Kagonesti Illiterate?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

trippinskip

Nov 07, 2004 19:52:13
Does anybody know if the Kagonesti are litterate or not?? I did not see anything in the DLCS...but it would make since in a way, with there life style, if they are illiterate...
#2

wolffenjugend_dup

Nov 07, 2004 21:12:14
I dunno for sure, but I would think so. But I'd also give them a +1 bonus to another skill of their choice as a character flaw, as per Unearthed Arcana. Or you could just treat them like barbarians and say they have to spend skill points to be literate (but then you're changing the balance of the race, albeit slightly).
#3

wolf72

Nov 07, 2004 21:34:04
don't have my book with me, but didn't they use some sort of pictographs or such?

as far as learning other languages, I'd go with illiterate ... so if a Kagonesti learns dwarven, s/he doesn't learn the written language. Just a not-so-well thought out idea.
#4

zombiegleemax

Nov 08, 2004 9:42:56
I'm pretty sure they use pictographs. Pictures that represent words or statements. There may be some who literacy was passed down to, like the head of the tribe. Of course given their proximity to civilzation on Ergoth, I could see them knowing how to read and write common or the regional language.
#5

cam_banks

Nov 08, 2004 10:12:03
Kagonesti can't speak Common automatically - they need to spend a language slot on it (or spend skill points on Speak Language).

Same goes for Silvanesti, apparently. I amended this in my own campaigns.

Cheers,
Cam
#6

sokar

Nov 08, 2004 21:20:28
It would be really hard to make a race illiterate. You have no idea whether a certin member of that race is going to travel to the mainland to get schooling, etc. Also, all CLASSES (except bbn) automatically gain literacy, so by your theroy, when they pick up a class level other then BBn, they become literate. (The same way a BBN gains literacy as soon as he picks up a new class..)
#7

wolffenjugend_dup

Nov 08, 2004 23:16:47
But traveling to the mainland for schooling would be a very exceptional circumstance for a Kagonesti elf. Same for a barbarian.

I don't think making Kagonesti elves illiterate is unrealistic at all. In fact, I think it adds a lot of flavour. Clerics and wizards could be more like shamans and witch doctors, passing down their history through stories and songs rather than the written word.
#8

zombiegleemax

Nov 09, 2004 5:59:03
I personally don't even like the Literacy rules of D&D 3rd edition.

I think most people in Krynn actually ARE illiterate (it still is kind-of-a Middle-Age/medieval world). There probably isn't that much teaching available to the masses (not to mention many races that are primitive).

My own rule is that when character buyes Languages, he/she must buy Read/Write to that language differently (extra point). Now many languages have same alphabet, so if you allready bought one time same literacy you automaticly get it to other languages that use it.
Any illiterate races/classes (barbarian) must spend double that amount skill points.
Beginning you always have native languages and any extra points from Intelligence (which can be used to buy new languages OR Read/Write to native language).
Classes that really NEED literacy (like Wizards) must still buy that Read/Write, but can always do so without questions (and should do it offcourse).

With this rule I can judge that wild Kagonesti player who doesn't have any good explanation or class choise to explain literacy just CAN'T use his/her skill points to buy Read/Write, and may know multiple languages, BUT is not literate to them...
#9

ferratus

Nov 09, 2004 6:28:44
So what about the "barbarians" of Throtyl, or the plains, or Icewall? Why single out the Kagonesti specifically of all classes?

For that matter, if the Kagonesti cannot speak common, how come Nordmaarian tribesmen, Ergothian peasants, or Blode-raised half-ogres can? It isn't like any of them are engaged in trade or wide-ranging adventuring. Kagonesti PC's on the other hand, might. Plus, from a roleplaying standpoint, you cut Kagonesti PC's off from interactions with NPC's. It would be better to do away with a common tongue than to cut only one race away from the system.

Personally, I think if you're going to give a common language to everyone, you should give it to the Kagonesti too. Realistically most of the people in Krynn can't read. PC's (except for the barbarians) have it though because it is too handy not to have. Who didn't take the Non-weapon proficiency Reading/Writing in 1e/2e D&D?

For barbarians in 3e illiteracy is a flavour issue, to show that they come from the outskirts of civilization. To do it by race though, you'd have to specify every culture as either literate or illiterate. Not worth the trouble.
#10

wolffenjugend_dup

Nov 09, 2004 9:01:56
Well, you could easily (and justifiably, IMO) say none of the barbarians (except maybe the sea barbarians) or the kagonesti begin play with literacy. Or peasants for that matter. Most average people have levels in NPC classes, not PC classes, so just say that NPC classes don't receive literacy for free. A pretty simple solution, really.

The question is, do you believe literacy should be commonplace? If so, use the rules as written. If not, then don't. ;)

As for speaking common, just b/c they don't start with it doesn't mean they can't speak it. It just means they need to spend skill points to speak it. If everyone speaks Common then what's the point of having a whole whack of different languages along with a system to apply them? If you have a character that is different than the norm (e.g. you are a Kagonesti that studied on the mainland), that's a great justification for speaking Common or being literate. Just pay the skill points and you're all set.
#11

ferratus

Nov 09, 2004 11:23:01
The question is, do you believe literacy should be commonplace? If so, use the rules as written. If not, then don't. ;)

I beleive anyone who has a PC's wealth starting bonus comes from a literate class, generally. Though you can do a fighter, paladin, or ranger in scrounged up dragonarmour I suppose.

Besides PC classes make up a very small percentage of the general population. Commoners I beleive are illiterate as well.

If you have a character that is different than the norm (e.g. you are a Kagonesti that studied on the mainland), that's a great justification for speaking Common or being literate. Just pay the skill points and you're all set.

So what does a Kagonesti character get for giving up these skill points? Why doesn't a Throtyl barbarian or Ergothian peasant hero have to spend skill points on common?

If a Kagonesti has to spend skill points to have basic interactions with PC's, he should get a +2 skill focus bonus or something. However you still have the problem of why the Kagonesti were singled out from the other non-literate cultures of Ansalon.
#12

wolffenjugend_dup

Nov 09, 2004 12:08:24
So what does a Kagonesti character get for giving up these skill points? Why doesn't a Throtyl barbarian or Ergothian peasant hero have to spend skill points on common?

If a Kagonesti has to spend skill points to have basic interactions with PC's, he should get a +2 skill focus bonus or something. However you still have the problem of why the Kagonesti were singled out from the other non-literate cultures of Ansalon.

A Kagonesti character gets to speak Common or be literate like everybody else. Making a character requires some thought so, as a DM, I'd make sure the player knew in advance the advantages and disadvantages of being a Kagonesti and require them to speak Common. If they have a language slot I'd let them spend it; otherwise they'd need to spend skill points. As for literacy, I'd give a Kagonesti a +1 bonus to a skill of their choice to reflect illiteracy (as per Unearthed Arcana character flaws) or allow them to spend skill points to be literate. As for a Throtyl barbarian or an Ergothian peasant, both would be illiterate IMC; the former b/c he's a barbarian and the latter b/c he's an NPC class (commoner). Why would they need to spend skill points on Common? Well, they might not have to if they have a language slot open. But if they don't, then they need to spend skill points for the same reason that the average American doesn't speak Spanish or the average Canadian doesn't speak French.

Too many players want to ignore or dismiss the traits that certain races or classes have. "Oh, barbarians are illiterate? Not me, I went to school." Those traits are there for a reason and, for example, making Kagonesti literate and speaking Common makes them like their brethren elves; Kagonesti, IMO, should not be treated like just another elf.

But hey, whatever floats your boat.