I have a few thoughts on this for my own campaigns, but first I'd like to hear what other people allow or dont allow in their campaigns that would perhaps normally not be accepted. Or if you consider yourself a "purist Mystaran", lets hear what you mean by that!
Håvard
The Staywell Mystara discussion sparked quite a few interesting discussions on what race/class combinations, classes, monsters (metallic dragons, drow?) people allow/use in their Mystara campaigns.
I have a few thoughts on this for my own campaigns, but first I'd like to hear what other people allow or dont allow in their campaigns that would perhaps normally not be accepted. Or if you consider yourself a "purist Mystaran", lets hear what you mean by that!
I'm not that much of a purist, actually. As said, I do not allow dwarven and hin wizards (and spellcasting bards, etc.)
I do allow some metallic dragons (Bronze and Copper), but consider all very rare, and non-existent in KW. I don't use Mind Flayers or Drow as natives of Mystara -- they may enter the setting as invaders from other Prime Material Planes, but they haven't done so up to now.
I use plenty of Lupins and Rakastas: in my Mystara, Ochalean population is 20-30% Lupins, and Glantri and Heldann also have sizeable Lupin population (5-10%). Central Davania is mostly occupied by Rakasta, as is central Skothar.
As for classes, I rarely have to consider ``odd'' choices -- most players seem to go for standard combos anyway, but I would allow some non-standard characters in specific places (e.g., Moulder Dwarf Artificer or Mechanician, or Halfling ranger). I allow kits (though not all of them, I've got a list of what I consider reasonable here: http://digilander.libero.it/agathokles/mystkits.htm)
All character class variations are allowed. I tend to agree with comments in the Staywell Mystara thread that just because a class wasn't available at the inception of Mystara doesn't mean it should be excluded. Any strange combos are definetly an exception in Mystara though.
Also use the Abyss, I believe pyts has been described in Mystara sources as being a layer of the Abyss so no issues for me there.
No Drow, Use shadow elves which are a fairly close cousin to the Drow anyway...
well, I play it using classic D&D so I allow whats in the books ;)
Do you allow only core books, or also GAZ and Dragon Magazine classes -- in the latter case, you already have:
- Dwarven Clerics
- Hin Masters
- Elven Paladins
- Elven Clerics
- Elven Wizards
- Elven Treekeepers
- Half-Elves (all four human classes)
- Human Bards
- Human Rakes
- Human Druidic Knights
- Human Dervishes
- Human Shamans
- Ethengar class variants (Hakomon, Bratak, Horse Warrior)
- Specialty Priests (from the Hollow World)
- A large number of non-human/demihuman classes (PC series, Orcs of Thar, HW, N'djatwa, etc)
- Dual class characters (Darokin Merchants, non-human shamans and witch doctors)
Recently, however, we begun a little experiment and started a second group of characters played in the same world at the same time, by the same players, just to get a different perspective. The two groups are almost 10 levels apart and it is great for variation.
This new party includes a Thiefling Barbarian (with 4 in charisma!!) who fights with a chain and a Lupin Ranger as well as a Skygnome Rogue/Illusionist, so it is radically different from anything I have ever DM'ed before. But boy are we having a good time!! :D
:-) Jesper
I see personally no reason why to disallow a Monk from Sind or Ochaela
No, neither do I - any more :D About a few months ago I had a long talk with one of my players who'd like to play a monk. I had never allowed the class up to that point because I find it unbalanced - not because it didn't fit in with Mystara (well, not if you use Ochaela and Sind anyway).
So, now he is making a Sindi monk (mystic) but unfortunately we haven't played with those characters since.
I try to avoid halfling and dwarf wizards IMC in Mystara, but other than that most combinations of race and classes are allowed.
:-) Jesper
I had never allowed the class up to that point because I find it unbalanced
You think monks are too strong?
IMHO monks are on the lower area of the power scale and much weaker than clerics and druids.
The two groups I DM for consist of
Group A. (rather diverse bunch about level 10)
Half Black Dragon Rogue/Ranger/Fighter (who's currently bright red thanks to a cursed magic item)
Shadowelf Wizard/Rogue/Anarchist (non-WOTC splat book)
Human Sorceror (with some of the dragon blood feats from Draconomicon)
Human Bard/Virtuoso (with the fire souled template from Dragon)
Group B. (rather more orthodox but only level 2)
Ostlandic Human Barbarian
Glantrian Human Fighter
Glantrian Human Monk (10,000 Fists)
Glantrian Wizard
However I don't use psionics.
