Sun Wizard (Sun Touched) Template

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Sysane

Dec 17, 2004 14:33:41
Here's what I've come up with so far for this template. I have a feeling it will change. Thoughts and comments are welcome.

Sun Wizard (Sun Touched)
A sun wizard's appearance remains the same except that her skin takes on a black coloration and their eyes burn with a crimson glow when in direct sunlight. When the character breaths, wisps of steam can be seen when they exhale. When not in sunlight their appearance returns to the way they looked before becoming sun touched.
Sun wizards speak the languages they knew before becoming sun touched.

Size and Type: Same as base creature.
Hit Dice: Same as base creature.
Speed: Same as base creature.
Armor Class: The base creature’s natural armor bonus improves by +4.
Attack: Same as base creature.
Damage: Same as base creature.
Special Attacks: Same as base creature
Special Qualities: A sun wizard retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below.
Damage Reduction (Su): The sun wizards sun infused body is tough, giving her damage reduction 15/-.

Immovability (Su): The sun wizard is immovable while on the ground. Any creature attempting to physically move the character must succeed on an opposed Strength check, which the sun wizard gains a +20 bonus on the check.

Immunities (Ex): A sun wizard is immune to fire attacks.

Spell Resistance (Ex): The sun wizard gains spell resistance 20.

Sun Magic (Su): The sun wizard can draw energy from the sun in order to fuel their spells. The character can choose whether to utilize plant energy or sun energy when casting spells. Sun energy has no impact on the environment. Spells powered with sun energy function as if cast by a spellcaster of 8 levels higher than the casters actual level.

Abilities: Increase from base creature as follows: Str +6, Con +6, Int +4.
Skills: Same as base creature.
Feats: Sun wizards gain Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration as bonus feats.
Environment: Any, usually same as base creature.
Organization: Same as base creature.
Challenge Rating: Same as base creature + 6.
Treasure: As base creature
Alignment: As base creature.
Advancement: By character class.
Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +10.

Sun Touched
The sun wizard needs to be in sunlight in order to gain the benefits of this template. When not in sunlight the sun wizard looses all the above powers and abilities. These abilities return to the sun wizard whenever exposed to sunlight.
#2

elonarc

Dec 17, 2004 14:38:44
Feats: Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration

You should change this to "Sun Wizards gain Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration as bonus feats."
#3

Sysane

Dec 17, 2004 14:42:20
You should change this to "Sun Wizards gain Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration as bonus feats."

Done
#4

zombiegleemax

Dec 17, 2004 16:17:36
Just one eensy beensy bit. Should have the abilities s long as the sun is above the horizon. in other words, do ont lose abilities when underground or inside a building. Unless they have not seen sunlight at all. Like one who is trapped underground in a maze or something, they will not get the benefits of sun magic. But spend some time in sunlight and they're good for the rest of the daylight. Should stipulate that they need to be in sunlight for even just a fraction of time to make a metaphysical connection with the sun for the day. I'm sorry I'vee had about 6 hours of sleep all week since saturday night, hopefully I'm making sense here. Sadira didn't lose her powers by being inside buildings. Just when she was in the gray, which was a special case. take creative license to not have to deal with the reduction of power when in the gray of something and just have it so that as long as they've spent at least some time in sunlight, that they have their powers for the day until the sun sets again.


other than that, i think it's an awesome template, and i will actually be yoinking it quite yoinkily. kudos!
#5

nytcrawlr

Dec 17, 2004 17:47:49
Yeah, I say make it a maximum of having to be in the sun for 8 hours (basically what it takes to memorize spells, sleep, etc.) in order to be able to go into buildings and such without the sun touching them.

Also mention that this only works as long as the sun has risen and hasn't set yet.

Still think it needs to be an epic template though.
#6

zombiegleemax

Dec 17, 2004 17:58:10
It is well put together, but I think the bonus to caster level should be much higher. After all, this is a template made to put a mage on par with the sorceror-kings. But the template is well balanced, and very well thought out.
#7

zombiegleemax

Dec 17, 2004 20:47:34
Ok, after what felt like an eternity of sleep, not to mention weird dreams where I was actually DMing my dark sun game (currently in yaramuke!), I can try to clear up what I was saying. I think the best way to interpret the sun thingy is that the abilities only funtion so long as the sun is in the sky:: post sunrise to sunset. The abilities kick in once the sun pokes above the horizon and the suntouched is exposed to the first rays of sun, thus establishing a link between the two. Once that has happened, the suntouched remains powered until sunset, at which point the link is severed and they return to normal. Once the link is established, they remain thusly powered even should they leave direct sunlight (by going indoors or underground, etc). However, should they begin the day underground or in absolute darkness, etc, the link is not made and their powers not activated until they first step into the rays of the sun.
#8

zombiegleemax

Dec 17, 2004 21:08:14
Good call, Cap'n Nick!
#9

Pennarin

Dec 17, 2004 23:36:18
I prefer that to the daily 8 hours acclimatation period Nyt proposed.
#10

jaanos

Dec 18, 2004 4:35:23
Hmm... i'd say make it similar to the shadow mage... needs to spend memorisation time in the sun. After that.... maybe the bonus feats only apply when the sun-mage is in the sun? the other stuff, keep after they memorise, but the bonus feats dissapear when they are out of the sun.

