Stats (Class and character level) of the Athasian population

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

lurking_shadow

Jan 22, 2005 13:38:19
What this post is about:

It’s about NPCs on DarkSun, specifically about general stats (Class and character level) of the Athasian population. I got interested in the subject because of some topics of discussion that have recently come up in the boards, my DS campaign and an article called Eberron Under the Glass: Character Level and Classes, released 12/27/04 on the D&D site.

The reason I care about this:

I figure that the class and level demographics of Athas’ population differs significantly from Eberron’s and the generic D&D world’s both, and I find that such a difference may have some minor, but important, consequences to how a DarkSun campaign is played. See, often the DM must wonder how many ranks in Appraise a generic elven trader has, or how many Hit Points a generic tavern patron may have, or how many ranks in Sense Motive a generic dwarven magistrate should have. Because that’s what PCs do. They try to trick elves into paying a lot of money for junk, they pick fights in taverns and they lie to dwarven elders to get employed as mercenaries in a village; or else they do something just as unexpected. On such moments, the DM has to make snap decisions about the class and level of NPCs. Currently, I’m trying to figure out the class and level demographics of North Ledopolus because I’m planning a large-scale battle with the PCs in the middle – and I have to know the fighting skill of the villagers. Making up stats for NPCs is a vital part of the DM’s job. Even the players benefit from knowing the general make up of the population; they need to know what to expect from the NPCs they interact with.

Eberron and FR:

On standard D&D (3e) worlds, such as FR, PC Classes are supposed to be uncommon. The vast majority of the people is made of characters of NPC Classes and are usually 1st level commoners. NPCs of PC Classes do occur; most are of fairly low level, but a scant few are quite powerful. The PCs are supposed to be tough adventurers even in their earlier levels, but will find NPCs of (almost) matching skills mostly anywhere.

Eberron, according to the article, deviates from this norm. Since it’s supposed to be a “pulp” setting, average NPCs must never be a match to the PCs. PC Classes are supposed to be rarer and the general level of NPCs (even villains), much lower. On Eberron, PCs are movers-and-shakers, or at least heroic adventurers early on.

In both cases, the party’s level is usually not very high: the supposed starting level is 1st and characters are meant to be nowhere near epic-levels or its vicinities (18-20) until after MUCH adventuring. Of course that’s not true for all campaigns, but it’s the norm.

Actual demographics on Eberron and standard D&D:

The DMG provides tables to help generating the populations of generic communities. I’ve found out that the DMG method generates communities in which locals of PC Classes usually make up 5-10% of the population, give or take a few. Most small communities (hamlets, small towns, etc.) include just a couple of NPCs of the rarer Classes (Paladin, Wizard), if at all, and these are always of very low level (1st-4th). The very largest cities (such as metropolises) actually include a couple of high-leveled (13th to 20th) members of all classes and several dozen more of lower levels. However, given how large these populations are, characters with PC Class levels make up only a small percentage (3-7%) of the locals. On smaller towns, the percentage is a little higher (5-11%) because of the small amount of people.

Another article that came up on the D&D site, Dragonshards: Demographics, gives modified tables for Eberron. Indeed, high level NPCs occur much more rarely when using the modified method and the “highest-level locals” generated are of much lower level than the ones generated with the DMG method. However, since the Eberron method pushes for a “wider spread of lower level characters”, it may give a slightly higher percentage of PC Classes than the DMG method, but the difference isn’t really big and this happens mostly on the larger settlements only. On large cities and metropolises, the figure is still around 10%; on very small ones the percentage of “locals” with PC Class levels is actually much smaller and can be negligible.

Reason why I think Eberron’s and the DMG’s tables won’t work:

I find it unlikely that Saltview’s toughest raider is a 7th level Fighter, or that its most advanced preserver is a 3rd level Wizard, which are the DMG’s limits for a town of less than 900 ( on Eberron levels would be even lower). Gulg’s army cannot be made of 1st level Commoner conscripts, 1st level Warrior regulars, a handful of fighters and a small strike team. And, quite frankly, the Athasian wastes are no place for a bunch of 1st level Commoners; they can’t make up the majority of the population, no way! Athas’ inhabitants are quite different from the people of other D&D worlds.

DarkSun tables:

Actually, I believe no table will ever be appropriate for DarkSun at all; exceptions would be too numerous. On Athas, each community (village, tribe, city, etc.) must be handled ad hoc, since they are so unique.

