Cleansing Wars origin

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Feb 27, 2005 15:27:19
its already known why Rajaat did what he did. and what he did to do it. and how he did it. and even where and when he did it. so that answers my question. no wait!

the Why part. I do not believe the Cleansing Wars were any part of the actual plan of Rajaat. consider thee he targetted the intelligent races, as seen by the champion's epithets. the one thing all these races share (yeah even the tari...) is aptitude & potential for magic.

my thinking is the Cleansing Wars were simply a way of levelling the field of resistance later, by using the most amibitious & damn good looking race to pull it off. he simply playing one side against all others, and giving them the edge of quick & dirty Magic.

im thinking there was also a revenge component to his hatred of beauty & ordely life, thus his jihad against the Preservers, who were only there to gain trust among the races to begin with.

i'll go even further on a limb....rajaat intentionally desired the sun to change to its dark hue. he encouraged the defiler power and hated preserver because he wanted the environment to become so harsh and desolate life would perish, doing the vast majority of his work. intelligent races alone had the potential to adapt or counter this effect, as well as being the only ones with any chance of resisting his long term goals. so the death of the world is Rajaat's design, and afterwards he could go about and enact whatever mad scheme he was planning (which evidence suggests involved the Planes, to some degree).

what do you think?
#2

zombiegleemax

Mar 01, 2005 13:46:13
I worked up quite a bit on the origin of the CW for my now indefinitely-shelved Blue Shrine project.

Suffice to say, it involves the Shrine, and the pixies started it...
#3

zombiegleemax

Mar 01, 2005 22:59:18
Blue Shrine? no clue here. Unforutnately i got into Athas years after the whole show had shut down, so my interest has been always historical, though its heartening to see so much energy poured into keeping the whole shebang going. i cannot giev much in the ways of 3.5 rules or mods, since i remain die hard 2e...so my end is concerned with the story of the world, creator's vision, and understanding more clearly the events and people of athas, which i think lends to a clearer image and thus a better translation across editions. and we've seen what happens when there is little understanding...

for people running green age it might benefit to have a clearer image of rajaat and his mad vision, and exactly how he was going to go about it. though im still a fan of pre- pentad...long live tec!
#4

balican_gigolo

Mar 23, 2005 22:43:01
Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever used the one-time-mentioned champion Pennaryn in their games?
#5

Pennarin

Mar 24, 2005 1:23:17
In my brain he's Pennarin, Doppelganger Eradicator.
A champion who completed his task like Sacha and Wyan did.
Was killed during the attack on Rajaat.

I have this beautiful pic of him/her (being a master of illusion kinda blurs the identity) with this incredible chameleon skin.
I'll post the link to the pic next time the subject comes up; right now the site where I found the pic, Jason Felix's website (artist), does not have it.
#6

balican_gigolo

Mar 24, 2005 21:19:10
Nice, I'd like to see that.
#7

Pennarin

Mar 25, 2005 4:32:34
You could always go to www.multiply.com and look for my personal website, either under Alexis Gervais or Pennarin; that web tool is all new to me so I can't tell how to get to my page exactly.

Look into the Album: it contains a section called Dark Sun. The pic is there.
#8

objulen

Mar 25, 2005 5:38:59
The official reason is that Rajaat wanted to return the world to the Blue Age; since only halflings existed at the time (and the ancient proto-kreen, which Rajaat considered little more than animals), that meant that Rajaat would have to kill off every race except halflings.

I am less certain on this, but I do believe that he intended to destroy humanity after all other races perished, and that Hammanu of Urik was the tool he intended to fulfill this purpose, at least until Manu of Dechi (sic?) betrayed Rajaat, leading to the Champions imprisoning the First Wizard.
#9

zombiegleemax

Mar 25, 2005 10:22:52
ahh try reading that post a bit clearer...im well aware of Rajaat's goals and intentions. I'm speculating the cleansing wars were an ulterior or tandem goal to his overall rebirth of the blue age,since it does not seem to fulfill any requisite of a transformation.
#10

beyowulf

Mar 25, 2005 12:27:48
ahh try reading that post a bit clearer...im well aware of Rajaat's goals and intentions. I'm speculating the cleansing wars were an ulterior or tandem goal to his overall rebirth of the blue age,since it does not seem to fulfill any requisite of a transformation.

Hmm..maybe he intended to sacrifice his Champions latter on in some sort of epic world-changing transformation spell.?
#11

objulen

Mar 25, 2005 14:15:31
ahh try reading that post a bit clearer...im well aware of Rajaat's goals and intentions. I'm speculating the cleansing wars were an ulterior or tandem goal to his overall rebirth of the blue age,since it does not seem to fulfill any requisite of a transformation.

I did read the post; the speculation is nice, and Rajaat very well could have hidden motives, but the reason listed is the official reason. Infering anything other than this is inventing story -- not that there is anything wrong with that in the least -- but simply isn't supported by cannon very much, if at all. A tandem goal would be something like ascending to dragon form, etc, and everything official has nothing like that.

