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Canon Planescape

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Dec 12, 2004 5:34:52 I was just wondering what items on this people consider "canon" Planescape and which items they don't:

Product PubYear
Manual of the Planes (1st Edition) 1987
Secrets of the Lamp 1993
Planescape Campaign Setting, boxed set 1994
The Eternal Boundary 1994
Monstrous Compendium, Planescape Appendix 1994
Planes of Chaos Campaign Expansion, boxed set 1994
Well of the World 1994
In the Abyss 1994
The Deva Spark 1994
Fires of Dis 1995
Planes of Conflict Campaign Expansion, boxed set 1995
Harbinger House 1995
Monstrous Compendium, Planescape Appendix II 1995
The Factol's Manifesto 1995
In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil 1995
Planes of Law Campaign Expansion, boxed set 1995
A Player's Primer to the Outlands Audio CD 1995
Hellbound: The Blood War 1996
On Hallowed Ground 1996
Blood Hostages 1996
Abyssal Warriors 1996
Something Wild 1996
Uncaged: Faces of Sigil 1996
A Guide to the Astral Plane 1996
Doors to the Unknown 1996
Pages of Pain 1996
The Planewalker's Handbook 1996
Planar Powers 1997
The Great Modron March 1997
Faces of Evil: The Fiends 1997
Dead Gods 1997
For Duty & Deity 1998
A Paladin In Hell 1998
Guide to Hell 1998
Warriors of Heaven 1998
Monstrous Compendium, Planescape Appendix III 1998
The Inner Planes, Campaign Expansion 1998
Tales from the Infinite Staircase 1998
Faction War (The City of Doors) 1998
A Guide to the Ethereal Plane 1998
Planescape: Torment paperback 1999
Die Vecna Die 2000
Manual of the Planes 2001
Planar Handbook 2004

Also are there any items out there that should be on the list that aren't, etc?
#2
GothicDan
Dec 12, 2004 10:13:45 All of the following except for:

For Duty and Deity
Die Vecna, Die
Manual of the Planes (2001)
Planar Handbook (2004)

I don't think that brief references or manipulations of Planescape material simply for the purpose of a larger, non-Planescape plot really count as Planescape material. But that's just my opinion.
#3
zombiegleemax
Dec 12, 2004 10:50:34 Also, I think the novels (most certainly Pages of Pain) aren't considered canon.
#4
Bedford
Dec 12, 2004 10:53:20 Secrets of the Lamp was included in this list?
#5
kuje31
Dec 12, 2004 12:39:41
Secrets of the Lamp was included in this list?

No thats a Zakhara box set.
#6
Bedford
Dec 12, 2004 12:41:37 I knew it was Al-Qadim, which is why I questioned it on this list. :P
#7
GothicDan
Dec 12, 2004 12:51:45 I think that Pages of Pain might be considered canon. At least, it could be, since it was indeed pointed out in the novel itself that the whole past of the Lady of Pain thing was trick a trick of Poseidon's. If anything, I think the Blood War trilogy would be more likely to be less canon...
#8
thanael
Dec 12, 2004 13:16:34 Dragon Annual 2 with the Altraloth article by Ed Bonny?

Probably other Dragons...
#9
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Dec 12, 2004 19:38:23
I was just wondering what items on this people consider "canon" Planescape and which items they don't:

Blood Hostages 1996
Abyssal Warriors 1996
Something Wild 1996
Pages of Pain 1996
Planar Powers 1997

None of these. Perhaps not bad stories, but they take canon and proceed to kick it around and poop on it. I don't think anyone takes these as canon.

Guide to Hell 1998
Warriors of Heaven 1998

I reject most of the content of these as being spurious and poorly conceived. The Ahriman crud in GtH was forced and contrived. Warriors of Heaven attempted to make Eladrin non-immortal...

Die Vecna Die 2000

... excise the OOC reasoning and keep the events there but mysterious and we can talk. Otherwise it was forced and really ill designed.

Manual of the Planes 2001
Planar Handbook 2004

Only where they don't contradict the original sources. The MotP is my favorite 3e book, but the original material outshines them massively, especially the latter book.
#10
zombiegleemax
Dec 14, 2004 21:52:27 Cool, that seems to be exactly what I was thinking.

I'm thinking of three levels of "canon"; Dark, chant and screed.

Question is Shemeska, do you think that Secrets of the Lamp (considering Planar Handbook referrs to it) should be considered canon in any form, as it was published prior to the Planescape line existing?

I was thinking that any product from outside Planescape and Core settings should be one level down in terms of referential integrity.
#11
ripvanwormer
Dec 15, 2004 0:07:32
Question is Shemeska, do you think that Secrets of the Lamp (considering Planar Handbook referrs to it) should be considered canon in any form, as it was published prior to the Planescape line existing?

I think it should, since Planescape quotes from it, and is consistent with it. The map of the City of Brass in The Inner Planes (and the Planar Handbook) is based on the one in Secrets of the Lamp. The names of the genie rulers and the other genie capitals are also consistent between Planescape and SotL, except what SotL calls the Court of Ice and Steel is the Citadel of Ice and Steel in TIP. And Wolfgang Baur was also a Planescape designer.

I agree wholeheartedly that things with the Planescape label have precedence over things that don't.