Problem with that, and the 8-hour thing is that it means that the sun mage is vunerable until the sun has been up for well over half the daylight hours....

just a few thoughts....

I prefer that to the daily 8 hours acclimatation period Nyt proposed.

#11

zombiegleemax

Dec 18, 2004 6:34:03
The problem I see with the spending 8 hours in the sun is that it makes a sun-touched a bit too much like a sun cleric. A sun cleric should spend their mediatation in the sun. A sun-touched wizard is just using the sun to power their spells. The only thing that should be necessary is being exposed to the rays of the sun to establish a link for the power to flow through once per day. At the end of the daylight, that link is severed until next the sun is up and the link can be re-established. If they have to spend their time memorizing spells and stuff in the daylight, spending 8 hours . . . that would beg the question of "well, ok, my suntouched character just spent 8 hours in sunlight memorizing spells, now that the sun has set just a little bit later you're telling me the spells he prepared in the sun gain no benefit from that?" The 8 hours thing just strikes me as unnecessary. The suntouched ought to gain the benefits as soon as the sun rises above the horizon (and he is exposed to them), and have them last until the sun dips below the horizon, without any 8 hour requirement before they kick in. I don't ever remember Sadira tellin' Rikus and Co. to "hold up, hold up guys . . . I need to sunbathe for a few hours before I can kick butt and take names. Oh, and get me a margarita while i'm working on my tan. Also, be a dear Rikus and rub some lotion on my thighs."


Ok, I'm just a bit drunk and tired, but still, I think I've made my point and surprisingly a number of people agree with me. So uh, yeah.

cheers

nic
#12

Sysane

Dec 18, 2004 10:52:37
I was basing the Sun Magic ability loosly off the Cerulean.

What if we put in a mechanic that a sun wizard retains the power of the template for a number of rounds equal to their caster level (or 1/2 caster level)l when not in sun light? Example; a 25th level wizard would lose the abilities of the Sun Wizard template after 25 rounds of not being in sunlight. This could be changed to minutes as well.

Other powers I think I should add:

A sun wizard without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses heat to deal 1d6+5 points of damage; a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 wizards HD + wizards Int modifier) halves the damage. Sadira used an ability similar to this on Dhojakt and it didn't appear to be a spell.

Energy Substitution: Fire as a bonus feat

Should the caster level increase from +8 to something higher like +10 or more?

Thoughts?
#13

Pennarin

Dec 18, 2004 12:09:11
Ok, I'm just a bit drunk and tired, but still, I think I've made my point and surprisingly a number of people agree with me. So uh, yeah.

cheers

Cap'n Nick doesn't even wait to see if he has people's support, he just states he has!

Well that much alcohol-induced boldness is refreshing and convincing, so he gets my vote!
#14

Sysane

Dec 18, 2004 13:14:11
It is well put together, but I think the bonus to caster level should be much higher. After all, this is a template made to put a mage on par with the sorceror-kings. But the template is well balanced, and very well thought out.

I don't think it was meant to make a wizard on par with SKs as it was more to help close the gap in power between Sadira and a SK.

Sadira in no way was able to go toe-to-toe with a dragon on her own.
#15

Kamelion

Dec 18, 2004 13:52:21
What if we put in a mechanic that a sun wizard retains the power of the template for a number of rounds equal to their caster level (or 1/2 caster level)l when not in sun light? Example; a 25th level wizard would lose the abilities of the Sun Wizard template after 25 rounds of not being in sunlight. This could be changed to minutes as well.

I'd go for this - sounds sensible enough - but I'd make it rounds, not minutes.

A sun wizard without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses heat to deal 1d6+5 points of damage; a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 wizards HD + wizards Int modifier) halves the damage. Sadira used an ability similar to this on Dhojakt and it didn't appear to be a spell.

Also cool. You could scale the damage and make it 1d6+Int modifier, but 1d6+5 seems fine as it is.

Energy Substitution: Fire as a bonus feat.

Does this fit the fluff from Prism Pentad? It's not game-breaking if you go ahead and include it - I'm just wondering what the precedence for it is.

Should the caster level increase from +8 to something higher like +10 or more?
...
I don't think it was meant to make a wizard on par with SKs as it was more to help close the gap in power between Sadira and a SK.
Sadira in no way was able to go toe-to-toe with a dragon on her own.

+8 seems fine to me, but +10 isn't going to blow it out of proportion, if you prefer giving the template more punch.
I agree that the boost need not put the wizard on a par with an SK. As I recall, Sadira's main trump card was to shatter Borys' obsidian spheres, allowing Rikus to stick the Scourge up his nose.

