Think we'll ever catch up with Ravenloft?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

havard

Feb 10, 2005 8:25:33
Well, comparing this forum with the other OOP boards shows that Mystara isnt the smallest kid. We are way ahead of Spelljammer and Birthright. Still, Ravenloft is next with about 4000 posts more than us.

Think we'll ever catch up? ;)

Håvard
#2

thorf

Feb 10, 2005 8:59:31
I'm doing my absolute best to try!

It does seem like we have a somewhat limited pool of readers here, though. I've only seen at most 15 or so people posting here. It seems that we're all regulars, but with that number it would be difficult to get a huge number of posts.
#3

zombiegleemax

Feb 10, 2005 9:23:13
I'm not pessimistic but I don't think we'll be able to catch up until RL maybe becomes dead once again... then again, RL has a strange habit of rising as undead every now and then so.. ;) :P

To make a few comparisons, the Mystara section of the Italian forum where I usually post has some 3600 messages on it... but I dare say the big posters can be counted on the fingers of ONE hand...
I don't think getting more messages on the board is the best way of resurrecting Mystara.
We should attract MORE PEOPLE, that's the real deal. Maybe advertising a bit more on the MML wouldn't be so bad. I am still subscribed to the MML, but nowadays I find it quicker and more useful browsing the Boards rather than reading every email. That's why I reply here more often than on the MML :P
#4

thorf

Feb 10, 2005 9:41:38
But the problem is, it's easy to say and really not easy to do.

I'm sure people like me, who stick entirely to OD&D and really don't care about the newer rulesets, are probably not helping the situation. Some might say that we hold Mystara back, and prevent it from gaining a new 3E audience.

But on the other hand, the products available are all written for OD&D. I think this is a much bigger problem than anyone's individual attitudes. And no matter how much we convert and re-write things for the new rules, the fatc remains that the books and PDFs that are out there are all old, out of print OD&D materials.

So what to do?

In the end, with Mystara in its current state, I don't think that there's a lot we can do. The best we can do is try to interest our friends in the game, but beyond that, we simply don't have the advertising power to even begin to think about getting a wider audience into the setting.

That's what I think, at any rate. Somewhat pessimistic, eh?
#5

zombiegleemax

Feb 10, 2005 11:59:51
Well, when our boards reached 1000 posts - Ravenloft had around 5000.
So I think we're catching up rather well...

EDIT: What I meant was that while we didn't reduce the 4000 posts gap - our growing rate is rather good.
#6

Hugin

Feb 23, 2005 10:01:24
Well, when our boards reached 1000 posts - Ravenloft had around 5000.
So I think we're catching up rather well...

EDIT: What I meant was that while we didn't reduce the 4000 posts gap - our growing rate is rather good.

You're right! I think the rate at which posts are being made is about the same as RL. And with several new names that have joined in lately, I think we'll at least keep pace.

I guess now is as good a place as any to welcome the new "faces" to the MMB and say good to have you aboard!
#7

zombiegleemax

Feb 23, 2005 10:06:06
Indeed! Just watch the posting-rate in the last couple of hours!

(I believe Thorf's Secret Project turns out to be quite a Rating-Booster...)
#8

thorf

Feb 23, 2005 10:42:07
It's not just thanks to me - everyone is helping I think. :D And today we're having a field day with posting! No holds barred!
#9

zombiegleemax

Feb 23, 2005 19:19:29
Woot! Let's catch those undead lovers! Known World uber alles! :D
#10

zombiegleemax

Feb 24, 2005 12:44:04
Personally, I much prefer the mailing list format, but there's been pretty much nothing posted to the list since I joined and this seems to be where the action is.
#11

thorf

Feb 24, 2005 12:54:36
I used to agree with you, but lately I've been somewhat converted to the message board format. Hehe, it might have something to do with the fundamentally graphical thread I'm running at the moment, which would be an impossibility on the list. :P
#12

zombiegleemax

Feb 24, 2005 12:55:40
Heh. Yeah, I guess there is that...
#13

zombiegleemax

Feb 24, 2005 13:10:39
... and this seems to be where the action is.

Funny. It used to be the other way around when I joined these boards, IIRC.
#14

zombiegleemax

Mar 03, 2005 9:24:04
Well, guys, did you notice how many people are on-line right now?
(12, when I last checked)
Something is definitely going on - and it's looking good.
#15

Cthulhudrew

Mar 03, 2005 9:27:20
Well, guys, did you notice how many people are on-line right now?
(12, when I last checked)
Something is definitely going on - and it's looking good.

I noticed we passed 4,000 posts.
#16

zombiegleemax

Mar 03, 2005 9:29:52
I noticed we passed 4,000 posts.

AND we've reduced the gap: Less than 4000 posts to catch up with Ravenloft!
#17

havard

Mar 03, 2005 9:33:37
AND we've reduced the gap: Less than 4000 posts to catch up with Ravenloft!

Muhaha,
Ravenlofters: here we come! :evillaugh

Håvard
#18

Cthulhudrew

Mar 03, 2005 9:38:36
Muhaha,
Ravenlofters: here we come! :evillaugh

Shh! Don't wake them up! They'll start a posting spree to get ahead again!
#19

zombiegleemax

Mar 03, 2005 9:42:04
Shh! Don't wake them up! They'll start a posting spree to get ahead again!

Oh, we're safe. On the "Other Roleplaying Worlds HQ" page, the name of this thread appears only as "Think we'll ever catch up..." (Good idea, Havard! Giving this thread too long a name...).
They probably don't even know we are discussing them in our dark plottings...
#20

kheldren

Mar 03, 2005 9:52:01
I like this format since I can access it at work and at home - a mailing list is a one address only format. I couln't even use web-mail for that as work bans access to email sites (and some bulletin boards - but not this one!).

Just doing my bit to move us towards RL Actually I think our real target should not be RL, but the D&D Out of Print board - the other main one I read these days - but RL comes first...

Anway I thought this is probably as good a place as any to say thank-you for all the great fun I've had (and expect to have in the future) reading everyone's ideas and thoughts. This does seem to be a very friendly and welcoming board.
#21

thorf

Mar 03, 2005 10:29:25
Yeah, tonight was awesome. :bounce:

Unfortunately, as someone who checks the board every time I sit down at the computer or open a web browser, it's not usually like this. Where are all of you guys when I'm at work, searching for something to do for a free period? ;)

Seriously, yeah I like the message board format for the same reason: easy access at home and at work.

And on the topic of the thread, I think we have a good chance. And as I said last time this thread came round, I'm doing my utmost to push us in the right direction. :D

Just remember: one post a day, even if it's just to say hi and leave a short comment on someone's project! Uh, I mean post.
#22

zombiegleemax

Mar 03, 2005 10:35:00
Yeah, tonight was awesome.

Mmmm... Never-mind.
#23

thorf

Mar 03, 2005 10:36:31
Mmmm... Never-mind.

LOL, time zone fun again by any chance? It has also occurred to me that with all the people on here tonight, we pretty much had the northern hemisphere covered. ;)
#24

zombiegleemax

Mar 03, 2005 10:39:57
It has also occurred to me that with all the people on here tonight, we pretty much had the northern hemisphere covered. ;)

#25

Hugin

Mar 03, 2005 18:12:52
Wow guys! I got home from work and all the threads were bold with new posts! Wish I was here for the "dirty dozen" moment; that's got to be a record for this forum.

Anway I thought this is probably as good a place as any to say thank-you for all the great fun I've had (and expect to have in the future) reading everyone's ideas and thoughts. This does seem to be a very friendly and welcoming board.

I second that. I read some of the other forums (like "What's a DM to do") from time to time, and I have to say things are much more constructive and co-operative here. It's also more "personal"; I have yet to see real names used as frequently as they are here. This forum has a community group feel to it that I appreciate. Thanks for the experience!
#26

Cthulhudrew

Mar 03, 2005 20:56:42
I've noticed a couple of new faces around here today, too- which is always refreshing to see!
#27

thorf

Mar 03, 2005 21:32:47
Yeah, we're a pretty tight-knit community, I think. It probably helps that we're all passionate enough about Mystara to still be talking about it 10 years after it "died". Also of course the relatively limited numbers mean that we probably know (or at least know of) each other more than in other, larger gaming communities.

And we always come back to Mystara, even if we sometimes drift away.

This community is definitely the nicest I've been involved with online. Also without a doubt the most geographically diverse, the most intelligent and literate, and in many ways the most challenging and fulfilling. The sheer knowledge routinely used in our discussions is astounding - and I mean real world knowledge, although of course Mystaran knowledge is also a strong point for us. ;) I can't count the number of times I've gone and researched something from an offhand reference made by someone here so that I could fully participate in the discussion.
#28

zombiegleemax

Mar 04, 2005 0:16:36
... It's also more "personal" ...

I agree. It is only lately, through the dynamics of this community, that I felt more comfortable to disclose more personal info about myself. Thanks.
#29

Hugin

Mar 11, 2005 18:39:19
We've crossed the 400 THREAD mark my friends!!!
#30

zombiegleemax

Mar 17, 2005 18:11:13
Current Gap Update: 3,526
#31

Hugin

Mar 17, 2005 18:56:34
Current Gap Update: 3,526

We gained about 500 posts on them in a matter of roughly two weeks! Not bad! But really, who's keeping score? :angelhide
#32

marc

Mar 17, 2005 19:34:31
It's the lurkers who should be attempted to be counted like myself. I was one of the guys who posted here when the thread was in it's hundreds trying to drum up some activity and boy has it taken off from there in the past 6 months or so.

And yes, before I get kicking for it, I should post more...

btw, great work Thorf.
#33

culture20

Mar 17, 2005 20:02:22
Might the number of times threads are read be a good indication of activity? Thorf's map thread has a high ratio of reads/post.
Edit: Just checked my math; Thorf's thread actually has a lower ratio compared to smaller threads.
#34

Hugin

Mar 17, 2005 20:09:49
Thorf's thread actually has a lower ratio compared to smaller threads.

OR, may I suggest a higher percentage of views result in replies! ;)
#35

Mortepierre

Mar 18, 2005 2:31:03
But on the other hand, the products available are all written for OD&D. I think this is a much bigger problem than anyone's individual attitudes. And no matter how much we convert and re-write things for the new rules, the fatc remains that the books and PDFs that are out there are all old, out of print OD&D materials.

I beg to differ. When the Known World became Mystara due to TSR's request that all its settings be 'upgraded' to AD&D 2E, more than a few products were released with 2E stats.

Besides, with the 'epic' rules now all over 3.XE, finding the stats of a 36th wizard in an old OD&D accessory no longer frightens a (modern era) D&D's DM. Heck! Mystara should even relish its status as the 'first epic setting' of the line!
#36

zombiegleemax

Mar 21, 2005 9:47:15
Finally, Current Gap Update: 3,500

Keep up the good work...
#37

thorf

Mar 21, 2005 11:07:43
It's a great idea to post reports about the size of the gap, because it makes it much easier to compare. Basically, it's like keeping notes on the situation. Keep it up!
#38

zombiegleemax

Mar 21, 2005 12:27:39
It's a great idea to post reports about the size of the gap, because it makes it much easier to compare. Basically, it's like keeping notes on the situation. Keep it up!

Why thank you. I do my best. ;)
#39

zombiegleemax

Mar 21, 2005 15:31:57
It's a great idea to post reports about the size of the gap, because it makes it much easier to compare. Basically, it's like keeping notes on the situation. Keep it up!

Not to mention it's one more post towards our total, without quite being content-free enough to really feel like cheating...
#40

kheldren

Apr 01, 2005 1:28:55
Current Gap now 3,325 (not counting this post) but come one guys - that means we only had one more post than Ravenloft overnight! We can't let our momentum get lost. :D

OK plaudits to Thorf who is still doing great work pulling in the posts (though we might want to move some of the climate/contour discussion to another thread). Actually that is a good idea - let the ones who are worried by it argue away keeping the posts ticking over nicely... :evillaugh

On the other hand, Thorf's decion to drop weekend updates, whilst totally understandable means we will have to take up the slack - so keep posting guys - this is my favourite forum anyway
#41

Cthulhudrew

Apr 01, 2005 3:22:23
I've been getting my creative juices flowing again, Mystara-wise, so I'm going to try and get some of my projects back in the mix. Maybe I'll try and provide some more regular updates, rather than waiting for completed works...
#42

zombiegleemax

Apr 01, 2005 11:02:07
I agree that the contour thread probably should be moved to its own place. I loathe to use "argue" though, I had rather thought of it more like a friendly debate or discussion, but text does lend itself to misinterpretation of emotional intent.

I believe we could use alot more posting of information not found in the books or expanding on ideas that are. I thoroughly enjoyed the Magian debate as it not only fleshed out something I had glossed over as unimportant before but forced me to do research also.

I have alot of things I would share with you all but am not sure how well it would be recieved. I thought the idea of fleshing out local foods and beverages was a great idea and posted those which I had come up with before. Now I think that thread is on the back page again and not a single other post added to it. It seems there might be alot of hangup between canon and non-canon. I say it's better to post and let others decide what they want to use and not use. The canon material we already have should be the basis of information, not the end-all/be-all. If you like something, use it. If not, then don't.

In the almanacs it talks about the Thyatian prototype airships late in the game. IMC I have a prototype flagship that I have used as early as 1002AC and it bothers me not one bit.

I have one question though. Is there a place where retired threads go? I had posted something once before and now cannot find it. It would be a shame to miss out on info because it got "stowed" somewhere.
#43

dave_l

Apr 01, 2005 12:22:37
I say it's better to post and let others decide what they want to use and not use. The canon material we already have should be the basis of information, not the end-all/be-all. If you like something, use it. If not, then don't.

That gets my vote - especially as some of the canon material is hard to get hold of. If you haven't got it, it's dificult to use it.

On the subject of your old thread - I think all the old threads are still here, it's just that without a search facility it can be difficult to find what you're looking for.
#44

zombiegleemax

Apr 01, 2005 13:23:23
I'm sure people like me, who stick entirely to OD&D and really don't care about the newer rulesets, are probably not helping the situation. Some might say that we hold Mystara back, and prevent it from gaining a new 3E audience.

I wouldn't feel too badly about this. If you and your group enjoy OD&D, why not play it?

For me, I like 3rd edition a lot. I notice it actually shares more similarities to OD&D than AD&D, in fact. (Mechanics and simple algorithms instead of chart and table-based systems.) And if Mystara wants to see print in Dragon or Dungeon again, they will have to use 3rd edition.

But on the other hand, the products available are all written for OD&D. I think this is a much bigger problem than anyone's individual attitudes. And no matter how much we convert and re-write things for the new rules, the fatc remains that the books and PDFs that are out there are all old, out of print OD&D materials.

Well, and conversion is not as cut-and-dry as that, unfortunately.

A critical mistake I see many converters do is they try and convert the original idea "as it was" without taking the new system into any kind of context. For example, take the bhut, re-introduced in the new Fiend Folio. Without having visited the boards here at the time, I would surmise there was considerable "outrage" at how it little resembled the original. Of course, what they did was redesign it to more closely match the mythology it had been derived from. And they also made it much more powerful. Because in the context of 3rd edition, they always have to have a fairly even spread of monster-CR. Just blindly converting creatures from older edition sources doesn't address the issue of monster availability balance.

I also believe that any good conversion should be the result of being played, not because it matches some canon source. I'll use another example from one of the other campaign settings: Dark Sun. There's a few sources of "Sorcerer-Kings" done by fans there, but much to my distress, they make them all absurdly-high epic-level characters, in the 50-70 range.

What's my problem? Well, if anyone's actually PLAYED epic-level in 3rd edition, you'd know that around level 40, the skill system starts to break down. It starts losing a lot of the smooth functionality that levels 1-20 have. In addition, a level 40 character could completely WIPE OUT a party of level 20 characters in a single round. So having level 50+ sorcerer-kings is more like "Dragonball Z", with your player characters taking the roles of "normals" in a world of "supers". Dark Sun is about being overpowered, but not rendered completely irrelevant.

Anyway, back to Mystara. My feelings are that the setting has good promise for a nice revitalization in Dragon or Dungeon, but that the fans must sacrifice some sacred cows.

The biggest problem Mystara faces is that it is based on an older rules set with a great number of restrictions. 3rd edition has banished those restrictions. Subsequently, re-introducing them isn't a viable concept. You have to have half-elves and gnomes. Dwarven wizards are not a problem.

Some restrictions weren't rules-based, but instead were setting-based. Glantri, for example, would be a tough place to visit if your party has clerics or dwarves. I had players who flat out refused to be from Glantri because they thought that visiting there would cause problems with the other party members.

You know how every player in a game wants to participate, and he gets frustrated when he can't? Restrictions do that. When you tell your party cleric he can't come with you because "those crazy wizards will kill you", you're really not making the game very fun for someone. If said player thrives on confrontation and enjoys it, that's one thing. Most players, though, will be annoyed because nothing in the PHB says "If you play this race/class, you will be screwed." There's enough trouble with undead encounters being cakewalks if you have a cleric, and rather rough otherwise.

So how to make a true 3rd edition Mystara? Well, my gut feeling on it is to first embrace the 3rd edition PHB completely. Allow all races and classes without restriction. Then start looking at how to intergrate and change elements in the background so that they compliment the rules set, without sacrificing what makes the setting unique and different.

Adamantyr
#45

zombiegleemax

Apr 01, 2005 13:59:38
I wouldn't feel too badly about this. If you and your group enjoy OD&D, why not play it?

I do

Some restrictions weren't rules-based, but instead were setting-based. Glantri, for example, would be a tough place to visit if your party has clerics or dwarves. I had players who flat out refused to be from Glantri because they thought that visiting there would cause problems with the other party members.

And don't forget the halflings all needed for experiments.
Half of the party I was with had to hide in the sewers to avoid those nasty wizards. Shorties learnt stilt walking. Clerics dressed like fighters and the party wizard saying be nice to him otherwise it's the authorities for us. When we left Glantri, did he get a good kickin' or what!
#46

dave_l

Apr 02, 2005 3:19:11
When we left Glantri, did he get a good kickin' or what!

Those halflings can be nasty when they're upset! :D

The stilt walking sounds fun - walking up stairs would be tricky, though.
#47

zombiegleemax

Apr 02, 2005 4:56:41
A critical mistake I see many converters do is they try and convert the original idea "as it was" without taking the new system into any kind of context. For example, take the bhut, re-introduced in the new Fiend Folio. Without having visited the boards here at the time, I would surmise there was considerable "outrage" at how it little resembled the original. Of course, what they did was redesign it to more closely match the mythology it had been derived from. And they also made it much more powerful. Because in the context of 3rd edition, they always have to have a fairly even spread of monster-CR. Just blindly converting creatures from older edition sources doesn't address the issue of monster availability balance.

Yes, but I'd like to use the converted monsters in their original settings. If the bhut is way more powerful, then Master of the Desert Nomads has to be played with higher level characters, and then everything else in it has to be boosted too - or else the bhut's power has to be cut down, but why did we bother to convert it if we then have to fiddle it to use it in the only place it originally appeared?

(Actually, when I looked at the first encounter in X4, with the trolls and the wyvern, the 3E version already seemed way tougher than the BD&D version, so maybe the whole module would just happen to be tougher anyway. But that's kind of a shame cause it was a good epic for mid-level characters.)
#48

culture20

Apr 02, 2005 11:08:01
Well, and conversion is not as cut-and-dry as that, unfortunately.

