But being a setting that traces its roots back through the annals of D&D history, Grehawk has made an impression upon many...
But is it a setting purely for those old timers, who perhaps live in a world of nostalgic rememberings, and out of date loyalties?
Where one must labour endlessly, and scour the world for past published works to fill in the gaps...
Is it a dead world then, clinging on to a dwindling life?
Or is it perhaps something else...
"What is Greyhawk?"
But is it a setting purely for those old timers, who perhaps live in a world of nostalgic rememberings, and out of date loyalties?
I can't say that it is because I started playing pen & paper RPGs in 1992 (in a non-D&D game) and the world of Greyhawk is one of my favorites these days. I also play other RPGs in other settings, but when it comes to D&D 3.5E, I stick with GH.
Where one must labour endlessly, and scour the world for past published works to fill in the gaps...
I don't think so. Most of the stuff I know about Greyhawk was taken from the net. Sites like Canonfire have great in-depth information on the setting. Also, those "past published works" are incredibly easy to find since they all exist in PDF nowadays.
Is it a dead world then, clinging on to a dwindling life?
As long as the RPGA is making money off the Living Greyhawk campaign, I don't think it will die. However, I do feel a bit disappointed for not seeing WotC giving more fluff material for Greyhawk.
"What is Greyhawk?"
To me it's a classic worth playing because:
1 - It captures the true feeling of D&D from when the game was created (at least it does so better than any other current setting out there).
2 - It has just enough background information to spark your mind with ideas, but has enough "breathing" room to add your own stuff. Really... my Greyhawk doesn't look or feel the same as anyone else's but that's how I like it.
PS: I can understand how that might frustrate GMs who don't want to waste time making their own world but... hey... you can't please everyone.
How dare you, priest of *blub*, to speak in this manner about my BABY?! :headexplo
May Hextor's fury make you loose all your teeth and fingernails!!!
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;) While such an announcement like you made may lead to *lots of flamming*, I think your question is reasonable.
Why do I personally stick to a setting that is *out of print* and only scarcely supported by footnotes in official products, some excerpts in magazines and a small web community.
1. That' quite enough for anyone to who wants to play.
There are such people that look at the CF site and say *Oh! Only 4 adventures available for download... how few* I say *Well, 4 adventures available for download... that's about one year of gaming, if I do it right!*
Only with the recent Dungeon issues, you can launch a nice WoG campaign that lasts for some months, and then, if you liked it, go on with other related stuff.
And as to the footnotes, I think, GVDs recent articles about Races of Destiny (?) showed very well how anyone can flesh out a campaign with only small and vague info from official books.
2. Although most WoG modules are old, that doesn't make them bad; with a good conversion manual, you can perfectly do old campaigns with 3.5e.
*And believe me, SVGames etc. would not do so well if the only customers were buying there for completing their collection... it's just because early 2e products IN GENERAL had a quality that hasn't been achieved by any other edition of D&D! And people know that...*
3. Why I personally like WoG so much: (Trying to keep it short!)
- The setting is quite stable, without to much fantastic cataclysms and so is very credible (for a fantasy world).
- The setting does not depend on NOVELS (at least, not mainly.).
- The world is very well designed - you find a niche for ervery gusto.
- The adventures for Greyhawk were the best I ever played or DMed.
;)
Rafael
BTW, please take no offense, but you are the priest of ...WHOM?!
1) Actually it is the default world for the core rule books.
2) Dungeon magazine has just recently finished doing a massive map for Greyhawk distributed over 4 issues.
One must admit, compared to other campaign settings, Greyhawk is pretty sparse when it comes down to it (at least in the LGG)
But being a setting that traces its roots back through the annals of D&D history, Grehawk has made an impression upon many...
But is it a setting purely for those old timers, who perhaps live in a world of nostalgic rememberings, and out of date loyalties?
Where one must labour endlessly, and scour the world for past published works to fill in the gaps...
Is it a dead world then, clinging on to a dwindling life?