However, ascendant forms could have been Rajaat's goal, or personal power. Perhaps he saw himself as the new ruler of the restored Blue Age, and wished dominion. Perhaps he wanted to gain a beautiful form (though, given his power, one would think he could do this already). Maybe Rajaat wishes to become a true god, and sees his magic as a way to do this.

One could also use plot elements that Rajaat is being controlled by other beings even more powerful than him -- the lords of the Black, for instance, ancient abominations.
#12

zombiegleemax

Mar 26, 2005 3:10:23
haha what does killing all life have to do with blue age reversion is my question.

if you want the "official" look no further than the truth...that TSR forced the traditional races on the setting and the developers approached it with a unique twist.

and i mean, this whole board IS invention, conjecture and ideas thats why i made the post. its the good answer ive come to, having read well...all the official material on the subject and the result of feedback on posts concerning rajaat (most of them redundant ones started by me :D )

and drawing simple conclusions is not a breach of canon, heck it might even support it!
#13

Pennarin

Mar 26, 2005 11:10:32
Objulen: Cleansing the world of the "inferior" races is what Rajaat does, but its not his goal; that last part is, as Raksasha said, to clear the way for the return to the Blue Age and the halflings.

That part is not speculation but the actual motivation of Rajaat as described in the Prism Pentad series of novels. The Champions, the Cleansing Wars, and defiling, are all tools to facilitate the return to the Blue Age.
#14

Pennarin

Mar 26, 2005 23:29:43
Balican Gigolo: Here is the pic in question: http://pennarin.multiply.com/photos/photo/1/1.jpg
#15

objulen

Mar 27, 2005 3:54:28
Objulen: Cleansing the world of the "inferior" races is what Rajaat does, but its not his goal; that last part is, as Raksasha said, to clear the way for the return to the Blue Age and the halflings.

That part is not speculation but the actual motivation of Rajaat as described in the Prism Pentad series of novels. The Champions, the Cleansing Wars, and defiling, are all tools to facilitate the return to the Blue Age.

And the reason that Rajaat wanted the "cleans" the world of "inferior" races was, at least in part, because there were no other races besides halflings during the Blue Age. Thus, to truely restore the Athas to the Blue Age, there must be nothing but halflings (and thri-kreen).
#16

zombiegleemax

Mar 27, 2005 18:40:25
look its OBvious the races have to be removed for a "return" to the blue age...but it doesn't click as to a specific purpose. i dunno maybe he needed the blood of a hojillion hit dice creatures spilt in his name, maybe he had the spell to return it (and i've speculated it was a planar thing, hence his hydrated form in his short lived return) ala opening a really big portal to the plane of water (everflowing bottles :D), or maybe he needed to really _kill_ the world to enact a resurrection (ala defile all, kill all life, and corrupt the sun to not support any life...)

WHATEVER his ultimate intentions and goals may be, I was simply postulating the cleansing itself may have not been >directly< 100% TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY tied to the final end game world-return, whatever it was in his crazed mind.

maybe he just didnt want anything that could interrupt his plans once he enacted them, or didnt want any races hanging around when he commensed his return (bar halflings ya know). and maybe he was just really cheesed off that he couldnt be part of the world, being a bit on the low-charisma side :P

anyway thats all.
#17

objulen

Mar 27, 2005 22:48:56
look its OBvious the races have to be removed for a "return" to the blue age...but it doesn't click as to a specific purpose. i dunno maybe he needed the blood of a hojillion hit dice creatures spilt in his name, maybe he had the spell to return it (and i've speculated it was a planar thing, hence his hydrated form in his short lived return) ala opening a really big portal to the plane of water (everflowing bottles ), or maybe he needed to really _kill_ the world to enact a resurrection (ala defile all, kill all life, and corrupt the sun to not support any life...)

WHATEVER his ultimate intentions and goals may be, I was simply postulating the cleansing itself may have not been >directly< 100% TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY tied to the final end game world-return, whatever it was in his crazed mind.

maybe he just didnt want anything that could interrupt his plans once he enacted them, or didnt want any races hanging around when he commensed his return (bar halflings ya know). and maybe he was just really cheesed off that he couldnt be part of the world, being a bit on the low-charisma side

anyway thats all.

And, as I stated above, it is quite possible that there were ulterior motives involved. Nothing is listed in canon, but if you want to add it to your game, more power to you. Power, hatred, loathing, etc. -- Raajat was certain a monster of the first order, with a deep intellect and far reaching plans. Perhaps he was seaking to bind an Abomination (epic level creature from the epic level handbook; could exist in the black) to his will, for example, or to gain a beatuiful form. However, the official reason behind the Cleansing Wars was "simply" to erradicate all races descendant from halflings.
#18

zombiegleemax

Mar 29, 2005 6:18:54
ya you'd think so...with the whole racial annihilation there...

but I'm satisfied :D