There may be a few non-gold metallic dragons around but not enough for a player to play a half-silver etc.
Gary
For those who are interested in reading them, my PHB and Spellbook can be found at.....
http://home.psknet.com/allenr/Dark_Coast.html
--Ray.
One thing I will never allow is Drow. Not only because they dont fit in Mystara, but mainly because I dont like them. And ofcourse because of the Drizzd-mania which has just gotten extremely annoying.
Some unorthodox things I do allow/use:
[list]
[*]Metallic Dragons. I use Mystaros' Blackmoor history which includes their arrival and connection to Daviana. Metallics are still more rare than Chromatics though. In any case, Dragons rarely appear in my campaigns
[*]Half-Elves. Under the assumption that they are not True Half-Elves, which is a separate
Psionics: I havent had time to learn the rules for it yet, but I wouldn't mind including it, especially for the Savage Coast where there already is a presedence for the existance of Psionics
That's one of the odd things -- Psionics is not necessarily non-existent, but the fact that Mujina actively hunt down anyone with Psionic powers combined with the lack of organized psionic schools make Psionicists a not so viable class even in AD&D.
I've one thought a scenario in which radiance-resistant creatures exposed to radiance poisoning could develop psionic wild talents (i.e., Dwarves mining in the SE soul crystal fields) and not be automatically targeted by Mujina (Mujina don't hide well in a Dwarven society, since they're human-sized).
Also Psionicists in the SC must be handled with care, since they'd be more powerful than the usual, since their clairsentient powers would not be hindered by the Haze.
Half-gold-dragon/human Fighter
Dwarf Wizard(Necromancer)/Cleric of Nyx
Half-Orc Fighter/Wizard
Human Warlock
As a rule, I do not disallow anything from the 3.5 Player's Handbook. That means I will allow dwarf or halfling wizards, or half-orcs, or half-elven paladins, or whatever. If the race/class combination goes against 'canon' sources, then I merely stress to the players how unusual such a character is in this campaign. Just because I allowed one player to play a dwarf wizard does not mean that Rockhome suddenly has an abundance of arcane spellcasters in its population - my players will likely never encounter an NPC dwarf wizard in my campaign (except maybe a Modrigswerg). It does mean that I try to work with the players to fit almost any character concept they want to play into my game.
I also own all of the "Complete X" series, and I allow classes and prestige classes from those books on a case-by-case basis. I also allow Diaboli, Lupins (from recent Dragon mag) and Rakastas (homebrew) even though none have chosen to play those races yet.
I consider myself a Mystara "purist", i started rpg's with Mystara in 1992 and haven't played in any other setting to the date.
Until one year after the release of 3rd ed i played only with OD&D mechanics never touching AD&D. But the d20 system conquered me.
So what do i allow in my games? Anything the player's want, within reason...
Several things bothred me and my fellow gamers in the OD&D, mostly the class/race restrictions, they could make some sense in OD&D mechanics but they didn't make any sense realistically to us then, and they do even less now.
So dwarven wizards? sure, with the proper background...just because they are allowed doesn't mean that suddenly dwarven wizards star popping everywhere!!!
One of may players did have a dwarven wizard, but to all intents and purposes played him as a dwarven fighter. He never did any showy magic and passed most off as magic rings e.g. feather fall, invisibilty. It took over a year for the others to find out his secret. The party thief having to pay the guild off, decided to take the dwarf's book of "mining prop construction" manual and several other items, the only witness (character wise) was a very dead thief.
I also released that throughout the Gaz series, that new rules and new charcater options were being opening up, to try and make ODnD a viable alternative to ADnD
p.s.I've even tried 3E as a DM, but combat got too slow trying to remember what combat options monster had, even with a crib sheet, and half the time players also forgot what combat options they had or you had to wait for them to work out the min/max for each option every round
p.s.I've even tried 3E as a DM, but combat got too slow trying to remember what combat options monster had, even with a crib sheet, and half the time players also forgot what combat options they had or you had to wait for them to work out the min/max for each option every round
I run 3E combat more or less like I did with OD&D, and ofcourse no minis. My players probably dont know all their options either, but they pretty much stick to normal attacks. The main trick is not to get too caught up in the AoO mechanics which become much easier when you dont use miniatures. I like to keep my combats quick and easy, though I encourage colorful descriptions of the PC actions, and even give bonuses for good descriptions.
Håvard
One of the main reasons i changed to 3rd was the fact the combat resolved faster than with OD&D... it's interesting that to some people it works the other way around. Once the players and the DM got familiar with the combat system it runs really smoothly and fast, at least in my games.
