attack from all 3 entrances. I was the cleric. I came from the secrect entrance and cast greater command and took a large number out with that. Hill giants apparently don't have a high will save. Then cast blade barrier and kept out of harms way using that while casting other spells on Nosra(SP?). The others rushed in, buffed up, and started attacking the still standing giants. As the other ones woke up they were able to fight them. We also managed to take control of a couple of giants with potions of control. This dragged the combat out awhile, but was pretty effective and with a few healing spells applied at the right time we managed to win the day.
The PCs in my game will start G1-3 next session. This is the original compilation, not the Q1-7 version.
I'd like to hear from everyone about their experiences with the modules, and then as we get into it I'll have some more specific questions. If anyone has an 3e experience I'd like to hear that as well (I know that's blasphemy to some).
After defeating the Slavelords, and just recently experiencing some very harrowing encounters with some undead, I think everyone is ready for some good ole hack and slash. Should be fun!
Just about my absolute favorite adventure. I wrote up a compilation of some of the campaigns as a story on the old Greytalk list and I'm revising it on the Harvesters Heroes site right now, The Hill Giant Chief: Nosnra's Saga.
I've played through the series once when it was first released and DM'd four different groups through it over the last few decades. It isn't hack'n slash unless you want it to be.
For example the feast in the Great Hall is set that way so the players can get in and explore without running into giants everywhere and the noise of the feast covers the sound of fighting in other parts of the hall.
You will note that Greyhawk Hill Giants resemble early Anglo-Saxon society rather than the giant-sized cavemen depicted in the 1e Monster Manual. There is a lot of room to develop all the Giants so that players are faced with something more than just a single clan of giants.
Nosnra was at the forefront of an invasion. His band of giants would be formidable foes, but they would not be alone in invading the lowlands and conquering Geoff and Sterich. What that means in the adventure is that there should be nearby allies for Nosnra to call upon. Since he was preparing to summon an army of Hill Giants and allied creatures for the invasion he should be able to summon them in aid against the adventurers.
Keep in mind that burning down the steading might be extremely difficult. The climate as described sounds something like the Pacific Northwest of the USA. Wet, damp and rainy. The walls and roof would be hard to catch, slow and smokey to burn and easily extinguished.
Giants are extremely dangerous opponents, especially in close quarters. These Hill Giants have both weapons and armor. They should also be played as canny warriors with experience fighting the little people. If one of these guys falls on a PC they should inflict damage.
The giants wolves aren't wild, they are domesticated and they can be an incredibly effective tool as guardians and trackers.
This is a great campaign, don't know how it would play as a 3e adventure, but have fun with it.
The players went through the west side of the building, encountering mostly empty rooms and one wandering hill giant. Then they reached the kitchen, engaging in their first real fight but driving the staff off quite quickly. The cooks stattered in two different directions, but did not make it to the great hall to warn the chieftan. The party also steered clear of the main hall, instead continuing to the north and discovering the ogre quarters. 5 orges were hardly a match for this pumped up party. Thus ended the session.
So what next? I figure the giants partying in the main hall will only wait a few minutes before demanding more food and drink from the kitchen. Half of the giantess cooks went underground, and half ran out to the north. They would probably try to make it the the hall eventually.
I'm guessing a group will be sent out to see where the kitchen staff has got to, say, half the ogre servents and 4 or so giants(they probably don't want to leave the party). The PC might have one or two more encounters before the fort goes on 'full alert', ie the chieften realizes his sentries have been killed, there are dangerous intruders about, etc.
My question is, how do the giants react? Block the exits, scatter and do a room to room search, barracade the great hall, what? It seems like fighting in the hallways favor the PCs. I wonder if they should try to force the PCs in the the great hall and press them from 2 sides.
Looking forward to hearing people's tactics.
So the players have entered the Steading! After the obligitory druidic flyby, and some debating over the entry point, they decided to go in the front entrance when clairvoyance revealed the snoozing guards. They surprised me in not staging a frontal assault when they discoved the great hall. This party is highly optimized against giants(with a gnome and dwarf in plate mail, and a ranger with giant favored enemy) but they realized(probably correctly) that that mass of giants was too much for them.