It should be; take for example Dragonlance. No HalfOrcs (a standard 3E race), because there are no Orcs on Krynn (in Weis & Hickman's vision of it at least, other authors have altered this). Also, Kender instead of Halflings, no Sorcerors, and Wizards are subject to the three moons. Will a fan of Dragonlance complain when he reads the "no Halflings" rule in a bookstore? No; rather I'd assume that if he read such a rule on the first few pages, he'd consider the writers of the book to really know what they are writing about and buy the book.

Just blindly converting creatures from older edition sources doesn't address the issue of monster availability balance.

Monster availability is irrelevant; if a DM needs a stronger monster, choose a different monster or create a new one. Don't convert a known monster into a powerhouse just because of a lack of powerhouses

I also believe that any good conversion should be the result of being played, not because it matches some canon source.

When a setting is playtested ad infinitum, then there's a problem with watering down the things that made the setting properly seperate to begin with. When only geography, history, & politics change from setting to setting, only epic level characters truelly care, as they are the only ones who tend to care about history, can alter politics, or travel grand distances daily. Oerth and Faerun always feel the same to me at low levels.

I'll use another example from one of the other campaign settings: Dark Sun. There's a few sources of "Sorcerer-Kings" done by fans there, but much to my distress, they make them all absurdly-high epic-level characters, in the 50-70 range.

In regard to the specific example here, the Sorcerer-Kings in 2E Dark Sun are almost diefic beings. To attempt to kill one _does_ mean certain death for most high level players. I too have seen bad 3E conversions though: Additions of Astral & Etherial planes to Athas just because they're in the 3E core rules.

Anyway, back to Mystara. My feelings are that the setting has good promise for a nice revitalization in Dragon or Dungeon, but that the fans must sacrifice some sacred cows.
The biggest problem Mystara faces is that it is based on an older rules set with a great number of restrictions. 3rd edition has banished those restrictions. Subsequently, re-introducing them isn't a viable concept. You have to have half-elves and gnomes. Dwarven wizards are not a problem.

As above, restrictions define a setting for lower level characters. Half-elves don't exist in the Known World, whether the Alfheim elves can't reproduce with humans, or they just won't. They reason doesn't matter because it's part of the history of the setting that half-elves don't exist. Gnomes on the other hand do (I even made a Gnome class when I DM'ed for Classic D&D in the late 80s). If a 3E concept has to be introduced, I'd probably say place another restricion: Consider 3E elves as Sorceror/Fighters, not Wizard/Fighters. This adds to the Elves' Fae feeling. Dwarves in Mystara don't use magic, just like the Dwarves on Krynn. Whether it's cultural or because of innate magic resistance is irrelevant, it's a setting restriction. Demihumans without defining rules restrictions are merely humans in different clothing.

Some restrictions weren't rules-based, but instead were setting-based.

Umm, so change the setting history or geography to reduce restrictions? Please allow me a little leeway with this one:
"Humans and Dwarves can't breath in the Undersea setting" the players whined.
"So choose an available waterbreathing race" said the DM.
"But we want to walk on land without the sea-elf HP loss".

Clearly, the players didn't want to play the Undersea setting, but didn't know how to voice that. Other than changing the water to make it breathable, there would have been no way to appease these players. Unfortunately, making the water breathable (or having the humans and dwarves breath water w/o restriction) would destroy the magic of Undersea.

You know how every player in a game wants to participate, and he gets frustrated when he can't? Restrictions do that. ... Most players, though, will be annoyed because nothing in the PHB says "If you play this race/class, you will be screwed."

That's what the setting rule book is for. _It_ would say "If you play a cleric in/near Glantri, you're screwed." It's also the DM's job to tailor the player's characters for the setting. I recently had a player want to play a Krynnish minotaur in the Savage Coast setting. I showed him Enduks, and he was okay with the compromise, although he lost some points in Con,and had to rework his history/personality. They restriction? Krynnish Minotaurs are not a race on Mystara.

So how to make a true 3rd edition Mystara? Well, my gut feeling on it is to first embrace the 3rd edition PHB completely. Allow all races and classes without restriction. Then start looking at how to intergrate and change elements in the background so that they compliment the rules set, without sacrificing what makes the setting unique and different.

Allowing all races and classes w/o restriction makes the setting nothing but "fluff" which is abhorred by most 3E players. If there's no new rules/restrictions to play with, they'd rather play on Oerth/Faerun.


Getting back closer to topic: Ravenloft had an easier time converting to 3E because it's setting was all fluff to begin with (except for the fear & insanity rules). New character classes can be pulled into the mists instantly without having to rewrite the setting history.
#49

zombiegleemax

Apr 03, 2005 0:15:14
I would have to agree here as well. There is alot of flavor that gets lost in translation. I have always felt that in almost all cases demihumans end up being "humans in different clothing" Of course with all the racial benefits as well. I can't tell you how many arguements i've gotten into with players because of level restrictions for demihumans.

On a side note humans and elves do mate on Mystara. The child generally follows the racial traits of the mother. However, there is a race that could technically be considered "half-elven". IIRC its the Yavs. But this would have ocurred over a long period of constant interbreeding and resulted in humans with strong elven traits in their genetic makeup. Now I could be wrong, its been a long time since I've read that but I am sure it was in the Champions box set.
#50

culture20

Apr 03, 2005 1:18:57
You are correct Malteen; later areas of Mystara have half-elves (i.e. Yavdlom, although they are often referred to as demi-elves). Also, the Savage Coast has half-elves (partly due to Yavdlom colonists, but also some interbreeding). I always took the introduction of half-elves to be the first conversion to 2E; I still do not allow half-elves, even in the Savage Coast, because classic D&D had no half-elves. But, even if a DM does allow half-elves, they can't be from the known world, since Alfheim/Calari/etc. elves do not interbreed with humans.
#51

zombiegleemax

Apr 03, 2005 12:47:07
It should be; take for example Dragonlance. No HalfOrcs (a standard 3E race), because there are no Orcs on Krynn (in Weis & Hickman's vision of it at least, other authors have altered this). Also, Kender instead of Halflings, no Sorcerors, and Wizards are subject to the three moons. Will a fan of Dragonlance complain when he reads the "no Halflings" rule in a bookstore? No; rather I'd assume that if he read such a rule on the first few pages, he'd consider the writers of the book to really know what they are writing about and buy the book.

Except that Dragonlance is also a popular series of novels, with an extremely large fan following. We don't have this kind of benefit. In fact, Mystara was going to be used by 2nd edition AD&D as a "starter campaign setting". Which, fortunately, was still viable in 2nd edition since most the options were identical from setting to setting. That isn't possible anymore, though, as 3rd edition removed the restrictions.

As for the small number of Mystara novels, they're good fiction, but not great fiction. I think my favorite of them is the first one. I can't recall the title and I'm in the process of moving so all my books are unavailable at the moment, but it's the story of Fain Flynn, so I'm sure everyone here knows what I'm talking about.

Also, I wouldn't hitch your flag to Dragonlance overly much as a setting... I certainly don't see a WotC hardcover for DragonLance, nor do I expect one anytime soon.

When a setting is playtested ad infinitum, then there's a problem with watering down the things that made the setting properly seperate to begin with. When only geography, history, & politics change from setting to setting, only epic level characters truelly care, as they are the only ones who tend to care about history, can alter politics, or travel grand distances daily. Oerth and Faerun always feel the same to me at low levels.

And here I was thinking that well-developed plots, thrilling stories, and interesting characters defined a game, not it's rules?

As above, restrictions define a setting for lower level characters ... Demihumans without defining rules restrictions are merely humans in different clothing.

I disagree. The paradigm of 3rd edition is about giving bonuses and abilities to some races and classes. Not restricting them. It's a subtle difference.

In 3rd edition, there is no restriction on spell-casting abilities except the related ability score must be 10 + the spell level. Adding "dwarves can't cast arcane spells" sticks out like a sore thumb.

You can still have the effect of this WITHOUT altering rules. You can say, in your setting guide "The dwarves of Rockhome hate wizards and sorcerers. As a result, they do not encourage such studies among their own people. Clandestine groups of dwarven wizards do exist, but must conceal their nature." The plague and persecution in Glantri would be one of the sources of this conflict. Then a player could be a dwarven wizard, but he'd have a much more interesting background.

That's what the setting rule book is for. _It_ would say "If you play a cleric in/near Glantri, you're screwed." It's also the DM's job to tailor the player's characters for the setting. I recently had a player want to play a Krynnish minotaur in the Savage Coast setting. I showed him Enduks, and he was okay with the compromise, although he lost some points in Con,and had to rework his history/personality. They restriction? Krynnish Minotaurs are not a race on Mystara.

Role-playing monsters has always been a sticky business... they're kind of like psionics in that respect, although much less trouble.

Using an enduk certainly works in that respect, and if the player was happy with the idea, then everything's cool. But I personally think you also missed an opportunity. While the Krynnish minotaur couldn't be implemented "as is", it could be something that could be introduced into the setting, with changes made to background to accomidate it. Then we'd have Mystaran minotaurs!

My personal feeling on it would be, I wouldn't write a single line of background. I'd just let the player into the setting, and work it out in the course of play. Certainly players and NPC's are going to ask questions, and then the player has his chance to make his mark in the setting.

Allowing all races and classes w/o restriction makes the setting nothing but "fluff" which is abhorred by most 3E players. If there's no new rules/restrictions to play with, they'd rather play on Oerth/Faerun.

Actually, what 3E players like is lots and lots of options. Not restrictions. You replace the "You can't have this/play this" philosophy with "Here's stuff you can do in our setting you can't do in others."

A good example of a setting WITH restrictions, I think, would be Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed. If you're going to muck with the rules, may as well go whole hog. At least then players won't feel like if they were playing in another setting they would have more fun.

Adamantyr
#52

zombiegleemax

Apr 03, 2005 15:29:26
You can still have the effect of this WITHOUT altering rules. You can say, in your setting guide "The dwarves of Rockhome hate wizards and sorcerers. As a result, they do not encourage such studies among their own people. Clandestine groups of dwarven wizards do exist, but must conceal their nature." The plague and persecution in Glantri would be one of the sources of this conflict. Then a player could be a dwarven wizard, but he'd have a much more interesting background.

Very interesting thoughts, IMC (ODnD) I have a secret society of dwarves who are wizards, and they have tame humans (village idiots) who they have convinced are powerful mages able to cast spells by dancing round. Of course to the general dwarves, the rumour is that they have been driven mad by magic. The players may find out at some point if their extremely lucky.
#53

culture20

Apr 03, 2005 19:00:23
Also, I wouldn't hitch your flag to Dragonlance overly much as a setting... I certainly don't see a WotC hardcover for DragonLance, nor do I expect one anytime soon.

I've seen this in stores for at least a year: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dlacc/869900000 ;)

And here I was thinking that well-developed plots, thrilling stories, and interesting characters defined a game, not it's rules?

Touche. What I meant to say is that beginning characters have no effect on their macro-environment, and thus the players care less about "where" the action is. At lower levels, rules define the _setting_ not the quality of the game.

While the Krynnish minotaur couldn't be implemented "as is", it could be something that could be introduced into the setting, with changes made to background to accomidate it. Then we'd have Mystaran minotaurs!

My intent was so that I'd not have to create a whole new race (with history, country, etc) just to accomodate a player desire.

I suppose one could reconcile spellcasting dwarves and sorcerers as the results of a Radience mishap (perhaps even WotI itself). If 3E wanted to explain such a change historicaly, and WotC set it into a canon book, I'd have a hard time refuting it. Just so long as they wouldn't rewrite Mystaran history to include such things; that'd leave a bad taste in my mouth. Half-elves? Perhaps the Shattenalfen are more genetically or socially compatible with humans so that offspring occur. There's several sacred cows put down. ;)
A Mystara Rulebook could also include an option for "Olde Tyme Role Playe," allowing the DM to consider restrictions when playing an older time period of Mystara.

Side note:
I'm curious about 3E now that you've mentioned that there are _no_ restrictions, only bonuses. What would prompt one to play human instead of getting infravision & racial bonuses?
#54

zombiegleemax

Apr 03, 2005 23:20:13
I've seen this in stores for at least a year: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dlacc/869900000 ;)

Ah, I stand corrected. Still, when you have a best-selling series of novels supporting you, you can justify restrictions because players will fall over each other to play things "just like the books".

Touche. What I meant to say is that beginning characters have no effect on their macro-environment, and thus the players care less about "where" the action is. At lower levels, rules define the _setting_ not the quality of the game.

In OD&D, this may be the case. 3rd edition, though, strives to make the players capable of affecting their environment from day one. You'd find the number of customization options are far greater, and so you'd have much more dynamic characters. In this case, restrictions become a true penalty, rather than a guide-rail.

My intent was so that I'd not have to create a whole new race (with history, country, etc) just to accomodate a player desire.

An understandable sentiment... still, role-playing is all about interactivity, a collective story-telling. Why not let the players do some of the footwork for you?

Side note:
I'm curious about 3E now that you've mentioned that there are _no_ restrictions, only bonuses. What would prompt one to play human instead of getting infravision & racial bonuses?

Humans get 4 bonus skill points and a bonus feat at 1st level, and they gain 1 additional bonus skill point per level, regardless of class. This reflects their adaptability and well-rounded nature. This gives human characters a nice edge over demi-humans, as they can follow feat trees earlier and they got more skill points to spread about.

Also, dwarves and half-orcs have darkvision, which allows you to see in the dark. Elves, half-elves, and gnomes only have low-light vision, which allows them to see twice as far as a human does in moonlight and torchlight, but they're as blind in the dark as a human is.

Adamantyr
#55

zombiegleemax

Apr 04, 2005 0:49:53
I don't remember offhand what product it was (probably Alfheim GAZ) but Alfheim and Callarii elves DO interbreed with humans, however, it does not lead to what we would consider a "half-elf". If the mother is human so will be the child with maybe some "elfin" features. If the mother is elven then so will be the child who might be taller or grow a beard. Cosmetically this resembles what we call a "half-elf" but the rules governing this offspring do not. It would conform to the rules dictated for which race it takes after elf or human.

I used the Yavs as an example of something alot closer to what we consider a "half-elven" race. Although, I might argue that these still do not conform to the rules associated with that race.

I may be in a minority here but I am not impressed with 3e rules at all. The only redeeming factor IMO is the "cleaner math". Other than that it smacks of powergaming players who want wizards with swords and fighters who buff themselves without the sticky rules of multiclassing or dual classing. Like 2e wasn't overpowering enough? Time and again I find myself in debate with players over rules because they are trying to make the "killer build". In the days of OD&D when the average character may not have any scores above 15 really made you learn that it wasnt your scores that mattered but how you roleplayed it. Nowadays players can wade through a horde of orcs in minutes but could't roleplay their way out of a wet paper bag. If there isn't a roll to get them out of trouble, forget it, it's game over. 3E is all about making everything possible, which is more of a benefit to marketing than roleplaying.

If we are gonna allow any combination of race and class then why are we bothering with Mystara? Why not go play Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk? They are "generic" enough to allow this.
#56

zombiegleemax

Apr 04, 2005 1:12:21
I may be in a minority here but I am not impressed with 3e rules at all. The only redeeming factor IMO is the "cleaner math". Other than that it smacks of powergaming players who want wizards with swords and fighters who buff themselves without the sticky rules of multiclassing or dual classing. Like 2e wasn't overpowering enough? Time and again I find myself in debate with players over rules because they are trying to make the "killer build". In the days of OD&D when the average character may not have any scores above 15 really made you learn that it wasnt your scores that mattered but how you roleplayed it. Nowadays players can wade through a horde of orcs in minutes but could't roleplay their way out of a wet paper bag. If there isn't a roll to get them out of trouble, forget it, it's game over. 3E is all about making everything possible, which is more of a benefit to marketing than roleplaying.

It all depends on the players, really. I definitely agree on the powergaming problem. This, though, has always happened, regardless of the system. I think it's gotten more noticable thanks to computer games, where there are ONLY rules, and no GM to dictate anything. As a result, you have a class of player who is only familiar with a 100% rules system.

So don't blame just the rules system of 3rd edition for the lack of role-playing... it could just be your players don't know any other way to play. Which is where the DM comes in. Aside from maybe some nice "Roleplaying 101" advice, he can also design his games so that RP is rewarded, while the use of combat is minimized. The idea here is that 3rd edition provides a solid rules framework you can utilize as you see fit.

This is also a reason why a DM should be more than just a rules-arbitrator... if a computer could do it, then the human element is lost, and you may as well just be playing a computer game.

If we are gonna allow any combination of race and class then why are we bothering with Mystara? Why not go play Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk? They are "generic" enough to allow this.

I think what you should ask yourself is, why bother with Mystara if you can't play a particular combination that you want? As I said above, with the greater number of players, they're going to assume everything in the PHB is allowed. And if you are introducing restrictions, what remains has to have something pretty special about it to make people want to play this game over that Greyhawk or Realms game at the next table.

Of course, nothing's stopping anyone from continuing with OD&D, or using any rules system you want. (FUDGE is very good for RP, and it was created by Ann Dupuis, an old Mystara veteran.)

However, if you want Mystara to be featured in an article in Dungeon or Dragon, you have to use 3rd edition. What they'll be interested in is "what kind of things does this add to 3rd edition to make it fresh and interesting?" Consider the lupin article. A new race, playable in any setting.

Adamantyr
#57

weasel_fierce

Apr 04, 2005 4:05:25
In regards to limitations... A concept of game design (though it was originally coined for wargames, I believe) is that its not always what you CAN do, but what you CANNOT do, that defines you.

I have no problems with, for example, mystaran dwarves (or dwarves in general) not being spellcasters, because it lends them more flavour and makes them more interesting (and offers the question, WHY cant they be spellcasters ? Cue campaign explanation here, for those inclined)
#58

zombiegleemax

Apr 04, 2005 10:04:22
Current Gap Update: 3,290.
#59

kheldren

Apr 04, 2005 10:16:45
Ah good - back on topic We seem to be catching up nicely, but has anyone bothered to work out the rate of catchup? - i.ee if we keep this up when do we pass them?
#60

havard

Apr 04, 2005 11:52:20
Ah good - back on topic We seem to be catching up nicely, but has anyone bothered to work out the rate of catchup? - i.ee if we keep this up when do we pass them?

Good question! I'd love to see some statistical prognosis on this one. :D

Håvard
#61

Cthulhudrew

Apr 04, 2005 19:12:25
Good question! I'd love to see some statistical prognosis on this one.

Me, too. FWIW, we're down to a gap of 3,269 as of this post.
#62

culture20

Apr 04, 2005 23:33:16
According to my simple spreadsheet skills, and even worse powers of mathematical analysis, it looks like mid to late August.
Time (EST) Post Gap Avg. Posts per day<br /> 03/03/2005 09:27:00 4000 Not enough data<br /> 03/17/2005 18:11:00 3526 33<br /> 03/21/2005 09:47:00 3500 7.12<br /> 04/01/2005 01:28:00 3325 16.43<br /> 04/04/2005 10:04:00 3290 10.42<br /> 04/04/2005 19:12:00 3269 55.18<br /> 04/04/2005 23:40:00 3250 102.09<br /> <br /> Non linear Used wrong Calculations. <br /> linear 08/24/05 05:16 am 0 23.01
#63

Hugin

Apr 04, 2005 23:40:56
According to my simple spreadsheet skills, and even worse powers of mathematical analysis, it looks like mid to late August.

Wow. I don't know if we can hold this pace for that long but I am confident that we will pass it eventually. The last 24 hours or so things went ballistic.

Unless someone beat me with another post, this one marks a gap of 3250!
#64

thorf

Apr 05, 2005 1:29:35
I averaged 3 posts a day since I joined up in January, although my quota has probably fallen slightly in the past week or so. We can do it!! :D
#65

zombiegleemax

Apr 05, 2005 18:05:21
Here's me contributing to the effort.
#66

zombiegleemax

Apr 05, 2005 23:36:34
Perhaps it's time to start posting about *my* secret project...
#67

Hugin

Apr 05, 2005 23:47:28
Perhaps it's time to start posting about *my* secret project...