As for minis i always used them, sort of... before using "battlemaps", combat was always played in a regular "squares" sheet with a drawing of the room and everybody moved in the sheet erasing its previous location.
Combat for my groups proved very confusing without any kind of "battlemat".
Hi!
I consider myself a Mystara "purist", i started rpg's with Mystara in 1992 and haven't played in any other setting to the date.
Until one year after the release of 3rd ed i played only with OD&D mechanics never touching AD&D. But the d20 system conquered me.
So what do i allow in my games? Anything the player's want, within reason...
Several things bothred me and my fellow gamers in the OD&D, mostly the class/race restrictions, they could make some sense in OD&D mechanics but they didn't make any sense realistically to us then, and they do even less now.
So dwarven wizards? sure, with the proper background...just because they are allowed doesn't mean that suddenly dwarven wizards star popping everywhere!!!
This is a lot like me, except I at least tried out every form of D&D that has come out so far. If its allowable in the core rules, I don't have a problem with it. I don't have any of the Complete (Whatever) books, but nobody in the group I'm running right now has them either. They were new to 3.5 E so I helped make the characters.
I figure somewhere there's got to be a Dwarf that's interested in Arcane magic, if only to see why exactly his fellow Dwarves don't like it. And a human and Elf or orc must have "gotten together" at some point. Just because the original rules did not allow it doesn't necesarily mean its bad.
I figure somewhere there's got to be a Dwarf that's interested in Arcane magic, if only to see why exactly his fellow Dwarves don't like it. And a human and Elf or orc must have "gotten together" at some point. Just because the original rules did not allow it doesn't necesarily mean its bad
Just to explain the reason for the controversy over these issues:
1) Dwarven Wizards: There are references in the History of the Dwarves suggesting that Kagyar made the dwarves resistant to magic and thus unable to cast spells. Also Glantrians have done experiments on dwarves of this very reason.
2) Half-elves. Elf-Human mixes exist on Mystara. However, they are not considered True Half-Elves under the OD&D rules but instead use Human or Elf classes. There are legends of True Half-elves mentioned in Gaz5.
3)Half-orcs: HAlf-Orcs exist according to the Darokin Gaz. There were no rules for playing them, but I dont think there is any reason for controversy over this issue.
As mentioned earlier, I am quite liberal on these issues and allow all of these races/class combinations. I made the Dwarf thing a cultural issue like you. For elves, I use standard 3E half elves for the common half elves and have a special, more powerful race for the True Half-elf. Half-orcs are all around, especially in Darokin. I also prefer the 3E gnomes to the top Balista ones, especially in less humoristic campaigns.
Håvard
So dwarven wizards? sure, with the proper background...just because they are allowed doesn't mean that suddenly dwarven wizards star popping everywhere!!!
Like Goldrak and Havard I don't understand the controversy here. In my third edition experience (which is not small, as you might imagine) I don't recall having ever encountered anyone playing a dwarven arcane spellcaster. Sure it's possible, but it's a rarity. Of course, there might be a group out there composed entirely of dwarven arcane spellcasters... but my guess is that's not typical.
Like Goldrak and Havard I don't understand the controversy here. In my third edition experience (which is not small, as you might imagine) I don't recall having ever encountered anyone playing a dwarven arcane spellcaster. Sure it's possible, but it's a rarity. Of course, there might be a group out there composed entirely of dwarven arcane spellcasters... but my guess is that's not typical.
Me!!me!!!
I played a dwarven wizard, tough little "monster" Rurik was... hehehhe
Unfortunetly the campaign ended ...
We did some special earth-related spells for him so he was a bit of a "geomancer" you might say.
I like altering the spell selection of elven or dwarven wizards to reflect that their magic is more ancient and strange than human magic.
I have a question not related to this:
Do any of you allow Thieflings and their counterparts (Aasimar or whatever they are called) in Mystara? If so, how do you explain their lineage if, AFAIK, demons and devils are not an official part of the Mystara cosmology/mythology or whatever you call it??
:-) Jesper
1) Dwarven Wizards: There are references in the History of the Dwarves suggesting that Kagyar made the dwarves resistant to magic and thus unable to cast spells. Also Glantrians have done experiments on dwarves of this very reason.
Gaz3 mentions (on p.2) that "Dwarves are highly prized in Glantri because they are thought to have natural resistances against magic." This supposition about their antimagical nature would seem to be in reference to the high saving throws and (at later levels) taking 1/2 damage automatically on a failed save against spells/spell-like effects. (The Gaz goes on to say that "playing dwarves and even halflings may turn out to be a very unhealthy experience" in Glantri.)
