What I'm finding is not hugely surprising, but it is nonetheless rather disturbing: nothing less than total confusion between the two maps.
There are countless problems, discontinuities, and things that are just totally different between the two scales, however you look at it. I'm primarily discussing a comparison of the 8 mile per hex trail maps and the Wrath of the Immortals 24 mile per hex map, but I think any pair of maps showing the same regions should do.
It doesn't seem to matter how you overlay the bigger hex grid, although it looks suspiciously like the different Gazetteer maps were made with the grid in different positions to convert from the original 24 mile per hex Expert Set map.
Example 1: Glantri. Placing the overlay grid is easy, because the border makes it quite obvious where it was placed during conversion. Glantri City ends up as the middle bottom of a big 24 mile hex, while the northern forest valleys near the Wendar border fit nicely inside one 24 mile hex each.
Things seem to check out okay here: the terrain is reasonably consistent, as are the placings of the settlements between the two maps. However, now look at the borders. They're completely different in the north and the west! According to Wrath's map, Wendar owns the two westernmost mountain valleys. In fact, the whole border has moved significantly south! The border with Heldann has also changed, giving two 24 mile hill hexes to Glantri that they don't have on the 8 mile map.
Example 2: Thyatis. The placing of the towns on the 24 mile per hex map is totally inconsistent with the 8 mile per hex maps. Thyatis City and all the western coastal towns are one hex too far north.
I'd like to give some more examples - there are so many more points to note - but I don't have the time right now.
This leaves us with the disturbing thought of having to choose which set of maps is more correct. I'm inclined to go with the more detailed 8 mile per hex maps, but a good case could be made for the 24 mile per hex maps too, I think.
Håvard
I prefer the 24 miles per hex format. 8 mile hexes is just too much detail compared to how much ground can be covered on a smaller map.
Håvard
I feel completely the opposite. Too many nice little details like small rivers and valleys are lost on the big maps. I can look at a 8-mile hex map and envision the landscape. When I look at a 24-mile hex of forest, I think: "Oh well, it could be 30% farmland and 20% rocky hills but I cannot know for sure..."
:-) Jesper
Why should the maps be consitent? - even with magic I doubt if mapping techniques are up to Victorian standards* - for one thing there are a lot more monsters to snack on unwary survey crews.
Also international borders are always tricky unless they fall along a natural landmark like a river (until the river moves in it's floodplain). For borders of the edge of a near impassable mountain range (i.e. Glantri-Wendar/Heldann) - Glantri probably doesn't care what they own beyond the mountains - they can't get there. Of course exiles from Wendar/Heldann who like living across the border (without Glantri's knowledge) could care, and get really upset when a new map puts them paying tax again - instand diplomtic incident.
Similarly Thyatian maps may be less accurate due to bribes/lack of magic/incompetence/whatever.
Personally I don't mind the incosistencies too much, and they can be used to base adventures on.
*Oh yes - Victorian mapping - they measured the height of Everest in two ways and got a discrepancy of a few inches - this enabled scientists to work out that mountains go down as well as up. The error was far too large to be inaccurate measurements! They mapped India using triangulations and pretty much got it right - however they needed some fairly advanced mathematics to do so.
In any case, I am planning to have a go at making a revised 24 mile per hex map based on the 8 mile per hex maps. It will be very interesting to compare it with the existing maps, I think.
Kheldren, I also appreciate your approach. It's a good way to explain the inconsistencies. Unfortunately, when it comes to developing new maps, we really need for things to be consistent. For example, while starting on my Atruaghin map today, I needed a source for the coastal waters, which are not shown on the GAZ14 map. The only map that shows this feature is Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure's 24 mile per hex map - a most unlikely source, but never mind. ;)
The problem then quickly becomes apparent when the 8 mile per hex map completely fails to line up with the smaller scale map. And it's not just the coast, but also the country's borders, the plateau itself - in fact, it's hard to find anything that does line up.
I have strong suspicions that this will also be the case with the 72 mile per hex maps, which of course trim out even more detail. In the end it may be necessary to choose between going with the existing official maps or developing a new, more accurate one based on the 8 mile per hex maps. For now, I'm willing (and able) to do both, so we'll definitely have to revisit this topic once I've posted them.
For example, while starting on my Atruaghin map today, I needed a source for the coastal waters, which are not shown on the GAZ14 map. The only map that shows this feature is Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure's 24 mile per hex map - a most unlikely source, but never mind. ;)
The problem then quickly becomes apparent when the 8 mile per hex map completely fails to line up with the smaller scale map. And it's not just the coast, but also the country's borders, the plateau itself - in fact, it's hard to find anything that does line up.
I recommend using the revised Atruaghin map by Cthuldrew here at the forum (sorry - don't have time to look for the post right now)
:-) Jesper
Of course, as soon as you get outside of the Gazetteer nations, the 24 mile per hex maps, or sometimes the 72 mile per hex maps, are the only thing we have to go on. Even Wendar, Sind and Heldann, countries bordering the Gazetteer nations, require us to go to the 24 mile scale to see their full territories. So, in many ways the official 24 mile per hex maps show us more than the 8 mile ones.
But in the end, it would be nice to have detailed 8 mile per hex maps of as many places as possible, and it's this which is looking problematic.
There are countless problems, discontinuities, and things that are just totally different between the two scales, however you look at it. I'm primarily discussing a comparison of the 8 mile per hex trail maps and the Wrath of the Immortals 24 mile per hex map, but I think any pair of maps showing the same regions should do.