What fun are secrets if you can't tell people about them, right? So come on, spill the beans. I have know! You can't back out now, it's too late! We know, and now you know we know, you know?
#68

havard

Apr 06, 2005 8:03:46
Perhaps it's time to start posting about *my* secret project...

Grmph!
Now *I* want a secret project too...

:heehee

Håvard
#69

culture20

Apr 06, 2005 12:54:38
3195 as I type this. Keep posting the gap every [other] day, and the statistical projection will get better with more data. ;)
#70

culture20

Apr 07, 2005 1:16:41
3187
#71

zombiegleemax

Apr 07, 2005 10:26:05
You know what do I find the most encourging?
Everytime I enter the board it tells me that there are 6 people viewing, 7 people viewing... When I just arrived here, if we had 2 people on-line at the same time it seemed crowded. "8 people viewing" was a DragonLance feature to envy!
And some of these people are guests - i.e. not the "regular" faces. It seems as if this might have a slightly wider affect than we think!
#72

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Apr 07, 2005 13:42:04
I'd like to think Mystara is far more interesting than Dragonlance... :D
#73

zombiegleemax

Apr 07, 2005 16:47:00
I'm surprised about how popular Dragonlance is on the boards. I'm thinking most of that comes from the popularity of the books, but I've never really played a Dragonlance campaign that was all that interesting.
#74

Hugin

Apr 07, 2005 18:01:20
You know what do I find the most encourging?
Everytime I enter the board it tells me that there are 6 people viewing, 7 people viewing... When I just arrived here, if we had 2 people on-line at the same time it seemed crowded. "8 people viewing" was a DragonLance feature to envy!
And some of these people are guests - i.e. not the "regular" faces. It seems as if this might have a slightly wider affect than we think!

You're not kidding, Lost W! As Thorf once said, I check the boards every time I sit down at the computer, and there seems to almost always new posts. Sometimes half a dozen threads with multiple posts await me for reading! It's great! By this time next year I think we'll be #3 on the Other Roleplaying Worlds HQ.
#75

zombiegleemax

Apr 07, 2005 18:07:27
I've never had a huge urge to play a Dragonlance campaign, but it's not a bad setting. I don't begrudge that or Ravenloft or the others their popularity - the only one I really dislike is the Forgotten Realms. I don't know it much except through computer games, but it feels incredibly bland and generic to me. So much so that - well, that deserves its own thread, I think. And I gotta go now, so it'll have to wait.
#76

culture20

Apr 08, 2005 20:18:35
3148 away from Ravenloft, 4975 away from Planescape :D
#77

dave_l

Apr 09, 2005 3:50:06
3148 away from Ravenloft, 4975 away from Planescape :D

Now that's what I call ambitious!

Let battle commence! :fight!:
#78

culture20

Apr 10, 2005 0:34:11
Ravenloft gap: 3130
Planescape gap: 4969
The PS gap _is_ lowering...
#79

zombiegleemax

Apr 10, 2005 4:46:45
Okay, one reason why Mystara appeals to me more than Forgotten Realms. Mystara isn't as over-developed.

Forgetton Realms has just been over-worked, and yet somehow remains awefully generic. I think Forgotten Realms just needs to be compiled into one big source material and then be left alone.

Mystara presents many possibilities in it's own context. Unfortunately, the drive to for generic settings has gotten it left on the wayside.
#80

kheldren

Apr 11, 2005 9:36:29
Ravenloft: 3116

They seem to be posting again, most unhelpful of them
#81

kheldren

Apr 13, 2005 2:06:31
3,098 - we have finally broken the 3,100 barrier - now we have to go for the 3,000 barrier.

(Oh Planescape - 4,938)
#82

zombiegleemax

Apr 13, 2005 2:12:48
I believe the fact that the Mystara Boards are more active nowadays is also partially linked to the fact the Mystara Mailing List seems to be dormant. There has probably been a switch to this way of exchanging ideas and messages in the last period because people find it more user friendly and doesn't load your already SPAM-filled mailbox with other stuff .

That said, I hope you'll excuse me but I have to post something over the RL boards :D :P ;)
#83

zombiegleemax

Apr 13, 2005 2:22:53
I believe the fact that the Mystara Boards are more active nowadays is also partially linked to the fact the Mystara Mailing List seems to be dormant. There has probably been a switch to this way of exchanging ideas and messages in the last period because people find it more user friendly and doesn't load your already SPAM-filled mailbox with other stuff .

That said, I hope you'll excuse me but I have to post something over the RL boards :D :P ;)

Just so long as you tell us here every time you do that so you're gap-neutral.
#84

zombiegleemax

Apr 13, 2005 4:26:32
Okay, it's a deal.... :D ;)
#85

gazza555

Apr 14, 2005 5:49:31
Here are the differences between the Mystara board and some of the other boards. As you can see we are closing (however slowly) with all the boards except the Dark Sun board.
[HTML] 23rd March 14th April
13:00 GMT 11:20 GMT
Dragonlance 34,632 34,628
Dark Sun 20,780 21,302
Greyhawk 9,419 9,270
Planescape 5,229 4,915
Ravenloft 3,459 3,079[/HTML]

Regards,
Gary
#86

zombiegleemax

Apr 14, 2005 7:02:36
WOW!!! I'm gone for awhile and all of a sudden we're 14 posts(13 now) away from 5000! Incredible.
#87

zombiegleemax

Apr 14, 2005 10:10:24
Unless someone just beat me to it this is post 5000!
#88

culture20

Apr 14, 2005 18:33:42
Ravenloft: 3046
Planescape: 4884
#89

Hugin

Apr 16, 2005 12:10:55
Ravenloft is just 3000 away as of this post!
#90

culture20

Apr 17, 2005 23:07:02
Ravenloft: 2979
Planescape: 4813
#91

kheldren

Apr 19, 2005 5:28:21
It's been over 24 hours since the last update so:

Ravenloft: 2954
Planescape: 4779
#92

marc

Apr 20, 2005 23:25:55
It does seem like we've picked up a head of steam of late.
#93

Hugin

Apr 20, 2005 23:33:27
It does seem like we've picked up a head of steam of late.

A LOT of steam!

Ravenloft: 2892
Planescape: 4708
#94

zombiegleemax

Apr 21, 2005 0:10:15
Well, all we need to do is have some stubborn ass, like yours truly, continually bring up things like "We need to do a proper 3rd edition conversion" and also make controversial statements like "Immortals suck", "Dwarven wizards rock" and the big kicker, "Bruce Heard? Never heard of him."

Then we should have no problem overtaking Ravenloft's post count. :D

Adamantyr
#95

weasel_fierce

Apr 21, 2005 0:11:46
I'll start it off. Ahem.

Immortals suck!
#96

zombiegleemax

Apr 21, 2005 7:02:08
Ylaruam makes no sense next to Vestland!
#97

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Apr 21, 2005 8:29:26
I want a Rockhome campaign swarming with multiclass Dwarven Wizards/Sorcerors!
#98

havard

Apr 21, 2005 8:38:44
Here is my go:

AD&D2 Mystara is the best version of Mystara ever! And Those CD rock!

Håvard
#99

zombiegleemax

Apr 21, 2005 9:03:53
The world is better off without Alphatia!
#100

zombiegleemax

Apr 21, 2005 10:00:44
And also:
A world without Drow?
#101

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Apr 21, 2005 10:50:00
Where is Drizzit? Why can't I play a good, dual scimitar wielding Drow ranger in Karameikos?
#102

weasel_fierce

Apr 21, 2005 13:06:21
Karameikos was a dumb setting, and I think it should be changed so its ruled by a half-golem paladin.
#103

zombiegleemax

Apr 21, 2005 13:17:15
Frankly? I can't see what's the big difference between Mystara and Forgotten Realms.

(This thread begins to have some therapeutic effect, does it not? :D )
#104

jtrithen

Apr 21, 2005 14:19:55
Good one -- I like that one, Woodrake!

Who is the all-seeing wizard archetype associated with the setting for Mystara (in the tradition of Mordenkainen, Elminster, and Dalamar)?
#105

kheldren

Apr 21, 2005 15:45:21
Who is the all-seeing wizard archetype associated with the setting for Mystara (in the tradition of Mordenkainen, Elminster, and Dalamar)?

Easy - Prince Ettienne D'Ambreville

He is just a lot more subtle about it (and a LOT more powerful of course).

Actually that is a good point, Mystara lets the players be the uber-characters that sort out other people's problems.

OK my turn: the balance is wrong - why aren't the elves ruling everything?
(Weak I know, but it was the best I could think of, and if you read the horrible houserules thread it makes more sense.)
#106

zombiegleemax

Apr 21, 2005 15:53:54
OK my turn: the balance is wrong - why aren't the elves ruling everything?
(Weak I know, but it was the best I could think of, and if you read the horrible houserules thread it makes more sense.)

Cause they only go up to Level 10! Really, it's the other way around - how come the mightiest Dwarven hero's only as good as a mid-level human fighter?

And you wanna see a world where the Elves really should be ruling everything? 1st Edition Warhammer FRP - there are a couple of important stats where the minimum Elven score is higher than the max human score.
#107

Hugin

Apr 21, 2005 17:30:50
Ewwww, Bargle the Infamous, sounds scary, I bet he must be that 1/4 silver dragon, 1/4 mindflayer, 1/2 Rambo guy I've heard about!

(This IS therapeutic! And I NEED it!)
#108

culture20

Apr 21, 2005 19:44:34
Mystara's message board is 2845 posts behind Ravenloft, and 4660 behind Planescape. That campaign must not be popular. It's probably due to its non-planescape-standard cosmology.

And a hollow world? Okay, Mystara is played only by UFO nuts.
#109

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Apr 21, 2005 20:18:50
I doesn't matter what I do, Elminister will come and clean up the mess or take all the credit anyway....
#110

maddog

Apr 22, 2005 17:54:53
Here's one. Why does Mystara not have any unique cultures? Everything is sooooo generic!!

--Ray.
#111

zombiegleemax

Apr 23, 2005 16:25:04
Big Cats, witches, is this a C.S. Lewis appreciation society
#112

culture20

Apr 23, 2005 23:08:56
The latest data predict Sept. 03 2005 09:52 AM as the time we will match Ravenloft.
I'm only doing a linear regression; I was going to try and do a multi-polynomial trendline, but then I realized there's not really a function that can be generated from past data which will predict people's actions in the future. Even a linear function is wrong, but it gives me something to do. ;)
#113

zombiegleemax

Apr 24, 2005 4:32:26
The latest data predict Sept. 03 2005 09:52 AM as the time we will match Ravenloft.
I'm only doing a linear regression; I was going to try and do a multi-polynomial trendline, but then I realized there's not really a function that can be generated from past data which will predict people's actions in the future. Even a linear function is wrong, but it gives me something to do. ;)

Hey, what kind of a complaint is that?

(The Northern Reaches cosmology contradicts the rest of the world entirely!)
#114

culture20

Apr 24, 2005 18:20:38
Hey, what kind of a complaint is that?

The worst thing about Mystara? Its fans can't even come up with good complaints! :P
#115

Hugin

Apr 25, 2005 23:30:19
Ravenloft: 2829
Planescape: 4605

It seems we're gaining on Planescape faster than we're gaining on Ravenloft. (Hope they didn't see this thread )

The worst thing about Mystara? Its fans can't even come up with good complaints!

It's true! Mine sucked!
#116

chatdemon

Apr 26, 2005 9:55:56
I'm sure people like me, who stick entirely to OD&D and really don't care about the newer rulesets, are probably not helping the situation. Some might say that we hold Mystara back, and prevent it from gaining a new 3E audience.

OTOH, folks like us who stick to OD&D (If by "OD&D" you mean Basic, Expert, etc. I personally use the Cyclopedia version) provide Myst... ahem, Known World , with a built in audience that isn't likely to wander far. Even when I'm campaigning in Greyhawk, which I was until recently, I find myself visiting the Mystara forums and lists because, simply put, there's no other setting where I'm going to find many people who play the version of the game I play. Now that I'm getting ready to start a new campaign in Karameikos, I'll try and post here too.
#117

havard

Apr 26, 2005 10:03:39
OTOH, folks like us who stick to OD&D (If by "OD&D" you mean Basic, Expert, etc. I personally use the Cyclopedia version) provide Myst... ahem, Known World , with a built in audience that isn't likely to wander far. Even when I'm campaigning in Greyhawk, which I was until recently, I find myself visiting the Mystara forums and lists because, simply put, there's no other setting where I'm going to find many people who play the version of the game I play. Now that I'm getting ready to start a new campaign in Karameikos, I'll try and post here too.

Cool Chatdemon!

I think the Setting is what keeps us all together regardless of what rulesystem we use. I have used 6 different rule systems with Mystara and would gladly discuss any of them (or others) in association with Mystara. Most discussions here are setting only discussions anyway, so they should appeal to everyone, even though the occational conversion to 3E thread comes along.

Håvard
#118

kheldren

Apr 27, 2005 2:20:15
Ok - last update on the gap was about 28 hours ago so:

Planescape: 4,575
Ravenloft: 2,805

Happy Posting.
#119

Hugin

Apr 27, 2005 7:28:13
Now that I'm getting ready to start a new campaign in Karameikos, I'll try and post here too.

Great to have you a-board! (Pardon the pun ;) )
#120

chatdemon

Apr 27, 2005 8:53:23
Most discussions here are setting only discussions anyway, so they should appeal to everyone, even though the occational conversion to 3E thread comes along.

Given the overwhelming popularity of 3e right now, I'm resigned to accept some discussion of it, even in settings it completely ignores. There's enough rules-less discussion and OOP editions topics here to keep me happy though.

Also lacking is the "Play 3e or die" attitude I've seen in the Greyhawk and FR forums. Which is a good thing, IMO.
#121

havard

Apr 27, 2005 9:38:58
Given the overwhelming popularity of 3e right now, I'm resigned to accept some discussion of it, even in settings it completely ignores. There's enough rules-less discussion and OOP editions topics here to keep me happy though.

Also lacking is the "Play 3e or die" attitude I've seen in the Greyhawk and FR forums. Which is a good thing, IMO.

I like the openness around here where rules systems are concerned too. As I said I'd be happy to discuss how to use any system with Mystara. Mystara fans have always been a tolerant bunch, at least to my experience, nothing like what I have observed when I have dropped by other forums like the ones you mention.

Håvard
#122

dave_l

Apr 27, 2005 10:30:11
Given the overwhelming popularity of 3e right now, I'm resigned to accept some discussion of it, even in settings it completely ignores. There's enough rules-less discussion and OOP editions topics here to keep me happy though.

Also lacking is the "Play 3e or die" attitude I've seen in the Greyhawk and FR forums. Which is a good thing, IMO.

I'm just looking forward to them bringing out 4e and everyone screaming about having to modify everything again! :D
#123

zombiegleemax

Apr 27, 2005 17:09:01
I like the openness around here where rules systems are concerned too. As I said I'd be happy to discuss how to use any system with Mystara.
Håvard

Looking at the age poll, most of us appear old enough to have played many different systems, and what draws us to Mystara is that most of the gaz's and later modules are Fluff, fluff and more fluff, with a bit of crunch to demonstrate that the core rules could and would be extended if the fluff demanded it.

This then gives us enough flavour to run a campaign, but lots of room to maneuver the campaign in the direction required for the story line we want, with the ruleset just being a way to add another flavour e.g. Runequest rules for the time of Halav, C&S for a more feudal feel, after a misjump "Traveller" characters getting a shock with the high/low tech world.
#124

kheldren

Apr 28, 2005 2:21:52
after a misjump "Traveller" characters getting a shock with the high/low tech world.

Funny you should say that, I once started working on a Traveller campaign where one of the worlds would be a sword and sorcery world worked by psionics where the inhabitants didn't know the difference between psionics and magic. I think I was using the 4th Ed rules so a "fireball" would be an object swap from some huge fires kept continuously burning under the main wizards stronghold...
Anyway I never thought of using an established world for the purpose - now that would be fun, especially if they can't just jump back and need help to avoid becoming a second Beagle...
#125

zombiegleemax

Apr 28, 2005 15:55:18
I'm just looking forward to them bringing out 4e and everyone screaming about having to modify everything again! :D

Ugh. From my position this is the last thing I want.

So how's the gap between us and the Ravenloft folk looking?
#126

dave_l

Apr 28, 2005 16:35:05
Ugh. From my position this is the last thing I want.

So how's the gap between us and the Ravenloft folk looking?

Sorry about that. :D

The gap is now 2743 - slow but sure.
#127

zombiegleemax

Apr 28, 2005 19:03:30
It's all good.

Thanks for the post count!
#128

Cthulhudrew

Apr 29, 2005 17:46:13
Ravenloft- 2,693
Planescape- 4,465
#129

Hugin

Apr 29, 2005 18:05:54
Let's see... back on March the 17th, Lost Woodrake posted the first exact number of the gap between us and Ravenloft; it was 3526!

Cthulhudrew's update means that in 43 days we were able to gain 833 posts on them. That's an average gain of 19.37 posts per day!

That is truely AMAZING!!! Kept at that rate we'd surpass them in 140 days, making it Saturday the 17th of September! Let's BEAT that date!
#130

zombiegleemax

Apr 30, 2005 14:08:47
Wow, I remember joining these boards and they were barely active at all. I remember posting my butt off trying to get them revived, I even went to other types of forums and tried getting people to come here. I also remember dreaming of catching RL. I hated that Mystara was the bottom feeder when I arrived. No longer! I am back and witha vengence. I'll be starting a new campaign in the Known World somewhere, but I haven't decided where. I'll pick a spot after my players make their characters in June. In the meantime I have lots of planning.


I like the openness around here where rules systems are concerned too. As I said I'd be happy to discuss how to use any system with Mystara. Mystara fans have always been a tolerant bunch, at least to my experience, nothing like what I have observed when I have dropped by other forums like the ones you mention.

Håvard

I'm glad you like the openness. I haven't used a D&D rulebook in sometime. I use all the Mystara based material, including the Cyclopedia as reference and convert everything to RoleMaster. I don't know why, but that system has just stuck with me for quite some time and it works so well in Mystara, which is the only setting I truly enjoy playinga full campaign. The options are limitless.
#131

zombiegleemax

May 01, 2005 15:34:05
Funny you should say that, I once started working on a Traveller campaign where one of the worlds would be a sword and sorcery world worked by psionics where the inhabitants didn't know the difference between psionics and magic. I think I was using the 4th Ed rules so a "fireball" would be an object swap from some huge fires kept continuously burning under the main wizards stronghold...
Anyway I never thought of using an established world for the purpose - now that would be fun, especially if they can't just jump back and need help to avoid becoming a second Beagle...

The original misjump was to greyhawk, in DnD we had just finished S3, but the players didn't twig for a couple of sessions, when they arrived at a planet, they wanted a small valley, with a lake or river near the moutains, and so landed in the Valley of the Mage.
#132

Hugin

May 02, 2005 19:56:12
Time for an update!

Ravenloft: 2656
Planescape: 4442

I am back and witha vengence.

Hey, good to have you back, it's been a while!
#133

kheldren

May 05, 2005 2:25:39
hmm, a bit over 54.5 hours since the last update...

Ravenloft: 2612 (48 less than before)
Planescape: 4411 ((31 less than before)
#134

zombiegleemax

May 06, 2005 6:46:57
I figure, why not a daily update?

