Adam and Eva

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Oct 30, 2004 7:28:00
In Adam'a wrath, it almost implies that one of the hags was the Eva who was adopted by Mordenheim and Elise. If so, what actually happened that night with Adam and Elise, and who is really to blame? Did Adam know all along that Eva was not what she appeared? And if true, what is this thing Adam seems to have for little girls who are wise beyond their years?
#2

zombiegleemax

Nov 07, 2004 4:25:45
Its been too long since I've read the module but if Madame Eva was involved it suggests (again) that the vistani have a strong interest in keeping the Darklords in RL. In Evil Eye we learn that the most powerful could leave. And we know the Dukkar's have the ability to tear RL appart (Hykosa creates a step by step guide in prophesy to create the grand conjunction, Malochio can just T-port out). The Vistani are the sworn enemies of the Dukkar...seems they want RL to stick around.

-Eric Gorman
#3

malus_black

Nov 07, 2004 4:53:50
HvF, I think Talon is talking about Eva, the adopted daughter of Victor and Elise Mordenheim, not Madame Eva. But I'm afraid I can't help, as I don't have the module.
#4

zombiegleemax

Nov 07, 2004 6:20:23
Not Madame Eva the Vistana. Mordenheim adopts a small girl named Eva to use as a playmate for Adam. The night Adam injures Elise, Eva disappears with Adam holding her bloody nightgown.
The module Adam's wrath implies that one of the hags at the beginning of the adventure is actually Eva. If this is true perhaps she is the one who injured Elise and Adam was just protecting Elise from Eva. Of course that would throw off all of the established reasons for Adam becoming the dark lord of Lamordia.......but it is an interesting twist....one I would like to exploit somehow.
Just what is Adam's relationship with Eva? Did he know she was really a hag? etc. What do you think?
#5

zombiegleemax

Nov 08, 2004 4:32:20
My bad.

I'm projecting here because I've sometimes wondered about a connection between the two... and I do vaguely remember the hags and thinking at one point that the difference between three mysterious hags and three really old Vistani isn't that great outside of their ability in melee.

Yes I think theres a connection between Eva and the Hags. going to have to did the mod out from whever its collecting dust...

-Eric Gorman
#6

rotipher

Nov 08, 2004 10:53:09
How could any of the hags have been there? If Tepest already existed at the time, they couldn't have left their domain to visit Mordenheim (who was still on the Material Plane, IIRC). Nor could they have done so *before* their own domain was created, because up until the hags became darklords, they weren't supernatural creatures at all: they were just three (vicious) peasant women, none of whom could have disguised herself as little Eva.
#7

zombiegleemax

Nov 08, 2004 12:28:30
How could any of the hags have been there? If Tepest already existed at the time, they couldn't have left their domain to visit Mordenheim (who was still on the Material Plane, IIRC).

I believe that these are actualy three different hags, not The Hags of Tepest. There's always two tons of hags running about.
#8

zombiegleemax

Nov 09, 2004 12:16:19
I work on a Navy ship, and the only time I read this site is when I'm deployed and very far from all of my books.....so I have to go on some real old memories.
However, I think I remember this much.....in the beginning of Adam's Wrath, there are three hags who kill all of the players and then give the bodies to Mordenheim. One of those hags I believe is actually named "Eva"! Later, the characters get a second shot at her.....she has polymorphed small animals into the forms of children and imprisoned them in cages.....many of the chidren resemble small blond girls, and I believe it implies that she had taken this form before.....it also implies that she is not on the best of terms with Adam, for some past relationship.........it really implies that she might have been the small blond girl that the Dr. and his ill-fated bride adopted. It doesn't quite come out and say it, but it does infer it.
I've always wondered what others thought about this.......because one possibility is that Adam was wrongly accused from the beginning........it could have been Eva who was the real villain that night in Elises' bedroom!
#9

