Monks

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Oct 22, 2004 20:44:33
I am just new to the Dark Sun setting (i only purchased the Revised Campaign setting a two weeks ago) but love it to death. I have downloaded the relevent files for Athas.org and was just wondering if their ever was or has even been any talk about the inclusion of monks in the setting? Obviously they were not in the 2e material when it was published but one of my PC's wishes to play one and i justs wanted to know why they are not included in 3e because their inclusion has been slotted into other setting so why not Dark Sun.

#2

Pennarin

Oct 22, 2004 22:49:56
Hello Sinker!
Welcome to the boards!

For your information, the monk may or may not be in review for inclusion within DS3 (from athas.org). May not because I don't know if the brass has already made its decision a long time ago or not.

What I do know is that one of our board member, NytCrawlr, has two versions of an athasain monk on his website, Crimson Sun, in the Classes/PrCs section: the mystic and the psi-monk.

I suggest you start reading the boards from the oldest page to the newest, you'll learn plenty of new things and satisfy the curiosity for everything Dark Sun that you seem to be developping...
Don't forget to bookmark everything of interest and bring the dead kanks back to life whenever you feel like it!
#3

nytcrawlr

Oct 22, 2004 22:54:25
/me sprays dead kank repellent

#4

objulen

Oct 24, 2004 3:24:54
I don't see why monks shouldn't be included in Dark Sun; monks were not a standard feature in standard D&D as far as I know in 2nd ed, so whether or not they would have been in Dark Sun if monks were standard at the time is up for speculation as far as I know. Personally, I see no reason not to include them -- Dark Sun, which incorperated psionics as a required part of the setting, always seemed to have a flavor of gaining power from the self and self-reliance other settings lacked, and the monk seems to be very similar to psions in this respect IMO.
#5

zombiegleemax

Oct 24, 2004 17:30:18
I'm not big on the inclusion of monks: they seem a little too serene for brutal Athas. Its not that I can't imagine them there (its not much of a stretch to include even paladins if they get their powers from spirits of the land), but they wouldn't likely show up in my game... maybe a tohr-kreen or stranded githyanki, but certainly not native to the tablelands. Even the villichi are very weapon focused.
#6

xlorepdarkhelm_dup

Oct 24, 2004 20:14:45
I don't see why monks shouldn't be included in Dark Sun; monks were not a standard feature in standard D&D as far as I know in 2nd ed, so whether or not they would have been in Dark Sun if monks were standard at the time is up for speculation as far as I know. Personally, I see no reason not to include them -- Dark Sun, which incorperated psionics as a required part of the setting, always seemed to have a flavor of gaining power from the self and self-reliance other settings lacked, and the monk seems to be very similar to psions in this respect IMO.

I'm not big on the inclusion of monks: they seem a little too serene for brutal Athas. Its not that I can't imagine them there (its not much of a stretch to include even paladins if they get their powers from spirits of the land), but they wouldn't likely show up in my game... maybe a tohr-kreen or stranded githyanki, but certainly not native to the tablelands. Even the villichi are very weapon focused.

Actually, it wasn't included due to some balancing issues against the other classes. Remember, the Monk Class from the PHB, is balanced against the other PHB classes, according to what WotC has figured a character should have, in equipment each level, to determine their power. There is a similar issue with Soulknives. Dark Sun has a different composition of weapons and materials, that brings much of the balancing into question - without including anything like restrictions on [arcane] magic. Nytcrawler did a great job with an alternate class, the Psi-Monk, that fits better into the Dark Sun environment (since the abilities are more connected to psionics, rather than to magic like the Monk is in the PHB), and has some balancing factors added in that hopefully will keep them more inline/in-check with the rest of the classes. Personally, I like it a lot. You can include Monks into your campaigns if you want, straight out of the PHB, as many have done - it's not that difficult. Hell, for my own campaigns, I include the Psi-Monk, as well as including Paladins (which are Lawful Evil non-spellcasting characters who are more like a secret police of their respective Sorcerer-Kings), and Sorcerers even (which I basically have it that all Sorcerers can trace their ancestry back to one of the Sorcerer-Kings - something they have inhereted from their Sorcerer-King ancestor - no matter how far removed - has enabled the Sorcerer to have an innate grasp and ability with Arcane magic, however Sorcerers, due to their more chaotic development and frequent lack of a teacher, are far more likely to end up as defilers than preservers). I include all the classes from the XPH as well.
#7

zombiegleemax

Oct 24, 2004 20:43:54
I include ... Sorcerers even (which I basically have it that all Sorcerers can trace their ancestry back to one of the Sorcerer-Kings).

Nibenay's army just got a lot more powerful! Think of all those sons and daughters. And poor, childless Hammanu...
I can totally buy the whole 'blood of a champion' thing, too.
#8

Sysane

Oct 25, 2004 13:34:45
I'm not big on the inclusion of monks: they seem a little too serene for brutal Athas. Its not that I can't imagine them there (its not much of a stretch to include even paladins if they get their powers from spirits of the land), but they wouldn't likely show up in my game... maybe a tohr-kreen or stranded githyanki, but certainly not native to the tablelands. Even the villichi are very weapon focused.

An alternative to Nyt's Psi-monk (which is kick a$$) would be to allow d20 modern feats Combat Martial Arts, Improved Martial Arts, & Advanced Combat Martial Arts. Not nearly as sick as a full blown monk but in balance with DS and an option for players who want an unarmed combat/martial artist character. Works well with most combat oriented classes (i.e. fighter, psychic warrior, etc...) .
#9

the_peacebringer

Oct 25, 2004 13:48:05
I'm not big on the inclusion of monks: they seem a little too serene for brutal Athas.

I don't know, some monks can be freaking brutal to augment their endurance to pain... have you seen Twin warriors with Jet Li. :D

Anyways, it's pretty easy, as a player, to build a psionic monk with the psychic warrior class and all the psionic feats possible... or, of course, use Nyt's psi-monk or mystic classes [showers with praise]. ;)

Felt like sucking up,
PB
#10

nytcrawlr

Oct 25, 2004 15:19:19
An alternative to Nyt's Psi-monk (which is kick a$$) would be to allow d20 modern feats Combat Martial Arts, Improved Martial Arts, & Advanced Combat Martial Arts. Not nearly as sick as a full blown monk but in balance with DS and an option for players who want an unarmed combat/martial artist character. Works well with most combat oriented classes (i.e. fighter, psychic warrior, etc...) .

Well, nice to see that others like my Psi-monk as well, heh.

I was working on something for the martial arts feat tree from D20 Modern and got it cleaned up some but stopped there and didn't go anywhere else with it.

Would still love to develop it into a something bit more though, but that's definately one other way to go if you want martial artists in your DS campaigns.
#11

nytcrawlr

Oct 25, 2004 15:21:30
I don't know, some monks can be freaking brutal to augment their endurance to pain... have you seen Twin warriors with Jet Li. :D

Hmmm, a Jet Li movie I haven't heard about...

/me rushes to add to netflix queue