Ravenloft: 2575 (37 less than yesterday)
Planescape: 4377 (34 less than yesterday)

That is a nice move in one day guys.

I'm going to have to finish the Civ3 Mod project so I can get some serious planning with my Mystara campaign and then post all the ideas and details up on this forum. ;)
#135

dave_l

May 06, 2005 18:39:40
I'm going to have to finish the Civ3 Mod project so I can get some serious planning with my Mystara campaign and then post all the ideas and details up on this forum. ;)

It's been a long while since I played Civ3, but I had a look at some of the details and I notice your mod is in beta testing. Could you post a note here when it's finished please, as I would love to give it a spin and see what you've done.
#136

zombiegleemax

May 06, 2005 19:30:00
Sure will. It hopefully won't be long, but it is not quite the same as the standard Civ3 game. More units and buildings for starters. Don't be surprised though, a lot of stuff was altered to fit the graphix I could get, and some of the history of Mystara altered to fit the mod. Some of my own invention and some not.
#137

Cthulhudrew

May 08, 2005 5:37:53
Ravenloft: 2,544
Planescape: 4,348

And we continue to gain. At one point, weren't we about 4,000 behind Ravenloft?
#138

culture20

May 08, 2005 6:42:42
4000 was the first posted gap in this thread (March 3rd, 2005).
#139

Hugin

May 08, 2005 11:44:43
And we continue to gain. At one point, weren't we about 4,000 behind Ravenloft?

4000 was the first posted gap in this thread (March 3rd, 2005).

No matter how many times I look at it, this still blows my mind!
#140

Cthulhudrew

May 10, 2005 18:18:26
Not including this post:

Ravenloft- 2,492
Planescape- 4,300
#141

zombiegleemax

May 10, 2005 18:38:52
No matter how many times I look at it, this still blows my mind!

Me too! That is a very fast gain. I remember whn the gap was far more than that. I remember getting excited when we passed Spelljammer. I never would have thought that RL would ever get this close. I weep with joy.
#142

gazza555

May 13, 2005 7:30:49
Update: (not including this post)

Ravenloft: 2463
Planescape: 4276

Gary
#143

zombiegleemax

May 13, 2005 9:27:46
If we really want to catch up, we should restrict ourselves to one word per post.

R.A.
#144

zombiegleemax

May 13, 2005 9:28:46
Like
#145

zombiegleemax

May 13, 2005 9:29:28
this.
#146

graywolf-elm

May 13, 2005 10:36:41
I have a suggestion that may or may not be interesting to you.

One of you fine GM's that has some time, start a thread that is a Play by Post game from The Known World.

I'm assuming most of us have heard of them, and participated in one or two. Maybe not.

I've seen post counts soar with one or two of these going, with just 4 players.

I'm running one based out of the Minrothad Isles, on our local gaming board, currently paused, 330 posts in six topics over a few months.

Multiple posts in the setup phase, and character postings, Each player posts their character's actions, the DM posts what happens, or what is sensed.

Can be played worldwide.

Plus 4 lucky players get a taste of the game again.

Just a thought. I'd start one, if I wasn't already full up. And danged if people don't keep asking me to start up a Broken Lands Play by Post game.

GW
#147

lonewolf

May 13, 2005 10:57:49
@Greywolf:
Although that would benefit us to catch up with Ravenloft, there is a seperate section in this Forum for that, and all PbP games should be made there. Im very active in this section and I know that there are at least 4 games running that are taking place in Mystara. One of them I DM myself.
#148

graywolf-elm

May 13, 2005 11:56:09
@Greywolf:
Although that would benefit us to catch up with Ravenloft, there is a seperate section in this Forum for that, and all PbP games should be made there. Im very active in this section and I know that there are at least 4 games running that are taking place in Mystara. One of them I DM myself.

Ahh, a centralized place for it. I'll have to go visit.

Thanks,
GW
#149

graywolf-elm

May 13, 2005 14:38:40
@Greywolf:
Although that would benefit us to catch up with Ravenloft, there is a seperate section in this Forum for that, and all PbP games should be made there. Im very active in this section and I know that there are at least 4 games running that are taking place in Mystara. One of them I DM myself.

lonewolf, where is that? I've searched through the Wizards.COMmunity Boards and not found this yet. Either I'm really missing something, or it is not obvious.

:D Nevermind. I found it. Now to wait for a Mystara game to show up.

GW
#150

lonewolf

May 13, 2005 15:56:23
waiting for a Mystara game will probably take a good while. As I said there are probably only 4 Mystara games running at the moment with about 140 other games running, but if there are more interested people here I could post a short notice on this board as soon as I see a new one.
#151

gazza555

May 16, 2005 6:41:19
It's been a few days, so...

Ravenloft: 2414
Planescape: 4221
#152

Hugin

May 18, 2005 19:15:53
Time for another update... just... because...

Ravenloft: 2367 (-47)
Planescape: 4183 (-38)
#153

zombiegleemax

May 18, 2005 19:32:08
I missed the point where we started competing with Planescape as well. That one seems a might bit harder. ;)

Where do we stand v. Birthright?
#154

zombiegleemax

May 18, 2005 20:09:12
Where do we stand v. Birthright?

We have about 15 times as many posts as them.
#155

culture20

May 18, 2005 20:49:36
We've been steadily gaining on both Ravenloft and Planescape. Planescape isn't as active as it used to be...
#156

Cthulhudrew

May 21, 2005 22:42:49
Ravenloft: 2,331
Planescape: 4,160
#157

gazza555

May 25, 2005 7:05:12
Ravenloft: 2299
Planescape: 4119

and Mystara's approaching 6000 posts, could make it this week :D
#158

zombiegleemax

May 25, 2005 10:05:27
Woot! Go Mystara! Kick those young whippersnappers' butts.
#159

zombiegleemax

May 25, 2005 14:59:34
Ravenloft: 2299
Planescape: 4119

and Mystara's approaching 6000 posts, could make it this week :D

When we hit 2000 away from Ravenloft there should be a little announcement made on the Vaults. ;)

Ditto when we hit 10K total posts.
#160

stanles

May 25, 2005 21:30:49
When we hit 2000 away from Ravenloft there should be a little announcement made on the Vaults. ;)

Ditto when we hit 10K total posts.

sounds like as good an idea for a news flash as anything
#161

zombiegleemax

May 26, 2005 16:01:36
Definatly an announcement when we hit the 10k mark. That is monumental for a product that has been out of print longer than most others. At least the good stuff was out of print long ago. The only thing left good is Dragon and the Vaults. ;)
#162

stanles

May 26, 2005 18:29:50
Definatly an announcement when we hit the 10k mark. That is monumental for a product that has been out of print longer than most others. At least the good stuff was out of print long ago. The only thing left good is Dragon and the Vaults. ;)

still a long way of 10K though
#163

zombiegleemax

May 27, 2005 19:46:13
I dare to dream.

Here is the daily update:

Mystara: 5950

Ravenloft: 2278 ahead
Planescape: 4090 ahead
#164

zombiegleemax

May 30, 2005 11:41:38
Another update a couple days later. What's up guys? Everybody on vacation?

Mystara: 5968

Ravenloft: 2268
Planescape: 4074

We didn't make much of a dent that last couple days. I need to get on the ball.
#165

thorf

May 30, 2005 13:11:48
Sometimes things seem to slow down a bit at the weekend. I'm sure we'll get back on track. I started my daily maps again today, so that ought to help things along a bit, although I don't know how long I can keep it up this time.
#166

Hugin

May 30, 2005 17:21:45
Ya, I've noticed we kind-a die out on the weekends, but I've also noticed we come back with a bang on Mondays! :D
#167

culture20

May 30, 2005 22:09:46
And for those of us in the U.S. this weekend was a holiday weekend; today (Monday) is Memorial Day.
#168

zombiegleemax

May 31, 2005 4:40:29
Uhm.. yeah, whatever... (I'm just trying to make volume here :p )
and don't forget to add more riddles in the Riddles topic, that could help us incredibly in rising against the Titans ;)
#169

dave_l

May 31, 2005 4:54:14
And for those of us in the U.S. this weekend was a holiday weekend; today (Monday) is Memorial Day.

Monday was a Bank Holiday in the UK too - my wife made me work in the garden!

Worse than that - the children are on holiday all week, and want to play on the computer!
#170

Hugin

May 31, 2005 18:55:01
I know it hasn't been very long since the last update, but I thought I'd point out that we pasted the 6000 post mark! I never would have imagined this a year ago! :invasion:
#171

zombiegleemax

May 31, 2005 19:01:20
I'm still amazed we passed the 1000 mark. You could say I'm in shock?
#172

RPGpundit

May 31, 2005 23:10:42
I'm a huge Mystara fan who's only just joined today. I'm currently running a classic D&D (Rules Cyclopedia version) campaign in Mystara.

And if my history of posting ratios in other fora are any measure (I've just done 112 posts in the Blue Rose forums in under 2 months, and that's slow compared to what I managed back when I was at RPG.net or Enworld), we should have no problem beating those pretentious goth posers over at Ravenloft or the pseudointellectual punks over at Planescape. :D

;)

RPGpundit
#173

kheldren

Jun 01, 2005 2:12:00
My turn to update I think...
Mystara: 6025
Ravenloft: 8248
so gap = 2223
(or counting this post 2222)
#174

havard

Jun 01, 2005 6:29:24
I'm a huge Mystara fan who's only just joined today. I'm currently running a classic D&D (Rules Cyclopedia version) campaign in Mystara.

And if my history of posting ratios in other fora are any measure (I've just done 112 posts in the Blue Rose forums in under 2 months, and that's slow compared to what I managed back when I was at RPG.net or Enworld), we should have no problem beating those pretentious goth posers over at Ravenloft or the pseudointellectual punks over at Planescape. :D

Hello RPGpundit!

Welcome to our small community. We are always happy to have more members. If you enjoy discussions about Mystara, you might also want to join the Mystara mailinglist. These days much of the discussions seem to have moved from there to this place, but that seems to come and go in waves.

I was intrigued when I heard about Blue Rose. I havent had a chance to look at it myself, but the system sounds really cool, and I am a big fan of Green Ronin's products in general. Have you considered using Blue Rose with Mystara?

Glad to have you on board!

Håvard
#175

RPGpundit

Jun 01, 2005 10:48:29
Hello RPGpundit!

I was intrigued when I heard about Blue Rose. I havent had a chance to look at it myself, but the system sounds really cool, and I am a big fan of Green Ronin's products in general. Have you considered using Blue Rose with Mystara?

Glad to have you on board!

Håvard

Let me tell you that the "True 20" system in Blue Rose is just about the most brilliant innovation of the D20 system that has ever been conceived. It streamlines the entire D&D system, eliminating all of the sacred cows and creating this sleek beautiful fast and easy to play masterpiece.

Too bad about the setting, though. And the fans.

Anyways, despite what I just said about True 20 I would not use it in Mystara; not because of anything about True 20 but because to me Mystara is so tied into the memes and the mechanics of OD&D that I don't think any other system would do it justice. It was a setting crafted to specifically work in one system. To me, 2nd edition mystara was a disaster, and I doubt 3rd would be any better. Mystara was designed for a world where no demi human got above level 12, no halflings or dwarves could ever be mages (though they could be something similar in the sense of "clan masters"), people ranged from level 1 to 36, etc etc. It was not made for Feats and Prestige Classes.

RPGpundit
#176

havard

Jun 01, 2005 11:25:25
Let me tell you that the "True 20" system in Blue Rose is just about the most brilliant innovation of the D20 system that has ever been conceived. It streamlines the entire D&D system, eliminating all of the sacred cows and creating this sleek beautiful fast and easy to play masterpiece.


Too bad about the setting, though. And the fans.

I dont know too much about the BR setting, but "Romantic Fantasy" didnt really sound like what I want to be doing. All I've heard about the system both from BR and Mutants and Masterminds sounds really good though. Do you know if they used that system for anything else?

Anyways, despite what I just said about True 20 I would not use it in Mystara; not because of anything about True 20 but because to me Mystara is so tied into the memes and the mechanics of OD&D that I don't think any other system would do it justice. It was a setting crafted to specifically work in one system. To me, 2nd edition mystara was a disaster, and I doubt 3rd would be any better. Mystara was designed for a world where no demi human got above level 12, no halflings or dwarves could ever be mages (though they could be something similar in the sense of "clan masters"), people ranged from level 1 to 36, etc etc. It was not made for Feats and Prestige Classes.

Each to his own ;)

I am very happy with my current 3E lite Mystara/Freeport campaign... :D

Håvard
#177

RPGpundit

Jun 01, 2005 13:04:59
I dont know too much about the BR setting, but "Romantic Fantasy" didnt really sound like what I want to be doing. All I've heard about the system both from BR and Mutants and Masterminds sounds really good though. Do you know if they used that system for anything else?

Sadly, they have no plans at the moment to use true 20 for anything other than BR. It is perhaps the most singularly momentous lack of vision seen in roleplaying since Chaosium let the ball drop on CoC d20.

EVERYONE who has seen BR agreed that the system was amazingly good. I've never heard anyone who wasn't impressed with the system. But the majority of people who checked out the book felt the "romantic fantasy" setting "wasn't for them"; it was too politicized, too utopian, too simplistic, insulting to certain real-world groups while propagandizing for other real life groups..

In short, Green Ronin could make a killing if they started to release True 20 in other settings, or at least as its own rule-set seperate from the setting.

But they seem completely unwilling to do either. Thieves' World, which would have been a PERFECT fit with the True 20 rules (I'm running a campaign with the True 20 rules right now in Port Blacksand, which is very thieves-worldsy), is NOT going to be True 20. Its a damn shame.

RPGpundit
#178

weasel_fierce

Jun 01, 2005 13:09:01
True 20 is an interesting system, and more sensible than regular D20, I think.

As for Chaosium and D20 COC, I was under the belief that they licensed the setting to WOTC, who were mainly doing the release to prove the versatility of D20 (which makes the systems unsuitability to COC so much more funny to me).
Chaosium never, to my knowledge, had many plans to deviate from the Basic Role Play system, and I'd rather see them do their own thing.
#179

RPGpundit

Jun 01, 2005 14:28:59
As for Chaosium and D20 COC, I was under the belief that they licensed the setting to WOTC, who were mainly doing the release to prove the versatility of D20 (which makes the systems unsuitability to COC so much more funny to me).
Chaosium never, to my knowledge, had many plans to deviate from the Basic Role Play system, and I'd rather see them do their own thing.

Chaosium had the exclusive right to reprint CoC D20, and to make new sourcebooks for that system. They have done neither, even though the CoC D20 book was a huge critical and commercial success.

Basically, Wizards gave them a license to print money, and Chaosium spat upon it.

RPGpundit
#180

weasel_fierce

Jun 02, 2005 1:02:23
If I had owned the rights to the BRP system, I'd have spat on it as well.

I'd rather see each company do their own thing, than everything be the same system... and if it was all to be the same, I'd rather have it be GURPS ;)
Same reason, I wouldnt want to see BRP Eberron, or Storyteller Greyhawk.
#181

RPGpundit

Jun 02, 2005 1:46:57
If I had owned the rights to the BRP system, I'd have spat on it as well.

I'd rather see each company do their own thing, than everything be the same system... and if it was all to be the same, I'd rather have it be GURPS ;)
Same reason, I wouldnt want to see BRP Eberron, or Storyteller Greyhawk.

Let me put it into a Mystara context for you:

I firmly believe Mystara is really a setting MADE for classic (rules cyclopedia) D&D. It was crafted around the system, with lots of things that only work well in that system. As it happens, the failure of 2nd Ed. Mystara sort of sustains my belief.

But let's say that it didn't; let's imagine that a 3rd edition Mystara D20 comes out that meets HUGE critical praise, sells out quickly and is wildly popular. Now lets say I also happen to have the rights to Mystara D20, to republish the book that just sold out, and could make a fortune.

From a business perspective, it doesn't matter what I personally feel about it, it only makes sense to publish what many many people want and will pay me for. Especially if this means I could then indulge in my own preference, and publish "classic" Mystara books for OD&D as well!

You may feel CoC D20 was bad, there are many people who do (usually big fans of the original BRP version). I happen to like both editions, and there were a LOT of people who loved the D20 book and thought it was brilliant. Regardless of whatever the chaosium staff's disdain for D20 might be, it made no sense for them from the business perspective to drop that line; especially given that Chaosium, due to decisions like that one, are constantly on the verge of bankruptcy.

Do you hate the D20 version so much that you think it'd be better for Chaosium to go under and for there to be NO version of CoC, instead of Chaosium gaining the economic stability from the the publishing of D20 cthulhu that would allow them to continue to publish the less-profitable BRP version?

RPGpundit
#182

weasel_fierce

Jun 02, 2005 2:49:53
I agree that a company should make whatever moves they need, to make a profit. However, Chaosium doesnt seem to be in any danger of going away, BRP COC have survived 6 editions or so.


Publishing both D20 and BRP products could have been a wise financial move.. or it could have been a dead end, by competing with your own product. Same reason WOTC cut off every campaign setting, and why they are stubbornly refusing to republish old material. They want to do /their/ thing. Not what the other guys do. Im assuming Chaosium wants the same thing.


As for me ? I dont disdain D20. I quite like Blue Rose, and Castles & Crusades. I only dislike D20 D&D. I dont care if a company decides to publish D20 material (heck, my fave company, WHite Wolf does so), but I would rather buy different game systems for different things, than a big pile of stuff from the same system.
#183

RPGpundit

Jun 02, 2005 3:10:15
I agree that a company should make whatever moves they need, to make a profit. However, Chaosium doesnt seem to be in any danger of going away, BRP COC have survived 6 editions or so.

Except they've published those 6 editions (actually, way more considering they released 5.0, 5.5, 5.6, and 6.0) in order to stay alive. Repeated and premature re-releases of their core book is the only thing allowing them to scratch by from year to year.

I like BRP Cthulhu, and I think at one time Chaosium was one of the best rpg companies out there. Unfortunately those days have long past, and now Chaosium is reduced to trying to bleed out its most loyal fans with one almost-identical edition of the core book of their one-trick pony after the other. To add to that the choice to slap the faces of all the people who did LOVE the D20 CoC (including me), and end up losing a huge pool of profit, is absolutely inane.

And no, I don't buy the "competing against yourself" business, because its quite a different case than what's going on with Wizards. Chaosium's got a much smaller core fanbase, who would either not buy the D20 book (like you, I guess) or would buy BRP anyways (like me); but the D20 book would NOT be aimed at this existing fan base. Rather it would be aimed at the D20 fans, people who would NEVER think of buying BRP Cthulhu, but would snatch up D20 Cthulhu in an instant, because its a system they're comfortable with.
No amount of attempts to convince them to give BRP a try is going to do it, whereas choosing to give them what they want instead of trying to tell them what they want is wrong would.

RPGpundit
#184

weasel_fierce

Jun 02, 2005 3:25:47
Except they've published those 6 editions (actually, way more considering they released 5.0, 5.5, 5.6, and 6.0) in order to stay alive. Repeated and premature re-releases of their core book is the only thing allowing them to scratch by from year to year.

Well, hopefully they can get back into a larger market, since they are aiming at bringing back BRP fantasy (also known as Runequest, but not). We'll see what time brings.


In the end, I dont know if Chaosium has a disdain for D20. I'd say the fact they did release it, shows that they do not.
They did however choose not to pursue the product further. The easiest option would have been to doublestat their books, covering both systems, which could propably work out fairly well, though it means a lot of wasted space, for everyone.
#185

gazza555

Jun 02, 2005 3:59:57
It's been a day or two, so...

