Mishakal's Militancy - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Mishakal's Militancy

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dragonhelm
Oct 19, 2004 9:34:19 I wanted to start a new thread for this topic, so as to not distract from the Citadel PrC thread.

ferratus wrote:
#2
zombiegleemax
Oct 19, 2004 9:42:20 Just finished A&A the other day and I read that she is definately on the offense when it comes to Chemosh and his old school followers. I like the fact that she has stepped up to the plate, unlike the evil pantheon fighting amonst themselves or the neutral pantheon just sitting back wringing their hands hoping nothing will upset their precious balance. I don't want to see her become a militant god, but I'd like to see her more aggressive and proacitve and I think that's what we're seeing. Something the gods of good should have millena ago is to be proactive, rather than reactive, towards evil.
#3
luis_de_pippo
Oct 19, 2004 15:02:41 Mishakal used to have, before the First Cataclysm, a priest in nearly every community on Ansalon. That way she was aware of threats that the other gods ignored or did not know. While she was not very proactive, she was hardly reactive but left the "cleaning duties" to the other gods, notably Paladine and Kiri-Jolith.

In this age her presence is once again felt in lots of communities. This means that she has one of the biggest informant networks of Ansalon.

Will she leave her position as a watcher? I doubt it, but she may work a bit more directly than she used to.
#4
zombiegleemax
Oct 19, 2004 21:45:00 Now that she is the de facto leader of the Gods of Light, she will probably feel the need to be more active. That's really not that surprising. Everyone should bear in mind that she was willing to have Goldmoon act on her behalf to destroy the black dragon of Xak Tsaroth - hardly a strictly pacifistic act.

So the precedent is that Mishakal is willing to take action, especially against "monstrous" evils, and to set her clerics to such work. Chemosh's undead undoubtedly top the list, and I doubt that even the most pacifistic cleric would feel at all guilty about sending such creatures on to the next life.

Kiri-Jolith will, of course, be the primary warrior god of Good, especially now that his father is gone. His reverence among the Knights of Solamnia will grow. Rangers will, as many long have, be prone to worshipping Habbakuk, who is also likely to be more miltant because of the damage inflicted by the Dragon Overlords to the natural order of Krynn.

Mishakal's militancy will probably take the form of acting against montsers, and possibly against more conventional people who abuse others, like Knights of Neraka. But given her general popularity, she is probably more likely to turn public opinion against oppressive figures and trigger uprisings (supported by the warriors of her sons) rather than have her own clergy taking up arms full-time. Her greatest power is her ability to bring hope to people, and that is her greatest threat to Evil.
#5
zombiegleemax
Oct 19, 2004 22:22:43
I wanted to start a new thread for this topic, so as to not distract from the Citadel PrC thread.

The idea of Mishakal becoming more militant is a bit of an odd one at first glance, but one that I think makes a certain amount of sense. I don’t think that her militancy takes away from Kiri-Jolith, though. He’s still the god of divine wrath.

I look at Mishakal as not only a healer, but a mother-figure amongst the gods of good. Her children are the people of Ansalon. Imagine her point of view, where she sees the sacrifice of her husband, Paladine, who has always served as a guardian of what is good and just in the world. Imagine her sorrow at seeing a world that has gone through so much pain when Krynn was stolen by Takhisis.

Mishakal knows that she can no longer sit on the sidelines, especially with the loss of Paladine. She knows that inaction can often lead to more pain and suffering than if action was taken.

So that’s what I see her doing right now. She’s taking action in order to cut down on the suffering. She’s trying to protect her children, the people of Krynn, from the ills of the world. She is acting ahead of time so that she’s not healing after the fact.

Without her husband around it seems only natural that the highest goddess of light feels that she must take on his responsibilities. I'd say its a little more determination than militancy.
#6
quentingeorge
Oct 20, 2004 1:24:56 Additonally, she's the only good-aligned greater god left.

