Let this be a thread for folks to talk about their Epic-Level DL games, either ones you're running, planning to run, or just general suggestions on what would make for a great Epic-Level game. I'll begin:
I'm planning a campaign set during the 3rd Dragon War. As we know, Takhisis has renegade wizards trying to bring her into the world. One cabal of rogue Black Robes will be searching for Epic Spells/ magic items to speed up the process. This Inner Circle is headed up by a lich, who's beginning the transformation to become an epic level demilich at the same time. His ultimate goal is to become a consort of Takhisis to grab even more power and ascend to godhood. As the campaign progresses, my players will learn more about this, and they will have to be Epic Level in order to stop him and his Inner Circle.
I'll be trying to get my players to take the Extended Life Span feat as often as possible, so we can continue play into War of the Lance and Age of Mortals with the same characters without having to resort to using Devices of Time Journeying. With luck, their exploits won't coincide with any of the Heroes of the Lance or any other major characters from War of Souls. They may even leave Krynn for a few centuries and come back after the War of Souls. That's still up in the air.
Who's next?
But I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Back in 2e DL characters above 20th level were removed from Krynn by the gods. The only explanation given was that DL was meant to be a low level campaign setting. There really wasn't an "in game" reason as to why the gods removed PCs after reaching that level from what I remember.
I guess it could be rationalized that the gods feared mortals that reached the level of power and saw them as a threat to Krynn itself or the gods' own power base (i.e. Rastlin, Fisty, King Priest, etc....) .
Back in 2e DL characters above 20th level were removed from Krynn by the gods. The only explanation given was that DL was meant to be a low level campaign setting.
When the new sourcebooks already have characters over 20th level isn't it a little futile to quote outdated information? Or is your intention to suggest that people went back to playing 2E? And what exactly does that even have to do with this thread when the question was of personal experiences with epic levels in DL?
When the new sourcebooks already have characters over 20th level isn't it a little futile to quote outdated information? Or is your intention to suggest that people went back to playing 2E? And what exactly does that even have to do with this thread when the question was of personal experiences with epic levels in DL?
I saw that it was perennate to the topic of epic levels and an interesting item of side note. I wasn't implying or suggesting that epic level PCs are removed in DL's current 3.5 incarnation. I'm sorry that you, and appreantly Nived, took in such a negative light. No need to be condescending
I'm sorry that you, and appreantly Nived, took in such a negative light. No need to be condescending
Sorry, but I fail to see where the condescencion was. And what do you mean negative light? I just failed to see the relevance. Someone asks for peoples experiences with a situation and you reply with a 'that situation does not exist' answer even though that was clearly not the case anymore. No offense meant. I was just stymied by it. I'll shut up now.
Sorry, but I fail to see where the condescencion was. And what do you mean negative light? I just failed to see the relevance. Someone asks for peoples experiences with a situation and you reply with a 'that situation does not exist' answer even though that was clearly not the case anymore. No offense meant. I was just stymied by it. I'll shut up now.
I was referring to the 2e rule of no characters after 18th level as a item of note. I figured people who didn't have access to the old 2e products would have found that interesting thats all. I didn't state that it carried over to 3.5 or that 3.5 DL doesn't allow epic level.
It was mentioned for purely nostalgic purposes. Not to debunk the use of epic level material.
Plus this line from the first post prompted me to bring the old rule up as well:
Are your players still on Krynn?
That seems to tie the 2e rule into the post IMO.
When the new sourcebooks already have characters over 20th level isn't it a little futile to quote outdated information? Or is your intention to suggest that people went back to playing 2E? And what exactly does that even have to do with this thread when the question was of personal experiences with epic levels in DL?
The 18th level limit never made it into 2nd edition, either. It's a relic of 1st edition, long abandoned.
Cheers,
Cam
The 18th level limit never made it into 2nd edition, either. It's a relic of 1st edition, long abandoned.
Cheers,
Cam
Either way I mentioned it as a side note. Nothing more. Not that it was a stapple in the DL campaign in all its editions.
Now can we please just all make nice and resume with the thread?
If players decided to go plane-hopping, they could spend time in Sigil, and realize that there's more to their cosmology than what they were led to believe. Bringing up the old 2E ghosts again, Planescape was a great setting for having PCs of all different campaign worlds rub shoulders. And so was Spelljammer.
I like the idea of eventually returning players to Krynn after a few epic levels to realize that how much things have changed. It would be a cool opportunity to have another player play the grandchild or at least a descendent of another character, when that character appears to be much younger than his grandchild. Kinda like if Raistlin used the device of time journeying to go forward and adventure with Palin, with Palin being in his late 50s, and Raistlin only in his 20s or 30s.
So who else has epic level experiences on Krynn?
Did they encounter mated astral dragons along the way? I like the concept behind them... And the fact that they reside in the Abyss, too! How about other DnD aspects such as Tanar'ri? did your players fight in the Blood War?
However, I still believe in DM's License, and that if you want to run an Epic level DL game, the sky's the limit.