The main reason they seem to be disliked in Glantri, however (according to the Gaz), is the view that they appear to have been the plague-bringers that caused such death in Glantri during the Years of Infamy.
Gaz6 bears this out- p.7 mentions that dwarves "suffered disaster in the Principalities of Glantri; there, when they arrived some two hundred years ago to pursue rumors of a gold rush, they appeared at about the same time as a devastating plague, and fascinating to the sorcerers of Glantri because of their resistance to magic, dwarves there were hunted down, driven out, captured, studied and tortured over a twenty-year period."
The History section expands this a bit further (p.42)- "[Kagyar] also gave them the potential to be very, very resistant to radiation poisoning. In so doing, he accidentally gave them the potential to have a similar resistance to magic...."
However, I find no mention of said resistance to magic in the campaign materials themselves meaning that they cannot use arcane magic. If there is a reference somewhere (possibly in the Hollow World materials? I'll have to check later) then I've missed it.
Now, given that (with the rules set available- OD&D) dwarves could not cast arcane magic- it is a reasonable inference that their resistances to magic would make them unable to cast spells. But that inference is based on the combination of materials put together- ie, the combination of the rules and the campaign material. If the rules system were altered, that would not invalidate the campaign source material, it would simply alter the way one looked at it.
IE, (as I see it), since those using 3E rules can now have dwarven wizards, that does not invalidate the campaign source material that says dwarves have natural resistances to magic. Which is where I think the heart of the for/against argument lay.
(As an aside, I could see some interesting Racial Substitution levels for dwarven wizards where they sacrifice some of their spellcasting abilities for increased magical resistance- better counterspelling or saves or whatnot.)
In any case, there's nothing wrong with choosing not to have dwarven wizards, but it doesn't seem to me that allowing them creates any sort of fundamental change to the campaign setting.
2) Half-elves. Elf-Human mixes exist on Mystara. However, they are not considered True Half-Elves under the OD&D rules but instead use Human or Elf classes. There are legends of True Half-elves mentioned in Gaz5.
I pointed this out in another thread, but I'll repost it here- even the Gaz5 info on Half-elves contradicts itself. There is an NPC listed in the NPC section (Engledoc Dewsap, p. 55), who is described as a full-blooded elf of mixed parentage, but neither of his parents had elf-like traits. By the "rules" given on p.71, this is patently impossible.
p.71 has it that the male offspring of male elves and female humans are male humans, and are sterile, while the only fertile male offspring of humans and elves (from a female elf/male human parentage) are full blooded elves. Therefore, Engledoc's parents could not have been "half-elves"- one or the other must have been a full-blooded elf... otherwise the explanation of half-elves on p.71 is not accurate.
On another note, there are two other "instances" of half-elves in Mystara in campaign sources: a woman named Gen in the Ierendi Palace (p.25 of Gaz4), "one of [her] parents was an elf, and she was gifted with infravision", and the Namahed clan of Vestland (Gaz7) is rumored to have elvish blood in it.
3)Half-orcs: HAlf-Orcs exist according to the Darokin Gaz. There were no rules for playing them, but I dont think there is any reason for controversy over this issue.
There is also the NPC from Gaz10, Angus McClintock, who is the son of Thar and Lady Myra McDuff of Glantri (and thus, a half-orc).
Do any of you allow Thieflings and their counterparts (Aasimar or whatever they are called) in Mystara? If so, how do you explain their lineage if, AFAIK, demons and devils are not an official part of the Mystara cosmology/mythology or whatever you call it??
Demons were a part of the original rules sets, first introduced as Immortals of the Sphere of Entropy in the Gold Box Immortals Set (and in module M1: Into the Maelstrom, which had Alphaks as a "Roaring Demon"- essentially a Pit Fiend).
In WotI, they were changed from actual Immortals to "Exalted" beings, but essentially filled the same roles as they did in the Gold Box set.
Devils never appeared, and the Blood War cosmology (based on the Abyss/Nine Hells planar cosmology) never surfaced, but there is no reason they couldn't also exist in Mystara. Some have theorized (and I'm one of the supporters, though still trying to figure out the specifics of how it would work) that the Demons are to the "Normal" Prime Plane of Mystara as the Devils are to the "Nightmare" Prime Plane- the demons exist to sow chaos in the Normal (and generally lawfully oriented) Prime, while Devils exist to bring Law to the (generally chaotically oriented) Nightmare world of the Diaboli and Malfera. Both are still evil, and agents of Entropy.