Krynn's surviving greater gods are Gilean, Reorx, Sargonnas and Mishakal...
#7
zombiegleemax
Oct 20, 2004 7:43:45 Though I think it very likely that one god from each of the pantheons of Light and Dark will move up to greater god status as the role becomes more prominent. My current bets are Kiri-Jolith and Chemosh, although I wouldn't rule out Zeboim as just yet.
#8
darthsylver
Oct 20, 2004 9:08:08 Personally I do not see any gods being raised to greater deity status. It would be better in the long run for the gods of light and the gods of darkness, that in order to keep the balance that Gilean should step down leaving only 1 greater god for neutrality. While we constantly hear that the gods of neutrality seek balance the only god we really see doing or saying anything about it is gilean.

Reorx is more concernced about his dwarves than anything else and will never leave them. Sargonnas would gladly see Gilean removed from the picture than to have to deal with a new god. Also gilean has a place he can go to as well, back to being Astinus. As one brother has made the sacifice to maintain the balance it is only fair (and equal) that the other brother (gilean) make the same sacrifice.

I see Sargonnas having a better chance making this arguement (for gilean to step down) rather than having 2 new gods created.
#9
ferratus
Oct 20, 2004 10:49:00 I could see Mishakal having a military order of undead slayers, if we emphasize her connection to healing energy (which damages undead in 3e).
It would work if Mishakal opposes Morgion on Disease and Chemosh on death, while Majere opposes Chemosh on fear of death and Morgion on Madness.

However, I'm not going to go along with Kiri-Jolith being ignored while Mishakal does the stuff that Kiri-Jolith was literally born to do. He is the god of defending the community and crusading against evil. Mishakal is the mother figure, the healer, and so forth. I wouldn't care if Paladine had been the war diety and Kiri-Jolith didn't exist... but its just a bad idea to have Mishakal take over all the duties of the good pantheon the way Paladine used to. I thought we were going to use the rest of the dieties now. What happened to that idea?
#10
Sysane
Oct 20, 2004 11:06:31 I could see two new gods being introduced to both the evil and good pantheons. Be it divine children spawned from the coupling of two gods or the elevation or two mortals. I could see the neutral gods pushing for this as well to "maintain the balance".

I think it would breath some new life to the pantheons with having some new blood introduced.
#11
zombiegleemax
Oct 21, 2004 21:36:51
I could see two new gods being introduced to both the evil and good pantheons. Be it divine children spawned from the coupling of two gods or the elevation or two mortals. I could see the neutral gods pushing for this as well to "maintain the balance".

I think it would breath some new life to the pantheons with having some new blood introduced.

I could see that happening in the sense that it is feasible, but not likely nor wanted. Rather than introduce new gods I, for one, would like to see the rest of the gods "fleshed out" and brought more into the spotlight. The 4th age post WotL and pre catacylsm ages were pretty much all about the struggle of good and evil with Paladine leading and representing good and Takhisis evil. It got old. Now they are gone and it's time for the rest of the gods to come into their own instead of living under the shadows of their progenators/leaders.

We are seeing that the gods of evil are definately taking advantage of this power/leadership vaccuum. Sargonnas is moving his minotaurs onto the continent, Chemosh has his minnions on the move, Nuitari is plotting on his own, and Zeboim we see is planning a move as well. It would be nice to see the gods of light start taking a more proactive stance to keeping evil in check, rather than letting the scales get tipped all out of wack yet once again. Each of the good gods need to start doing more than waiting and take action.
#12
zombiegleemax
Oct 24, 2004 1:33:28
Reorx is more concernced about his dwarves than anything else and will never leave them. .

Uh, well, I do believe that Reorx did indeed leave them once before, in the first Cataclysm. And I am sure there were many a dwarf whom thought Reorx had left them even before that, when the KingPriest was turning his eyre against the followers of the neutral gods.
#13
ravinray
Oct 24, 2004 9:55:31
We are seeing that the gods of evil are definately taking advantage of this power/leadership vaccuum... Nuitari is plotting on his own...

Okay, I haven't read A&A yet save for the excerpt on Chemosh (the hardbound's a tad expensive for me), but wouldn't Nuitari's cousins be aware of or least be wary of his movements? Then again, in The Silken Threads novella he did manage to recruit Akar without Solinari and Lunitari apparently knowing. And there was zippo from them when Black Robes were used to corrupt the good dragon eggs, right?
#14
zombiegleemax
Oct 25, 2004 0:18:58
Okay, I haven't read A&A yet save for the excerpt on Chemosh (the hardbound's a tad expensive for me), but wouldn't Nuitari's cousins be aware of or least be wary of his movements? Then again, in The Silken Threads novella he did manage to recruit Akar without Solinari and Lunitari apparently knowing. And there was zippo from them when Black Robes were used to corrupt the good dragon eggs, right?