Athasian NPCs:

While Eberron is supposed to be “pulp”, on DarkSun PCs should not stand out too easily. I think it more in keeping with the spirit of the setting that the party, while powerful, be surrounded with people that are more or less a match for them. If the party decides to go exploring Forest Ridge they should be worried sick about fending off Halfling hunters that’ll try to eat them alive. PCs that cause trouble in a city-state should be dealt with mercilessly by templar guards. The party should fear and evade the BlackSand raiders, not hunt them down to “rid the world of ruthless bandits”. The PCs should not be regarded as saviors and deliverers everywhere they go. They should be met with suspicion, disdain, treachery, or even violence, instead.

People on Athas are rarely helpless, even when they are oppressed.

2e:

Back in the days of AD&D (2e) the starting level in DS was 3rd, not 1st like other settings. Moreover, there weren’t any NPC classes. Consequently, pretty much all of the NPCs described in official adventures, even some unimportant background characters, were mid or high-level Fighters, Psionicists, Clerics, etc. In those days, I suspect that the average Athasian was supposed to be quite a lot tougher than it’s equivalent from FR or Dragonlance (ruleswise, at least). Of course, 3e dealt away with many of the old habits from 2e, but...

3e:

The starting level is still 3rd in 3.5 DS after a fashion. Four out of the ten core races have level adjustment, two of which also have monster levels – thri-kreen and Half-Giants with no Class levels are equivalent to 3rd level characters. I suspect most campaigns still start at 3rd level, at least. (Of course, this is athas.org version. I have not seen the one published on Dragon and Dungeon magazines.) And, as in 2e, this kind of raises the bar for everyone, PCs, major NPCs and even faceless NPCs. There have been some complaints about the large number of high-level NPCs in Dregoth Ascending I, which is a leftover from the original 2e manuscript. However, especially since it’s a campaign meant for high-level characters, I find it may not be that far off.

My suggestion:

“Locals” of PC Classes may be close to a third of the population (or more, depending on the place), not five or ten percent. Since the “starting level” is 3rd, not 1st, many faceless NPCs can be low-level (1st-3rd) characters of PC Classes. “Locals” of NPC Classes are still majority, but a great deal of them are of (slightly) higher level than 1st. Commoners are not as widespread and numerous. They appear in large numbers in the city-states as unskilled slaves and laborers, but elsewhere the Warrior and the Specialist prevail – the customizable skill repertoire of the latter is quite appropriate for making hunters and nomads. High-level characters (of PC and NPC Classes both) are uncommon, but may appear in reasonable quantities anywhere – even a small fifty-person tribe may be led by a Ranger, a Psion, a Cleric and a Preserver, all of 8th to 10th level and a larger group may have several more such characters of even higher level. Many high-level NPCs are likely to be of a mix of PC and NPC Classes – Warriors with a few Fighter levels, Specialists with a couple of Ranger levels, etc.

As I said earlier, Athas’ communities have to be handled ad hoc. For instance, the most common classes on Gulg (except for the commoner, perhaps) must be the Specialist and the Ranger; on Draj, it’s the Warrior and the Fighter. Altaruk has lots of Warriors, many Fighters, numerous Specialists and Rogues (traders) and quite a few commoners. North Ledopolus and Makla aren’t likely to have many Rogues. The Clearwater elven tribe probably has much fewer Warriors and little or no Commoners. And so on.

Finally:

So, do you agree with me? Is my take on the matter flawed somehow? Does changing the average athasian so unbalance 3e’s system somehow?
#2

zombiegleemax

Jan 22, 2005 14:12:51
I totally agree. I ignore the DMG population tables on standard worlds other than Dark Sun anyway, because I hate NPC classes ( I think they are just for lazy DMs to fill out towns) You have an excellent point that Athas is no place for the weak, and the character levels of all NPCs especially the city-states' armies, need to be greatly enhanced beyond the DMG standard.
#3

dawnstealer

Jan 22, 2005 14:27:10
Actually, I disagree. The thought behind it is that the bulk of people are simply happy to have a place to live and protection from the wilds of Athas. They do not need to know how to fight or steal or use psionics or cast spells: they need to know how to make shoes, get water from a well, and avoid the ever-watching eyes of the templars. These are normal, everyday people - hence the 0-level.

