What do most people do, in each case?
Hmm, I need to re-read my Gaz3 - I can't remember the full list of crafts
Hmm, I need to re-read my Gaz3 - I can't remember the full list of crafts
Elementalist, Dracologist, Illusionist, Necromancer, Cryptomancer, Witch, Alchemist.
Can't help more than that. Sorry.
How do people handle the Seven Secret Crafts of Glantri in 3E or 3.5? I think that in some cases there exists prestige classes that do the job well, for example the "Elemental Savant" seems tailor-made for the Elementalists. This does, however mean that the class is not available anywhere else...
What do most people do, in each case?
Hmm, I need to re-read my Gaz3 - I can't remember the full list of crafts
I haven't introduced the Crafts IMC yet, but when I do, I plan to use the system more or less as it is in the Gaz. IMO, it should not be a prestige class. It was originally meant as something special for Glantrian wizards, something to set them apart from other wizards. Since the system in itself is balanced by xp and gp cost, I don't see why it should be made into a PrC.
That's just my
worth.:-) Jesper
The camaign ended at 20th level, which means people did have access to 4th circle abilities. For PCs I had a Dracologist (Red), a Dream Master, and an Elementalist (Fire). Of all of these, the Dracologist had the most balance problems- for example, at his level he had access to a full power red dragon breath weapon once per day, which was something like 16d8 damage. Far more powerful than any of the other crafts had access to. Not to mention all the other abilities they got; the craft has the most abilities of any of them, and (if you're using the 2e box rules), no stat weakness at all. This never made any sense to me. The others with the secret crafts didn't have as many power problems; the elementalist could've been unbalancing with the summoning ability, but the player didn't use it all that often.
I've thought about going the prestige class route as well, and I think someone has done some coversions for that over on the Vaults. I'd still like to keep it as done in the Gaz, since as Jesper says it's supposed to be something special. But I do think the abilities as they are written aren't balanced for 3.5. If you are going to try to adapt the original system, here's some things to consider:
-xp costs are quite different than they were in OD&D, where people would end up with millions of xp. Now they end up with a couple hundred thousand, and the costs will have to be dropped to reflect that- otherwise a 5th-level character going for 1st circle (5,000 xp) would probably loose a level from the expenditure, which clearly wasn't the intention in the original rules.
-Conversely, don't set the xp costs too cheap. Originally, I think I just came up with a ratio to convert the old costs to the new costs based on the difference of the xps at the level in question between the two systems. In hindsight, the costs seem to have been low for what the PCs had access to.
-If you're fairly well versed with D20, or have access to books such as Unearthed Arcana or Savage Species, you'd probably be best treating these as spell-like abilities, finding whatever the closest 3e approximation is, and charging xp per power based on what it would normally cost a 3e PC to get it as a template, ritual, or whatever. For instance, the above-mentioned dragon breath ability should me more in line with a dragon disciple's ability, not a full Great Wyrm red dragon, because the difference in dragon power is so great between the two editions (remember that in OD&D, dragons did breath damage based on the amount of hp they had, and a mage has pretty low hp).
Those are the main things I can think of. It would probably be simplest to do the prestige class conversion, like you suggested. If you want to keep the flavor of the original abilities, there will be a lot of powers to convert over and get balanced costs for, and that'll require some books and number crunching.
It might be a good group project for these message boards, if people can agree on the approach to take...
And if one of your players ask you if he can multiclass in one of those PrC, simply answer it's not available in your version of the setting. Or, at least, not freely available. If your player is smart, he'll take the hint and start investigating rumors of people able to use what he knows are abilities of the PrC he is drooling after.
I haven't introduced the Crafts IMC yet, but when I do, I plan to use the system more or less as it is in the Gaz. IMO, it should not be a prestige class. It was originally meant as something special for Glantrian wizards, something to set them apart from other wizards. Since the system in itself is balanced by xp and gp cost, I don't see why it should be made into a PrC.
I don't get it - prestige classes are something special for limited groups, with an XP cost. They're supposed to be for secret guilds, specific brotherhoods of clerics or fighters, etc. They're not supposed to be just for a generic specialty like "summoner" that could be plugged into any wizard, they're supposed to be for stuff like "member of the Supreme Summoner's Guild of Toramora".
I'm aware that a lot of publications have diluted this (starting with the DMG's sample prestige classes - way to dilute your own guidelines!) but I still much prefer to approach it that way.
So the Seven Secret Crafts are exactly what Prestige Classes are made for! They have an XP cost (exactly equal to the cost to gain a level - I can't recall exactly what they cost in OD&D), and some per-level powers. There's no GP cost by default, but you can always make it a class feature that you have to pay your trainers to take a new level. Someone was worried about the Elemental Savant class being unavailable to other mages - well, yeah, it's not supposed to be available without a specific brotherhood of Elemental Savants training people in their secrets! Who else in the Known World fills this role? If you weren't using it for the Elementalist craft, it shouldn't be available anyway!
Example of background (ie what my DM has allowed in my campaign - we are nowhere near Glantri) My character is the daughter of a Glantrian Fire Elementalist and an Efreeti (the efreet ran away with the wizard) - having been taught at home (until the 3rd time she burnt the house down - but that's another story) she is a fire genasi invoker/fire elementalist. I joined the campaign at 5/2 as it was to replace my dead previous character, and am now 5/5. She has been taught a fair bit of background by her parents, but has no consious memories of Glantri.
My DM was happy with this and the Elementalist prestige classes are now restricted to being one of the 7 secret crafts, not being near Glantri we have not had to decide on the others yet.