Or is it perhaps something else...
"What is Greyhawk?"
Is Poker dead? The basic game is complete in itself though there are myriad versions, but Poker is still alive.
The problem you are having is understanding the campaign. Twenty-five years ago the folio came out and nothing more was really needed. Gygax intended this to be a campaign that DM's could develop on their own. There were plans for adventures and a massive City of Greyhawk supplement, but there were no plans to detail the life out Greyhawk or mar the campaign with updates and changes that no DM could anticipate.
Greyhawk is what you want it to be. Because of that its possibilities are limited only by imagination. It is a campaign without training wheels, so it will not appeal the neophyte or those without time or heart to put into a campaign. But it rewards the experienced or creative DM tenfold, a hundredfold, a thousandfold, because after scouring the net, the world, and their own imaginations to fill this campaign they make it theirs, they own this world and yet they can share the campaign with a thousand other DMs who have also made it theirs. And their players reap the benefit because Greyhawk belongs to their DM and is known inside and out, and yet these players can share their experience with tens of thousands of players who have adventured in Greyhawk.
The World of Greyhawk is a place of legend and if it has been discovered only by a few then so much the better. Let those who craft this world be dreamers and heroes all who walk its halls.
Is Poker dead? The basic game is complete in itself though there are myriad versions, but Poker is still alive.
The problem you are having is understanding the campaign. Twenty-five years ago the folio came out and nothing more was really needed. Gygax intended this to be a campaign that DM's could develop on their own. There were plans for adventures and a massive City of Greyhawk supplement, but there were no plans to detail the life out Greyhawk or mar the campaign with updates and changes that no DM could anticipate.
Greyhawk is what you want it to be. Because of that its possibilities are limited only by imagination. It is a campaign without training wheels, so it will not appeal the neophyte or those without time or heart to put into a campaign. But it rewards the experienced or creative DM tenfold, a hundredfold, a thousandfold, because after scouring the net, the world, and their own imaginations to fill this campaign they make it theirs, they own this world and yet they can share the campaign with a thousand other DMs who have also made it theirs. And their players reap the benefit because Greyhawk belongs to their DM and is known inside and out, and yet these players can share their experience with tens of thousands of players who have adventured in Greyhawk.
The World of Greyhawk is a place of legend and if it has been discovered only by a few then so much the better. Let those who craft this world be dreamers and heroes all who walk its halls.
That just made me extremely nostalgic for many old Greyhawk campaigns I've run or played in.
In regard to the original post and on the topic of my nostalgia...
is Greyhawk only for "old timers" with nostalgic rememberings? Nah. I'm no old timer. I'm a young college student.
Are my loyalties out of date?
Why would they be?
If you enjoy a campaign and become loyal to it or attached to it, how can that possibly ever go out of date? As for the setting being considered out of date, I find there is far too much new vibrance and energy in recent Greyhawk material to even entertain the thought of it being out of date. As we breath life into it, how can it die as long as we do so?
As for laboring endlessly to find material on Greyhawk, downloading pdfs and browsing the internet hardly constitutes endless labor in my opinion.
Heck it takes less effort to do that than it would to drive down to my local gaming store and buy a new set of dice.
Greyhawk is Greyhawk, and it is whatever you make it grow to be through your own creativity and imagination. Long live Greyhawk, with or without new products.
I'm kinda playing devil's advocate here; I do enjoy Greyhawk for its openess and fantastic stories/ plots.
BTW: Blipdoolpoolp is the goddess of Kuo Toans...
Long live slimy eclesiastics!
Heck, when we played Dragonlance, all we used was the races, the big map and a few monsters. Everything else we made up on the spot or used what we remembered from the novels.
I've always bypassed "settings" that feel the urge to explain, map and chart every single inch of a given nation or continent.
BTW: Blipdoolpoolp is the goddess of Kuo Toans...
Long live slimy eclesiastics!