The suntouched ought to gain the benefits as soon as the sun rises above the horizon (and he is exposed to them), and have them last until the sun dips below the horizon, without any 8 hour requirement before they kick in.

Agreed - that's more or less how I recall it from the novels.

"hold up, hold up guys . . . I need to sunbathe for a few hours before I can kick butt and take names. Oh, and get me a margarita while i'm working on my tan. Also, be a dear Rikus and rub some lotion on my thighs."

By far the coolest thing I have read on these boards in a long time! Outstanding image.
#16

Sysane

Dec 18, 2004 14:08:12
I'd go for this - sounds sensible enough - but I'd make it rounds, not minutes..

Cool, but should it be half the casters spell casting level or their full caster level in rounds?

I think I'll only allow this to funtion during the day light hours. The sun wizard only funtions as a normal wizard the moment the sun sets.


Also cool. You could scale the damage and make it 1d6+Int modifier, but 1d6+5 seems fine as it is.

I like the scaling of the Int modifer. I'll use that.

Does this fit the fluff from Prism Pentad? It's not game-breaking if you go ahead and include it - I'm just wondering what the precedence for it is.

She did use a fair amount of fire/sun spells from what I remember. I could be mistaken though.

+8 seems fine to me, but +10 isn't going to blow it out of proportion, if you prefer giving the template more punch

.

I think I'll round it off to +10. It doesn't hurt IMO.
#17

Sysane

Dec 20, 2004 10:58:33
I've revised the template. Enjoy.


Sun Wizard (Sun Touched)

A sun wizards appearance remains the same except that their skin takes on a black coloration and their eyes burn with a crimson glow when in direct sunlight. When the character breaths, wisps of steam can be seen when they exhale. When not in sunlight their appearance returns to the way they looked before becoming sun touched.
Sun wizards speak the languages they knew before their change.

Size and Type: Same as base creature.
Hit Dice: Same as base creature.
Speed: Same as base creature.
Armor Class: The base creature’s natural armor bonus improves by +4.
Attack: A sun wizard has a touch attack that it can use once per round. If the base creature can use weapons, the sun wizard retains this ability. A creature with natural weapons retains those natural weapons. A sun wizard fighting without weapons uses either its touch attack or its primary natural weapon (if it has any). A sun wizard armed with a weapon uses its touch or a weapon, as it desires
Damage: A sun wizard without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses heat to deal 1d6+ sun wizards Int modifier points of damage; a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 sun wizard’s HD + sun wizard’s Int modifier) halves the damage. A sun wizard with natural weapons can use its touch attack or its natural weaponry, as it prefers. If it chooses the latter, it deals 1d6 + Int modifier points of extra damage on one natural weapon attack.
Special Attacks: Same as base creature
Special Qualities: A sun wizard retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below.

Damage Reduction (Su): The sun wizards sun infused body is tough, giving her damage reduction 15/-.

Immovability (Su): The sun wizard is immovable while on the ground. Any creature attempting to physically move the character must succeed on an opposed Strength check, which the sun wizard gains a +20 bonus on the check.

Immunities (Ex): A sun wizard is immune to fire attacks.

Spell Resistance (Ex): The sun wizard gains spell resistance equal to 15 + caster level.

Sun Magic (Su): The sun wizard can draw energy from the sun in order to fuel their spells. The character can choose whether to utilize plant energy or sun energy when casting spells. Sun energy has no impact on the environment. Spells powered with sun energy increase the sun wizard’s caster level by 10 for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables and for caster level checks.

Abilities: Increase from base creature as follows: Str +6, Con +6, Int +4.
Skills: Same as base creature.
Feats: Sun wizards gain Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration as bonus feats.
Environment: Any, usually same as base creature.
Organization: Same as base creature.
Challenge Rating: Same as base creature + 6.
Treasure: As base creature
Alignment: As base creature.
Advancement: By character class.
Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +8.

Sun Touched
The sun wizard needs to be in sunlight in order to gain the benefits of this template. When removed from sunlight the sun wizard looses all the above powers and abilities after a number of rounds equal to the characters caster level. These abilities return the instant the sun wizard is exposed to sunlight. The sun wizard immediately looses all sun touched powers the round after sun set and can not access them again till the following day's sun rise.
#18

zombiegleemax

Dec 20, 2004 11:05:24
I'd like to suggest the spell resistance be something scaleable, like 11+caster level ;)
#19

Sysane

Dec 20, 2004 11:17:40
I'd like to suggest the spell resistance be something scaleable, like 11+caster level ;)

There, I've changed it to:

Spell Resistance (Ex): The sun wizard gains spell resistance equal to 15 + caster level.
#20

zombiegleemax

Dec 20, 2004 13:41:10
I only have one more question. The level adjustment only applies in the daytime, right?
#21

Sysane

Dec 20, 2004 13:50:41
I only have one more question. The level adjustment only applies in the daytime, right?