Ravenloft: 2180
Planescape: 3977

...and personally, I've broken through the 100 posts barrier (it's still only 0.15 posts per day - so there's still room for improvement :D )

Gary
#186

RPGpundit

Jun 02, 2005 12:12:47
Well, hopefully they can get back into a larger market, since they are aiming at bringing back BRP fantasy (also known as Runequest, but not). We'll see what time brings.

In the end, I dont know if Chaosium has a disdain for D20. I'd say the fact they did release it, shows that they do not.
They did however choose not to pursue the product further. The easiest option would have been to doublestat their books, covering both systems, which could propably work out fairly well, though it means a lot of wasted space, for everyone.

Chaosium has followed a policy, since D20's inception, of publishing D20 editions of their games but only as single-book non-supported works intended to syphon off a few of the D20 fans into playing BRP.
Their (assinine) theory is that someone will buy Dragonlords of Melnibone (elric d20) or CoC d20, fall in love with the setting, and be willing to switch system and buy the BRP versions of those games.

I think that the doublestating would be the worst of all possible solutions, at least the way Chaosium toyed with it. Either one side or the other or both always feel cheated.

I think two seperate lines is easily doable, and it is purely a matter of pride or idiocy that has stopped chaosium from plugging in the money machine.

RPGpundit
#187

gazza555

Jun 03, 2005 7:12:42
I thought it was time to see how we're doing in respect to all the boards we're behind, so...

[HTML] 23/03/05 03/06/05
Dragonlance 34,632 34,224
Dark Sun 20,780 22,997
Greyhawk 9,419 8,848
Planescape 5,229 3,950
Ravenloft 3,459 2,159[/HTML]

Gary
#188

havard

Jun 03, 2005 7:19:37
As for me ? I dont disdain D20. I quite like Blue Rose, and Castles & Crusades. I only dislike D20 D&D. I dont care if a company decides to publish D20 material (heck, my fave company, WHite Wolf does so), but I would rather buy different game systems for different things, than a big pile of stuff from the same system.

I think it is cool that publishers produce different versions of their games using different systems. Having Cthulhu available for D20, BRP, GURPS etc is awesome. I wish this was possible for every setting so that we could pick and choose whatever system each group preferred.

If everyone switched to D20 and discarded their old systems that would be bad, but that doesn't seem to be the direction anyone is going these days, even though there are still many D20 games out there. In general, I think the D20 wave did alot of good things for the gaming industry. It allowed alot of people to make money that they are now investing in putting out other games on the market.

I thought it was time to see how we're doing in respect to all the boards we're behind, so...



Dragonlance 34,632 34,224
Dark Sun 20,780 22,997
Greyhawk 9,419 8,848
Planescape 5,229 3,950
Ravenloft 3,459 2,159

Thanks for putting us back on topic Gary. Except for Dark sun, this is stull looking good! :D

Håvard
#189

zombiegleemax

Jun 03, 2005 18:18:00
I thought Dark Sun was gone already. How interesting can a setting in a desert only be? Well apparently I wouldn't know, I never gave that one a chance other than buying a module that I converted to a Davania setting and a novel that I gave away after reading only 20 pages. ;)
I didn't realize there was still a following to Dark Sun.
#190

zombiegleemax

Jun 05, 2005 10:45:17
Ok, been a couple of days so:

Mystara: 6144

Ravenloft: 2120 (-39)
Planescape: 3908 (-42)

The other 3 increased their leads so I didn't bother more with that. Besides over 8000 to go for the Greyhawk.
#191

kheldren

Jun 08, 2005 5:31:59
High time for another update (another couple of days - we are slacking).

Mystara: 6210
Ravenloft: 8280 = 2070 to go (-50)
Planescape: 10052 = 3832 to go (-76)

Well done PS for passing 10,000 - but we are still catching them up. Interestingly it looks as if we may come close to passing them both at once...
#192

zombiegleemax

Jun 08, 2005 6:44:28
Very good possibility. Planescape is really slow these days. I've been watching the other ones as well, and it doesn't appear that we are really gaining on teh other 3 above Planescape. They all have huge spurts once in a while.
#193

gazza555

Jun 09, 2005 10:04:48
Latest update

Ravenloft: 2033
Planescape: 3808

As an aside, we're also getting very close to 500 threads.

Gary
#194

zombiegleemax

Jun 11, 2005 8:39:31
Another update for the weekend.

Mystara: 6276

Ravenloft: 2005 (-28) How odd a number that's this year!?
Planescape: 3781 (-27)
#195

Hugin

Jun 11, 2005 17:51:35
When we hit 2000 away from Ravenloft there should be a little announcement made on the Vaults. ;)

Ditto when we hit 10K total posts.

Well, we are now under that 2000 post separation mark!

It didn't take all that long, did it!
#196

thorf

Jun 12, 2005 1:09:59
We're two threads away from thread number 500... I've been thinking it would be nice to have some sort of general thread everyone could contribute to for the 500th thread. But I can't think of any specific ideas.

I thought about something about Mystara's roots, how old it is, and so on, but it's not very easy to contribute to. Another idea would be "Your First Memories of Mystara", but that one is likely to get a lot of mentions of Bargle, magic missiles and Aleena and perhaps not much else. We already had "What do you like about Mystara?" quite recently...

I suppose "What area of Mystara do you most want to know more about or develop?" could be interesting.

Anyone have any good ideas? We need to decide rather quickly before someone posts the 500th thread by accident. ;)
#197

zombiegleemax

Jun 12, 2005 10:45:13
I think the 500th would be good to have a first memories of Mystara as well as enjoyable moments in games with Mystara. Something along that line is specific yet broad enough to get plenty of contribution. Anyone else agree? I also think that a certain user should be assigned per say to start the thread so we don't have 2 people try at the same time and end up with identical threads or something. Maybe Spellweaver could start another of his informative threads for the 499th?
#198

Hugin

Jun 13, 2005 20:42:19
Please note:

The Next Thread is the 500th!

We should decide what to do and who should post it quickly! I think what Thorf and tjedge1 suggested sounds good. I've thought about it but can't come up with anything better either.
#199

thorf

Jun 13, 2005 21:36:28
Maybe we should just go ahead and post it, because there's a good chance someone might post another thread without even realising. No one else seems to be around at the moment, so I guess I'll have a go.

Edit: there do seem to be some people here right now. Any other ideas?
#200

thorf

Jun 13, 2005 21:51:44
I went and posted it. I hope no one had any better ideas! :P

It's kinda cool having this thread where we can talk about random stuff to do with our board. Very useful too for times like this. :D
#201

kheldren

Jun 14, 2005 9:50:02
Update time I feel:

Planescape: 10,067 (3,750 to go)
Ravenloft: 8,286 (1,969 to go)
Mystara: 6,317

So in 3 days we gained 36 on Ravenloft and 31 on Planescape...
#202

zombiegleemax

Jun 14, 2005 19:32:52
Sweet and the weekends are supposed to be the slow time.

:invasion:

I too like a random thread where we can talk about stuff to do on the boards.
#203

Hugin

Jun 17, 2005 7:34:29
Here's an update as I head out the door to go to work!

Ravenloft: 1915 (-54)
Planescape: 3696 (-54)

Hmmm... equal gain!
#204

zombiegleemax

Jun 17, 2005 11:09:37
I predict we'll catch RL before summer is over.
#205

Hugin

Jun 19, 2005 22:32:43
Time for an update.

Ravenloft: 1862 (-53)
Planescape: 3637 (-59)

Not bad at all for an over-the-weekend span!
#206

thorf

Jun 20, 2005 1:58:20
Yeah this weekend was pretty busy here - much busier than usual. I certainly enjoyed everyone's company, because for the first time in ages I had the whole weekend free. :D
#207

zombiegleemax

Jun 21, 2005 6:48:43
That's funny since I'm usually here more on weekends, but this time I was out of town so I missed the action till Sunday night.
#208

gazza555

Jun 22, 2005 10:43:01
It's update time again.

Ravenloft: 1822
Planescape: 3603

It's also been fairly busy on the mailing list recently, shame we can't count them as well. :D

Regards,
Gary
#209

zombiegleemax

Jun 23, 2005 19:27:49
Maybe we need to get the whole mailing list to move over here then. :P
#210

Hugin

Jun 25, 2005 15:31:14
Update...

Ravenloft: 1770 (-52)
Planescape: 3555 (-48)

It's also been fairly busy on the mailing list recently, same we can't count them as well.

True, but I have certainly been reading them!
#211

gazza555

Jun 27, 2005 13:17:39
Yet another update...

Planescape: 3511 (-44)
Ravenloft: 1733 (-37)

Regards,
Gary
#212

zombiegleemax

Jun 27, 2005 18:24:17
Wow, we are really getting on a roll here.
#213

gazza555

Jun 30, 2005 9:48:01
Wow, we are really getting on a roll here.

We most certainly are.

Current gaps:

Ravenloft: 1631 (-102)
Planescape: 3405 (-106)

Regards,
Gary
#214

Hugin

Jun 30, 2005 18:03:30
Ravenloft: 1631 (-102)
Planescape: 3405 (-106)

:OMG!
This is unbelievable! Months ago I was awaiting the inevitable cooling off and slow-down, but it just keeps on going!
#215

zombiegleemax

Jun 30, 2005 18:14:04
Holy cow! That was a huge jump and I still haven't really started my campaign yet and then I'll be posting up a storm and once I finish my Rolemaster converts of Mystaran monsters. Now to get that kind of jump in only one day. ;)
#216

thorf

Jun 30, 2005 21:24:45
Wow, that really is amazing! :evillaugh

I've been having a great week with my Wendar thread, it has been really fun putting a little detail into the map as a group effort. I'm seriously considering doing the same again for various areas that need some more details, and I hope lots of people will jump in and make up a village or two. The end result is that we have a nice detailed map, as well as a nice foundation for people to work from should anyone ever want to write more detailed stuff about the area.
#217

gazza555

Jul 01, 2005 8:17:01
I thought that I would start a monthly update featuring all the boards that we are behind.

[HTML]Setting 3rd June 1st July Change
Dragonlance 34224 34067 -157
Dark Sun 22997 23761 +764
Greyhawk 8848 8655 -193
Planescape 3950 3359 -591
Ravenloft 2159 1593 -566
[/HTML]

So we're still closing in on all boards except Dark Sun, which is zooming ahead. :surrender

Regards,
Gary
#218

zombiegleemax

Jul 01, 2005 9:03:10
I think that if all or half of the members of the MML could drop by and read the MMB regularly (say once a day), we would probably speed up the posting rate considerably. We must admit we're still a pretty small community here, despite the many posts we're able to make.
In other words, we should increase the number of contributors to the forum, not just the posts and topics.
#219

thorf

Jul 01, 2005 9:15:51
That's definitely true. But I don't think we have much hope of "stealing" more people from the Mailing List - some people don't like the message board format very much, unfortunately. Back in 1998 I agreed with them, and never once visited the board back then, but now my feelings have changed.

We are a small community, but I think that can be a benefit as much as a weakness. Unlike other online communities, I often feel that we have a real sense of community spirit and belonging here.

Especially, you just need to step out the door into another forum on this very same site and suddenly the tone changes, and people seem to jump on each other at the slightest provocation.
#220

thorf

Jul 02, 2005 9:07:40
Hmm, lately it seems that whenever I have a day off, everyone else is busy doing something! (Possibly sleeping, due to the time difference...)

Oh well, at least it has been a productive day for mapping. :D
#221

havard

Jul 02, 2005 11:20:15
Hmm, lately it seems that whenever I have a day off, everyone else is busy doing something! (Possibly sleeping, due to the time difference...)

Oh well, at least it has been a productive day for mapping. :D

What Thorf, you're not out watching the Live8 concert?

Anyways, I'm here reading your posts. This might be a good opportunity to mention that I probably wont be posting much for the next couple of weeks since I'll be on the road travelling across Eastern Europe and the Balkans. (one of my favorite parts of the world).

Have a good summer folks

Håvard
#222

zombiegleemax

Jul 02, 2005 15:36:52
... This might be a good opportunity to mention that I probably wont be posting much for the next couple of weeks since I'll be on the road travelling across Eastern Europe and the Balkans. (one of my favorite parts of the world).

Have a good summer folks

Håvard

Likewise, I will probably stop posting for a while soon - since I am leaving my home-country to work abroad (actually, I am doing almost the opposite route than Havard - I am leaving for Stockholm...). Too bad, since I am enjoying the Wendar project so much.
Meanwhile, continue to have fun - and I'll return when I'll get settled and relaxed.

LW.
#223

maddog

Jul 02, 2005 16:52:18
So we're still closing in on all boards except Dark Sun, which is zooming ahead.

This isn't a cut on DS. I find it interesting that DS is so popular. It just didn't reach out to me I guess.

Gazza555,

Keep posting the results this way. It gives perspective.

--Ray.
#224

zombiegleemax

Jul 03, 2005 15:08:49
I feel the same way. I never understood what was so great about it. It seemed too limited and unmagical to me. Oh well, it apparently has a strong following.
#225

Cthulhudrew

Jul 03, 2005 20:22:48
This isn't a cut on DS. I find it interesting that DS is so popular. It just didn't reach out to me I guess.

I echo that sentiment. When I first read about it, it sounded really awesome, and so I picked up the boxed set. When I read the boxed set, I was less enthused. Everything was so bleak and one-note- Sorcerer-Kings ruled, everything was desert, etc. The novels made the setting even worse, IMO (all that stuff about evil halfling wizards, weird giants cutting their heads off and putting animals in their place, etc.)

I still think there is a lot of interesting material in Dark Sun, but the way it was all put together... meh.
#226

Hugin

Jul 06, 2005 17:58:47
Let's see how we're doing after a really slow weekend;

Ravenloft: 1516 (-77)
Planescape: 3282 (-77)

Well, for a 'slow' weekend, I'd say we didn't do too bad! It still blows my mind that the RL gap has dropped from 4000 to just over 1500! And now Planescape is considerably less than the gap was with RL.

I echo the setiments regarding DS; it lacks variety, much like many game worlds. I think variety is perhaps the single greatest advantage that Mystara has; It's one of the things that I personally love about Mystara.
#227

zombiegleemax

Jul 07, 2005 8:46:40
*sigh* you all go get some holidays and trips around here and there, and here it's me working... next holidays I'll get will be in December... for Xmas

oh well, never mind...
best wishes to Lost Wooddrake for his Swedish sojourn (hey hey! I just got this title for a new movie: "An Israeli Wooddrake Lost in Stockholm" :D) and to Haavard for his EastTrek Adventure! :P
#228

zombiegleemax

Jul 07, 2005 9:34:54
I echo the setiments regarding DS; it lacks variety, much like many game worlds. I think variety is perhaps the single greatest advantage that Mystara has; It's one of the things that I personally love about Mystara.

Absolutely. This is how I convinced 2 of my players who wanted the Middle Earth or DragonLance settings and I kept telling them, Mystara has both in round about ways. The Master of Hule is a powerful evil mystery that is conquering everything he can and there are more dragons in Mystara than Krynn can hold, some rogue some organized and many are ridden by empirial troops like in Thyatis. ;)
#229

zombiegleemax

Jul 07, 2005 17:11:52
best wishes to Lost Wooddrake for his Swedish sojourn (hey hey! I just got this title for a new movie: "An Israeli Wooddrake Lost in Stockholm" :D) and to Haavard for his EastTrek Adventure! :P

Thanks, DM!
AND -We passed the 1500 barrier!
#230

thorf

Jul 07, 2005 22:45:12
Lost Woodrake, we're going to miss you. But don't worry, everything will be here for you to catch up on when you get settled in and get internet access again. :D

Have a great time! When you next visit the boards, we might even have passed Ravenloft.
#231

zombiegleemax

Jul 10, 2005 5:38:20
Lost Woodrake, we're going to miss you. But don't worry, everything will be here for you to catch up on when you get settled in and get internet access again. :D

Have a great time! When you next visit the boards, we might even have passed Ravenloft.

Thanks, man.
I was hoping to write the "We-Did-It!!!" post myself (some sort of vanity, I suppose) - but I'll be more than happy to see it accomplished when I return.

Keep up the good work, you all!
#232

gazza555

Jul 11, 2005 8:14:52
It's been awhile since the last update so...

Ravenloft: 1438 (-78)
Planescape: 3202 (-80)

Still not bad for a 'slow' period. ;)

Regards,
Gary
#233

gazza555

Jul 14, 2005 11:24:05
Unless somebody's just beat me to it (yes, they just have), this is the
7000th post!!!
:bounce: :invasion:

Incidentally update time...

Ravenloft: 1382 (-56)
Planescape: 3151 (-51)

Regards,
Gary
#234

zombiegleemax

Jul 15, 2005 6:42:05
Nice. Looks like my prediction is drawing nearer every update.
#235

kheldren

Jul 19, 2005 9:38:57
it's been 4 days - time for another update:

Ravenloft: 1325 (-57)
Planescape3107 (-44)

have we slowed down or something?
#236

gazza555

Jul 19, 2005 10:02:30
have we slowed down or something?

We certainly have. Hopefully it's just a seasonal thing, people away on summer holidays etc. But it could upset tjedge1's prediction of closing with Ravenloft by the end of the summer. :raincloud

Hopefully Thorf and Marco will get some time to post the their threads as those threads do generate a good deal of posts. The monster conversion thread is also becoming a popular thread.

Regards,
Gary
#237

zombiegleemax

Jul 19, 2005 10:15:02
Yeah let's hope so, Gary ;)

Coincidentally, I also have drawn a deadline for my Ravenloft ongoing campaign: it will have to be ended by the beginning of autumn, when I will restart playing in Mystara to end the longest Mystara campaign I've ever DMed (it began in 1994 but had 1 year of suspension).
#238

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Jul 19, 2005 13:35:49
It seems to have slowed down significantly since last Friday. I'm sure it will pick up again
#239

havard

Jul 19, 2005 13:43:50
It seems to have slowed down significantly since last Friday. I'm sure it will pick up again

Yeah guys, don't stop just because I am back! ;)

Håvard
#240

zombiegleemax

Jul 21, 2005 6:37:00
I've had my hands full the last couple of days, but I'll be back later today. Not that I'm one of the huge posters here, but everything helps. ;)

EDIT: And I can't allow my prediction to fail. I'll come up with something that will allow me to be productive and add many, many posts. MAybe Once I get that revised monster manual for the RoleMaster rules done. I'll post it all up just to see what others who use similiar rules think.
#241

spellweaver

Jul 21, 2005 8:20:36
I've had my hands full the last couple of days

I know how you feel

This writing-a-thesis-business is killing me! Oh well, at least it will all be over in a couple of weeks and then I'll get back on track with several interesting projects for the forum

:-) Jesper
#242

gazza555

Jul 26, 2005 10:13:49
It's been awhile so...

Ravenloft: 1194 (-141)
Planescape : 2999 (-108) Yaaahhh!!!, less than 3,000

Regards,
Gary
#243

zombiegleemax

Jul 26, 2005 10:41:54
Today I'm going to get busy with those conversions I'm working on. I know not very many of you guys use Rolemaster, but my players are loving the realistic damage that comes in combat. The last adventure had a 3rd level NPC Ranger cut down in one hit by a 2nd level enemy fighter without any chance for a save roll. The players are now reconsidering their rampaging for more roleplaying since also their toughest character (A berserker has a broken rib and may have trouble going into his frenzied state to save them. He had some really bad luck in the fighting last weekend.) Ok, now I'm rambling, back to what I was posting about anyway.

