Epic translations of Iuz's Boneheart cronies

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

kelanenprinceofswords

Mar 10, 2005 11:49:58
Submitted for the edification of those running a Greyhawk campaign into Epic levels (which, by the way, is hard to do without completely @#$%!ing the setting up), here are a few of Iuz's most powerful agents, updated for epic-level play.

High Priestess Althea, Female Human Clr of Iuz 26: CR 26; Medium humanoid (human); HD 26d8+130; hp 250; Init +7; Spd 30 ft.; AC 32 (+1 Dex, +13 armor, +1 shield, +7 deflection), touch 18, flat-footed 31; Base Atk +18; Grp +24; Atk +30 melee (1d6+15, +6 human dread / +6 unholy power quarterstaff) or +24 melee touch or +21 ranged touch; Full Atk +28/+28/+23/+18 melee (1d6+15, +6 human dread / +6 unholy power quarterstaff) or +24/+19/+14 melee touch or +21/+16/+11 ranged touch; Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SA Rebuke undead 12/day, spells; AL CE; SV Fort +25, Ref +14, Will +33; Str 16 (22), Dex 16, Con 15 (21), Int 12, Wis 29 (37), Cha 19.
Skills: Concentration +40, Knowledge (the planes) +30, Knowledge (religion) +30, Spellcraft +30.
Feats: Combat Casting, Craft Wondrous Item, Empower Spell, Extra Turning, Improved Initiative, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, Scribe Scrolls, Two Weapon Defense, Two Weapon Fighting.
Languages: Abyssal, Common.
Spells: 6/10/9/9/9/9/7/7/7/7; save DC 23 + spell level.
Possessions: +6 human dread / +6 unholy power quarterstaff, +5 heavy fortification full plate, ring of epic protection +7 and freedom of movement, ring of major spell storing (word of recall, poison), belt of giant strength +6, periapt of epic wisdom +8 and true seeing, figurine of wondrous power - goat-headed nalfeshnee (1/week for 3 hours), vestment of health +6, boots of striding and springing, bag of holding IV, carpet of flying (10 ft. x 10 ft.), platinum unholy symbol of Iuz (skull) (250 gp).
Prepared Spells: 0 - detect magic (2), purify food and drink (2), read magic (2) / 1st - command (2), curse water, disguise self (d), divine favor, inflict light wounds (3), magic weapon, sanctuary / 2nd - cure moderate wounds (3), desecrate, hold person (2), inflict moderate wounds (2), invisibility (d) / 3rd - animate dead, bestow curse, cure serious wounds (3), inflict serious wounds (3), nondetection (d) / 4th - air walk, cure critical wounds (3), death ward (4), unholy blight (d) / 5th - break enchantment, greater command (2), false vision (d), flame strike, mass inflict light wounds, scrying (3) / 6th - antilife shell, create undead (d), greater dispel magic (2), harm, heal, mass cure moderate wounds / 7th - blasphemy (d), blasphemy, mass cure serious wounds, mass inflict serious wounds (2), wind walk, word of recall / 8th - create greater undead, discern location (2), earthquake, mass cure critical wounds, mass inflict critical wounds, polymorph any object (d) / 9th - energy drain, etherealness, gate, mass heal (2), storm of vengeance, time stop (d).
Inherent Bonuses: Althea’s Wis score is increased by a +5 inherent bonus, and her Cha score is increased by a +5 inherent bonus, both from multiple miracle spells.