Ever visited Blackmoor's Temple of the Frog? - Surely you'd be the boss out there! :D
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However, new material or not, Greyhawk is MY game... whatever the others do...
Ever visited Blackmoor's Temple of the Frog? - Surely you'd be the boss out there! :D
That would be Wastri temple (sigh)....mammals.
That would be Wastri temple (sigh)....mammals.
You beat me to it
I know GH is the default setting for 3.5E, so therefore everything that is 3.5E cannon per WotC should be found somewhere in GH. That being said, I would like to see the WORLD of Greyhawk. I'm sure most people know that the LG and WoG campaigns take place on the continent of Oerik (sp?) on Oerth. So what about the rest of the world? Eberron and FR have maps of the whole planet AFAIK.
I would also like to see something more comprehensive than the LGG. Maybe a web enhancement for each region. I appreciate the new big map, but for detail they need to get down and dirty. My map of the Bright Lands from Rary the Traitor has a lot more detail. A detailed map of each region would be nice, but WotC will only do it if we support it, so we better support it!
On another note, I love digging for obscure WoG info. I add to my collection all the time. I scan Barnes and Nobles, Amazon, & SVG games websites for new old modules to add to my files. I look online and ask the OGs about what it was like in the day and I've got a pretty good base knowledge, plus the LG mods include history for the uninitiated GMs to flesh out some of the backstories.
So the best way to keep it all alive IMHO is to keep playing and snatch up any GH specific stuff out there to let WotC know there is a hunger for the WoG.
So the best way to keep it all alive IMHO is to keep playing and snatch up any GH specific stuff out there to let WotC know there is a hunger for the WoG.
We all have to keep in mind that *Greyhawk is still supposed to run*, according to WotC, althoug *frozen* at the moment.
So, the chance of getting it relaunched some day is much higher than seeing, let's say Birthright or Dark Sun published again...
The recent sales of Dungeon have proven that there is still interest in Greyhawk; that WotC sold the Greyhawk license for a videogame (ToEE) long after the line had been *dropped* may also be a good sign.
Let's look what the future will bring...
R
I appreciate the new big map, but for detail they need to get down and dirty. My map of the Bright Lands from Rary the Traitor has a lot more detail. A detailed map of each region would be nice, but WotC will only do it if we support it, so we better support it!
You should check out Eric Anondson's maps on Canonfire! Those are hands down the coolest maps I've ever seen in my life. He hasn't done the whole continent but what he has done would knock your players sock's off.
I wouldn't say that Greyhawk is dead or doesn't exist. I say this because:
1) Actually it is the default world for the core rule books.
LOL
2) Dungeon magazine has just recently finished doing a massive map for Greyhawk distributed over 4 issues.
Does this mean we can finally agree that talking about DUNGEON Magazine without referencing the word "Greyhawk" in specific, is on topic in the Greyhawk forum, and our threads will not be locked from such an act?
I know this has happened before but I'm sure that was one particular Wizo's opinion and not policy! So lets give WizO _Catoblepas a chance I'm sure he won't let us down!
Anyway you slice it Greyhawk lives on in many different formats such as Living Greyhawk, Dungeon magazine, and sites like Canonfire in which the fans support their favorite setting with their own written works. Is it a WOtc published book, no but all in all it still works for me and many other greyhawk fans. Keep supporting it who knows what may transpire.
Sure there isn't a overabundance of pre-packaged, fast food type (all calorie, no content), freeze dried novelized material. But thats one of the things I like best about the Greyhawk setting (vs. the OTHER setting). It allows me the freedom to run my campaign without someone saying "It's not like that in the book".
Greyhawk is much more "gritty" and more medieval than the other WotC settings.
I like GreyHawk because it is generic. I can do what I want with it, and its not detailed up the wazzoo.
I'm taking a break from DMing right now but when I come back it will be with GH.
That being said, I would like to see the WORLD of Greyhawk. I'm sure most people know that the LG and WoG campaigns take place on the continent of Oerik (sp?) on Oerth. So what about the rest of the world? Eberron and FR have maps of the whole planet AFAIK.