I'm going to get that monster conversion for Rolemaster worked on today and then see about setting up a list of monsters that will be done. I'll make them into 2 lists. One will be for playable monsters and creatures and one will be a complete listing. Some I'll probably drop, like the Bandit, Berserker, Headsman, Dervish and so on. Since those are classes basically that many races can play in my rule system. I am going to try and grab a lot of the monsters done up here for various versions and make a complete Manuel eventually out of them. So you guys keep making those monsters.

Got to get the post counts higher baby!
#244

gazza555

Jul 29, 2005 10:02:23
Update time (again)...

Ravenloft: 1147 (-47)
Planescape: 2962 (-37)

Tune in on Monday for the monthly update. :D

Regards,
Gary
#245

gazza555

Aug 01, 2005 3:39:36
Monthly update time...

[HTML] Setting 1st July 1st August Change
Dragonlance 34067 34095 +28
Dark Sun 23761 24809 +1048
Greyhawk 8655 8362 -293
Planescape 3359 2930 -429
Ravenloft 1593 1116 -477
[/HTML]

Not too bad for a 'quiet' month.
Dark Sun is inexplicably as popular as ever.
Dragonlance has regained a little of it's lead.
But we're still closing on the others fairly quickly.

Regards,
Gary
#246

havard

Aug 01, 2005 17:55:52
First of all, thanks for keeping us posted on the situation Gary

Dark Sun is inexplicably as popular as ever.

I never got around to commenting on this when you were discussing Dark Sun's popularity earlier. I have never actually played in the setting myself, but I really like the concept behind the setting. True, the fact that it is all desert makes the scope of DS a bit limited, but it made up for that at the time of its publication for exploring new parts of the AD&D2E rules that hadn't been properly explored before. I love the ideas of powerful clerics becoming Elementals and powerful Wizards becoming Dragon Kings. It was sort of similar to Mystara's paths to immortality, though with a slightly different flavour. Also, it was the first setting to fully integrate the psionic rules, which didnt really seem to fit in any of the other settings.

The way DS took advantage of the AD&D2E system is IMHO comparable to how Eberron makes use of the 3E rules. Being designed around the 3E rules it is able to take advantage of the various aspects of the setting.

It is interesting to read about these settings and steal as many ideas as possible for use with Mystara. Much of DS can be used to develope the desert-like regions of Mystara. Much of Eberron fits well with areas like Alphatia where magic is similarly commonplace.

Håvard
#247

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Aug 01, 2005 20:11:29
Dark Sun, in my limited experience, was an acquired taste. Those in our group who were combat-oriented had less of a problem with it than those who were arcane casters- they really hated it. I think your feelings on psionics also play a role- we as a group hated psionics with a passion and as a result we never looked at the setting seriously.
I do think some ideas from it could be useful in Ylaruam, the Broken Lands, Great Plain of Fire, etc...
#248

zombiegleemax

Aug 03, 2005 5:40:45
I personally do not think anything of Dark Sun could be ported to Mystara, in ANY of its desertic regions, mainly because DS primary characteristic: lack of deities and abundance of psionic powers. Since Mystara lacks psionics and abunds with immortals, DS has no place in it ;)

Oh and on a totally different and irrelevant note, you should REALLY TRY THIS:
http://p2563.r2h-config.de/flash/cursor_avoid.swf

sorry, had to put that somewhere in this forum, to share my madness with you!
:D
#249

stanles

Aug 03, 2005 20:54:47
I personally do not think anything of Dark Sun could be ported to Mystara, in ANY of its desertic regions, mainly because DS primary characteristic: lack of deities and abundance of psionic powers. Since Mystara lacks psionics and abunds with immortals, DS has no place in it ;)
:D

and also isn't Dark Sun a low magic world compared to Mystara being a high magic world.
#250

gazza555

Aug 04, 2005 7:30:47
It is interesting to read about these settings and steal as many ideas as possible for use with Mystara. Much of DS can be used to develope the desert-like regions of Mystara. Much of Eberron fits well with areas like Alphatia where magic is similarly commonplace.

I don't quite know about DS (I only played two sessions of a 3e conversion and didn't really get a feel for the setting) but the Sandstorm is a very useful book for desert-like regions.

Regards,
Gary
#251

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Aug 04, 2005 8:20:38
DS was more useful before Sandstorm came out. We mined DS not so much for flavor and setting specific info, but more for ways of handling extreme heat, blasted terrain and the like. It had some interesting desert equipment and monsters as well. All of that is moot with the release of Sandstorm.
#252

gazza555

Aug 08, 2005 6:00:51
I feel it's time for an update...

Ravenloft: 1012 (-104)
Planescape: 2856 (-74)

Regards,
Gary
#253

zombiegleemax

Aug 08, 2005 21:14:22
I predict we'll catch RL before summer is over.

Just so you guys know, I meant the summer soltice. Which is actually Septemeber 21st or something. So I still think my prediction is on track.

I just need to get my threads rolling with the monster conversions and those mystics abilities. Even if nobody else uses them, they are good ideas and will increase the post counts by a ton.
:invasion:


EDIT: Speaking of which, this is my 300th post! All, except maybe my very first, was posted right here in the Mystara forum.
#254

gazza555

Aug 09, 2005 4:52:32
Just had to mention we're less than 1,000 behind Ravenloft now.

Regards,
Gary
#255

zombiegleemax

Aug 09, 2005 6:22:32


Excellent news. I'm planning about 500 posts within the next 30 days so that will hopefully be enough on my part.

EDIT: Oh yeah and if you don't believe me, then you should see my post count at CivFantaics. A member for only a month longer than here, but I have over 4200 posts. Professional spammer? Maybe.
#256

arakor

Aug 09, 2005 8:18:21
Just so you guys know, I meant the summer soltice. Which is actually Septemeber 21st or something. So I still think my prediction is on track.


If you're talking about the Summer Solstice, it's been and gone seeing how it was June 21st. September 21st is actually the Autumnal Equinox (or Mabon as the Wicca call it).
#257

zombiegleemax

Aug 09, 2005 11:28:37
After quite a long break (originally for reasons I can't remember, and then because I just felt like if I started reading again I'd have to catch up on everything since I left, and I never had the time), I've started reading this board again, so I'll do my best to help shrink the gap. (Oh, I changed my username, except for the first 3 letters.)
#258

Hugin

Aug 09, 2005 12:21:19
After quite a long break (originally for reasons I can't remember, and then because I just felt like if I started reading again I'd have to catch up on everything since I left, and I never had the time), I've started reading this board again, so I'll do my best to help shrink the gap. (Oh, I changed my username, except for the first 3 letters.)

Welcome back, Joe! Let's turn those undead!
#259

zombiegleemax

Aug 10, 2005 17:15:19

If you're talking about the Summer Solstice, it's been and gone seeing how it was June 21st. September 21st is actually the Autumnal Equinox (or Mabon as the Wicca call it).

Yeah, that's what I meant. Anyway the end of summer...
#260

Hugin

Aug 10, 2005 17:55:12
Time for an update (it's been busy the last few days)

Ravenloft: 946 (-66)
Planescape: 2819 (-37)

PS isn't playing very nicely. It seems that they're resisting our efforts. Ha! Futile! ;)
#261

culture20

Aug 10, 2005 19:44:39
I just updated my spreadsheet with a couple months of data from this thread;
two different functions predict:
September 29th 2005 10:00 am and
September 29th 2005 07:28 am
as the time when we'll pass Ravenloft. We're slacking off. Last prediction was the 3rd of Sept. To arms! :fight!:
#262

zombiegleemax

Aug 12, 2005 6:05:58
No worries. I've been scanning and converting images of Street Fighter RPG special moves to be converted to OD&D this week. I'm almost done and this weekend I'll be making several posts lisitng various moves and trying to figure out what should go and what could be used to add more power to the Mystic. And a discussion on how to balance it back out. ;) There are around 180 moves to post. I'll post them in groups but there will still be plenty of posting by myself to pick up and put us back on track. Not to mention my other plans of converting monsters to RoleMaster.

If I have to make my prediction successful myself, then so be it. :evillaugh
#263

thorf

Aug 14, 2005 7:37:55
I'm afraid my recent lack of updates has probably caused some of that slowdown. I hope I can get back to mapping soon.
#264

zombiegleemax

Aug 14, 2005 10:29:07
I htink you are right Thorf. I'm going to try and revive the forum a bit with my own projects, but it should really take off once you start posting more updates again.
:invasion:
#265

zombiegleemax

Aug 14, 2005 14:36:01
What the heck, how about an update guys:

Mystara: 7576
Ravenloft: 902 (-44)
Planescape: 2771 (-48)

Not too shabby for a slow weekend.

Wow, we gained 100 posts on RL in about 5 days.
#266

thorf

Aug 15, 2005 1:12:54
As far as mapping goes, the bad news is that I'm almost out of official sources, which means my updates will necessarily take much longer to do, because I'm getting to the stage of developing new maps and referring to other fan-made maps.

The good news is that I fully intend to share the development of these maps on the board. Wendar seems to have gone pretty well in that way, though it still needs some finishing up. I hope everyone is ready to contribute on the next maps! :D
#267

zombiegleemax

Aug 15, 2005 5:54:02
Count me in, if I can't think of anything useful to add at least I can be a
#268

havard

Aug 15, 2005 6:40:40
Count me in, if I can't think of anything useful to add at least I can be a

Me too!

I've had limited internet access during the summer, but I get back to work again this week so I will hopefully be able to participate more again once I get back to business (as it were)

Looking forward to more of your maps Thorf!

Håvard
#269

Cthulhudrew

Aug 15, 2005 16:09:54
Just read this on the ENWorld boards:

Arthaus Publishing and Wizards of the Coast have announced that they have reached an agreement for the reversion of rights to the RAVENLOFT and GAMMA WORLD campaign settings. WotC has agreed to allow White Wolf (Arthaus' umbrella company) to sell back stock until June 2006. This reversion means that the RAVENLOFT supplement Van Richten’s Guide to the Mists will not see print. Sword & Sorcery Studios will release the unproofed manuscript as a free PDF in September.

Don't know whether this means any/all traffic that may exist on boards at S&S for Ravenloft (if there are any) will migrate over here, or if things will drop off even more for RL than they seem to have over the past year or so, but anyone keeping an eye on the gain/loss trend might want to bear this in mind as we watch how the gap changes.
#270

havard

Aug 15, 2005 16:38:11
Don't know whether this means any/all traffic that may exist on boards at S&S for Ravenloft (if there are any) will migrate over here, or if things will drop off even more for RL than they seem to have over the past year or so, but anyone keeping an eye on the gain/loss trend might want to bear this in mind as we watch how the gap changes.

If we catch up with Ravenloft just because people stop posting there it wont be much of a victory will it? Same way, if a bunch of new people move to WotC's RL board we shouldnt consider that a loss.

By the way, WTF are they reversing the rights to those settings to WotC for? Do WotC intend on continuing their support or are they getting them back just to shut them down?

Håvard
#271

zombiegleemax

Aug 15, 2005 17:37:08
I didn't even know White Wolf even had the rights to RL.

So how does that work? :whatsthis I wonder if WotC would ever consider selling Mystara's rights? :lightbulb
#272

Cthulhudrew

Aug 15, 2005 19:58:08
By the way, WTF are they reversing the rights to those settings to WotC for? Do WotC intend on continuing their support or are they getting them back just to shut them down?

The way I read that press report, it sounds like the reversal of rights is on Arthaus' part, not WotC. Could be that the RL line just wasn't profitable enough for them to continue to keep it going, and so they arranged for WotC to regain the rights. It also makes it sound like it was something outside of the original licensing deal (from what I understand, Arthaus had the rights for another year or two). Not sure, though, without reading more about it.

That being said, I have heard that the "Book of Horrors" that is coming out in October from WotC will have some Ravenloft references in it, though nothing that is only applicable to Ravenloft.

Whether WotC does anything with the license themselves or farms it out to someone else to do something with again, only time will tell.
#273

thorf

Aug 15, 2005 22:03:39
Sounds to me like White Wolf gave up on it.

In case you haven't looked, go and check out the Wendar thread! I did a pile of updates last night.
#274

gazza555

Aug 18, 2005 5:37:56
Update time again chaps...

Ravenloft: 808 (-94)*
Planescape: 2653 (-118)

*Ravenloft's been rather busy since the news of Arthaus etc broke.

Regards,
Gary
#275

zombiegleemax

Aug 18, 2005 6:03:27
Don't be sad Gary, you know that's the swan's death song so to speak.. :embarrass

too bad for RL anyway: I was feverishly expecting the new Doomsday Gazetteer to be released next year, which would have covered the seas of the Core... now I don't have anything to wait for, since RL has been closed AGAIN!
Also the authors won't be able to post online anything regarding the material they had written and the ideas they had, because the non disclosure agreement still stands for them. Drat!
#276

zombiegleemax

Aug 18, 2005 6:24:13
That really blows for them. Oh well. Even with the increased activity over on the RL board we are still gaining quickly on them.
#277

thorf

Aug 18, 2005 8:38:28
Sad for Ravenloft.
#278

zombiegleemax

Aug 18, 2005 20:37:41
Very sad. I thought RavenLoft was better than Dark Sun. This whole thing actually surprises me.
#279

Cthulhudrew

Aug 18, 2005 21:58:30
Very sad. I thought RavenLoft was better than Dark Sun. This whole thing actually surprises me.

Well, Ravenloft at least had a fairly good run as a published 3rd Edition product, unlike Dark Sun. That world, like Mystara, still remains entirely in the hands of its fans (aside from the occasional Dragon article).

Ravenloft has had a really devoted fanbase for a long time, and I suspect the Fraternity of Shadows will continue where the Kargatane left off (though, IMO, the net community for RL hasn't been quite as strong since the Kargatane shut down. Will they return? That would be awesome, but I don't know...)
#280

zombiegleemax

Aug 19, 2005 1:44:18
Personal opinion: the Kargatane were unsurpassed. Since they started doing it professionally, the RL mailing list DIED (prolly because it lived off their posts AND because people migrated en masse to the internet Message Boards for RL).
I doubt they'll come back to write for free over the internet as long as they'll see some chance to publish the stuff they still have from their contribution to Arthaus' line (or as long as they'll be prevented to do it from legal obligations).

I hope they'll prove me wrong and release all previously cut materials from the RL GAz series and their idea behind the current metaplot in RL. :P
#281

thorf

Aug 19, 2005 12:50:45
I think we've been having a really good day today! With a few ongoing rather interesting and sometimes heated (well, for our friendly little forum that is ) threads, we must be raking in the posts!
#282

zombiegleemax

Aug 19, 2005 17:36:41
This week has been pretty good I thought. We are gaining at lightning speed now.
#283

zombiegleemax

Aug 20, 2005 3:56:40
Well it's been a couple days, so here's an update.

Mystara: 7812

Ravenloft: 716 (-92)
Planescape 2546 (-107)

Not too shabby for a couple of days. We'll see how the weekend goes.
#284

nemarsde

Aug 20, 2005 4:19:34
I won't lie and say I've read this whole thread.

But anyway, I think Ravenloft will always have the numerical advantage because it's tied into Dragonlance, so they're essentially part of the same campaign setting.

It's a shame that Arthaus is dropping Ravenloft, although I don't think they did that much with it.

As for Mystara, this may have been mentioned, and sorry if it has, but didn't Kenzer & Co. have the rights to Mystara? They were producing a HackMaster campaign setting based on it, weren't they? What happened to that?
#285

thorf

Aug 20, 2005 6:37:18
I won't lie and say I've read this whole thread.

That's okay, this is kinda the unofficial off-topic thread on this board. You don't have to read very far to get the gist of the thread.

But anyway, I think Ravenloft will always have the numerical advantage because it's tied into Dragonlance, so they're essentially part of the same campaign setting.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is. Whether they're the same setting or not is not really relevant, this thread is just about catching up and overtaking them on these boards. Even that is essentially just an excuse for us to have some fun and motivate us to post more.

As for Mystara, this may have been mentioned, and sorry if it has, but didn't Kenzer & Co. have the rights to Mystara? They were producing a HackMaster campaign setting based on it, weren't they? What happened to that?

As far as we know, it got delayed but is being worked on again now. I think I read somewhere (the Vaults?) that the project was scaled back to make it more realistically doable.
#286

Cthulhudrew

Aug 20, 2005 8:02:41
I didn't even know White Wolf even had the rights to RL.

They licensed them from WotC several years back.

So how does that work? I wonder if WotC would ever consider selling Mystara's rights?

I sincerely doubt they'd outright sell them, but they have licensed out rights to certain of their properties. The way I understand it, from discussions we've had here and on the MML over the past couple of years (as well as some personal experience with copyrights and holdings), WotC owns the rights to Mystara- period. They got these from TSR when they took over that company. Not quite sure how that works with the whole "Hasbro owns WotC" now idea- I think WotC is considered a Hasbro brand, and cannot be divorced from that company anymore, which would mean that Hasbro really is the copyright/trademark owner. Anyway.

WotC licensed the Ravenloft property to White Wolf, which means that WW could print and sell products with the RL brand on them. Not sure of the specifics (whether WotC got royalties off of them, or, more likely, WW paid a flat fee for a specified period of time to WotC to use the brand). In any event, they were certainly not licensed to print/produce other products in the WotC line- hence, the lack of mention of specific campaign worlds that were connected with the original RL, but not under the WW license (ie, no Forgotten Realms origin for Hazlan, no mention of Dragonlance for Sithicus, no Mystara for Meredoth, etc.).

Conceivably, then, WotC could license out the Mystara brand to a prospective publisher, who could then make products with that name on them. How much it might cost, who would do such a thing, etc, is something that many of us have fancied about for some time.

[EDIT] Think I'll look into getting a more definitive answer on this, and throwing it into the FAQ. I've seen it asked several times now, and even if I can't get a more specific WotC answer, the general question might fit in there.
#287

zombiegleemax

Aug 20, 2005 10:31:33
I would be very interested in the anwser to this. I may soon have the financial capability of trying something like this. It's no big deal really with Mystara not being connected to other settings, because really it isn't. Of course when I mention Mystara, I'm refering to the Known World, Hollow World, Blackmoor and the Red Steel/Savage Coast stuff. As well as the Princess Arks stories.Would be a while before I seriously attempt this, but I would love to do some things as a branch of the corp I'm about to own half of. ;)

Thanks Cthulhudrew for the info.

But anyway, I think Ravenloft will always have the numerical advantage because it's tied into Dragonlance, so they're essentially part of the same campaign setting.

In any event, they were certainly not licensed to print/produce other products in the WotC line- hence, the lack of mention of specific campaign worlds that were connected with the original RL, but not under the WW license (ie, no Forgotten Realms origin for Hazlan, no mention of Dragonlance for Sithicus, no Mystara for Meredoth, etc.).

So in fact Ravenloft was connected to all the other settings? How is this, is it some sort of gateway world? I'm not super familiar with it, other than there is a mist and vampires. :embarrass
This would also mean that Ravenloft was a part of Mystara as well as DragonLance which nullifies any advantage it might have had there anyway. ;) It's only a matter of time before DragonLance falls behind as well. :evillaugh
#288

nemarsde

Aug 20, 2005 13:38:23
I'm not entirely sure what your point is.

Wouldn't be the first time I made a pointless statement, and it probably won't be the last. ;)

I think my point might have been that we shouldn't rate the Mystara forum's performance against Ravenloft's forum, since it has a few advantages. i.e., Stuff in print recently, connections to other stuff in print.

I didn't know Raveloft was connected to Mystara though. I always figured Glantri was like a slice of Mystaran Ravenloft.

