I'm relatively new to Dark Sun, having only played 1 game back in 1990. I've recently rediscovered Dark Sun via Athas.org, and I'm chomping at the bit to play.
There's only one problem - I don't have any players and I just moved to a hick town with less than 1,000 people. I can say that because I'm from here originally (moved back home, yadda, yadda - it wasn't my choice). Anyway, the entire town has the collective IQ of a moon pie, so role-playing hasn't exactly swept the town. Any suggestions on finding players without looking like a kook?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
By the way, the 3.5 Core Rules and Prestige Classes on Athas.org doesn't mention the Monk, Paladin, or Wilder basic classes, nor does it make use of the War Mind and other psionic prestige classes from the SRD. Do these classes not exist on Athas, having been replaced by others, or can they be used freely? I understand that it's my game and I can do what I want to with it (Sith Wookiees even), but I'm just curious as to why the omissions were made.
;)
By the way, the 3.5 Core Rules and Prestige Classes on Athas.org doesn't mention the Monk, Paladin, or Wilder basic classes, nor does it make use of the War Mind and other psionic prestige classes from the SRD. Do these classes not exist on Athas, having been replaced by others, or can they be used freely? I understand that it's my game and I can do what I want to with it (Sith Wookiees even), but I'm just curious as to why the omissions were made.
There is no reference to any of the PrC's from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. And I do believe there is mention of the Wilder base class now, or will be in the future. The three classes that are absent are the Monk, the Paladin and the Sorcerer. The Monk was removed due to some balance issues involved, however there is a Monk PrC in the Prestige Class document on Athas.org. The Sorcerer doesn't exist in the core, for a number of reasons - first being that it technically clashes with the Psion in the position/placement of that class amongst others. Second is that the Athasian Arcane magic works significantly different than in other worlds. In other worlds, Arcane Magic is still somewhat "natural". In Dark Sun, it is completely unnatural, as it steals the life energy of others to accomplish it's ability. Wizards spend many, many years training to learn how to harness this, but there is no overriding "weave" or other some such energy where this all comes from. And last but not least is Paladins, which are frequently considered as rather misplaced in the whole scheme of Dark Sun. There is no mysical force of goodness (or gods for that matter) where Paladins would have their energy from. And most likely, they would be the most hunted sort of being, if taken directly from the Player's Handbook.
Now, I personally have integrated all three into my own campaigns. I use the Psi-Monk class that Nytcrawler on this forum has devised, and has on his own website, as I find it meshes better than a standard monk in the Athasian world. I have Sorcerers be decendants from the Sorcerer-Kings, and have gained an innate affinity with the power of Arcane magic. And finally, I have Paladins actually be the Paladins of Tyranny (or Paladins of Slaughter, for Daskinor) from the book Unearthed Arcana, but also stripped them of their spellcasting ability as per the Complete Warrior. The only Lawful Good paladins I have, exist in New Kurn, and also have no spellcasting ability.
There is no reference to any of the PrC's from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. And I do believe there is mention of the Wilder base class now, or will be in the future.
Coming from Athas.org, I presume? That'll be cool.
The three classes that are absent are the Monk, the Paladin and the Sorcerer. The Monk was removed due to some balance issues involved, however there is a Monk PrC in the Prestige Class document on Athas.org.
Yeah, I was looking at that, and I actually like it better than the Monk basic class. It seems to be more of a pure martial artist than the standard D&D variant, and can be played as such - with or without the mysticism. Flip, Jon, and all of the others at Athas.org do really good work.
I wouldn't even mind paying for something that good.
The Sorcerer doesn't exist in the core, for a number of reasons - first being that it technically clashes with the Psion in the position/placement of that class amongst others. Second is that the Athasian Arcane magic works significantly different than in other worlds. In other worlds, Arcane Magic is still somewhat "natural". In Dark Sun, it is completely unnatural, as it steals the life energy of others to accomplish it's ability. Wizards spend many, many years training to learn how to harness this, but there is no overriding "weave" or other some such energy where this all comes from.