Now places like Salt View raise different issues, but a slave does not have to be a 15th level gladiator to escape the clutches of their master. Think about Harriet Tubman - could you see her whipping out a sword and cutting people down? The main skill of an escaped slave is the desire to be free and stay that way. For that reason, the percentage of "classed" persons in a slave tribe will be slightly higher.

The reasons the PCs are called heroes is because they're heroic. If they're just like everyone else, then they're not really all that amazing. People (any people) beyond 5th level are exceptional, even on Athas. These are people that are so good at what they do that other people take notice. I know 3e has changed this a bit (it used to be 3rd level in my campaign, now it's 5th...maybe 7th), but the concept is still the same. Does this mean that your player who's a 10th level rogue could waltz into Salt View, beat the crap out of their leader, and take the whole place over? Yep. Is it realistic? Yep.

That's just my take, though: do what works in your campaign.
#4

lurking_shadow

Jan 22, 2005 16:35:34
Athas is no place for the weak, and the character levels of all NPCs especially the city-states' armies, need to be greatly enhanced beyond the DMG standard.

Quite. ;)

Actually, I disagree. The thought behind it is that the bulk of people are simply happy to have a place to live and protection from the wilds of Athas. They do not need to know how to fight or steal or use psionics or cast spells: they need to know how to make shoes, get water from a well, and avoid the ever-watching eyes of the templars. These are normal, everyday people - hence the 0-level.

I more or less agree with you. Indeed, I do not claim that everyone on Athas is a psionics-using action hero. However, I do not believe most people live sheltered lives at all. The city-states are somewhat safe, agreed. But most communities on DS are nowhere near as large and powerful as the city-states. Small towns and nomadic tribes must endure constant harassing by monsters, raiders and rivals, desert storms, lack of food and water and many such menaces. As I said before, I doubt 1st level Commoners would survive long on the Athasian wastes. My point is that the rate of people that have skills fit for adventuring is higher on Athas than elsewhere. This applies even to the citizens of the city-states. Most free Gulgs are hunters, hence Specialists or Rangers. Most free Draji train constantly for war, hence Warriors and Fighters.

Now places like Salt View raise different issues, but a slave does not have to be a 15th level gladiator to escape the clutches of their master.

That is true, although most escaped slaves depicted on official adventures were high-level gladiators-turned-raiders. Clearly, that was for adventuring reasons but I believe most escaped slaves are indeed tough customers. Escaping is hard enough, but what’s truly hard is surviving as an escaped slave. Thrown on the wastes with no possessions and hunted by their former masters, most die or are recaptured quite quickly. Only the most dangerous, skilled or lucky survive, I reckon.

Think about Harriet Tubman - could you see her whipping out a sword and cutting people down? The main skill of an escaped slave is the desire to be free and stay that way. For that reason, the percentage of "classed" persons in a slave tribe will be slightly higher.

Harriet Tubman?

The reasons the PCs are called heroes is because they're heroic. If they're just like everyone else, then they're not really all that amazing. People (any people) beyond 5th level are exceptional, even on Athas. These are people that are so good at what they do that other people take notice. I know 3e has changed this a bit (it used to be 3rd level in my campaign, now it's 5th...maybe 7th), but the concept is still the same. Does this mean that your player who's a 10th level rogue could waltz into Salt View, beat the crap out of their leader, and take the whole place over? Yep. Is it realistic? Yep.

I agree that 5th level characters are exceptional. And I’m not saying PCs should be like everyone else. However. I believe DarkSun has a much different tone than other settings in that the PCs do not stand out so easily; the rest of the world isn’t made of victims, innocent bystanders and the occasional villain. Until they are really powerful, PCs should not take a trip through Forest Ridge lightly, nor a vendetta with the SiltStalkers.

Again, my suggestion is that “classed” persons be around a third of the population, and that the overall level be a bit higher. I'm not saying that the 5th level party should be surrounded by 15th level "locals". My take on things is that a mercenary lieutenant should be a 3rd level Fighter, not a 1st level Warrior; that an elven trader should be a 2nd level Rogue or, at least, a 2nd level Specialist, not a 1st level Commoner. (How else would he have survived so many trips through the wastes, I wonder?)

Indeed, PCs are extraordinary in that they adventure. Most people do not. Accordingly, PCs ARE tougher than the norm. Those that weren’t have died already.

That's just my take, though: do what works in your campaign.

Same here. :D