No, no, no, no, NO! Leave that to me! There's more than enough established areas in eastern Oerik for a century of suppliments. The rest of the world should be the individual GM's playground ONLY!
GH is not about having "official" descriptions of everything and "official" answers to every mystery. Attempts to make GH like FR or Eberron can only end in crappiness.
GH is not about having "official" descriptions of everything and "official" answers to every mystery. Attempts to make GH like FR or Eberron can only end in crappiness.
I think that statement only really applies to FR. There aren't plans(at the moment) to detail in any sort of depth the other continents outside of Khorvaire in Eberron. This is for the express purpose of allowing the DM to personalize the setting however the DM wants.
This is what I like about both Greyhawk and Eberron.
I think that statement only really applies to FR. There aren't plans(at the moment) to detail in any sort of depth the other continents outside of Khorvaire in Eberron. This is for the express purpose of allowing the DM to personalize the setting however the DM wants.
This is what I like about both Greyhawk and Eberron.
I disagree. The Eberron core book names the other continents and contains brief descriptions of each. I would not want even that much detail in the GH setting. They should be left as total blank slates.
I disagree. The Eberron core book names the other continents and contains brief descriptions of each. I would not want even that much detail in the GH setting. They should be left as total blank slates.
Fair enough. A mere name and some ideas to build on(or change entirely) doesn't really bother me. But to each their own.
But to the FR and Eberron coupling/comparison; FR is so horridly inundated with detail it makes me(and probably you ;) ) sick.
Eberron isn't anywhere close to that level of detail, nor is it heading in that direction supposedly. I certainly hope not.
** Draws his Sword +1, Flame Tongue, +2 against regenerating creatures**
(...dating himself in the process.)
How dare you speak those words, Troll!!
:fight!: :fight!: :fight!:
Seriously, GH isn't dead, although WotC does seem to be ignoring it a bit these days....
But that's not all bad. Sometimes the scariest words are: "We're from (company/bureaucracy/government), and we're here to help you."
I like a campaign setting without too much detail. Where the players are constantly questioning their assumptions, instead of going home and leafing through the sourcebooks.
I like a campaign setting in which the DM is forced to do additional work on the setting to get it working right. He has to earn ownership of his world.
I like a setting which is reminiscent of Medieval Europe. Frankly, that's where my fantasy world lies. I don't care how "euro-centric" it is. I don't care how sexist it is. I don't care how politically incorrect it is. If you want to whine about such silliness, go do it in your own fantasy world. But leave mine alone, dammit!
I like a campaign setting where Death awaits with nasty, sharp, pointy teeth... Whoops, wrong thread... OK, er, nevermind this point. *ahem*
I like a campaign setting that is gritty and realistic. Where slavery is not uncommon, where demons and evil demi-gods sit upon the thrones of distant (and not-so-distant) lands, and where there are few right answers.
I also like a campaign setting where Humanity (including the good races) can fight to gain itself some breathing-space in the tumult. Where the near-endless succession of calamities and disasters can occasionally be fought back and overcome.
I like a campaign setting that has room at all levels for player-characters. Where a fifth-level party can save an entire country, yet be shown the door by the government.
Frankly, I like Greyhawk.
If it's not getting "official" support, then that's fine with me; I'll do it myself, thank you very much.
Telas
Don't you remember? Waldorf wiped it all out for the XP!
/showing age
/obscure?
One can only hope...
Such short memories!
Don't you remember? Waldorf wiped it all out for the XP!
/showing age
/obscure?
Oh, waaaaaaaaaaay back when Dragon was teh funney at times.
Some of those April Editions were awesomeness on toast.
Dungeon magazine has just recently finished doing a massive map for Greyhawk distributed over 4 issues.
I would like to buy the map, but I can't subscribe to Dungeon (nor Dragon) in Europe. Any suggestions?
Thank you.