Again, their Blood War would probably need to be explained somehow (possibly simply by their ideological differences, as well as their different Planar viewpoints- especially if you use the "dimensions" of the Gold Box set), but they could easily be fit into a Mystara cosmology. Another thing that would need to be explained is their role in the Immortal hierarchy- most sources have demons and devils as essentially immortal in their own right, but not gods, so you'd have to figure that out.
(Which, incidentally, ties in to the Power Levels of Immortals thread. I'd have it that the name "Immortals" is the moniker that gods/exalted beings/etc. have for themselves, while mortals might call them Gods/Demons/Devils/etc. as they please, and cuts right to the heart of the differences between Immortals/Gods, IMO.)
(and in module M1: Into the Maelstrom, which had Alphaks as a "Roaring Demon"- essentially a Pit Fiend).
"Roaring Demon" = Balor, the Pit Fiends are devils.
Screaming Demon = Vrock
Croaking Demon = Hezrou
Howling Demon = Glabrezu
Groaning Demon = Nalfeshnee
Hissing Demon = Marilith
Roaring Demon = Balor
Whispering Demon = Succube
Bye!
"Roaring Demon" = Balor, the Pit Fiends are devils.
Ooops! I always make that mistake.
And how do you handle celestials? There is no source I know of that proves their existance in Mystara, but what is your personal view on that matter?
I suppose I'd probably handle them much the same as demons/devils- exalted beings that serve the other spheres besides Entropy- I haven't given it much thought, but I'd probably break their allegiances down by Sphere- offhand:
Angels- Matter
Eladrins- Energy
Guardinals- Thought
Archons- Time (the Inevitables might be more suitable, though not specifically Celestial beings).
Or, maybe divide them by alignment associations or something. I'll think about this a bit more.
But just because it has the demons from the Monster Manual, doesn't mean it has to have the celestials too, and I think including them would make it feel too much like a copy of the standard cosmology. Despite the fact that the Spheres are so symmetrical, the Mystaran cosmology with it's theoretically infinite number of shifting planes and hordes of Immortals feels a lot less rigid than the Planescape one, which has a single named plane for each alignment and a matching major outsider race for each.
So I wouldn't use Celestials unless I wanted one for a specific plot, in which case I'd just use the celestial stats from the 3E books as an inspiration to make an Exalted servitor which isn't necessarily part of a structured race.
Of course you can always rename the critter and come up with a different origin
I haven't been here in a while, nice to see some new faces.
We will allow most things found in:
3.5E Player's Manual & Core Books
The Complete ____ Series
We are also looking to use bits and pieces from:
The Book of Exalted Deeds
The Book of Vile Darkness
Seafarer's Handbook
Environmental Series (Frostburn, Sandstorm, etc...)
We also check out everything released for updated Mystara monsters, useful equipment and magic items, and the occassional spell or two.
I know for a fact our campaign will get a lot of use out of Heroes of Battle. We have already converted some rules from HR5- Glory of Rome, and are eagerly awaiting the release of Mythic Vistas: Eternal Rome and Fvlminata d20 to speed along our campaign conversion.
Currently, we plan on allowing anything that isn't inherently non-Mystara in our 3.5E revamp.
With the exception of the evironment series and such stuff that you listed, you may want to look at my Warriors and Wizards rules. It's 3.5e with a classic feel. The URL is in the sig. I still have to do an index to the Spellbook though. I guess I should get off my butt and do that tonight.
I did buy Frostburn and hope to use it in Norwold at some point but we have to finish up Against the Master of the Desert Nomads first. :D
--Ray.
However, I don't run a Blackmoor or Star Wars style campaign nor do I have cyborgs running around or spaceships. In more subtle ways, I just describe some places, nPCs and races as technologically more advanced than the players expect. Another thing is the use of creatures and monsters created specifically for, or even during the campaign.
This feature comes in handy since it catches the players off guard for going against expectations on what a D&D game is about.
Also, the players will often ask questions related to supernatural phenomena which most DM's I know would reply "You don't wanna know" or "Don't ask" something like that simply because there is no answer other than "It's magic, duh." I decided to change that annoying no-answer policy.
In other words, any phenomena used in my campaign would occur at least in a pseudoscientific context.
This policy turned out to generate much stranger events than if we used only canon magic (as in "Wearing the ring causes you to turn green.")
An emphasis on Gem Dragons rather than chromatics or metallics allows players to interact with these more unknown types of dragons.
The end result is a campaign with a 'contemporary' feel, as the players would describe.