The players went through the west side of the building, encountering mostly empty rooms and one wandering hill giant. Then they reached the kitchen, engaging in their first real fight but driving the staff off quite quickly. The cooks stattered in two different directions, but did not make it to the great hall to warn the chieftan. The party also steered clear of the main hall, instead continuing to the north and discovering the ogre quarters. 5 orges were hardly a match for this pumped up party. Thus ended the session.
So what next? I figure the giants partying in the main hall will only wait a few minutes before demanding more food and drink from the kitchen. Half of the giantess cooks went underground, and half ran out to the north. They would probably try to make it the the hall eventually.
I'm guessing a group will be sent out to see where the kitchen staff has got to, say, half the ogre servents and 4 or so giants(they probably don't want to leave the party). The PC might have one or two more encounters before the fort goes on 'full alert', ie the chieften realizes his sentries have been killed, there are dangerous intruders about, etc.
My question is, how do the giants react? Block the exits, scatter and do a room to room search, barracade the great hall, what? It seems like fighting in the hallways favor the PCs. I wonder if they should try to force the PCs in the the great hall and press them from 2 sides.
Looking forward to hearing people's tactics.
Well, just finding an empty hall probably wouldn't arouse much suspicion. The giantessess who fled down the stairs might get the Keeper but there is no other way up or down that they should be aware of.
The ones who fled north should run into the giant wolfhandler. His instinct might be to get some wolves and check out the situation himself. Otherwise they can go around and back inside through the doors north of the trophy hall then into the Great Hall.
As for fighting in the halls, keep in mind the size of the giants, their reach and their tendency to throw large heavy objects. If the first giant is cautious about closing with the party in a hallway, his fellows behind him would probably not have any trouble pusing him forward like a living shield.
With smaller PCs like dwarves and gnomes the giants might try stepping on them or kicking them like a football!
I doubt the giants would think defensively at first, especially since the PCs are as small as children and some as small as toddlers. They would probably organize a search and send for the wolves. Once they found the party you can count on them trying to box them in. If the party proves too dangerous for close combat then count on the giants fetching their throwing hammers, spears and javilins, or anything large and heavy to toss at the PCs.
They might even try blankets or fur hides to try and capture the PCs. Nets too if you think they have them (they might since they captured orcs for slaves).
Years later when we'd improved our play, this module was ran again. Replaying was just as much fun as the first time because we planned better.
I've only played the G modules as 1st AD&D modules - but several times. They are hack and slash oriented but the smart party will try to avoid slugging matchs with the whole hall full of gainst if possible. We had a small (for our AD&D groups at the time) seven PC's with the average level being around 10 to 14. IIRC the hall was big enough to safely use the heavy artillery. Used a wizard eye to recon the situation, then decided on a sneak attack. Lucky for us we got complete surprise, in part because we'd been careful not to raise the alarm. The parties Magic User (12th level) and Illustionist (14th), worked in tandem to hit gaints with Fireballs and Spectral Force Fireballs. These were the good old days when the casters level determined the size the fireball/lighting bolt (14th level 14d6 if save failed) etc. Our group quickly found even with surprise on our side and pre-empting by the MU and Ill we had our hands full. It was touch and go with several PC's in the negatives and one dead by the time it was over. In the end the magic user and illusionist won inititive and killed the wounded chief with a pair of well timed and well rolled magic missles. 6-d4+1 and 7-4d+1. It was a harrowing experience. In hindsight, the whole party could have ended up a TPK.
Years later when we'd improved our play, this module was ran again. Replaying was just as much fun as the first time because we planned better.
Different DM's different styles, but the only way I see G1 as hack and slash is if the PCs try to go toe-to-toe with the giants and end up getting slaughtered.
The module is designed for a party who's average level is 9th (in 1st edition) so a 12th level MU and 14th level Ilu are packing considerably more firepower than the giants were set to contend with.
Next I anticipate a fight with the whip wielding wolf keeper and his pet. Sure, I could bring in all the wolves, but I don't think its escalated to that yet. I figure one of the cooks ran to the room with the maids and told the wolf keeper there were intruders. Not knowing the extend of the thread he just takes his favorite wolf to go sniff them out(probably just thinking it's drunk ogres or something).