Let's just say he's being very careful and trying to make sure he'll never be taken by suprise again. A&A is very good and worth reading just for the bit on Nuitari and Zeboim, two gods we see very little of in past works. I just hope we see more of Majere in the next two books.
#15
darthsylver
Oct 25, 2004 4:31:37
Originally Posted by darthsylver

Reorx is more concernced about his dwarves than anything else and will never leave them. .

Originally Posted by DMJoeSolarte

Uh, well, I do believe that Reorx did indeed leave them once before, in the first Cataclysm. And I am sure there were many a dwarf whom thought Reorx had left them even before that, when the KingPriest was turning his eyre against the followers of the neutral gods.

What I meant was, Reorx is more dedicated to his dwarves than anything gilean seems to be dedicated to. Yes two more greater gods (1 good, 1 evil) would even out the pantheon but then neutrality never really makes any kind of sacrifice as the good and evil gods did.

If they did add two new gods to tha pantheon I would rather see Kiri-Jolith and Hiddukel elevated to greater deity status and two gods added as lesser deities. In my opinion rather than elevating two mortals to deity status SOV press should pick two dragons and have them replace the lost gods. For instance Sable and Frost (I think that is the name) are the only Dragon overlords worth mentioning. Have them fight it out and elevate the winner (almost certainly Sable) to deity status. As for the good deity you might elevate that bronze dragon (the one from Sanction) or that Good Dragon overlord to deity status. You might even elevate mirror to deity status. He would serve as both the deity for the draconic races as well as the elves, he was last seen with Odila Windlass with the intention of helping the elves rid Silvanesti of the Minotaurs.

I mean the draconians are now a fully functioning race and they need a patron deity as well as the rest of the other races.