I think it would apply all the time. If I'm not mistaken, a lycanthrope doesn't lose its level adjustment during the day.
#22

elonarc

Dec 20, 2004 15:00:04
I think it would apply all the time. If I'm not mistaken, a lycanthrope doesn't lose its level adjustment during the day.

Right. The LA already includes such things. But perhaps reducing the LA of the Sun Wizard to +8 because of the daylight issue might be appropriate.
#23

Sysane

Dec 20, 2004 15:10:56
Right. The LA already includes such things. But perhaps reducing the LA of the Sun Wizard to +8 because of the daylight issue might be appropriate.

Good point.

I guess lowering the LA to +8 isn't that much of a huge deal.

Consider it done.
#24

zombiegleemax

Dec 20, 2004 21:22:38
Sysane, excellent work on this whole thing. One last, final thing. I've compared how it stacks up to other templates, most notably the half-(celestial,fiend,dragon) templates, and after careful number crunching, I think the level adjustment for the Suntouched should be around +6. Then , it will be perfect. :D
#25

Sysane

Dec 20, 2004 23:15:13
Sysane, excellent work on this whole thing. One last, final thing. I've compared how it stacks up to other templates, most notably the half-(celestial,fiend,dragon) templates, and after careful number crunching, I think the level adjustment for the Suntouched should be around +6. Then , it will be perfect. :D

I don't know. A +6 seems kind of low balling it. The template is giving a +10 caster level boost without including the other abilities. A vampire is a +8 LA. Which appears to be more powerful? I'm thinking the Sun Wizard.

Thoughts?
#26

zombiegleemax

Dec 20, 2004 23:33:45
hmmmm. Okay, I did some math. The Half Celestial gains 4 more ability points, as well as spell resistance 4 points less than the SW, if you trade the spell-like abilities for the SW's abilites, and factor in that the Half-C has damage reduction of 5 points less than the SW, and a slightly lesser AC bonus, and factor in the Half-C's wings in exchange for the caster level bonus, it really seems almost even. Actually, I'd have to revise my previous statement and say give the SW a level adjustment of maybe 5, or else boost the caster level bonus a little more. Again, just trying to help, and I intend no disrespect for your hard work, Sysane.

P.S. I threw together two Wiz20 characters, 1 vampire and 1 SW, and a friend and I duked it out. The Vampire won, by a very narrow margin. Those slam attacks and bite sealed the deal. Negative levels and blood drain (Con loss) combined with the difficulty of casting spells while getting physically assaulted proved too much )
#27

Pennarin

Dec 20, 2004 23:49:31
How about manifesters attempting to use a telepathy or mind-affecting psionic power requiring line of sight (are there such powers?) on a SW, who readied an action for it, must make a Concentration check against DC? or not be able to succeed?

I remember Sadira doing that to Tithian on the boat before Tithian jumped in the silt to retrieve the Lens: the blue light of her eyes was so brilliant he couldn't concentrate enough on her eyes to attack her psionically.
#28

elonarc

Dec 21, 2004 1:10:07
For the LA discussion: do not forget DR 15/-. This is a very powerful ability.
#29

zombiegleemax

Dec 21, 2004 1:23:11
I can't believe that never registered in my mind, even after the test battle I did.... The SW's damage resistance can't be overcome.....OK, LA of 8 seems reasonable now.
#30

Sysane

Dec 21, 2004 8:23:32
and I intend no disrespect for your hard work, Sysane.

Don't sweat it. Your comments are welcome ;)
#31

nytcrawlr

Dec 21, 2004 16:26:33
Don't sweat it. Your comments are welcome ;)

So is there a final version now?

I wouldn't mind taking a gander.
#32

Sysane

Dec 21, 2004 21:16:24
So is there a final version now?

I wouldn't mind taking a gander.

This would seem to be the finished version:

Sun Wizard (Sun Touched)

A sun wizards appearance remains the same except that their skin takes on a black coloration and their eyes burn with a crimson glow when in direct sunlight. When the character breaths, wisps of steam can be seen when they exhale. When not in sunlight their appearance returns to the way they looked before becoming sun touched.
Sun wizards speak the languages they knew before their change.

Size and Type: Same as base creature.
Hit Dice: Same as base creature.
Speed: Same as base creature.
Armor Class: The base creature’s natural armor bonus improves by +4.
Attack: A sun wizard has a touch attack that it can use once per round. If the base creature can use weapons, the sun wizard retains this ability. A creature with natural weapons retains those natural weapons. A sun wizard fighting without weapons uses either its touch attack or its primary natural weapon (if it has any). A sun wizard armed with a weapon uses its touch or a weapon, as it desires
Damage: A sun wizard without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses heat to deal 1d6+ sun wizards Int modifier points of damage; a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 sun wizard’s HD + sun wizard’s Int modifier) halves the damage. A sun wizard with natural weapons can use its touch attack or its natural weaponry, as it prefers. If it chooses the latter, it deals 1d6 + Int modifier points of extra damage on one natural weapon attack.
Special Attacks: Same as base creature
Special Qualities: A sun wizard retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below.