I'm passingly familiar with the differences in Athasian magic, having read the first two books of the Prism Pentad way back in the day. I guess I was assuming that Preservers and Defilers would each have their own separate classes, based on how each accesses magic.
And last but not least is Paladins, which are frequently considered as rather misplaced in the whole scheme of Dark Sun. There is no mysical force of goodness (or gods for that matter) where Paladins would have their energy from. And most likely, they would be the most hunted sort of being, if taken directly from the Player's Handbook.
Yeah, I can see that. Infinitesimal life expectancy, astronomical mortality rate...
Now, I personally have integrated all three into my own campaigns. I use the Psi-Monk class that Nytcrawler on this forum has devised, and has on his own website, as I find it meshes better than a standard monk in the Athasian world. I have Sorcerers be decendants from the Sorcerer-Kings, and have gained an innate affinity with the power of Arcane magic. And finally, I have Paladins actually be the Paladins of Tyranny (or Paladins of Slaughter, for Daskinor) from the book Unearthed Arcana, but also stripped them of their spellcasting ability as per the Complete Warrior. The only Lawful Good paladins I have, exist in New Kurn, and also have no spellcasting ability.
Cool.
By the way, I want to read up on Dark Sun as much as I can because it's such a cool setting - the best one put out for D&D to date, as far as I'm concerned. I want to start with the Prism Pentad. Are those things even in print anymore? Besides Amazon and eBay, where could I find them.
Anyway, thanks for the quick reply. Talk to you later.
there is mention of the Wilder
There better be: that picture turned out pretty cool, in my humble opinion.
As far as the Pentad goes, nope - it's been out of print for some time. You can still find copies, though, by hunting around on Amazon or, occasionally, Ebay.
Damn giant ninjas...they're nearly as bad as those giant space hamsters and their laser rifles, brrr...makes me shiver.
And don't get me started with those cactus overlords and their freakish dwelf experiments...cursed be their names!
Hey what's wrong with Giant Ninjas??
Well, almost the same thing that's wrong with The Obsidian Oracle.
Ya'll, I could break down and cry.
I was all pumped about Dark Sun, so I went out to the local hobby shop the other day. Surprisingly, they had a bunch of old Dark Sun stuff, some of it still in shrinkwrap.
Well, I found three of The Prism Pentad books, The Verdant Passage, The Amber Enchantress, and The Obsidian Oracle. I was psyched.
Until I got to The Obsidian Oracle. The whole thing went to Stupidville from there. Tribes of giants fighting in an ocean of silt? Normal giants versus beastheads? Not to mention that these "beastheads" cut their own heads off and trade them with animals and their original spirits are trapped in a crystal-covered pit as undead children waiting to suck (literally) the life force out of anyone.
And then all of this trash about "The Gray" and pulling magic from other dimensions? Puh-lease...
I guess I'm all worked up because the first few books were just awesome. The premise is great and it has a certain "feel" to it. The fact that psionics is prevalent, slavery is the norm, and magic is forbidden makes Athas what it is. The original boxed set captured this feel perfectly.
Then they go off on a wild tangent into Walt Goofy World with magical giants, an aspiring sorcerer-king who's basically an overgrown teenager with severe antisocial personality disorder, and a supposed Master of the Way who couldn't find his backside with both hands. Oh, yeah, and Tithian gets trapped in his own magic satchel and has to wait for Agis to come pull him out. Make. It. Stop.
Oh, almost forgot about Sadira in The Amber Enchantress. She goes off like a psychotic Jedi falling to the Dark Side of the Force, then comes out of the Pristine Tower this wonderful paragon of virtue. Huh?
:thumbsdow
It's like the whole Dark Sun universe becomes disjointed almost exactly halfway through the series. The only bright spot is the battle with the dragon at the end of the book. But even that was devastatingly anti-climactic.