Anyway, I think Mystara's got a few tricks up its sleeves, and by the time 4E comes out WotC will be seriously looking at Mystara as a setting to replace FR and Greyhawk. Call it wishful thinking, but I think 4E will be marketed quite differently to 3E. :D
#289

Cthulhudrew

Aug 20, 2005 16:37:06
I think my point might have been that we shouldn't rate the Mystara forum's performance against Ravenloft's forum, since it has a few advantages. i.e., Stuff in print recently, connections to other stuff in print.

It's not so much that we're comparing our performance against their as it is... well, I guess it is that. The whole point of the thread, though, was originally just a fun jaunt to see how quickly our boards might pass theirs, because we'd become a lot more active than previously.

As it stands, we are gaining at a really amazing rate, and it looks like we may end up passing them up by the end of next month.

I didn't know Raveloft was connected to Mystara though. I always figured Glantri was like a slice of Mystaran Ravenloft.

Interesting trivia- module X2: Castle Amber, was the original inspiration for Ravenloft. The "Land of Grey Mists" where the castle is abducted to (and where the first part of the adventure is set) was the model after which Hickman designed the misty prison realm of Ravenloft. In a sense, then, the d'Ambrevilles were the first "true" inhabitants of RL, not Strahd.

In any case, the real "connection" RL has to Ravenloft is through the sorcerer Meredoth, who the "Domains of Dread" campaign setting (the hardcover 2nd edition one- the second? campaign setting reworking) made into an Alphatian wizard before coming to Ravenloft.
#290

nemarsde

Aug 20, 2005 17:44:56
X2: Castle Amber must've been a great module. I've never had the good fortune to read it, but the stuff that came out of it's really fascinating. :D So what came first as a specific (published) setting, Ravenloft or Glantri?
#291

Cthulhudrew

Aug 20, 2005 20:10:13
X2: Castle Amber must've been a great module. I've never had the good fortune to read it, but the stuff that came out of it's really fascinating.

It's... well, it's rather quirky. I really like it myself, but I think primarily due to the nostalgia feeling. The format of the adventure is typical of the early modules- a dungeon crawl (this time in a castle) with all sorts of random monsters hanging around in random locations, with no real rhyme or reason to their placement or existence.

The second part of the module is (IMO) the more interesting part, where the heroes journey around Averoigne (medieval France) in search of items needed to solve the puzzle of the story.

With some expansion and some more explanation and thought given to the creatures in the castle, though, X2 could be a really amazing adventure, and probably expanded into a campaign. I've toyed with the possibilities of creating a series of Neverwinter Nights adventures based on the module- a campaign that would stretch from level 1 to the upper levels (at least 10 or so). I could see doing something similar to a "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil" for Castle Amber as a printed product- expanding the whole thing into a big adventure campaign.

So what came first as a specific (published) setting, Ravenloft or Glantri?

Well, Glantri was first mentioned in module X1: The Isle of Dread, as a magocracy. The next reference to the place, IIRC, is in X2: Castle Amber, which has the players starting out in Glantri (where the d'Ambrevilles, former princes, disappeared and the Grey Mists appeared in their place). There is also a dream sequence in which the adventurers might rescue a prince/princess of Glantri. Both of these modules preceded I6: Ravenloft by about 2 years.

Glantri wasn't further expanded upon until the publication of Gaz3: The Principalities of Glantri, in 1987. (I'm doing a bit of research as I write this, and, though I'd have sworn the Ravenloft boxed set came out first, I'm finding otherwise). The Domains of Dread boxed set (first edition), came out in 1990, and this was the first time RL was developed into a campaign setting. The d'Ambrevilles weren't returned to Mystara until the publication of Gaz3 (previously, they only existed in the module).

However, I10: Ravenloft II- House on Gryphon Hill came out in 1986. This was the first expansion of RL into more than just a "one off" setting, and featured a new domain or two.

So, technically, the answer is Glantri, but it's not that cut and dried. The Gazetteer line began to expand the Known World (Mystara) setting before RL was much more than a couple of modules, but since then, RL has probably gone on to have a bit more product than Mystara. Depends, I guess, on how you define "specific published setting". If only in modules, then Mystara. If in number and quality of references, then RL might have a slight edge (what with Glantri having only been mentioned twice previous to Gaz3, but RL having two full modules set specifically in that place.)

There's a really good site to check out products and publication dates on all TSR/WotC products: TSR Archive
#292

nemarsde

Aug 21, 2005 6:04:00
Well I'm not biased.

So I'm going to say Glantri was first. Ravenloft was second. Mystara wins, Mystara is the best. :D

Seriously though, I do think Mystara is the best of all D&D campaign settings. I'm not even one of these reasonable individuals who think all the campaign settings have their place. Imho Mystara's better than them all...
#293

zombiegleemax

Aug 21, 2005 12:55:31
Well I'm not biased.

So I'm going to say Glantri was first. Ravenloft was second. Mystara wins, Mystara is the best. :D

Seriously though, I do think Mystara is the best of all D&D campaign settings. I'm not even one of these reasonable individuals who think all the campaign settings have their place. Imho Mystara's better than them all...

I agree. I am not one of those as well. One thing about the comparison of the other settings to Mystara. They are much smaller in scale and less diverse. So much of Mystara is un-cannon that you could actually take another setting and work it into the Mystara setting if you like the makeup of the other setting. I've done this myself with some obscure settings. I've grown to prefer cannon or non-cannon stuff for Mystara now and never even glance at other settings anymore, except for ideas to use in campaigns.
#294

Cthulhudrew

Aug 21, 2005 19:06:34
I agree. I am not one of those as well. One thing about the comparison of the other settings to Mystara. They are much smaller in scale and less diverse. So much of Mystara is un-cannon that you could actually take another setting and work it into the Mystara setting if you like the makeup of the other setting. I've done this myself with some obscure settings. I've grown to prefer cannon or non-cannon stuff for Mystara now and never even glance at other settings anymore, except for ideas to use in campaigns.

I was just going to mention the same thing- a lot of the other settings could easily be transposed to various areas of Mystara. James "Mystaros" Mishler did a really interesting map some time ago of Skothar as Oerik where he put the whole of the "known" world of Greyhawk as an addition to the continent of Skothar. Really interesting.

That being said, I find the Forgotten Realms to have some really interesting elements, particularly with its most recent treatment (the 3rd edition hardcovers). I never really liked it in its 2nd edition incarnation- it was too bland, or maybe it was just the product presentation (since a lot of it is rehashed in the new version) but it just didn't jibe with me. The newest products in that line I really, really like for the most part.

Oddly, one of the things I love about Mystara is the insertion of "real world" cultures into the fantasy atmosphere, and putting them all together, while attempts to do similar in the Forgotten Realms, IMO, just fall short. The whole Horde thing wasn't very good, I don't think. It just didn't really fit, plus there wasn't enough effort (IMO) to blend the Mongol idea with the high magic of the Realms, and it just became rather wonky. If I were to have done it, I'd have made the Hordesmen all centaurs, for instance- taking the idea of the Mongol horsewarriors one step further into the realm of fantasy.
#295

Hugin

Aug 21, 2005 20:19:36
Oddly, one of the things I love about Mystara is the insertion of "real world" cultures into the fantasy atmosphere, and putting them all together...

Same here. I think one of the reasons I like it so much is that, because they are based on cultures that I have some familiarity with, I can portray the culture easier. Plus it's easier to research more. However, they are only based on real life cultures which adds an element of unknown (and fantasy, of course )

The best thing about it (IMHO) is the effect it has on names! It feels more like an actual place when the characters (umm, I mean players) have a good chance of knowing an NPC's place of origin just by hearing the name.
#296

gazza555

Aug 22, 2005 9:57:40
Time for an update, I think...

Ravenloft: 680 (-36)
Planescape: 2503 (-43)

Not bad for the weekend.

Regards,
Gary
#297

Hugin

Aug 22, 2005 10:10:51
...Ravenloft: 680 (-36)
...

WOW! This is getting kind of exciting! I can't believe that number used to be over 4000! This thread itself has contributed quite a bit. This is a fun 'off-topic' thread as well. Good laughs!
#298

gazza555

Aug 22, 2005 10:14:57
This thread itself has contributed quite a bit.

As this thread is about 300 posts long so far, I suppose we shouldn't really celebrate til we beat Ravenloft by 400ish. ;) :D

Regards,
Gary
#299

thorf

Aug 22, 2005 10:34:43
Nah, this is our Mystaran solidarity thread. Of course it counts! :D

Besides, there is at least some Mystaran discussion scattered around this thread, so you can't dismiss the whole post count. ;)
#300

gazza555

Aug 22, 2005 10:51:59
Nah, this is our Mystaran solidarity thread. Of course it counts! :D

Of course, we could have a long argument (over dozens of posts) whether or not this thread counts, and before you know it... :D

Regards,
Gary
#301

zombiegleemax

Aug 22, 2005 17:43:09
I think all posts should count in this thread. Afterall pretty much every post is in regards to something to do with Mystara or this forum itself.
The best thing about it (IMHO) is the effect it has on names! It feels more like an actual place when the characters (umm, I mean players) have a good chance of knowing an NPC's place of origin just by hearing the name.

I love this as well. When my players came up with their names I tried to help them find their hometowns using their names and races. Ragnar Maxumis was difficult, but i decided his father was a gladiator that moved the Soderfjord Jarldoms to make a living after earning his freedom int he arena. Found a Norse woman and married her. ;)
#302

nemarsde

Aug 22, 2005 18:59:34
This actually ties-in nicely to Tolkien, considering we're talking about a fantasy setting. After all, the initial reason he created Middle-earth was to give his languages some kind of context, meaning.

If we take Mystara, the names all make sense, because they're based on real world names, which are based on real world languages, etc.

That's one thing I don't like about the other D&D campaign settings, too much gobbledygook.

Of course, you don't always get players that give their characters real world names. Volgantar the Bloodthirsty doesn't strike me as a real world name, for example, but you can still place it.

Where would you place Volgantar the Bloodthirsty?
#303

zombiegleemax

Aug 22, 2005 19:43:31
If we take Mystara, the names all make sense, because they're based on real world names, which are based on real world languages, etc.

That's one thing I don't like about the other D&D campaign settings, too much gobbledygook.

That's interesting, because there are a couple of BD&D products that feature distinctly gobbledygook names, and they really stand out. The most obvious is "Bargle", whose name stood out like a sore thumb when he was inserted into GAZ1. Also some of the older modules, like B1 - In Search of the Unknown, are filled with ridiculous sounding characters. These tend to be the ones that don't have any explicit ties to Mystara anyway.

Since all the gobbledygook names came from the same people at around the same time, though, they have a few things in common. I couldn't really put my finger on it, but if you decide to put them all in one place and make that place part of Mystara (say, the Kingdom of Ghyr, from XL1) they sound pretty consistent. Both B1 and XL1 even have a very few Roman sounding names, which you can use as a sign that Ghyr has Thyatian contacts.

The standard practice, I think, is to put the early modules in Karameikos unless otherwise specified, but I think many of them make more sense in Ghyr. (http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/prodlist.html puts B1 in "Karameikos/Darokin")

Of course, you don't always get players that give their characters real world names. Volgantar the Bloodthirsty doesn't strike me as a real world name, for example, but you can still place it.

Where would you place Volgantar the Bloodthirsty?

Yeah, I tend to encourage people to pick hometowns (or at least cultures) first and then make up the name based on that.
#304

zombiegleemax

Aug 22, 2005 20:45:03
Yeah, I tend to encourage people to pick hometowns (or at least cultures) first and then make up the name based on that.

I sort of do this actually. I ask them what type of character they were thinking of. They describe it then I ask if they have thought of a name. If they say so and tell me I try to match it to a nation in the Known World or Savage Coast. Otherwise I try to match their charcter ideas to a nation that it would work well with. Barbarians to the Northern Reaches, Magicians to Glantri or Alphatia, Thieves to Darokin, Mystics to Ochalea or Sind, etc. I describe the places and they decide which they want. This way they all try to get names that make sense. Of course some like nicknames instead, like my wifes character. Her winged elf character is named Seraphim.
#305

culture20

Aug 22, 2005 20:53:22
The most obvious is "Bargle", whose name stood out like a sore thumb when he was inserted into GAZ1.

Bargle was introduced earlier than that. For people who started with the Red Basic D&D box, Bargle was their first evil villain. His name fits with another aspect of Mystara; goofiness. "Bargle," in english, sounds silly and evil at the same time; and Bargle was the evil wizard that never amounted to much.
#306

zombiegleemax

Aug 22, 2005 21:00:31
Yes that's true. My very first campaign I played the adventure with only 1 player who was my first player. He eventually modeled one of his characters after bargle, but decided to rename him Balzat or something. Having a brain fart and can't quite remember, but I've mentioned him on the boards plenty of times. The character turned into a very good villian, which I'm still toying with having in my current campaign.
#307

nemarsde

Aug 23, 2005 4:01:12
I don't think gobbledygook names are a bad thing when used for a few characters here and there, you can still place them.

You just need an explanation. Why the hell would a parent call their son "Bargle"? (Maybe it was imitative? Does Bargle have some kind of speech impediment?) Did this have something to do with him growing up to be a failed mastervillain? ;)

For me it's when almost everyone and everything has a gobbledygook name that I lose focus.
#308

Cthulhudrew

Aug 23, 2005 4:10:47
You just need an explanation. Why the hell would a parent call their son "Bargle"? (Maybe it was imitative? Does Bargle have some kind of speech impediment?) Did this have something to do with him growing up to be a failed mastervillain? ;)

I'd guess that Bargle renamed himself, since he's supposed to be (IIRC) a Traladaran streetrat. Why he chose the name Bargle, I couldn't tell you, but I'd venture to guess that in remaking himself as an "infamous wizard" he changed just about everything about his past- probably even offed anyone who knew him from his previous life.
#309

Cthulhudrew

Aug 23, 2005 4:15:22
BTW, an update on the theorizing behind the RL reversal of licensing to WotC. As I suspected, it was a decision by Arthaus, not WotC, to return the rights.

There is more information in this thread on the RL boards for anyone interested.
#310

gazza555

Aug 23, 2005 4:33:56
There is more information in this thread on the RL boards for anyone interested.

Just don't post. ;) :D

Regards,
Gary
#311

zombiegleemax

Aug 23, 2005 6:27:24
:heehee
#312

havard

Aug 23, 2005 6:42:39
I'd guess that Bargle renamed himself, since he's supposed to be (IIRC) a Traladaran streetrat. Why he chose the name Bargle, I couldn't tell you, but I'd venture to guess that in remaking himself as an "infamous wizard" he changed just about everything about his past- probably even offed anyone who knew him from his previous life.

IMC, the archwizard's real name is Bargellus. Bargle may have been his streetname from his days as a thief in Specularum, but it any case it has now become adopted by his enemies as a way of insulting him, preferably when he is not around. Baron Ludwig von Hendriks (shouldnt it be Heinrichs btw?) also uses that name every once in a while, just to annoy his partner in crime...

BTW, was it specifically stated anywhere that Bargle is of Traladaran origin? I chose Bargellus to make it sound more Thyatian....

Håvard
#313

zombiegleemax

Aug 23, 2005 16:41:15
Bargle was introduced earlier than that. For people who started with the Red Basic D&D box, Bargle was their first evil villain. His name fits with another aspect of Mystara; goofiness. "Bargle," in english, sounds silly and evil at the same time; and Bargle was the evil wizard that never amounted to much.

Right, that's what I meant - it was fine (goofy, but not out of place) in the Basic Set, but once they put the Basic Set background info into Karameikos it didn't fit. Same with a bunch of the other stuff which they created before kicking off the Known World for real, like B1.
#314

havard

Aug 24, 2005 4:21:54
Right, that's what I meant - it was fine (goofy, but not out of place) in the Basic Set, but once they put the Basic Set background info into Karameikos it didn't fit. Same with a bunch of the other stuff which they created before kicking off the Known World for real, like B1.

True. That is why when using these sources, you need to be a bit creative, and tweak a few details to make them fit properly for Mystara. But when I have done that, I find that these old tidbits work wonderfully well as sources of inspiration for further detailing the Known World, especially Karameikos. That was also the fact with the Bargle/Bargellus concept; I have great plans for that guy IMC, involving taking over the Crater of Glantri.

Håvard
#315

Hugin

Aug 24, 2005 10:32:12
We've been very busy lately so here's another update...

Ravenloft: 575 (-105)
Planescape: 2401 (-102)

Plus, we're less than 25 posts away from the big 8000 post mark!
#316

gazza555

Aug 24, 2005 10:41:18
OOOoooohhhh!!! You beat me to it, Hugin. :D

It's my own fault though I was waiting til there was less than 2400 posts between Planescape and Mystara. Then again with your post and this one. .

Those pesky planar travellers have been posting again.

Regards,
Gary
#317

happylarry

Aug 24, 2005 13:49:34
Just doing my bit to add to the posts. I imagine I'm allowed one fairly pointless post being new here...

It's good to see Mystara alive and well - I only discovered this message board a week ago - but it's been fun so far. Keep up the good work!
#318

thorf

Aug 24, 2005 14:09:52
Welcome to the Mystara board, happylarry. We're been slowly gaining on the Ravenloft and Planescape boards since January. I think when we finally overtake Ravenloft, pretty soon, we're all going to be as happy as you. (Excuse the joke, I couldn't resist ;))
#319

Hugin

Aug 24, 2005 14:20:12
OOOoooohhhh!!! You beat me to it, Hugin. :D

It's my own fault though I was waiting til there was less than 2400 posts between Planescape and Mystara. Then again with your post and this one. .

:P Hehehehe. That's happened to me a few times; waiting for a nice round number to post at and someone beats me to it! As a matter of fact, I think YOU beat me to one of them! :whatsthis

Just had to mention we're less than 1,000 behind Ravenloft now.

Regards,
Gary

Yep! There it is! Aha! Vengence is a dish best served cold. Kind a like Frosted Flakes! (no, that's not right) Now, what was I doing...?
#320

zombiegleemax

Aug 24, 2005 14:34:46
Just doing my bit to add to the posts. I imagine I'm allowed one fairly pointless post being new here...

It's good to see Mystara alive and well - I only discovered this message board a week ago - but it's been fun so far. Keep up the good work!

Don't worry too much about pointless posts. I'm the king of those around here. Like this one. Welcome to the boards!
#321

graywolf-elm

Aug 25, 2005 17:58:03
I must say, I am pleased to see the activity here lately, and am really enjoying some of the perspective that people here bring to Mystara.

GW
#322

gazza555

Aug 26, 2005 10:43:02
Update time:

Ravenloft: 514 (-61)
Planescape: 2324 (-77)

Signing off now 'til Tuesday, it's a Bank Holiday over here in the UK. :D
Hopefully when I get back, we'll be less than 500 posts for Ravenloft and 2300 posts from Planescape. ;)

Regards,
Gary
#323

thorf

Aug 26, 2005 12:13:16
I'm away for most of the weekend too. Have fun, guys! Don't slack off on posting. ;)
#324

zombiegleemax

Aug 27, 2005 15:49:54
No prob guys I'll try to help pick it up for the weekend. Have fun, see you when you get back.
#325

gazza555

Aug 30, 2005 4:37:00
Hopefully when I get back, we'll be less than 500 posts for Ravenloft and 2300 posts from Planescape. ;)

Congratulations.

Well you did it over the weekend, so update time.