It's academic anyway, since there's very little history in Secrets of the Lamp. Probably the archmage Tzunk's failed attempt to conquer the City of Brass using the Codex of the Infinite Planes is the extent of it, and all we know about the date is that it happened "long ago." There are a few other implied events, like the djinn stealing their Court of Ice and Steel from an evil archomental, but no details.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 12, 2004 5:34:52	I was just wondering what items on this people consider "canon" Planescape and which items they don't: Product PubYear Manual of the Planes (1st Edition) 1987 Secrets of the Lamp 1993 Planescape Campaign Setting, boxed set 1994 The Eternal Boundary 1994 Monstrous Compendium, Planescape Appendix 1994 Planes of Chaos Campaign Expansion, boxed set 1994 Well of the World 1994 In the Abyss 1994 The Deva Spark 1994 Fires of Dis 1995 Planes of Conflict Campaign Expansion, boxed set 1995 Harbinger House 1995 Monstrous Compendium, Planescape Appendix II 1995 The Factol's Manifesto 1995 In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil 1995 Planes of Law Campaign Expansion, boxed set 1995 A Player's Primer to the Outlands Audio CD 1995 Hellbound: The Blood War 1996 On Hallowed Ground 1996 Blood Hostages 1996 Abyssal Warriors 1996 Something Wild 1996 Uncaged: Faces of Sigil 1996 A Guide to the Astral Plane 1996 Doors to the Unknown 1996 Pages of Pain 1996 The Planewalker's Handbook 1996 Planar Powers 1997 The Great Modron March 1997 Faces of Evil: The Fiends 1997 Dead Gods 1997 For Duty & Deity 1998 A Paladin In Hell 1998 Guide to Hell 1998 Warriors of Heaven 1998 Monstrous Compendium, Planescape Appendix III 1998 The Inner Planes, Campaign Expansion 1998 Tales from the Infinite Staircase 1998 Faction War (The City of Doors) 1998 A Guide to the Ethereal Plane 1998 Planescape: Torment paperback 1999 Die Vecna Die 2000 Manual of the Planes 2001 Planar Handbook 2004 Also are there any items out there that should be on the list that aren't, etc?
#2 GothicDan Dec 12, 2004 10:13:45	All of the following except for: For Duty and Deity Die Vecna, Die Manual of the Planes (2001) Planar Handbook (2004) I don't think that brief references or manipulations of Planescape material simply for the purpose of a larger, non-Planescape plot really count as Planescape material. But that's just my opinion.
#3 zombiegleemax Dec 12, 2004 10:50:34	Also, I think the novels (most certainly Pages of Pain) aren't considered canon.
#4 Bedford Dec 12, 2004 10:53:20	Secrets of the Lamp was included in this list?
#5 kuje31 Dec 12, 2004 12:39:41	Secrets of the Lamp was included in this list? No thats a Zakhara box set.
#6 Bedford Dec 12, 2004 12:41:37	I knew it was Al-Qadim, which is why I questioned it on this list. :P
#7 GothicDan Dec 12, 2004 12:51:45	I think that Pages of Pain might be considered canon. At least, it could be, since it was indeed pointed out in the novel itself that the whole past of the Lady of Pain thing was trick a trick of Poseidon's. If anything, I think the Blood War trilogy would be more likely to be less canon...
#8 thanael Dec 12, 2004 13:16:34	Dragon Annual 2 with the Altraloth article by Ed Bonny? Probably other Dragons...
#9 Shemeska_the_Marauder Dec 12, 2004 19:38:23	I was just wondering what items on this people consider "canon" Planescape and which items they don't: Blood Hostages 1996 Abyssal Warriors 1996 Something Wild 1996 Pages of Pain 1996 Planar Powers 1997 None of these. Perhaps not bad stories, but they take canon and proceed to kick it around and poop on it. I don't think anyone takes these as canon. Guide to Hell 1998 Warriors of Heaven 1998 I reject most of the content of these as being spurious and poorly conceived. The Ahriman crud in GtH was forced and contrived. Warriors of Heaven attempted to make Eladrin non-immortal... Die Vecna Die 2000 ... excise the OOC reasoning and keep the events there but mysterious and we can talk. Otherwise it was forced and really ill designed. Manual of the Planes 2001 Planar Handbook 2004 Only where they don't contradict the original sources. The MotP is my favorite 3e book, but the original material outshines them massively, especially the latter book.
#10 zombiegleemax Dec 14, 2004 21:52:27	Cool, that seems to be exactly what I was thinking. I'm thinking of three levels of "canon"; Dark, chant and screed. Question is Shemeska, do you think that Secrets of the Lamp (considering Planar Handbook referrs to it) should be considered canon in any form, as it was published prior to the Planescape line existing? I was thinking that any product from outside Planescape and Core settings should be one level down in terms of referential integrity.
#11 ripvanwormer Dec 15, 2004 0:07:32	Question is Shemeska, do you think that Secrets of the Lamp (considering Planar Handbook referrs to it) should be considered canon in any form, as it was published prior to the Planescape line existing? I think it should, since Planescape quotes from it, and is consistent with it. The map of the City of Brass in The Inner Planes (and the Planar Handbook) is based on the one in Secrets of the Lamp. The names of the genie rulers and the other genie capitals are also consistent between Planescape and SotL, except what SotL calls the Court of Ice and Steel is the Citadel of Ice and Steel in TIP. And Wolfgang Baur was also a Planescape designer. I agree wholeheartedly that things with the Planescape label have precedence over things that don't. It's academic anyway, since there's very little history in Secrets of the Lamp. Probably the archmage Tzunk's failed attempt to conquer the City of Brass using the Codex of the Infinite Planes is the extent of it, and all we know about the date is that it happened "long ago." There are a few other implied events, like the djinn stealing their Court of Ice and Steel from an evil archomental, but no details.