Archmage Null, Human Male Wizard 25: CR 25; Medium humanoid (human); HD 25d4+175 (250 hp); Init +9; Spd 30 ft.; AC 38 (+5 Dex, +14 armor, +7 deflection, +2 luck), touch 24, flat-footed 33; Base Atk +13; Grp +14; Atk +13 melee (touch) or +18 ranged (touch); Full Atk +13/+8 melee touch or +18/+13 ranged touch; Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SA Spells, spell penetration (+6 to CL checks versus spell resistance, Greater Spell Penetration feat and robe of the archmagi); SQ concealment (15 rounds per day, major cloak of displacement), contingency, darkvision 60 ft. (goggles of night), familiar, haste (10 rounds per day, boots of speed), permanent spells, spell resistance 18 (robe of the arch magi), sustained without air (ioun stone - iridescent spindle); AL CE; SV Fort +21, Ref +19, Will +23; Str 12, Dex 14 (20), Con 18 (24), Int 29 (35), Wis 16, Cha 16.
Skills: Concentration +35, Craft (Alchemy) +40, Decipher Script +40, Knowledge (Arcana) +40, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +27, Knowledge (The Planes) +40, Listen +16 (+18 with familiar), Spellcraft +40, Spot +16 (+18 with familiar).
Feats: Alertness (when familiar is within arm’s reach), Combat Casting, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Empower Spell, Forge Ring, Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Initiative, Improved Spell Capacity (10th, 11th and 12th), Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, Scribe Scroll, Spell Penetration.
Languages: Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Elven, Giant
Permanent Spells: Comprehend languages, detect magic, read magic, see invisibility.
Spells: 4/7/7/11/7/6/6/6/6/5/3/3/3; save DC 22 + spell level.
Possessions: Ring of epic protection +7, ring of wizardry III, staff of necromancy (32 charges), staff of power (36 charges), amulet of health +6, bag of holding IV, boots of speed, bracers of epic armor +14, carpet of flying (10 ft. x 10 ft.), crystal ball (with telepathy), gloves of dexterity +6, goggles of night, headband of intellect +6, ioun stone - iridescent spindle, major cloak of displacement, robe of the arch magi (black), spell book, spell components, black sapphire (30,000 gp, focus for soul bind).
Prepared Spells: 0 - arcane mark, light, mage hand, prestidigitation / 1st - alarm, charm person, feather fall, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, shield, true strike / 2nd - detect thoughts, glitterdust, knock (2), locate object, spectral hand, summon swarm / 3rd - dispel magic (2), hold person (2), nondetection, protection from energy (3), slow, tongues, wind wall / 4th - charm monster, confusion, dimensional anchor, greater invisibility, locate creature, polymorph, stoneskin / 5th - break enchantment, cone of cold, dominate person, hold monster, major creation, teleport / 6th - greater dispel magic, globe of invulnerability, quickened gust of wind, legend lore, mass suggestion, true seeing / 7th - empowered cone of cold, quickened fireball, greater teleport, quickened lightning bolt, limited wish, plane shift / 8th - maximized cone of cold, quickened dimension door, discern location, mind blank, Otto’s irresistible dance, polymorph any object / 9th - empowered disintegrate, quickened teleport, Mordenkainen’s disjunction, time stop, wish / 10th - maximized delayed blast fireball, quickened greater dispel magic, quickened disintegrate / 11th - maximized polar ray, quickened greater teleport, quickened force cage / 12th - maximized meteor swarm, empowered maximized disintegrate, heightened soul bind.
Contingency: If Null is rendered helpless (paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, etc.), a teleport sends him to a secret chamber beneath the Howling Hills, where an animated human skeleton administers Keoghtom’s ointment.
Inherent Bonuses: Null’s Int score is increased by a +5 inherent bonus, and his Con score is increased by a +2 inherent bonus, both from multiple wish spells.

Crabro (Hawk Familiar), Tiny Magical Beast: CR - ; HD 1d8 (125 hp); Init +3; Spd 10 ft., fly 60 ft. (average); AC 29 (+2 size, +3 Dex, +14 natural), touch 15, flat-footed 26; Base Atk +10; Grp +0; Atk Talons +13 melee (1d4-2); Full Atk Talons +13 melee (1d4-2); Space/Reach 2 ½ ft./0 ft.; SA Deliver touch spells, greater teleport (spell-like ability, 1/day, CL 25th); SQ Empathic link, grants Alertness to master, improved evasion, low-light vision, scry on familiar, share spells, speak with birds, speak with master, spell resistance 30; AL CE; Saves Fort +6, Ref +9, Will +14; Str 6, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 6.
Skills: Concentration +23, Craft (Alchemy) +25, Decipher Script +25, Knowledge (Arcana) +25, Knowledge (The Planes) +25, Listen +13, Spellcraft +25, Spot +13.
Feats: Familiar Spell (greater teleport), Weapon Finesse.