Ravenloft: 446 (-68)
Planescape: 2250 (-74)

Keep up the good work and we will make it by the end (if not earlier) of September. :D

Regards,
Gary
#326

zombiegleemax

Aug 30, 2005 17:21:52
:evillaugh Yes! Hopefully very soon. I think by this weekend we'll be at about -300, I hope.
#327

gazza555

Sep 01, 2005 6:44:43
Monthly update time again. :D

[HTML]Setting 1st Aug 1st Sept Change
Dragonlance 34095 34004 -91
Dark Sun 24809 25226 +417
Greyhawk 8362 7855 -507
Planescape 2930 2195 -735
Ravenloft 1116 390 -726[/HTML]

So if the posting rate carries on like this we'll have caught up with Ravenloft by the end of the month; Planescape in about 3 months; and Greyhawk by the end of next year.

Oh! and Dragonlance in October 2036 (I think). ;)

Regards,
Gary
#328

zombiegleemax

Sep 01, 2005 10:58:58
I am still amazed and stunned by Dark Sun Boards' prolific contributors! Are they intelligent Net programs or what, to produce so many posts every day??

Anyway, keep on running.. aerr.. I meant POSTING, folks! ;) :P
#329

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Sep 01, 2005 11:31:49
I think they are in a chase to overtake Dragonlance by the end of the year. I'm sure they stole the idea from us
#330

zombiegleemax

Sep 02, 2005 16:18:16
...about 20 days left to prove myself right about passing Ravenloft before summer's end...
#331

gazza555

Sep 06, 2005 4:10:38
Update time...
Ravenloft: 369 (-21)
Planescape: 2128 (-67)

...about 20 days left to prove myself right about passing Ravenloft before summer's end...

Which means we need to post about 19 posts more than Ravenloft each day. So if each of us could manage 2 or 3 posts a day, we should easily make it. :D

Regards,
Gary
#332

havard

Sep 06, 2005 6:32:09
Update time...
Ravenloft: 369 (-21)
Planescape: 2128 (-67)



Which means we need to post about 19 posts more than Ravenloft each day. So if each of us could manage 2 or 3 posts a day, we should easily make it. :D

Working on it! ;)

Håvard
#333

zombiegleemax

Sep 06, 2005 18:21:08
I think I'm averaging about 4 or 5 usually.
#334

thorf

Sep 06, 2005 23:58:04
Unfortunately I don't know how much time I have to contribute this month... Things have gotten a bit busy for me again here.

Still, I'll do my best to chip in when I get the time.
#335

havard

Sep 07, 2005 6:44:53
Unfortunately I don't know how much time I have to contribute this month... Things have gotten a bit busy for me again here.

Still, I'll do my best to chip in when I get the time.

We miss your maps man

Håvard
#336

gazza555

Sep 07, 2005 7:16:51
We miss your maps man

Seconded. :D

Regards,
Gary
#337

zombiegleemax

Sep 07, 2005 17:25:19
Seconded. :D

Regards,
Gary

Seconding the Seconded.

I hope you find a little time to squeeze a couple in.
#338

Hugin

Sep 08, 2005 10:56:30
It feels like a long time since last update, so...
Ravenloft: 295 (-74)
Planescape: 2053 (-75)

We've fallen behind in our post quota a little bit; it now will require an average of 21 posts per day to overtake Ravenloft by the end of summer.

I can't believe how close we are though!
#339

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Sep 08, 2005 12:54:29
Are we there yet?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Are we there yet?
#340

maddog

Sep 08, 2005 13:12:04
No, not yet.

If you sit down and be good, we may just buy some ice cream.

:D
#341

zombiegleemax

Sep 09, 2005 23:23:53
Once I get the focus moves converted for my new Mystic idea, I'll be adding anywhere from 10-15 posts in one day. That will gove a nice boost, but it's still not enough.
#342

havard

Sep 13, 2005 9:30:35
Unfortunately I don't know how much time I have to contribute this month... Things have gotten a bit busy for me again here.

Still, I'll do my best to chip in when I get the time.

For those yearning for maps, check out the map I posted over in the Thunder Rift Project Thread!

Not as nice as Thorf's I'll admit but.... ;)

Håvard
#343

gazza555

Sep 13, 2005 10:38:48
Update time again.

Ravenloft: 227 (-68)
Planescape: 2006 (-47)

Regards,
Gary
#344

gazza555

Sep 14, 2005 10:26:11
Apologies for an update so soon but I just had to point out that we are now less than 200 post behind Ravenloft and less than 2000 posts behind Planescape. :D

Ravenloft: 199 (-28)
Planescape: 1985 (-21)

:bounce:

Regards,
Gary
#345

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Sep 14, 2005 10:38:32
No apology necessary for good news!

#346

maddog

Sep 14, 2005 10:54:40
199 to go! Time to pile on the postings!

:pile:
#347

Hugin

Sep 14, 2005 10:58:16
This is weird! I look forward to surpassing Ravenloft and the anticipation of it is alot like a kid waiting for Christmas! Funny really.
#348

zombiegleemax

Sep 14, 2005 18:05:54
Me too. Any chance we should do daily updates till we pass RL? :D
#349

zombiegleemax

Sep 15, 2005 7:27:37
Okay. I'm back, and ready to post. :fight!:

(Although I have nothing really to say. :embarrass )
#350

Hugin

Sep 15, 2005 10:16:12
Welcome back LW! It's OK if you don't have anything to say yet, but if you do find yourself with nothing to say and would still like to share that, then this is the thread to do it!

See? I didn't really say anything ;) . (One more post closer to our prey)
#351

zombiegleemax

Sep 15, 2005 10:37:31
I would like to publically congratulate myself on my brilliant strategy of forgetting half of what I was gonna say mid-post, and then having to follow up to myself twice to get it all out.
#352

zombiegleemax

Sep 15, 2005 10:39:07
(Like this, see?)

That puts us at 150 even! Except I just ruined that.
#353

gazza555

Sep 15, 2005 10:51:35
I would like to publically congratulate myself on my brilliant strategy of forgetting half of what I was gonna say mid-post, and then having to follow up to myself twice to get it all out.

(Like this, see?)

That puts us at 150 even! Except I just ruined that.

Now thats just cheating... Carry on the good work. ;)

Me too. Any chance we should do daily updates till we pass RL?

You got it, personally I was thinking of hourly updates. :D

Ravenloft: 148 (-51)
Planescape: 1938 (-47)

Regards,
Gary
#354

zombiegleemax

Sep 15, 2005 17:32:25
Hourly sounds good to me. I'll try to get one later if you don't beat me to it.
#355

zombiegleemax

Sep 15, 2005 17:33:38
Now thats just cheating... Carry on the good work. ;)

And who ever said cheating was bad. We are still carrying on a conversation about D&D. Even if it is just about adding more posts to a D&D thread. Now you guys got me doing it. Wait, I do this all the time. :angelhide
#356

zombiegleemax

Sep 15, 2005 18:40:39
Ok, another update.

Mystara has 8578

Ravenloft: 121 (-27)
Planescape: 1911 (-27)

Ok, not bad for just 8 hours.
#357

Hugin

Sep 15, 2005 18:58:53
You really don't want your prediction of surpassing RL by the end of summer to fail, do you tjedge1? :D Me neither, so here's another step forward!

I would like to publically congratulate myself on my brilliant strategy of forgetting half of what I was gonna say mid-post, and then having to follow up to myself twice to get it all out.

LOL!!! Be careful! Those brain-farts are contagious! I catch them all the time!
#358

graywolf-elm

Sep 15, 2005 21:11:48
I've been saving some stuff for just this occasion to try and do my part.



GW
#359

zombiegleemax

Sep 16, 2005 6:09:10
You really don't want your prediction of surpassing RL by the end of summer to fail, do you tjedge1? :D Me neither, so here's another step forward!

Thanks, and no I don't. We are so close, I would just if we miss it by a day or two. I believe Wednesday is the deadline and I may have a few hours on Saturday that I might just get a little post crazy.
#360

Hugin

Sep 16, 2005 8:19:58
Update!!

Mystara has 8600

Ravenloft: 100 (-21)
Planescape: 1889 (-22)

Had to post an update once I saw the spread was down to 100 (I guess it's actually 99 now including this post!)
#361

gazza555

Sep 16, 2005 9:04:34
Right then! We're 92 posts behind Ravenloft (as I type) with 5 days to go, so we need 18-19 more posts per day than Ravenloft. So assuming Ravenloft post 6 or so posts a day we'll need 25-ish. Let's say 30 to be safe. ;)

Over to you chaps.
Regards,
Gary
#362

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Sep 16, 2005 9:42:50
Countdowns are fun. Mystara is fun.

Therefore this thread = fun squared.
#363

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Sep 16, 2005 9:45:07
Boy that was a useless post....

Will we start a new thread to take down Planescape once we whack Ravenloft?
#364

Hugin

Sep 16, 2005 10:07:18
Will we start a new thread to take down Planescape once we whack Ravenloft?

I think we should! Goals are a good thing to have in life. :D

I also think we'll catch RL by the deadline. If not we could be fired!

I was just thinking what the moderators of this forum must be thinking! I wonder if they're thinking of locking this thread or just laughing along with us!

Oh, LONG LIVE MYSTARA!!! (relevance covered)
#365

thorf

Sep 16, 2005 13:47:43
Wow, you guys are doing a great job in my temporary absence! I have an absolute ton of interesting posts to catch up on.

About the moderators, I reckon that they don't bother to read most of our board. Of course I may be wrong, but we're such a friendly community 99% of the time, and from what I've seen there is such a lot of work to be done on other boards on this site...

Yay us!!!
#366

Hugin

Sep 16, 2005 14:04:11
Wow, you guys are doing a great job in my temporary absence! I have an absolute ton of interesting posts to catch up on.

About the moderators, I reckon that they don't bother to read most of our board. Of course I may be wrong, but we're such a friendly community 99% of the time, and from what I've seen there is such a lot of work to be done on other boards on this site...

Yay us!!!

Spoken truth if ever I've heard it!

I feel like a kid, "Are we there yet?, Are we there yet?" :D
#367

zombiegleemax

Sep 17, 2005 9:44:55
Me too, I'm so excited! And I just can't hide it...Oh that is not a good song.
I'm about to get crazy with some posts, I got a bunch of Mystic stuff to work on today and possibly 5 or 6 hours of nothing else to do. I may look for some older topics to comment on, hope you guys don't mind.
#368

zombiegleemax

Sep 17, 2005 10:05:47
Ok an update for today:
I'll do another before I leave the forums today.

Mystara: 8639
RavenLoft: 8699 (-22)
Planescape: 10489 (-31)

The RL update difference is from Gazza555's update, and the PS upadate is from Hugin's update.
#369

zombiegleemax

Sep 17, 2005 13:48:51
Hmm, I goofed on the totals in that last update. I'll make sure they are right this time. The differences were correct however.

Ok another update for today. Almost 6 hours later

Mystara: 8654
RavenLoft: 8710 (-14)
Planescape: 10497 (-15)

Not bad for almost just myself this morning.
#370

zombiegleemax

Sep 19, 2005 3:24:05
Can this be true?

38 posts to go???

Or am I miscalculating here?
#371

gazza555

Sep 19, 2005 3:27:49
Can this be true?

38 posts to go???

Or am I miscalculating here?

No that's right except it's 36 posts to go!!!

(sorry - 35 now) :D

Regards,
Gary
#372

thorf

Sep 19, 2005 6:50:11
I have a bit of free time, so I'm catching up on some of the (many) threads I've been missing out on lately. Unfortunately I will be forced to leave comments in many of them. ;) :D
#373

zombiegleemax

Sep 19, 2005 7:02:48
30...
#374

Traianus_Decius_Aureus

Sep 19, 2005 15:17:29
Down to 23 posts!

#375

zombiegleemax

Sep 19, 2005 17:47:27
I brought it up to 8700 even earlier with one post that I probably wouldn't have bothered with otherwise... but then I didn't want to advertise the fact by posting here. Well, now that the nice even number's been broken, I can!
#376

zombiegleemax

Sep 19, 2005 17:50:00
(Also, this post makes it an even 20!)
#377

maddog

Sep 19, 2005 20:53:31
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? :D

--Ray.
#378

Hugin

Sep 19, 2005 20:59:45
It's Christmas Eve and I can't sleep! :D
#379

zombiegleemax

Sep 20, 2005 2:26:08
With this post:

8!
#380

zombiegleemax

Sep 20, 2005 4:23:35
With this post there is only one more to go, so I can't help it:
#381

zombiegleemax

Sep 20, 2005 4:24:42
Well, comparing this forum with the other OOP boards shows that Mystara isnt the smallest kid. We are way ahead of Spelljammer and Birthright. Still, Ravenloft is next with about 4000 posts more than us.

Think we'll ever catch up? ;)

Håvard

Oh, yes we will!!!

#382

gazza555

Sep 20, 2005 4:29:12
Update (from tjedge1s last update)
Ravenloft: -2 (-58)
Planescape: 1788 (-55)

Oh, yes we will!!!

WILL?
HAVE



Regards,
Gary
#383

Cthulhudrew

Sep 20, 2005 4:42:19
Woohoo! Way to go everyone!

:bounce:

(Now if we can just pass those Planescapers...)
#384

maddog

Sep 20, 2005 6:29:22
Let's all get drunk!

Now the fight for Mystaran domination can begin! :fight!:

(I've always wanted to use the fight emoticon!)

--Ray.
#385

zombiegleemax

Sep 20, 2005 6:32:28

"Give me an M...Give me a Y...Give me an S...Give me a T...Give me an A...Give me an R...Give me another A...What's that spell? Mystara!!!!
:invasion:

We rock.
#386

thorf

Sep 20, 2005 6:57:59
We are now stopping at Ravenloft. All passengers for Ravenloft please leave by the right side of the train.

No one?

Didn't think so. :evillaugh

Next stop, Planescape! Please have your tickets ready for checking.


:invasion: :invasion: :invasion:
#387

havard

Sep 20, 2005 8:09:37
We are now stopping at Ravenloft. All passengers for Ravenloft please leave by the right side of the train.

No one?

Didn't think so. :evillaugh

Next stop, Planescape! Please have your tickets ready for checking.


:invasion: :invasion: :invasion:

HUZZAH!!!!
#388

Hugin

Sep 20, 2005 10:14:26
I knew that you guys would do it WHILE I WAS SLEEPING!!!

But hey! Right now I'm standing on the back of the train and waving goodbye to Ravenloft. Here's my ticket, Thorf! Station Planescape is next but it isn't that far away so enjoy the scenery.

Congrats to all!
#389

havard

Sep 20, 2005 10:23:01
I knew that you guys would do it WHILE I WAS SLEEPING!!!

But hey! Right now I'm standing on the back of the train and waving goodbye to Ravenloft. Here's my ticket, Thorf! Station Planescape is next but it isn't that far away so enjoy the scenery.

Congrats to all!

Enjoy the celebrations! But we cant let this make us lazy. Gotta move on!
The trip towards Planescape can be viewed here in this thread, created just for the occation!

I'm definately not getting off at this stop. I hope I can still be here when we get to Dragonlance!

Håvard
#390

gazza555

Sep 20, 2005 10:25:58
I hope I can still be here when we get to Dragonlance!

Yeah! but we'll be playing DnD 35 not 3.5 ;)

Regards,
Gary
#391

havard

Sep 20, 2005 10:29:09
Yeah! but we'll be playing DnD 35 not 3.5 ;)

:heehee

Yeah, or 35.5 ;)

At least we'll still have something to talk about and rules to convert. And the Wizards will be counting their cash. Unless they have been bought by Bill Gates...

Håvard
#392

zombiegleemax

Sep 20, 2005 18:04:36
Or by me. :evillaugh

I would hope it won't take to v35.3 to catch DragonLance.

Speaking of catching them, have any of you heard anythign about a movie based ont he DragonLance Chronicles? Someone told me it was in the works. I almost screamed when they said it. I told them the Wrath of the Immortals or the Champions of Mystara would have been way better. Far more epic and adventurous IMHO. Not to mentio it will only bring in more fans for DragonLance instead of Mystara. Anyone else heard this?
#393

Cthulhudrew

Sep 20, 2005 18:17:27
Speaking of catching them, have any of you heard anythign about a movie based ont he DragonLance Chronicles? Someone told me it was in the works. I almost screamed when they said it. I told them the Wrath of the Immortals or the Champions of Mystara would have been way better. Far more epic and adventurous IMHO. Not to mentio it will only bring in more fans for DragonLance instead of Mystara. Anyone else heard this?

There's been talk of a Dragonlance movie for years- usually an animated one, but I think there's been discussion of live-action, too. Nothing has ever come of them, though, just bandying about of the concept. If there's been something recent, I haven't heard of it.
#394

zombiegleemax

Sep 20, 2005 18:24:36
Thanks. I was half hoping it was a rumor. Only half because it would be good to see a D&D movie that wasn't half written. At least the Chronicles have a good concept and story. Adventure, Romance, Tragedy, Horror, etc. The last D&D movie had some laughes, but mostly I slept through it. And absolutely hated the end.
#395

havard

Sep 21, 2005 6:14:47
Thanks. I was half hoping it was a rumor. Only half because it would be good to see a D&D movie that wasn't half written. At least the Chronicles have a good concept and story. Adventure, Romance, Tragedy, Horror, etc. The last D&D movie had some laughes, but mostly I slept through it. And absolutely hated the end.

Even though this will sound like more heresy, I would love to see a Dragonlance Movie. I enjoy the novels, at least the ones by Weis and Hickman, and I think they could be translated into an excellent movie if the right people were involved. OTOH, it could also easily be translated into a really crappy movie, like the first D&D movie, in spite of having my hero Dave Arneson as a consultant.

I liked the second D&D movie though, I thought it was pretty good for a low budged film, and the effects worked decent enough. I also liked that it was set in the FR. Not because I like FR, but because using one of the official settings made a whole lot more sense than designing a new crappy one just for the movie.

A movie based on VotPA or WotI could have been cool, but the storyline would have to be massively rewritten to fit the silver screen and given the likelyness of a low budget and incompetent people involved with it, perhaps we should pass on this oppurtunity if it is ever offered to us. I mean, look at the Mystara novels....

Håvard
#396

gazza555

Sep 21, 2005 6:25:38
Just noticed that Ravenloft is still ahead in one respect - the number of threads! (about 175)

Of course, that just means our threads are more interesting because we get more posts per thread. ;)

Regards,
Gary
#397

Cthulhudrew

Sep 21, 2005 6:38:33
Just noticed that Ravenloft is still ahead in one respect - the number of threads! (about 175)

Of course, that just means our threads are more interesting because we get more posts per thread. ;)

I noticed that too, but I took it as a positive thing- as you say, we get more posts per thread, which means probably more interactivity, and less waste.
#398

zombiegleemax

Sep 21, 2005 11:30:30
I liked the second D&D movie though, I thought it was pretty good for a low budged film, and the effects worked decent enough. I also liked that it was set in the FR. Not because I like FR, but because using one of the official settings made a whole lot more sense than designing a new crappy one just for the movie.

There was a second D&D movie? Theatrical, or direct-to-video? How'd I miss this? (Hmm, imdb had it, but the info's really sparse - must've been obscure!)
#399

zombiegleemax

Sep 21, 2005 19:10:48
There was a second D&D movie? Theatrical, or direct-to-video? How'd I miss this? (Hmm, imdb had it, but the info's really sparse - must've been obscure!)

I must have missed this one too. I'll be looking for it soon then.
#400

Cthulhudrew

Sep 21, 2005 20:21:00
I think they showed it on the Sci-Fi channel recently. No theatrical release. Didn't realize it was set in FR, though.

[EDIT] This news just in- D&D II: Movie Premiere
#401

Hugin

Sep 22, 2005 17:13:47
Couldn't resist the oppurtunity to get this thread up to 400 replies.

Thanks for letting us know about that second D&D movie; I had no idea there was one. It looks like it isn't half bad either so I'm going to hunt it down to see it. Anybody see it yet?