Damage Reduction (Su): The sun wizards sun infused body is tough, giving her damage reduction 15/-.

Immovability (Su): The sun wizard is immovable while on the ground. Any creature attempting to physically move the character must succeed on an opposed Strength check, which the sun wizard gains a +20 bonus on the check.

Immunities (Ex): A sun wizard is immune to cold and fire attacks.

Spell Resistance (Ex): The sun wizard gains spell resistance equal to 15 + the sun wizard's HD.

Sun Magic (Su): The sun wizard can draw energy from the sun in order to fuel their spells. The character can choose whether to utilize plant energy or sun energy when casting spells. Sun energy has no impact on the environment. Spells powered with sun energy increase the sun wizard’s caster level by 10 for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables and for caster level checks.

Abilities: Increase from base creature as follows: Str +6, Con +6, Int +4.
Skills: Same as base creature.
Feats: Sun wizards gain Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration as bonus feats.
Environment: Any, usually same as base creature.
Organization: Same as base creature.
Challenge Rating: Same as base creature + 6.
Treasure: As base creature
Alignment: As base creature.
Advancement: By character class.
Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +8.

Sun Touched
The sun wizard needs to be in sunlight in order to gain the benefits of this template. When removed from sunlight the sun wizard looses all the above powers and abilities after a number of rounds equal to the characters caster level. These abilities return the instant the sun wizard is exposed to sunlight. The sun wizard immediately looses all sun touched powers the round after sun set and can not access them again till the following day's sun rise.
#33

nytcrawlr

Dec 21, 2004 21:19:31
Looks good.

What about heat immunity or some resistance though?

I think that's still considered seperate from fire in 3.5 and it makes sense that she at least has some sort of resistance even if it's just 5.
#34

Sysane

Dec 21, 2004 21:33:28
Looks good.

Thanks :D

What about heat immunity or some resistance though?

I think that's still considered seperate from fire in 3.5 and it make sense that she at least has some sort of resistance even if it's just 5

Hmmmm, I'm looking thru the 3.5 DMG and I don't see anything on heat resistance/immunity. All its states on heat is "Heat Dangers". I'd kind of assume that the fire immunity would cover that. I could be wrong. I'd say it was a DM judgement call.
#35

nytcrawlr

Dec 21, 2004 21:35:20
Hmmmm, I'm looking thru the 3.5 DMG and I don't see anything on heat resistance/immunity. All its states on heat is "Heat Dangers". I'd kind of assume that the fire immunity would cover that. I could be wrong. I'd say it was a DM judgement call.

Odd, could have sworn that heat was treated seperately from fire.

Ah well.
#36

Pennarin

Dec 21, 2004 22:21:40
I think a simple "resistance to fire 1" is enough to resist the hot temperature of weather.
#37

Sysane

Dec 22, 2004 9:12:57
I think a simple "resistance to fire 1" is enough to resist the hot temperature of weather.

Thats what I was thinking as well.
#38

nytcrawlr

Dec 22, 2004 14:08:24
I think a simple "resistance to fire 1" is enough to resist the hot temperature of weather.

That's not what I had in mind, but yeah I can agree with that.
#39

jon_oracle_of_athas

Dec 22, 2004 16:24:04
Spell Resistance (Ex): The sun wizard gains spell resistance equal to 15 + caster level.

I'd make this 15 + HD unless you deem spell resistance to be a function of experience with using magic. Just my personal opinion.
#40

nytcrawlr

Dec 22, 2004 16:32:06
I'd make this 15 + HD unless you deem spell resistance to be a function of experience with using magic. Just my personal opinion.

Not to mention that that is usually how SR is done.

Good catch.
#41

jon_oracle_of_athas

Dec 23, 2004 5:36:21
Not to mention that that is usually how SR is done.

Which was my primary reason.
#42

jaanos

Dec 23, 2004 5:51:31
Any thought to how sun wizards memorise spells? Sadira has no spells left at all upon entry to the pristine tower, then comes out able to cast spells.

Something to think about.
#43

Sysane

Dec 23, 2004 7:07:15
I'd make this 15 + HD unless you deem spell resistance to be a function of experience with using magic. Just my personal opinion.

My thought process was that this is primarily an arcane spellcaster template. Why tie a power to non-spellcaster levels?

But if people think it should be tied to HD and not caster level I'd be willing to change it.
#44

Sysane

Dec 23, 2004 7:11:26
Any thought to how sun wizards memorise spells? Sadira has no spells left at all upon entry to the pristine tower, then comes out able to cast spells.

Something to think about.