I could just weep.
Oh, yeah, and Tithian gets trapped in his own magic satchel and has to wait for Agis to come pull him out. Make. It. Stop.
:heehee
Some great ideas in those books... and some rather odd ones as well, heh heh. I found myself liking the series, despite its lurching plot -probably due to the author's vivid, enthusiastic style.
Oh, and (belated) welcome back to Athas, Jedi
.And don't get me started with those cactus overlords and their freakish dwelf experiments...cursed be their names!
Damn Doomspike and his legion of dwelfs!
Oh, and (belated) welcome back to Athas, Jedi
Thanks, bud. Glad to be here.
:D
Okay, I'm a bit more calm now. Hey, is it just me, or was the Dark Sun line one that came on strong, and was then dropped like a hot potato? I get the distinct feeling that those of us here, as well as the awesome minds from Athas.org are somehow trying to complete the story that is Dark Sun.
Almost like trying to salvage a consistent plot line and chain of events from pieces left by TSR's implosion.
Any thoughts on that?
Thanks, bud. Glad to be here.
:D
Okay, I'm a bit more calm now. Hey, is it just me, or was the Dark Sun line one that came on strong, and was then dropped like a hot potato? I get the distinct feeling that those of us here, as well as the awesome minds from Athas.org are somehow trying to complete the story that is Dark Sun.
Almost like trying to salvage a consistent plot line and chain of events from pieces left by TSR's implosion.
Any thoughts on that?
Well, it's more that TSR kinda was falling apart, than anything. They had to cut their budget, and discarded Dark Sun, their latest setting, as one of the first to go. Very shortly after, it went bankrupt, and got bought out by WotC, which had different plans for D&D.
Could you elaborate on the basic balance issues with the Monk class, Xlore. Is it just the Thri-kreen/Half-Giant Monk issue (cause I can deffinately see the problem there) or is there more to it?
Sorry, didn't mean to skip your question. Anyway, the problem inherent with the Monk class is that it is balanced according to "typical" D&D environments - where magic items are profuse and actually permiates the entire world. Dark Sun generally has significantly fewer magic items than other worlds, and as such, the Monk quickly can become overpowering compared to other classes of the same level. Now, it's true that there are some who play Dark Sun with just as many magic items as you find in a world like Forgotten Realms, Eberron, or Greyhawk, which is fine, but many (most) Dark Sun DM's don't allow for such leeway, in a world where Arcane Magic is problematic, and the world is just not rich with resources.
I'm not saying that the Monk couldn't fit into your Dark Sun - and there are those who use the class as-is in the Player's Handbook (with some adjustments maybe to the flavor text of the class to make it fit). And, it could work all correctly in your setting. But, the class was just considered too risky and wasn't put into the Dark Sun core rules. In a similar light, the Soulknife also could potentially have some inherent imbalances, and should be carefully monitored.
Now, it's true that there are some who play Dark Sun with just as many magic items as you find in a world like Forgotten Realms, Eberron, or Greyhawk, which is fine, but many (most) Dark Sun DM's don't allow for such leeway, in a world where Arcane Magic is problematic, and the world is just not rich with resources.
For a counterpoint, it's a very small change to adapt things to where equipoment continues to have the same general level of availablity as the rest of the D&D universe, and thus non-equipment-dependant classes don't have a huge advantage:
While it is true that Athas is a low Arcane magic world, as far as availablity goes, it is pretty standard with clerical magic, and it is definately a high psionic world, and always has been.
In 3e/3.5, Psionic and Magic items/equipment are created in the same way (unlike in AD&D2, where Psionic items were much more rare and difficult to craft) ... thus, you reduce the occurance of finding a Magic longsword +3, instead, it's a Psionic longsword +3 ... same effect, different reason, and it doesn't skew the balance of the entire D&D system (which is remarkably dependant on equipment at higher levels...)