Venerable T-Rexes!

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Feb 05, 2005 18:52:27
okay misleading title. Tyrant King is accurate though. and venerable certainly applies to the SKs in question.

this is just towards the psyches of the God-King/Queens of Athas. Back in our days I remember discussing their alignments with the former DM of our DS game, to which he replied "they are insane" i retorted "but not one of them is CN", and to which he corrected me "they underwent the dragon metamorphosis. they are insane"

this is a very interesting point, it is a particular psychology that drove these individuals to undergo the transformation just to fulfill desire for power. at the very least was the cost of their humanity.

in VoDAF Bory's lofty and calculating mind is described, that no activity even deserves his personal attention any longer. in the last of the Nomad novels, there is talk by one of Nibenay's wives of his detached and cold nature, and note that later his interest had waned entirely from the opposite sex (a mark of true insanity no less). over and over in canon and novels are the remarks and descriptions of the aloof and bored natures of the SKs, so immortal and unimpressed that only the most outrageous or insolent garner their fleeting attention. their desire for personal power, besides screwing the dustworld for the rest of life on athas also left them unfulfilled and perpetually on guard against a very crossed master. good price for immortality ah?
#2

monastyrski

Feb 05, 2005 23:13:20
this is just towards the psyches of the God-King/Queens of Athas. Back in our days I remember discussing their alignments with the former DM of our DS game, to which he replied "they are insane" i retorted "but not one of them is CN", and to which he corrected me "they underwent the dragon metamorphosis. they are insane"

Anybody insane is true neutral, not CN.
this is a very interesting point, it is a particular psychology that drove these individuals to undergo the transformation just to fulfill desire for power. at the very least was the cost of their humanity.

The SKs are not the dragons from the DK or D&P. First they were changed by Rajaat into Champions, and then they were changed into Dragons by Borys using the Dark Lens.
in VoDAF Bory's lofty and calculating mind is described, that no activity even deserves his personal attention any longer. in the last of the Nomad novels, there is talk by one of Nibenay's wives of his detached and cold nature, and note that later his interest had waned entirely from the opposite sex (a mark of true insanity no less). over and over in canon and novels are the remarks and descriptions of the aloof and bored natures of the SKs, so immortal and unimpressed that only the most outrageous or insolent garner their fleeting attention. their desire for personal power, besides screwing the dustworld for the rest of life on athas also left them unfulfilled and perpetually on guard against a very crossed master. good price for immortality ah?

If you are interested in my opinion, read it here.
#3

zombiegleemax

Feb 06, 2005 8:46:19
PHB 2e notes CN is the typical alignment of madmen. in any event, insanity is less of a philosophy than a perspective. and its pretty radical to insinuate the sorceror kings are not evil.

1 champions of athas? the nazis were the champions of aryans... the Champions chose to eliminate diversity & promote humanity, only turning on rajaat when they discovered his plan left the wrodl fro the halflings.

2 protecting athas is less their concern then protecting their skin. they sacrifice 1000 lives a city each year for this price. defeating rajaat simply tandems with teh goals of all living things on athas as well.

3 they knowingly, willingly, promoted the death of their world with reckless defiler energies. they are defilers. i mean...this doesnt take a lot of stretching to see...

lastly, tehy are the dragons from the DK book. if you want to get picky, VoDaF notes borys is a 30th dragon as described in DK. the notes on each sorceror king allude to their level, aka their stage in the metamorphosis. CHampion is just a title Rajaat gave to them. its one of those ambiguous and endless debates, but anything a 20/20 psi/wiz cant accomplish, i doubt a 21st dragon would do on his own. and in the official timeline it specifially states that Borys as reward for his usurpers, began their dragon metamorphosis.

and as for TN perhaps only the Pyreen take this view, which is entirely of Balance (versus insanity, which consistently through human civilization has been indicted as a lack of balance, mentally)...mostly concerning long term goals and consequences (pyreen habit/society description). the PHB 2e has an interesting analogy of balance & conseqeunces concerning a group of Gnolls.

it can safely be said the SKs, the DKs, and megalomaniac (they call themselves gods, or lacking that, Obas & Grand VIziers ) aspirants of greater levels of power that act in selfish, short-term directions (did i hear defilers being the quick & easy path?) with regard more for themselves than the life around them can unequivocably be called evil. unless you want to haggle with the greater philsoophy of good and evil, say utilitarian vs kantian, but thats probably too big a stretch than the 3x3 alignment grid gygax came up with to begin with can handle.
#4

zombiegleemax

Feb 06, 2005 11:09:05
I think, with only a couple exceptions, the SK's are actually pretty sane. Most of them rule as a dictator, with active roles in their CS government. I think a lot of it is just an extension of being alive for so long. They're just BORED. Nibenay has probably been with so many wives it has lost all meaning for him. An so on.

Of course, Ablach-Re would probably fit into the "crazy sorcerer queen" category, with her beleiving in her lie and all. Oh, and we can't forget Daskinor, who has locked himself up in Eldaarich and talks to sock puppets. Tectuctitlay is a maybe. The rest seem pretty lucid.

I was about to say they may all suffer from megalomania... but...

megalomania \meg-uh-lo-MAY-nee-ah; -nyuh\, noun:
1. A mania for grandiose or extravagant things or actions.
2. A mental disorder characterized by delusions of grandeur.

1- Considering most of the SK's have sat on their collective rears for the past few hundred years, and the fact that they have a stable government, I wouldnt say that definition 1 applies.
2- Many SK's desire godhood. Normally this would be highly megalomaniacal... but, as this is a fantasy setting, and as these are extremely powerful individuals, who is to say that this is a delusion of grandeur? After all... what is Dregoth Ascending all about?