I understand that this does go a little to left field (gold and red usually beign the most powerful of dragons) but Krynn has never conformed to the normal way of D&D.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dragonhelm Oct 19, 2004 9:34:19	I wanted to start a new thread for this topic, so as to not distract from the Citadel PrC thread. ferratus wrote:
#2 zombiegleemax Oct 19, 2004 9:42:20	Just finished A&A the other day and I read that she is definately on the offense when it comes to Chemosh and his old school followers. I like the fact that she has stepped up to the plate, unlike the evil pantheon fighting amonst themselves or the neutral pantheon just sitting back wringing their hands hoping nothing will upset their precious balance. I don't want to see her become a militant god, but I'd like to see her more aggressive and proacitve and I think that's what we're seeing. Something the gods of good should have millena ago is to be proactive, rather than reactive, towards evil.
#3 luis_de_pippo Oct 19, 2004 15:02:41	Mishakal used to have, before the First Cataclysm, a priest in nearly every community on Ansalon. That way she was aware of threats that the other gods ignored or did not know. While she was not very proactive, she was hardly reactive but left the "cleaning duties" to the other gods, notably Paladine and Kiri-Jolith. In this age her presence is once again felt in lots of communities. This means that she has one of the biggest informant networks of Ansalon. Will she leave her position as a watcher? I doubt it, but she may work a bit more directly than she used to.
#4 zombiegleemax Oct 19, 2004 21:45:00	Now that she is the de facto leader of the Gods of Light, she will probably feel the need to be more active. That's really not that surprising. Everyone should bear in mind that she was willing to have Goldmoon act on her behalf to destroy the black dragon of Xak Tsaroth - hardly a strictly pacifistic act. So the precedent is that Mishakal is willing to take action, especially against "monstrous" evils, and to set her clerics to such work. Chemosh's undead undoubtedly top the list, and I doubt that even the most pacifistic cleric would feel at all guilty about sending such creatures on to the next life. Kiri-Jolith will, of course, be the primary warrior god of Good, especially now that his father is gone. His reverence among the Knights of Solamnia will grow. Rangers will, as many long have, be prone to worshipping Habbakuk, who is also likely to be more miltant because of the damage inflicted by the Dragon Overlords to the natural order of Krynn. Mishakal's militancy will probably take the form of acting against montsers, and possibly against more conventional people who abuse others, like Knights of Neraka. But given her general popularity, she is probably more likely to turn public opinion against oppressive figures and trigger uprisings (supported by the warriors of her sons) rather than have her own clergy taking up arms full-time. Her greatest power is her ability to bring hope to people, and that is her greatest threat to Evil.
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 19, 2004 22:22:43	I wanted to start a new thread for this topic, so as to not distract from the Citadel PrC thread. The idea of Mishakal becoming more militant is a bit of an odd one at first glance, but one that I think makes a certain amount of sense. I don’t think that her militancy takes away from Kiri-Jolith, though. He’s still the god of divine wrath. I look at Mishakal as not only a healer, but a mother-figure amongst the gods of good. Her children are the people of Ansalon. Imagine her point of view, where she sees the sacrifice of her husband, Paladine, who has always served as a guardian of what is good and just in the world. Imagine her sorrow at seeing a world that has gone through so much pain when Krynn was stolen by Takhisis. Mishakal knows that she can no longer sit on the sidelines, especially with the loss of Paladine. She knows that inaction can often lead to more pain and suffering than if action was taken. So that’s what I see her doing right now. She’s taking action in order to cut down on the suffering. She’s trying to protect her children, the people of Krynn, from the ills of the world. She is acting ahead of time so that she’s not healing after the fact. Without her husband around it seems only natural that the highest goddess of light feels that she must take on his responsibilities. I'd say its a little more determination than militancy.
#6 quentingeorge Oct 20, 2004 1:24:56	Additonally, she's the only good-aligned greater god left. Krynn's surviving greater gods are Gilean, Reorx, Sargonnas and Mishakal...
#7 zombiegleemax Oct 20, 2004 7:43:45	Though I think it very likely that one god from each of the pantheons of Light and Dark will move up to greater god status as the role becomes more prominent. My current bets are Kiri-Jolith and Chemosh, although I wouldn't rule out Zeboim as just yet.
#8 darthsylver Oct 20, 2004 9:08:08	Personally I do not see any gods being raised to greater deity status. It would be better in the long run for the gods of light and the gods of darkness, that in order to keep the balance that Gilean should step down leaving only 1 greater god for neutrality. While we constantly hear that the gods of neutrality seek balance the only god we really see doing or saying anything about it is gilean. Reorx is more concernced about his dwarves than anything else and will never leave them. Sargonnas would gladly see Gilean removed from the picture than to have to deal with a new god. Also gilean has a place he can go to as well, back to being Astinus. As one brother has made the sacifice to maintain the balance it is only fair (and equal) that the other brother (gilean) make the same sacrifice. I see Sargonnas having a better chance making this arguement (for gilean to step down) rather than having 2 new gods created.