Then the first group from the hall comes out, most likely three giants. From there it begins to look like the "burly brawl" from the Matrix as I pile on more and more giants, and get to use all sorts of fun tactics like bull rush, overrun, grapple, sunder, etc. as the giants throw their weight around. Will the party make a stand? Engage in a running battle? Head for the dungeon? (probably a mistake, unless they can quickly start a rebellion). Or hightail it out of the steading altogether?
Who knows? While this party is exercising more caution lately, they've never really run from a fight before once it gets going.
Next session this Saturday.
Now I need to decide on the aftermath. Do the remaining giants head for the hills or hide out in the dungeon? What about the giantesses and the younglings? Do the rebel orcs begin their revolt or wait for the PCs? Chief Nosra has a massive amount of treasure stashed in the dungeon, is there a mad grab for that? How do the fire giants in the smithy react?
The party needs to rest, so the remaining giants have time to plan their defense. What do you think should happen next?
I'm also interested in hearing stories about the dungeon level; the manticores, the carrion crawlers, the weird temple, etc.
As for the hill giants that fled, if one of them has the will and charisma, then they seem likely to attempt to secure the steading unless their fear is so great that they instead choose to seek succor from a neighboring tribe's steading.
I'm unclear who controls the great hall and surface of the steading. Did the PCs retreat to a nearby base camp, or did you end the session with them triumphant in the great hall?
I think I like the idea of the fire giants leaving. I don't know why they'd want a big wooden fort with a bunch of hill giants. And I'd kind of like to save them for their own module.
The remaining hill giants were not the most bold of their bunch; those stepped up and got killed by the party. I'm thinking they will arm themselves from the armory and head for the dungeon. There one of them can operate the manticore trap(it wasn't specified who did this in the module).
Basically I want to have some realistic consequences from the attack, but still preserve the basic structure of the dungeon level. I don't want to get bogged down in the PC's running down every ogre servent and giant teenager.
of course, if the PC's start an orc slave revolt the orc's might win and start up an orc encampment there too.
http://www.hp3000.empireclassic.com/fiction/zavoda/nosnras_saga.html
or here:
http://www.harvestersheroes.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=186
more fiction from the Greytalk list:
http://www.hp3000.empireclassic.com/fiction.html
(Sadly missing the castle greyhawk summer fiction which was a blast!)
The military will come eventually, but I like for the PCs to be the primary actors in adventure, they shouldn't expect help from the cavalry. Adventurers are hired to perform tasks the government is either unwilling or unable to do.
have the PC's move on, the local constabulary gets their clock cleaned ... and now there's a merc/hill giant adv group on the PC's trail.
revenge is dish best served with multiple d20s!
local knights as mop up, sounds good ...
have the PC's move on, the local constabulary gets their clock cleaned ... and now there's a merc/hill giant adv group on the PC's trail.
revenge is dish best served with multiple d20s!
Yeah, I kind of like this philosophy. Though some of the hill giants and ogres ran, they may get their morale back with the help of the fire giants. The fire giants may not want to run the steading themselves, but I'm sure they don't want to go back to King Snurre with news of defeat. Have the fire giants organize some of the remaining giants and ogres as a revenge party.
Yeah, I kind of like this philosophy. Though some of the hill giants and ogres ran, they may get their morale back with the help of the fire giants. The fire giants may not want to run the steading themselves, but I'm sure they don't want to go back to King Snurre with news of defeat. Have the fire giants organize some of the remaining giants and ogres as a revenge party.
Ogre Magi work good for bounty hunters too
will they run in fear? ... get pumped to get even? ... who knows
Mike
Now I have to prepare for the orc rebels and the troglodytes. The PCs freed the orcs in the cellblock, however 2 of the PCs hold the opinion that the only good orc is a dead orc. So there may be some conflict when 100 or so orcs want to head for the hills. And the troglodytes, while loathsome creatures, are just doing their cave dwelling thing.
I'm keeping the fire giants in place. I figure as Lawful creatures they'll continue their assignment making arms and armor. The fact that they weren't at the party shows they're workaholics. So Chief Nosra had some trouble, what do they care? There will be reinforcements soon enough, and they'll need equipment.
So I'm looking for tips on the caves section, the manticore trap, and the fire giants.