Kaquizel “the Snake”, Male Drow Wiz (Diviner) 23: CR 24; Medium humanoid (elf); HD 23d4+46; hp 115; Init +8; Spd 30 ft. (fly 60 ft. (good) with wings of flying); AC 30, touch 18, flat-footed 26; Base Atk +11; Grp +11; Atk +11 melee touch or +15 ranged touch; Full Atk +11/+6 melee touch or +15/+10 ranged touch; Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SA Arcane spells (save DC 19 + spell level, 4/7/6/6/6/6/5/4/4/3/1/1), bonus divination spells, spell-like abilities (CL 23th, 1/day - dancing lights, darkness, faerie fire); SQ Darkvision 120 ft., elf traits, familiar, freedom of movement (ring of freedom of movement), light blindness, prohibited school (illusion), +2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities; AL CE; SV Fort +15, Ref +17, Will +22; Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 22 (28 with headband of intellect +6), Wis 16, Cha 13.
Skills: Concentration +28, Craft (alchemy) +35, Decipher Script +35, Knowledge (arcane) +35, Knowledge (the planes) +35, Listen +7, Spellcraft +37, Spot +14.
Feats: Combat Casting, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Empower Spell, Forge Ring, Improved Initiative, Improved Spell Capacity (10th and 11th), Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, Scribe Scroll, Spell Penetration.
Languages: Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Elven, Infernal, Orc, Undercommon.
Possessions: Staff of evocation (CL 18th, 33 charges), wand of lightning bolt (CL 10th, 25 charges), headband of intellect +6, amulet of natural armor +4, robe of eyes, bracers of armor +8, ring of protection +4, ring of freedom of movement, slippers of spider climbing, wings of flying, belt of epic resistance +6, bag of holding IV, crystal ball with true seeing, scroll (CL 18th) - greater teleport, haste and tongues, scroll (CL 18th) - dimensional anchor, slow and power word stun, scroll (CL 18th) - scrying, charm monster and confusion, 3 potions of cure serious wounds (3d8+15, CL 15th), scroll (CL 18th) - fire shield, greater invisibility and animate dead, scroll (CL 18th) - true seeing (3), scroll (CL 18th) - greater heroism (3), 6 pouches containing spell components, pouch containing 25 pp.
Prepared Spells: 0 - detect magic (4) / 1st - protection from alignment, shield, true strike (2), ray of enfeeblement (2), enlarge person, feather fall / 2nd - summon swarm, detect thoughts, locate object, gust of wind, spectral hand, knock (2) / 3rd - nondetection, protection from energy (5), arcane sight / 4th - stoneskin, detect scrying, scrying (2), enervation, polymorph / 5th - quickened true strike, break enchantment, teleport (2), Rary’s telepathic bond, dominate person / 6th - maximized fireball, maximized lightning bolt, greater dispel magic, globe of invulnerability, repulsion, legend lore / 7th - empowered cone of cold, teleport object, greater scrying (2), mass hold person, force cage / 8th - mind blank, discern location (2), mass charm monster, Otto’s irresistible dance / 9th - Mordenkainen’s disjunction, prismatic sphere, foresight, time stop / 10th - quickened greater dispel magic / 11th - quickened ethereal jaunt.
#2

Mortepierre

Mar 10, 2005 12:31:46
Seeing a familiar with so many hit pts always brings a weary grin to my lips. Ah well, no edition is perfect...

That said, while I congratulate you for the hours you had to spend on them, I would like to take this opportunity to point out that high levels and - especially - the epic levels really kill the GH flavor, at least IMHO.

Take Iuz and the Boneheart for instance. Thanks to the 2E rules (not to mention C.S.'s talent), they didn't feel like your 'average' villains. No access to healing spells or divine spells above the 6th lvl. but a score of unique spells that - according to 3.5E - would be hard to duplicate. And given Iuz, as a demi-god 'living' on the Prime, was already as 'epic' as could be, casting his highest level minions as lvl 16-18 NPCs was logical.