I'd say that was just for effect in the novel. If I tied every little thing she did in the novels to a power or ability in the template, I'd have a three page write up.
#45

jaanos

Dec 23, 2004 17:08:40
True. Maybe the ability to recall (1) spell of thier choice per day, provided they have the slot available to cast it?

I'd say that was just for effect in the novel. If I tied every little thing she did in the novels to a power or ability in the template, I'd have a three page write up.

#46

Pennarin

Dec 23, 2004 22:30:44
How about manifesters attempting to use a telepathy or mind-affecting psionic power requiring line of sight (are there such powers?) on a SW, who readied an action for it, must make a Concentration check against DC? or not be able to succeed?

I remember Sadira doing that to Tithian on the boat before Tithian jumped in the silt to retrieve the Lens: the blue light of her eyes was so brilliant he couldn't concentrate enough on her eyes to attack her psionically.

Have you considered this Sysane?
#47

Pennarin

Dec 23, 2004 22:40:49
Immunities (Ex): A sun wizard is immune to fire attacks.

This is very nice, but what about the other set of powers Sadira has and that no one seems to have considered?
She is very much like a shadow giant: dark skin, wisps of black mist seeps from her mouth, color from her eyes and mouth, can voyage in the Black (does she need a spell?) without being affected by the cold.

Also, when you say she keeps her powers for 1 round (6 seconds) after sundown, well you could add she can instead choose to expel the sun-energy in her in the form of a black mist, like in the novel when she kills Dhojakt. The effect would be the same as the effect from the Preservers & Defilers spell touch the Black.
#48

Sysane

Dec 24, 2004 7:53:25
Have you considered this Sysane?

I have, but as I told Jaanos, if I tried to link every thing Sadira did in PP to the template I'd have a several page write up on a dozen abilities.
#49

Sysane

Dec 24, 2004 7:55:44
This is very nice, but what about the other set of powers Sadira has and that no one seems to have considered?
She is very much like a shadow giant: dark skin, wisps of black mist seeps from her mouth, color from her eyes and mouth, can voyage in the Black (does she need a spell?) without being affected by the cold.

Also, when you say she keeps her powers for 1 round (6 seconds) after sundown, well you could add she can instead choose to expel the sun-energy in her in the form of a black mist, like in the novel when she kills Dhojakt. The effect would be the same as the effect from the Preservers & Defilers spell touch the Black.

I could give her some type of resistance or immunity to the Black. What sort of energy would that be though? Negative or cold?
#50

Pennarin

Dec 24, 2004 9:25:57
Black = cold damage

About the eyes thing: agreed, its a minor detail.

But, the Black exhalation found in the novel when she kills Dhojakt, you didn't mention that but I feel its very appropriate, and that its not a minor detail at all.
The Defilers & Preservers spell was done to mirror what Sadira could do, so why not use it?
#51

Sysane

Dec 24, 2004 9:44:44
Black = cold damage

About the eyes thing: agreed, its a minor detail.

But, the Black exhalation found in the novel when she kills Dhojakt, you didn't mention that but I feel its very appropriate, and that its not a minor detail at all.
The Defilers & Preservers spell was done to mirror what Sadira could do, so why not use it?

If it mirrors the spell from P&D wouldn't it be a better explination to say that she cast it as a spell as opposed to tagging it on as power of the template?

I added cold immunity to the template.
#52

phaaf_glien

Aug 15, 2006 21:48:04
I am a strong proponent of establishing 2nd edition canon game mechanics before converting everything to 3.0 or 3.5. After all, Dark Sun was initially a 2nd edition game, and therefore essentially all our canon sources stem from such a background.

I am working on this 2nd edition Sadira write-up. There are many arguments which back up may assertions, some of which you may be familiar with or not. I however have no immediate desire to begin to compile such arguments, which cover the breadth of the Dark Sun published universe. I draw heavily however from the PP, and have used Sysane's write-up, drawn from the 3rd edition Shadow Giant Terrors of Athas write-up, the 2nd edition 2nd DS monstrous compendium, from Dragon's Crown (where a "lesser" shadow giant is stated, [2nd book, page 26), the City State of Tyr (where Sadira's stats are presented), Beyond the Prism Pentad and many more. I apologize for the use of my own, hopefully refined but certainly obscure 2nd edition psionic system (for the revised psionic system in the 2nd box set simply does not work if you ever try it, even with the errata garbage they attempted). The psionic system however is not *too* radical however, and should be rather understandable to anyone familiar with the Player's Option 2nd box system. The PP was however of course my greatest resource.

This is a 1st draft version, and certainly my writing style for it needs to be ironed out for the easiest of reading, but I believe I am fairly far along with it. I am rather certain I missed something, even something major, but that will have to wait for your complaints or my editing. Anyway, I hope this is pleasing. History, detailed appearance, better age calculations and an examination of the exact nature of her sun wizard existence, etc. will have to wait for another time and posting.

