Here's a question to mull over...

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

sokar

Jan 02, 2005 11:54:44
I recived the book Towers of High Sorcerery for christmas, and, as i was fipping through it, I noticed that the specialization requierment was removed from the WoHS class. Does this mean that sorcerers could take levels in this class, provided they meet all the requierments?
#2

nuke

Jan 02, 2005 13:29:10
They wouldn't be able to take it as soon as a Wizard as they'd have to take the Arcane Preperation feat on top of Spell Focus and the other Metamagic/Item Creation feat requirements, but other than that I don't see why they wouldn't be able to.
#3

talinthas

Jan 02, 2005 13:34:24
nope. The PrC still requires the caster to prepare spells. Sorcs don't prepare.
#4

sokar

Jan 02, 2005 14:58:57
nope. The PrC still requires the caster to prepare spells. Sorcs don't prepare.

Oh yeah... I guess i overlooked that...

EDIT: What is this "Arcane preperation" feat you speak of, and what book is it in?
#5

Dragonhelm

Jan 02, 2005 15:32:11
Oh yeah... I guess i overlooked that...

EDIT: What is this "Arcane preperation" feat you speak of, and what book is it in?

It's an evil feat that has no business being in DL. :P (j/k)

Seriously, it's a feat found in Tome and Blood (and I think Complete Arcane) that allows a sorcerer (and bards?) to prepare spells in advance.

This is fine for any other world, but the problem comes in the mechanical representation of ambient spellcasters vs. focused spellcasters. Ambient spellcasters don't prepare spells in advance, focused do. It's a mechanical way of representing where one's magic comes from.

And really, that's the key thing. Even if you did allow a sorcerer to have the arcane preparation feat, he still draws his magic from Wild Sorcery. All those who become a WoHS must draw their magic from High Sorcery.
#6

nuke

Jan 03, 2005 21:36:03
Arcane Preperation appears in in Complete Arcane. It allows a spontaneous arcane spellcaster (sorcerors, bards, etc..) to prepare an arcane spell in advance. Mainly it would be used to apply a metamagic feat, like Quicken Spell for instance.

So technically a Sorceror could become a WoHS. Whether you agree to it or not is up to you, but as the Prestige Class is written there is nothing stopping them. It actually may be one reasons why they removed the Specialization requirement. I'm not really sure why they did.

I personally wouldn't allow it, but then again I still require the Specialization requirement.
#7

Dragonhelm

Jan 03, 2005 22:06:28
So technically a Sorceror could become a WoHS. Whether you agree to it or not is up to you, but as the Prestige Class is written there is nothing stopping them.

From a mechanical standpoint, yes. The question you have to ask yourself is what this represents in-game. If you take this feat, do you now use the magic of High Sorcery?


It actually may be one reasons why they removed the Specialization requirement. I'm not really sure why they did.

Specialization requirement was removed to better reflect some notable DL wizards better, such as Dalamar. I prefer it to be an optional requirement. This way, you can have the best of both worlds.
#8

daedavias_dup

Jan 04, 2005 0:12:45
Well, if you think of it this way, this one feat could explain how Coryn was able to use both High Sorcery and Wild Sorcery at the same time. She could have the WoHS PrC and still be a sorcerer, then at the end of the book finally undergo an epiphany. Then, she would have to take a different feat since she lost access to Arcane Preparation. Perhaps one could make the feat only available Post-War of Souls, as it kinda requires usage of both forms of magic.
#9

true_blue

Jan 04, 2005 2:15:36
I'm glad they revised the class and made it without Specialization. While most people have Age of Mortals, it seemed everyone didnt really read the Generalist clause considering how many questions there were about it.

Personally I believe it would be nice to see more NPC wizards actually use Arcane Focus. I counted up once and I think there's been like 13 wizards statted, and only one of them has had Arcane Focus. To me thats a waste. Hopefully that will change in the future, say maybe the Legends sourcebook. Its hard for me to justify the ability being useful, if you never see any of the "powerful" NPC's even use it. Yes I realize that not every wizard is the same, but sheesh... 13 wizards so far. And this is supposed to be a bonus for being a WoHS? I'd almost say a "key ability", but others may disagree.

While it is nice that SP revises classes and PrC's, it does kind of suck that you have to flip through different books to find them. For most PrC's thats ok, but regular classes (Master, Noble and Mariner I guess (I dont care for those two but add them in for completeness), popular PrC's (WoHS, Knights of Solamnia, etc), and the "new" races like Half-Kender and Tarmak in one book. But as I've seen, a lot of people dont want a "revision" so its a moot point. Eh it happens.

Personally, I don't see any reason why a sorceror couldnt use Arcane Preperation. Although I do say there is no way I'd let a sorceror take the prestige class. The sorceror still uses ambient magic, he is just "preparing" the energy before hand. It doesn't really change anything. I really dont see the distainction of wizards as narrow as "wizards prepare spells" and "sorcerors come up with the energy at the time". Yes mainly this is how the two work, but I dont have a problem with a little variety and a *small* mixing of both. A sorceror could "prepare" their spell ahead of time, using the energy from the world to do it early. A wizard could maybe have some way to modify or come up with a way to do a spell at the time, and not ahead of time. Maybe even make some kind of detriment to the person to do so. I see the difference of the wozards/sorcerors as where they get the magic, not necessarily how they do the magic. After saying that, I still believe that wizards should *mainly* prepare spells, and sorcerors should *mainly* come up with theirs on the fly. But a little thing like a sorceror being able to use Arcane Preperation doesnt bother me. Most sorcerors arent going to prepare all their spells. If they wanted to do that in the first place, they would have been a wizard.
#10

nuke

Jan 04, 2005 11:32:58
Specialization requirement was removed to better reflect some notable DL wizards better, such as Dalamar. I prefer it to be an optional requirement. This way, you can have the best of both worlds.

Even as far back as AD&D, Wizards of High Sorcery have never been generalists. Each of the orders had schools that were restricted to them. So to allow them to be generalists all of a sudden is something that I don't agree with. That's the reason why I still require the Specialist requirement and would have preferred that they had just kept it in the 1st place.
#11

cam_banks

Jan 04, 2005 11:37:11
Even as far back as AD&D, Wizards of High Sorcery have never been generalists. Each of the orders had schools that were restricted to them. So to allow them to be generalists all of a sudden is something that I don't agree with. That's the reason why I still require the Specialist requirement.

I think you mean, even as far back as 1987. Up until 1987, in other words, for 3 years, there were no special rules for wizards of High Sorcery, and they were normal 1st edition AD&D magic-users. Then Dragonlance Adventures is published, and they're introduced as a split-class arrangement much like thief acrobats from the original Unearthed Arcana (just as knights of Solamnia are introduced as a cavalier subclass, when before they were just fighters).

This stuff evolves. It adapts to what is seen as a best-play solution and what seem to be the current conventions of the game. Right now you have both options, and in fact you have the option to start as a general wizard and then specialize after the Test, which is exactly how it worked in Dragonlance Adventures. So, generalist, specialist, specialist with an Arcane Focus, whatever you like - it's playable, and it works.

Cheers,
Cam