Heck! More than logical, it felt 'real'. A demonic demi-god with that kind of henchmen and firepower could accomplish what he had been described as doing.

Once your players reach epic levels and you have to 'drag along' the rest of the setting to provide them with suitable playground, the whole thing starts to come apart at the seams.

Let's take Iuz and his minions again for instance. First of all, I would really like to know what kind of 'threat' they have been fighting in order to reach those high levels. Meteor Swarming back to stone age a village of wood elves in the Vesve with a flick of your wrist doesn't really qualify as challenging. And I don't see them taking a month-long vacation to the Abyss to fight CR20+ critters on a regular basis, not with the amount of treachery they would have to deal with back at home!

Second, where do all those epic items come from? They don't have the feats to manufacture them themselves. I can't imagine Iuz 'wasting' his powers doing it for them. And I would really like to see them try to steal them from their original creators!

Thus, while in theory those NPC are correctly 'built', their very existence boggles the mind once you look a bit past raw numbers.

Note that this wasn't an attack on you or what you posted. Thank you for sharing the material with us (btw, one tip to spare you some work: use E-Tools). It's just that, as another DM whose players will soon reach the epic levels, I spend more and more time wondering if I shouldn't just 'exile' them to foreign planes once they reach those lofty heights. I don't feel like giving a 500k xp boost to all major NPC just to provide players with adversaries to fight & loot. And meeting for the xth time 'yet another' legendary monster that has suddenly awakened from a millenia-long slumber just isn't very appealing.

I know we have had this debate before but the more I think about it, the more it seems that 'epic levels' in GH would translate by 'becoming a politician'. Namely, you either hire yourself to someone bigger than yourself (not many of those around) or you do like Mordenkainen and start your business about running the world the way you think it should be.
#3

kelanenprinceofswords

Mar 10, 2005 12:51:29
In the campaign I have been running for about a year now, at one 6-8 hr session per week, the party has reached epic levels adventuring across Oerth. They began to turn the setting upside down around 20th level: the barbarian raised a horde of Frost Barbarians, had them transported via teleportation circle to the Pomarj, and conquered it, killing Turosh Mak and all of his great orc chiefs . They killed King Grenell and several of the princes of North Kingdom. Finally, they even killed the epic NPCs presented in my original post, and sent Iuz packing to his daddy Graz'zt. The PCs plane shifted to the Abyss, teleported to the fortress of Graz'zt, and soon had the demonprince groveling and kissing their asses. Iuz evaded them, but the point is, they have no business on Oerth.
So, I designed an alternate cosmology (with its own Material plane and other planes), in which evil titans with epic class levels have conquered the Material plane world, enslaving everything else - even great wyrms serve as their knights' steeds, and humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, giants, etc. are either enslaved or fugitives. I had Iuz, Lolth (whom they ****** off by killing her daughter), and Hextor (who was sore about Grenell) send the epic party to this other world, from which they cannot escape. (Plane shift sends them to the equivalent plane in this new cosmology.) They have had to use old-fashioned methods of travel like flying and walking (gasp!) because they've never been anywhere to teleport to! Muhahahahahaha!!!
#4

Elendur

Mar 10, 2005 12:58:56
I missed the earlier discussion, I'd be interested to hear it. Just how many epic level characters should there be in Greyhawk?

My own feeling is they would be exceedingly rare. Perhaps a dozen or less on the entire planet. Once levels approach 30 these characters would tend to become divine in some way(hero-deities or what have you). I can't see 40th level mortals running around, it just seems weird.

So I'd say maybe Iuz's chief crony is epic, but everyone else is in the 18-20 range.

My thinking is based on how I view the end game of my current campaign, where the PCs reach perhaps 25th level, attain hero-deity status and retire(perhaps after defeating Iuz or some other suitably memorable foe).
#5

gadodel

Mar 10, 2005 20:07:02
I've always used the definition of Epic to mean 'heroic, impressive-beyond the ordinary' and to a greater extent-'an event or personality that impacts the world'.