It's the same thing, that 2E didn't allow infinite progression of elves, dwarves, halflings, etc to progress infinite levels, which I always thought was the dumbest thing about 2E, and I'm glad they fixed it. Even back then, we tossed that particular rule out the window- this was back before the Skills and Powers Options came out and 2E was dropped from the covers. We never got into those newer rules, so I don't know if the racial level limits thing was fixed before 3E or not.
PHANE
Large Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar, Incorporeal)
Hit Dice: 36d8+324 (612 hp)
Initiative: +11 (+7 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: 80 ft., fly 120 ft. (perfect)
AC: 50 (–1 size, +7 Dex, +11 deflection, +23 insight)
Base Attack/Grapple: +36/--—
Attack: Incorporeal touch +43 (1d6 plus stasis touch) melee
Full Attack: Incorporeal touch +43 (1d6 plus stasis touch) melee
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, stasis touch, chronal blast, time leach, summon past time duplicate
Special Qualities: Abomination traits, null time field, time regression, fast healing 15, regeneration 15, SR 37, DR 15/epic, sonic immunity
Saves: Fort +31, Ref +29, Will +29
Abilities: Str —, Dex 25, Con 28, Int 24, Wis 16, Cha 33
Skills: Balance +46, Concentration +48, Diplomacy +50, Hide +42, Jump +20, Knowledge (arcana, religion, the planes) +46, Listen +44, Move Silently +46, Search +46, Sense Motive +42, Spellcraft +46, Spot +44, Swim +39, Tumble +46
Feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus (incorporeal touch)
Epic Feats: Blinding Speed, Epic Toughness (x2), Epic Will, Spell Stowaway (time stop)
Climate/Terrain: Any land and underground
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 25
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: 37–50 HD (Large); 51–65 HD (Huge)
A phanes’ natural weapons are treated as epic, evil, and chaotic-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Combat
Spell-Like Abilities: At will—detect good, detect magic, improved invisibility (self only); 5/day—haste, slow, greater teleport, tongues, trap the soul, true strike, unholy aura; 2/day—safe time, time duplicate (epic spell); 1/day—time stop. Caster level 21st; save DC 21 + spell level. The DC is Charisma-based.
Stasis Touch (Su): As temporal stasis, except as an at-will supernatural ability. Caster level 25th; save DC 21 + spell level. The DC is Charisma-based.
Chronal Blast (Su): As a standard action, the phane can make a ranged touch attack against any creature within 100 feet. If it succeeds, the subject is targeted by a spasm of space-time flux, dealing 15d6 points of damage.
Time Leach (Su): For every round of apparent time experienced by the phane, it automatically absorbs the “future” from any creature it has successfully encapsulated in static time via its stasis touch (not its null time field), no matter the distance separating victim and phane, and no matter the number of victims. Of course, to the victim no time passes at all, but each apparent round experienced by the phane ages the victim 1d4 years, at the same time healing the phane of 20 hit points of damage. A victim who is not somehow released from static time by a friend who can cast dispel magic, greater dispel magic, or some other likely spell, eventually ages to death. Victims killed in this manner automatically fall out of static time as desiccated husks that disintegrate to a fine dust with even the lightest touch. Victims who are released prior to death immediately apply the physical effects of aging, but not the mental effects.
Summon Past Time Duplicate (Sp): Once per day, a phane can summon a duplicate of one its foes stolen from a parallel alternate past. The stolen time duplicate has the same stats and possessions as the original, but is treated as if having two negative levels (which simulates a less experienced version of the original). The phane can never summon a past time duplicate of a creature with more than 25 HD (add sufficient negative levels to compensate for high foe HD, if necessary). The past time duplicate, despite having most of the knowledge of the original, serves the phane loyally like any summoned creature. If the past time duplicate is slain, the original is not harmed because the duplicate was pulled from a parallel past. However, the original does not necessarily realize this, and must make a Will save (DC 30) or be shaken for 1d4 rounds after witnessing the death of a duplicate for the first time.
Abomination Traits: Immune to polymorphing, petrification, and other form-altering attacks; not subject to energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, or death from massive damage; immune to mind-affecting effects; fire resistance 20; cold resistance 20; nondetection; true seeing at will; blindsight 500 ft.; telepathy out to 1,000 ft.
Null Time Field (Ex): Phanes continually generate a 30-foot-radius spread null time field. All creatures and objects in the field, except the phane, must make a Will saving throw (DC 30) each round to take any actions. On a failed save, subjects are stuck in a static time stream until their next round of actions, at which time they must make another saving throw. While a subject is stuck in a static time stream induced by a null time field, the phane can use its static touch on the subject, though in all other ways, the subject is invulnerable to attacks and damage as if in temporal stasis.
Time Regression (Su): If the phane spends an action per round for four rounds, at the end of the 4th round the phane regresses back in time 4 rounds, to the very 1st round it originally began concentrating on time regression. On its second pass through the time stream, it can take completely different actions, based on its knowledge of the future (though if it takes different actions from its first pass through the time stream, the events of the original time stream are also changed).
Regeneration (Ex): Phanes take normal damage from holy and good weapons, and from weapons forged in the future or an alternate reality’s time stream (if any).
Great for sticking folks in time