Happy darksunning. Would appreciate any comments or criticisms.




Sadira (Free Year 11), 13th level female half-elf N preserver/defiler;, 20th level female half-elf N sun wizard

13th level preserver half-elf statistics: S11 D18 C15 I19 W15 C17, AC 6, THAC0 16, physical age: 25/6?; mental age: 29?

Psionic Summary: MAC 9 MTHAC0 14 (11 while a sun wizard) MAX PSPs: 51 (sun wizard 64) MAT/DMG. ADJ. +3/+7
Wild Talent: mind bar (cost 4 PSPs a round)
Attacks: PsC
Defenses: M-, MB, IF

Proficiencies (only as a 13th level preserver): 8 non-weapon slots, 3 weapon slots, 8 extra “language” slots
Weapon: dagger, staff, (saved slot for warrior weapon)
Non-Weapon: ancient history (1), bargain (1), etiquette (1), local history (1), somatic concealment (1), spellcraft (1), mental armor (1), Athasian martial arts (trained by Rikus, 2 slots [cf. CS 293]), heraldry (1), navigation (1), sign language (1), contact (1), psychic crush (1)
Secondary Skill: reading/writing Tyrian
Languages: Tyrian (0), trade tongue (1), elven (1)

Sun Wizard statistics: S25 D18 C15 I19 W15 C17, AC -4 (her skin gives her AC 0, dex. -4 bonus), THAC0 14, MR 80%
Special Abilities:
-Immortality: While a sun wizard, Sadira does not age, nor can she be effected by mundane diseases. Sadira also does not require food or drink while in this state, although she may of course partake of such things if she wishes. Sadira does require however sleep and air while in this form, and she will die without them as would anyone else.
-Spell Ability: While a sun wizardess, Sadira possesses the abilities of a 20th level wizard, in addition to her abilities as a 13th level preserver, therefore allowing her an unusual number of spells, even for 20th level. As a sun wizard, she may draw energy for her 20th level allotment of spells from either the sun or plant life. She may draw energy from these two sources to cast her memorized preserver magic as well, but such spells will of course be erased from her memory, and will not be available upon reverting back to her regular 13th level status. Casting spells from her 13th level, “normal” allotment will be cast at a 20th level effect, not a 13th level effect.
-Spell Regeneration: While in the sun, Sadira receives "spell slots" for every ten minutes that pass (one slot for every ten minutes). These slots accrue until their maximum spell capacity has been reached. Such slots are not assigned spells (she does not need to possess a clear list of spells upon a new day’s beginning), per se, upon accretion, but are rather expended only upon the casting of each individual spell. She could not, for instance, as a 20th level sorceress, who can only cast two 9th level spells, cast 9th level spells indefinitely using this method (casting 9th level spells until all her “slots” are gone). The spell "slots" would be drained upon the casting of these two 9th level spells, and of course lower level spells could be cast subsequently, but a 9th level spell could only be cast again after 90 minutes had passed (10 minute per spell level, as per the Player's Handbook spell memorization rules). After a night has passed, Sadira automatically receives her entire allotment of spell “slots” upon the first appearance of the sun over the horizion that next morning.
-Magical Intuition: Sadira, as a 20th level wizard, is a genius with spellcraft. The power of the Pristine Tower however gives her even further gifts however. As long as she is a sun wizard, Sadira can conceive of spells essentially on the spot. The spells must conform to established norms however as far as components (verbal, somatic and material) are concerned, and in game play, completely new spells should have been pre-written and carefully checked by the DM to ensure proper fairness in the game and that the “new” spell is not too powerful, or poorly conceived. Sadira however is not beyond researching spells. More complicated magics require some refinement, and during her lucubrations Sadira may cast subtly different versions of the same spell several times before she gets it just the way she wants it. Furthermore, spells are almost always pre-planned and tested by Sadira, especially so that she may use material components for them (which helps keep down the level of the perspective spell). Required study for creating potions, spell scrolls and other more profound magical items still require the same amount of time, but her ability to conceive of spells with such incredible ease makes for the creating of spells to aid item enchantment extremely easy.
-Spell Casting While Spiritually Traveling in the Gray, Black, Etc.: If her body is in the Prime Material Plane but her spirit is traveling in the Black, Sadira may draw on 20 spell levels worth of energy to fuel her spells, which draws from the sun energy which accompanies her “astral” projection. Such energy cannot be renewed until her spirit returns to her body. (Example: Sadira, while in the Gray, could cast two 9th level meteor swarms and two 1st level magic missiles before running out of this source of energy).

Special Attacks:
-Physical Attack: Sadira may make a base physical attack (punch, elbow or knee strike, kick) for 1d10 real points of damage (certain very rare creatures would be immune to this, such as shadow giants). She can strike creatures that require +2 weapons to be damage, but not +3 or above.