Sure, 'level' may have something to do with it-but the narrative of the story is what can be best used as a description.

With the use of NPC classes, it is easier to determine what really is 'beyond the ordinary'.

To wit:
NPC Classes: default average level 5
PC Classes: default average 10

Anything beyond 10 would be 'beyond ordinary'. '20th' level should resonate all the qualities of 'epic'. Beyond this, should be individuals whom are Proxies or Divine in nature.

If the Boneheart are considered 'Proxies', levels beyond 20th is practical. They should be assigned duties and positions that effect the entire world and not be the BBEG that the player's characters 'run into'.
#6

kelanenprinceofswords

Mar 10, 2005 22:00:55
If there are any epic-level characters in GH, I think they would include the hero-deities, and enigmatic beings rarely seen in the Flanaess these days. My list would include:
The Mage of the Vale
Iggwilv
Heward
Keoghtom
Murlynd
Kelanen
Mordenkainen
Rary
Lord Robilar
The demi-lich Acererak
#7

the_black_one

Mar 10, 2005 23:41:32
Actually I have long been working on an NPC Archive. The address is http://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan/npcz.html

It includes already over 80 NPC's for GH, some are epic. Everything has been researched with canon sources. Some NPC's have been leveled up to epic levels. However, if you do not like the levels you can always alter them to your liking. This archive is but a template for all Greyhawk DM's. Contributions are welcomed, if you have any questions plz address them to [email]fistandantilus69@techie.com[/email].

Hope you enjoy.

Cheerz,

Rick "Duicarthan" Miller aka the Black One.
#8

dmstue

Mar 11, 2005 1:48:54
Wow! What a useful resource, thanks Rick!

Even if you don't like the epic levels, just having the names and a concept of what the NPC's are all about is so useful.

It never ceases to amaze me what fantastic efforts people put into keeping Greyhawk alive and kicking.

Cheers

DMS
#9

Mortepierre

Mar 11, 2005 2:38:59
Wow! Agreed, nice works and a time savior for some of us. Thanks man!

Hmm, one remark though, I always had trouble picturing (the late) Ivid as praying to any god or being patient enough to concentrate through long hours of study. If anything, I would have made him an Ari/Sor rather than Clr/Wiz. Just my two cents though...
#10

pauln6

Mar 11, 2005 5:00:06
I also have reservations about Epic play. How on Oerth do these epic npcs advance in levels, why is it that their stats never seem to go up or down due to ageing, and who makes their powerful magical items? They seem to be bound in up in a 'high magic' campaign ethos which is not reflected in Greyhawk generally, and particularly not in my own campaign.

We've been playing our campaign for 14 years on and off (we're now up to 587CY), and our highest pc is level 13. I made a decision to reduce xp awards to slow advancement because if the pcs advanced too quickly, they'd be too powerful for many of my 'classic' shop-bought modules. I also learned that giving enemy npcs a load of magical items to beef them up was pointless, since we all know where they'll end up! You end up giving future npcs the same items to balance out the fact that the pcs have also obtained such items from previous encounters. Pointless, and it cheapens magic beyond what I want it to mean in my campaign.

Even dividing current xp awards by 4, the pcs seem to be storming ahead way faster than I'd like. I think the new system has made a rod for its own back in this regard. Some large modules (ToEE) have been designed to advance characters from 1st to 14th level just using the xp rules as written.

Mordenkainen is level 24 in my campaign, largely because both he and Tenser were listed as level 20 in 581 CY and Tenser was listed as level 21 in 585CY after a 6-month period of 'death' or however long it was, followed by cloning from an 'earlier' version. I think it's sensible for npcs to advance alongside pcs but any advancement must be based on what they're actually doing with their time. Mordy & Tenser are busy power-broking, as are the Boneheart, and Turrosh Mak is ruling an empire, which must earn them some xp over time. However, the higher they get, the more difficult it becomes to advance. One level between 585CY and 591CY seems to be the norm, although those who actually fight in epic battles seem to advance a little faster (up to 4 levels).