#9 ferratus Oct 20, 2004 10:49:00	I could see Mishakal having a military order of undead slayers, if we emphasize her connection to healing energy (which damages undead in 3e). It would work if Mishakal opposes Morgion on Disease and Chemosh on death, while Majere opposes Chemosh on fear of death and Morgion on Madness. However, I'm not going to go along with Kiri-Jolith being ignored while Mishakal does the stuff that Kiri-Jolith was literally born to do. He is the god of defending the community and crusading against evil. Mishakal is the mother figure, the healer, and so forth. I wouldn't care if Paladine had been the war diety and Kiri-Jolith didn't exist... but its just a bad idea to have Mishakal take over all the duties of the good pantheon the way Paladine used to. I thought we were going to use the rest of the dieties now. What happened to that idea?
#10 Sysane Oct 20, 2004 11:06:31	I could see two new gods being introduced to both the evil and good pantheons. Be it divine children spawned from the coupling of two gods or the elevation or two mortals. I could see the neutral gods pushing for this as well to "maintain the balance". I think it would breath some new life to the pantheons with having some new blood introduced.
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 21, 2004 21:36:51	I could see two new gods being introduced to both the evil and good pantheons. Be it divine children spawned from the coupling of two gods or the elevation or two mortals. I could see the neutral gods pushing for this as well to "maintain the balance". I think it would breath some new life to the pantheons with having some new blood introduced. I could see that happening in the sense that it is feasible, but not likely nor wanted. Rather than introduce new gods I, for one, would like to see the rest of the gods "fleshed out" and brought more into the spotlight. The 4th age post WotL and pre catacylsm ages were pretty much all about the struggle of good and evil with Paladine leading and representing good and Takhisis evil. It got old. Now they are gone and it's time for the rest of the gods to come into their own instead of living under the shadows of their progenators/leaders. We are seeing that the gods of evil are definately taking advantage of this power/leadership vaccuum. Sargonnas is moving his minotaurs onto the continent, Chemosh has his minnions on the move, Nuitari is plotting on his own, and Zeboim we see is planning a move as well. It would be nice to see the gods of light start taking a more proactive stance to keeping evil in check, rather than letting the scales get tipped all out of wack yet once again. Each of the good gods need to start doing more than waiting and take action.
#12 zombiegleemax Oct 24, 2004 1:33:28	Reorx is more concernced about his dwarves than anything else and will never leave them. . Uh, well, I do believe that Reorx did indeed leave them once before, in the first Cataclysm. And I am sure there were many a dwarf whom thought Reorx had left them even before that, when the KingPriest was turning his eyre against the followers of the neutral gods.
#13 ravinray Oct 24, 2004 9:55:31	We are seeing that the gods of evil are definately taking advantage of this power/leadership vaccuum... Nuitari is plotting on his own... Okay, I haven't read A&A yet save for the excerpt on Chemosh (the hardbound's a tad expensive for me), but wouldn't Nuitari's cousins be aware of or least be wary of his movements? Then again, in The Silken Threads novella he did manage to recruit Akar without Solinari and Lunitari apparently knowing. And there was zippo from them when Black Robes were used to corrupt the good dragon eggs, right?
#14 zombiegleemax Oct 25, 2004 0:18:58	Okay, I haven't read A&A yet save for the excerpt on Chemosh (the hardbound's a tad expensive for me), but wouldn't Nuitari's cousins be aware of or least be wary of his movements? Then again, in The Silken Threads novella he did manage to recruit Akar without Solinari and Lunitari apparently knowing. And there was zippo from them when Black Robes were used to corrupt the good dragon eggs, right? Let's just say he's being very careful and trying to make sure he'll never be taken by suprise again. A&A is very good and worth reading just for the bit on Nuitari and Zeboim, two gods we see very little of in past works. I just hope we see more of Majere in the next two books.
#15 darthsylver Oct 25, 2004 4:31:37	Originally Posted by darthsylver Reorx is more concernced about his dwarves than anything else and will never leave them. . Originally Posted by DMJoeSolarte Uh, well, I do believe that Reorx did indeed leave them once before, in the first Cataclysm. And I am sure there were many a dwarf whom thought Reorx had left them even before that, when the KingPriest was turning his eyre against the followers of the neutral gods. What I meant was, Reorx is more dedicated to his dwarves than anything gilean seems to be dedicated to. Yes two more greater gods (1 good, 1 evil) would even out the pantheon but then neutrality never really makes any kind of sacrifice as the good and evil gods did. If they did add two new gods to tha pantheon I would rather see Kiri-Jolith and Hiddukel elevated to greater deity status and two gods added as lesser deities. In my opinion rather than elevating two mortals to deity status SOV press should pick two dragons and have them replace the lost gods. For instance Sable and Frost (I think that is the name) are the only Dragon overlords worth mentioning. Have them fight it out and elevate the winner (almost certainly Sable) to deity status. As for the good deity you might elevate that bronze dragon (the one from Sanction) or that Good Dragon overlord to deity status. You might even elevate mirror to deity status. He would serve as both the deity for the draconic races as well as the elves, he was last seen with Odila Windlass with the intention of helping the elves rid Silvanesti of the Minotaurs. I mean the draconians are now a fully functioning race and they need a patron deity as well as the rest of the other races. I understand that this does go a little to left field (gold and red usually beign the most powerful of dragons) but Krynn has never conformed to the normal way of D&D.