zombiegleemax

Nov 10, 2004 6:23:45
I never made this connection. Kadra, the Sea Hag, is described in 'Adam's Wrath' as having been 'captured by Adam some years ago. At that time, he was still welcome at Scloss Mordenheim, and she was the most beautiful woman in Ludendorf. Tragically, Adam fell in love with her, but she spurned his advances. After a near fatal battle with him, she managed to escape. Plunging out of a window of the Mordenheim estate, where Adam held her, she dove into the Sea of Sorrows." Some similarities with Eva's supposed demise, but it does state 'woman', not child.
Kadra has a wand of polymorphing that she uses to transform small animals into human children. "In each case, the child resembles the Kadra that existed before Adam's depravities, with long blonde hair and dark, almost ebony eyes glowing with innocence. The sea hag keeps these Kadras imprisoned for herself and her guests. Butchering the children and destroying their beauty gives her great pleasure." The description of the children does match the descriptions we are given of Eva.
My take is that, since the incident with Kadra must have happened before the night Adam 'killed' Eva and brutalized Elise, it is entirely possible that the young orphan Eva was actually an escaped transformed animal of Kadra's.
#10

zombiegleemax

Nov 10, 2004 7:15:09
I never made this connection. Kadra, the Sea Hag, is described in 'Adam's Wrath' as having been 'captured by Adam some years ago. At that time, he was still welcome at Scloss Mordenheim, and she was the most beautiful woman in Ludendorf. Tragically, Adam fell in love with her, but she spurned his advances. After a near fatal battle with him, she managed to escape. Plunging out of a window of the Mordenheim estate, where Adam held her, she dove into the Sea of Sorrows." Some similarities with Eva's supposed demise, but it does state 'woman', not child.
Kadra has a wand of polymorphing that she uses to transform small animals into human children. "In each case, the child resembles the Kadra that existed before Adam's depravities, with long blonde hair and dark, almost ebony eyes glowing with innocence. The sea hag keeps these Kadras imprisoned for herself and her guests. Butchering the children and destroying their beauty gives her great pleasure." The description of the children does match the descriptions we are given of Eva.
My take is that, since the incident with Kadra must have happened before the night Adam 'killed' Eva and brutalized Elise, it is entirely possible that the young orphan Eva was actually an escaped transformed animal of Kadra's.

Yes! That's it....sorry for so many mistakes in my version.
As I was reading what you wrote it occured to me that "Eva" could have survived her fall and grew up to be the hag Kadra......
But I kinda like the idea that maybe "Eva" was not as innocent as first believed.....I know it is completely contrary to everything else that has been written, but it might be interesting if the very innocent girl who was supposed to teach Adam to be a nice guy was secretly twisting his mind the other direction.....or even if Adam was really trying to save Elise from Eva.

I'm not saying I'm set on these ideas.....just something I had thought about when I read those lines in Adam's Wrath.....was wondering if anyone else had thought the same thing.
#11

rotipher

Nov 11, 2004 13:32:43
Or perhaps the hag was a hag all along, and patterned her feigned human appearance on the real (and innocent) Eva's, having observed the little girl in secret before Adam discovered her. She might've been secretly planning to kidnap and eat the little girl; when Adam stumbled upon her, Kedra adopted a guise like a grown-up Eva, the better to play upon the golem's sympathies.

This would work equally well if Kadra started out human (or an immature hag still living like a human, a la the VRGtWitches), but was plotting to abduct the girl for ransom and/or in retaliation for Mordenheim's graverobbing. If she already had the Wand of Polymorphing, she could've adopted the Eva-like appearance in order to trick Adam (who clearly had a soft spot for females who looked like that) into leaving her alone with the child. Too bad for her that Adam responded to her feigned friendliness by locking her up and trying to force her to love him.....
#12

tykus

Nov 17, 2004 13:45:07
There's always two tons of hags running about.

:P So that means there are about......what?...five hags in any given region? :D

Man, I love those smilies. :coolcthul