However, others like Kieren Jalucian, who spends his time as a teacher and administrator, have not traditionally advanced in levels. Thus, I'm not sure how logical it is to allow sages like Arkalan of Ket (originally listed as a zero level human) to reach epic levels. There's only so much xp a paper cut can give you. Granted, his brother could have made him some decent magical items and his wealth as a renowned sage could have bought him clerical spells or items, but why should an ageing alcoholic have such high physical stats? Even if he was extremely hale and hearty as a youth (say Con16) he'd be reduced due to his age (-6) and possibly further due to his alcoholism. Similiarly, Viscount Wilfrick dropped dead with Con17 or 18 because everybody seemed to forget that his stats since his original write-up should have gone down.

I think an obsession with npc stats was also evident in the recent Hardby write-up in Dungeon magazine. The Despotrix had 8 constitution - an average score for a woman in her sixties, and yet she's dying. I would have thought that her physical condition would have been better evidenced by a below-average score if she's getting ready to shuffle off. It's as if the writers think that even a minor penalty is the end of the world! Similarly, her granddaughter, who had only 9 constitution in her original write-up in Slavers had her stat raised to 10, despite having gained insufficient levels to justify a stat increase. Do these npcs sit at home fretting about having a stat penalty? Why would Aleeta, a woman born to privilege and wealth, even worry if she got out of breath easily when she has servants to carry out physical tasks for her?

I'm always happy for others to help out in drafting npc stats. I'm gathering as much info from as many sources as I can to store in my own personal gazeteer and this stuff really helps. Further, if anybody needs to be Epic, it's the Boneheart. Inevitably, different DMs will have a different overall flavour, and some will involve Epic PCs with high stats, fully laden with artifacts and relics. That's just not my bag baby.

Personally, I roll all my npc stats and adjust them only slightly based on npc background. There's no reason why a hereditary ruler should have above-average stats of any kind; it's his advisors that have to obtain their positions based on merit. However, in societies like, say, the Tiger Nomads, a ruler with low physical stats or a lack of cunning is likely to die young. QED. Powerful npcs are 'name level' and above (see 1st Ed) and if someone is more powerful than average, I feel the need to justify why. Just chucking 15th level fighters at my PCs for the sake of it feels like cheating.

Still, keep the stats coming! I especially like the take on adding prestige classes to existing npcs. It's a lot easier to tweak someone elses version than it is to start them from scratch.

Cheers!
#11

the_black_one

Mar 11, 2005 9:20:48
I always had trouble picturing (the late) Ivid as praying to any god or being patient enough to concentrate through long hours of study. If anything, I would have made him an Ari/Sor rather than Clr/Wiz. Just my two cents though...

Actually not a bad idea. I just went by his old FtA class and stats. Though I do remember Ivid was a cleric of Hextor but he got kicked out b/c he wasnt that great of a cleric as you stated. =)

Pauln6> You bring up MANY good points. and the further I get into the project the more I see that. When I first started I was doing all the BIG NPC's of GH, now the further in I get and to less powerful NPC's I am starting to add more of the negatives.
As for Arkalan Sammal (he was a 0 level in 1e/2e b/c they hadnt developed non-combatant classes yet either) I wanted to set him as one of the most prestigiuos sages of the Flanaess, since he already holds such esteem, making him 20th lvl also made him an excellent counterpoint to Rary and showed that while his brother took one path he took another road. While retaining the very same Baklunish diligence. You hit the nail on the head though as for levels, I awarded 1-5 levels per NPC based on their level of activity, research, and contacts. I try not to advance them too far above the LGG though, if I advance them at all. I do add in age limits as well, though a few of my early NPC's might have been a little lax on this, the newer ones definitely being to show the wear and tear of aging.
On the topic of magic items, I award what I think they have found, earned or made themselves. Keeping in mind their contacts and their own ambitions and abilities, also the nice part about adding magic items to equal out the party is that other DM's can add/ remove what they want and still see what changes in these versions quite well.
In conculsion, good points and I appreciate the nature of your post, critical w/o being rude, mucho kudos. =)

Glad everyone likes this, I usually get about 10 NPC's done/ week with all the other projects I am working on. More later...