This is indeed a problem that I've encountered. What I ultimately went with was the "original" Expert set/X1 map of the Known World as the "base" 24 mile map. If you compare the 24 mile hexes there with the early Gaz maps (particularly Gaz1-Gaz5) you can see pretty well how things matched up. For some reason the mountain ranges of Soderfjord don't quite match up, but the Canolbarth forest, Karameikos, Darokin, and Glantri do.
It doesn't seem to matter how you overlay the bigger hex grid, although it looks suspiciously like the different Gazetteer maps were made with the grid in different positions to convert from the original 24 mile per hex Expert Set map.
That's how it seems to me, too.
Things seem to check out okay here: the terrain is reasonably consistent, as are the placings of the settlements between the two maps. However, now look at the borders. They're completely different in the north and the west! According to Wrath's map, Wendar owns the two westernmost mountain valleys. In fact, the whole border has moved significantly south! The border with Heldann has also changed, giving two 24 mile hill hexes to Glantri that they don't have on the 8 mile map.
The border thing is always going to be a bit problematic, if only due to the "breaking down" of the larger hexes into smaller (8 mile) hexes. You're going to get at least slightly different border at the smaller scale.
One other thing to bear in mind is that, as new geographic territories were explored, the borders may have changed simply due to new ways of looking at the nation/culture/history, etc. In other words, I figure the "newer" borders are probably more accurate than older ones, when not a lot of foresight was given to the areas not yet detailed.
The Wendar border thing on the WotI map, though, is a major change. Can't say I fully understand why that happened, except to say that the borders on that map don't seem to fit very well. We'd probably be better off ignoring them.
Example 2: Thyatis. The placing of the towns on the 24 mile per hex map is totally inconsistent with the 8 mile per hex maps. Thyatis City and all the western coastal towns are one hex too far north.
Hadn't noticed that, but I think it has something to do with the idea that at that scale, it's very difficult to get all the towns and things accurately placed, especially when they are located close together. They want to show them, but trying to fit them knocks them out of place.
This leaves us with the disturbing thought of having to choose which set of maps is more correct. I'm inclined to go with the more detailed 8 mile per hex maps, but a good case could be made for the 24 mile per hex maps too, I think.
I always take the 8 mile maps as the definitive versions, except in cases where there are no 8 mile maps (Sind, for example). In that case, I just use the 24 mile maps as guidelines, and alter things correspondingly.
BTW, Thorf, if you think this is confusing now, wait till you get to mapping out Norwold and the Isle of Dawn. I tried to do that waaay back when using the (supposedly) 24 mile hex maps of Norwold and Wendar/Denagoth in the CM modules and X11- that's the mapping that led to the discovery of what Geoff named Kamminer Bay north of Frieburg- there just wasn't enough room for the peninsula off of Landfall to appear the way it does on the Dawn of the Emperors map.
I recently went back with my newer hexes and started mapping this area (was actually mapping the northern part of the Isle of Dawn) only to encounter the problem again. If you take the CM maps as 24 miles per hex- then the entire northern portion of the Isle of Dawn on those maps is offscale (the Helskir region) from other maps. I can only conclude that the CM maps are actually supposed to be at 36 miles per hex rather than the stated 24... but since everything else that has been mapped by myself and others is at the stated 24, I just decided it was easier to assume the Isle of Dawn portion of those maps was at the wrong scale and keep the 24 mile scale of Norwold. Talk about headaches!
It seems my initial assumption that all the 24 mile per hex maps would be the same was a very big mistake.As you said, that map lines up pretty well with the Gazetteer maps, more or less. It seems very likely that the 8 mile per hex maps were mostly based on the original Expert Set map.
Also, I haven't checked it out properly yet, but could it be that the Atruaghin problems also sprang from the use of this map as a base? After all, the Expert Set map cuts the plateau in half...
Anyway, I look forward to the Kamminer Bay mess you speak of. ;) It won't be the first, and I'm absolutely sure it won't be the last inconsistency with maps that I deal with.
Also, I haven't checked it out properly yet, but could it be that the Atruaghin problems also sprang from the use of this map as a base? After all, the Expert Set map cuts the plateau in half...
Could be. The first "real" picture we get of the entire plateau comes in, I think, Dragon magazine (the one where they go to Sind- can't think of the issue # offhand- 169?). Either there, or in Dawn of the Emperors. One of those places was the first appearance of the 24 mile hex map of the plateau (or the "rest") of the plateau, IIRC. Those are the versions that don't match up, and throw off the "official" version from the Gaz.
Anyway, you're right Dawn of the Emperors does indeed show the whole plateau, but of course at 72 miles per hex.
And to make things worse, I can't see that the outline of the plateau on that map will line up well with the 24 mile per hex maps, let alone the 8 mile per hex GAZ14 map! 
Dragon 169 (good memory!) has almost the whole plateau, but I haven't compared it to the others yet. It's certainly going to be interesting to see if they all line up. I have a feeling the answer will be no! :surrender
Oh well, it's going to be a fun journey!
:evillaughEdit: One of the bonuses of having all these map files to work with is that it's relatively easy to do overlays. And when it comes to converting maps, it's also easy to shrink to 33.3% or expand to 300%. This means I can create visual guides in minutes - a 24 miles per hex grid over the 8 mile per hex trail maps, for example. Look forward to seeing some of this soon, maybe late next week. :D
*Afterthought* Something like this could actually make a cool adventure.
However, unfortunately the 8 mile per hex map in Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure doesn't back this up, as it still has the old GAZ1/Expert Set borders.
Personally, I'm more inclined just to make a new 24 mile per hex map based on all the available evidence and go with that. :evillaugh