-Cloud of the Black: Once per day Sadira may belch forth from her mouth a cloud of darkness, or more explicitly a billowing cloud of the Black. This cloud is roughly 1000 cubic feet, filling up an area of about 10 square feet, spilling off slightly around this central cube for another five feet. From Sadira, the cloud has a range of about 10 feet. The cloud has an initiative modifier of 3, and if targeted by Sadira, it is impossible to initially avoid the cloud (all others save vs. breath weapon, if successful they only suffer 3d10 points of cold damage and lose 1d4 points of strength). Within the central cube, a save vs. death magic must be made every round. All those under 5 HD who fail this save are slain instantly by the extremely enervating cold of the Black and indeed are taken into the Black themselves (their corpse at least), from which it is usually impossible to escape. If the creature in question is 5 HD or higher, and fails his saving throw, he is taken into the Black, where he will suffer 3d10 points of damage and the loss of 4 points of strength (no saving throw for either effects) until he is unconscious and dies. If in the cloud however, and the save roll is successful, 3d10 damage is sustained. Regardless of the saving throw however, 1d4 points of strength are drained from anyone in the cloud (no save). In the 5 foot periphery around the cloud, anyone touching this suffers 2d8 points of damage and loses one point of strength (there is no danger of being sucked into the Black here). The strength points will return at the rate of 1 a round in the Athasian sun as the body warms up again. Upon being reduced to 0 strength however, the character in question falls unconscious, completely enervated. They must a roll a successful system shock roll or die, and even if they succeed, they will remain essentially unconscious for 2d4 turns, and only thereafter slowly regenerate their strength at the rate of 1 point per turn (for so weak and close to death have they come). Magic resistance does not factor into defending against the cloud or its effects. The Black does not harm those immune to cold damage, and may effect other non-mammalian creatures differently (jellies, oozes and the like, etc.). The cloud will last 15 rounds, unless Sadira wishes it to disperse earlier, in which case she simply wills it away. Sadira possesses a significant degree of control over the cloud, and can choose specific targets within reason. Sadira herself is not immune to the effects of the Black, and will be damaged by them as would anyone else.

-Fumes of the Black: When Sadira breathes, she may, as many times as she wishes, exhale strongly, in which case wafts of blackness shoot forth from her upon any target within a 10 foot range, the effect ranging in width to about 5 feet. Anyone in these fumes loses a point of strength (no save) and suffers 2d8 points of damage (no save). This effect is extremely similar to the Cloud of the Black and will in general follow those guidelines.

Special Defenses:
-Sadira can only be harmed by +2 or greater magical weapons.

-When extremely angered or impassioned, Sadira’s normally blue eyes will flare up to a brilliant sapphire. The effect is intense enough that eye to eye contact is difficult to establish with sorceress, which in turn makes it very difficult for a psionicist to initiate mental combat. To do this, the psionicist must make a saving throw versus spell, after which he is able to bear the stare and begin mental combat. He may attempt a new saving throw roll each round. Sadira is not in effective control of this ability, as it corresponds to the intensity of her passions, which cannot be turned on and off.

Errata:
-Sadira cannot harm shadow giants with her sun magic. Sadira could strike at one physically, but her 1d10 damage and 25 strength would be ignored, and she would only succeed in inflicting punching/wrestling/martial arts temporary damage.
-If clawed, black wisps of ether will often fly off her and dissolve into the air
-As a sun wizard, Sadira often feels normal to the touch, and is in fair command of her incredible strength (she does not usually accidentally shatter drinking cups or other utensils).
-If struck successfully in combat as a sun wizard, Sadira may bleed the Black. This could cause damage to others dependant upon how much “blood” is spilled (see cloud and fumes of the Black above)
-In most circumstances, sexual and other similar forms of contact are impossible with Sadira while she is a sun wizard, unless rather serious magical precautions are taken.
-As a sun wizard, Sadira need not dispose of bodily waste, nor does she perspire.
-As Sadira can only be damage physically (non-magically and non-psionically) by magical weapons of +2 or greater enchantment, this of course applies to other non-magical forms of mundane physical harm. Normal fires will not harm her (unless she starts choking from the soot, or cannot breathe the superheated air, etc.), the sun will not burn her. Falling damage in almost all cases is ignored. Normal heat and cold will not harm her. Such protection however is not unlimited. Prolonged exposure to nature magma would surely destroy her (or even close proximity), as she could likely not breath in such conditions. Terminal velocity falls and the like, especially on jagged hard surfaces would also likely cause her to fall unconscious for a time, or at least have a chance of being disoriented etc.


Arguments

“S 25”: The truly extreme degree of Sadira’s strength while a sun wizard is attested throughout the PP. But one of the more pertinent examples is in CS, page 37: “While her ebony body was steeped in the power of the sun, even a half-giant could not have blocked her way.” A 25 strength seems the only logical conclusion.

“Sadira can only be harmed by +2 magical weapons”: Prince Dhojakt cannot harm Sadira…