Cheerz,

Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
#12

Mortepierre

Mar 11, 2005 9:36:46
I also have reservations about Epic play. How on Oerth do these epic npcs advance in levels, why is it that their stats never seem to go up or down due to ageing, and who makes their powerful magical items?

Aaaah, glad someone else noticed that. Whenever I build a NPC which is either old or powerful (or both), I always begins with his 'youthful' stats and work my way 'up to the top' while keeping in mind age penalties AND the fact that their total skill pts can't be calculated on the basis of their FINAL Int score (something else everybody seems to be overlooking lately). For epic level characters, that generally turns into a nightmare.
#13

pauln6

Mar 11, 2005 13:19:34
[QUOTE= As for Arkalan Sammal (he was a 0 level in 1e/2e b/c they hadnt developed non-combatant classes yet either) I wanted to set him as one of the most prestigiuos sages of the Flanaess, since he already holds such esteem, making him 20th lvl also made him an excellent counterpoint to Rary and showed that while his brother took one path he took another road. While retaining the very same Baklunish diligence.

In conculsion, good points and I appreciate the nature of your post, critical w/o being rude, mucho kudos. =)
LOL - actually, although I cited him as an example, I don't disagree with Arkalin being 20th level for the very reasons you cite - there's also a 20th level sage in the Istivin Adventure Path in Dungeon. While it is tough to see how they might earn enough xp to get there in game terms, both of them are ancient i.e. 70+, and they are renowned world-wide so something in the range of 14-20 must be appropriate. My beef is more with Arkalin's physical stats being above average despite his age and desk-bound profession. Sure you can think of ways to achieve it whithin the rules, but why do you need to? Even Alhamazad has 8 constitution (I think) and he isn't an alcoholic! Low Str & Con scores would also mitigate the 20d6 HD so that an elderly expert won't have better hp and attack rolls than Greyhawk's captain of the guard! I think

I think part of my problem is that I'm still having difficulty accepting stats above 18 on a good day and low stats have never bothered me. The relatively low stats of most npcs in Slavers were good enough for me! The higher I make my npc stats, the higher my players will want their stats to be, and I'm happy with all thier stats topping out at 20. Turrosh Mak's stats aren't that great at all, it's his orc regalia and pact with the Oerth Dragon that contribute to his success with his armies, not high strength or natural charisma. Similarly, I was happy with Eclavdra's stats from GDQ, or Iuz the Evil. I don't see why they were beefed up so much in the Epic Handbook.

Any way. Kudos to u 2.

P.S. Jumper is an illusionist - probably the only high level illusionist in the whole of Greyhawk. How dare u list him as a mere 'wizard'. Sort it out!
#14

the_black_one

Mar 11, 2005 15:50:59
Jumper is an illusionist - probably the only high level illusionist in the whole of Greyhawk. How dare u list him as a mere 'wizard'.

How I missed that I do not know...good eyes! Note to Self: creating characters at 6am half-awake and w/o caffeine not good. I'll add him to my edit queue thanks for the heads up. I may have also confused him with Null when I was making him up, since I usually have like 3 characters up at a time.

Cheerz,

Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
#15

Elendur

Mar 11, 2005 16:23:11
With the use of NPC classes, it is easier to determine what really is 'beyond the ordinary'.

To wit:
NPC Classes: default average level 5
PC Classes: default average 10

Where did you get these defaults? They are certainly a lot higher than I'm used to. The 3rd edition DMG demographics are going to get you an average of about 2.
#16

gadodel

Mar 11, 2005 17:37:04
Where did you get these defaults? They are certainly a lot higher than I'm used to. The 3rd edition DMG demographics are going to get you an average of about 2.

I wasn't pleased with the DMG's version. I have used the Demographics from D20 Modern as a source.
#17

gadodel

Mar 11, 2005 17:38:42
Actually I have long been working on an NPC Archive. The address is http://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan/npcz.html

Hope you enjoy.

Rick "Duicarthan" Miller aka the Black One.

Nice work.