FEAT: Hin's Denial
Prerequisite: Halfling (Hin) only. Wis 13+
Benefit: The character may stop an arcane spell. Using this feat, the character may spend a standard action to throw himself in the way of a spell, and stop it from causing harm to the intended target. To succeed he must make a saving throw as if he were the intended target of the spell. If the character is indeed the intended target, he saves at +2. If the save is successful, the spell has no effect. This ability may only be used when the character is within the borders of a Halfling Homeland (Five Shires, Leehashire etc). Hin Masters are rumored to be able to use Hin's Denial outside these lands.
FEAT: DIRECTED DENIAL
Prerequisite: Hin's Denial
Benefit: The character may use his Hin's Denial to reflect spells back onto the caster. As Hin's Denial, except if the save is successful, the spell bounces back onto the caster and he must save as if the Hin cast the spell on him! Save is calculated based on the Hin's Cha score. This ability may only be used once per day. This ability may only be used when the character is within the borders of a Halfling Homeland (Five Shires, Leehashire etc). Hin Masters are rumored to be able to use Hin's Denial outside these lands.
R.A.
Have you considered having a prerequisite being *unable* to cast arcane spells? Given the debate on Mystaran hin using arcane magic, it might be worth it to limit these feats to non-arcane-casting hin.
1) The feat could use some extra qualifiers for 3rd edition. For example, what about area-effect spells? Or does the ability only work on spells that have direct targets? And what about spells that offer no saving throws, such as the Power Word spells? Also, why does it only work on arcane magic? So if a wizard/sorcerer casts hold person, he can deny it, but if a cleric casts it, he can't? And of course, there's no level-dependency, which means a 1st level halfling commoner with this feat could conceivably block a 9th level spell from an 18th level wizard...
2) If the feat's application is limited to only within a limited geographical area, this means this feat mostly benefits NPC's, not players. While a player could take them, he would then have a feat that is completely useless anywhere except in the Five Shires. Which means the player would want to stay there as much as possible, and will probably resent missions and adventures that take him outside of it. Or, worse, true powergaming PC's will figure out how to "lure" enemies into the Five Shires, where they'll hire a couple dozen hin to shout "No!" to disrupt spellcasting...
I'd also suggest adding a limit on how many times per day it can be used.
Adamantyr
At an initial reading, they don't appear too bad, but some points to consider:
1) The feat could use some extra qualifiers for 3rd edition. For example, what about area-effect spells? Or does the ability only work on spells that have direct targets? And what about spells that offer no saving throws, such as the Power Word spells? Also, why does it only work on arcane magic? So if a wizard/sorcerer casts hold person, he can deny it, but if a cleric casts it, he can't? And of course, there's no level-dependency, which means a 1st level halfling commoner with this feat could conceivably block a 9th level spell from an 18th level wizard...Adamantyr
Gaz5 is pretty specific in the use of this ability, and if I remember correctly it applies only to arcane magic, not divine. And it also works on any type of spell. As for making it more level dependant- it is based on making a saving throw, which makes the character's level integral to its success. Maybe have the character make a Will save vs DC10 + spell level + 1/2 caster level.
2) If the feat's application is limited to only within a limited geographical area, this means this feat mostly benefits NPC's, not players. While a player could take them, he would then have a feat that is completely useless anywhere except in the Five Shires. Which means the player would want to stay there as much as possible, and will probably resent missions and adventures that take him outside of it. Or, worse, true powergaming PC's will figure out how to "lure" enemies into the Five Shires, where they'll hire a couple dozen hin to shout "No!" to disrupt spellcasting...
I'd also suggest adding a limit on how many times per day it can be used.
Adamantyr
Again, this is specifically detailed in Gaz5- this power does not work outside of the Five Shires (or Halfling homeland) except by high-level Halfling Masters.
In some groups, luring ones enemies into a trap is not only considered a good tactical strategy, but also clever roleplaying and/or problem-solving. It is not necessarily powergaming to use your abilities to win the day. Do your spellcasters not cast spells in battle because it *might* be powergaming to cast a powerful spell?
Denial [Special]
Prerequisites: Halfling, resident in the Five Shires or other traditional Halfling community, +2 Base Will Saving Throw Bonus
Benefit: Once a day, a halfling in the Five Shires can cry out "NO!" and deny the use of magic at close range (25 ft. + 5 ft. /2 levels). The halfling instantly takes 1d4 hit points worth of damage, even if no attack is ultimately launched. (A wand merely being raised, for instance.) The ability draws on the power within the land of the community itself, and can only be used there.
Denial is a full round action. Slaying or wounding of a denying hin in the round the effect is used does not cause the effect to be ruined or wasted, and it has the full effect as normal.
The ability works like spell turning (see page 255 in the Player's Handbook), with the number of spell levels being turned equal to the combination of the halfling's intelligence and wisdom modifiers. Cantrips and orisons can always be turned, so long as they are ranged spells. Magical items may also be thwarted this way. Immortal magic, including artifacts, are assumed to have five additional spell levels for the purposes of denial.
Unlike the spell turning spell, the ability only works on one spell a day, and spells are not necessarily reflected back at the caster. Rather, the spell is deflected in the same manner as grenade-like weapons are, 5 feet per spell level. Spells can be partially denied -- a lightning bolt cast on a hin could have all but one of its damage dice denied, meaning that the hin would suffer that one die of damage, while the rest would be deflected away. Partially denied non-damaging spells have their effects similarly scaled down: A charm spell would last only a fraction of its normal duration, for instance.
I think this version isn't quite powerful enough, and gets complicated with the partial effects, but it might give you some ideas.
Gaz5 is pretty specific in the use of this ability, and if I remember correctly it applies only to arcane magic, not divine...
Again, this is specifically detailed in Gaz5- this power does not work outside of the Five Shires (or Halfling homeland) except by high-level Halfling Masters.
It's GAZ8, GAZ5 is the Elves of Alfheim. :P
In some groups, luring ones enemies into a trap is not only considered a good tactical strategy, but also clever roleplaying and/or problem-solving. It is not necessarily powergaming to use your abilities to win the day. Do your spellcasters not cast spells in battle because it *might* be powergaming to cast a powerful spell?
I'm not denying this, I'm just saying that blocking spells is an EXTREMELY powerful ability, and it should not be taken or offered lightly.
Honestly, I am not enamored of "Denial", because it favors NPC's far too much. Yes, players could take it, but the benefit they can get from it is far too limited. I'd rather see halfling feats and abilities that can be used anywhere, but better reflect the more unique nature of the halflings of the Five Shires.
Adamantyr
First of all, it works only WITHIN the 5 Shires.
Second thing, every hin can deny a spell, no matter how experienced or young he is.
For this reason, I believe it's better to put it as a special Supernatural Power that every hin inside of the Shires gains for free. It is useable once a day IIRC and can have a number of different results based on the Denial roll of the hin (as per old GAZ8 table).
I don't believe it should be presented as a feat because this would limit the number of people who could use it (and I don't think EVERY halfling of the Shires should "burn" a feat to choose that!).
I never intended this to be a conversion of the existing OD&D rules. For that I think DM's comments hit the spot. I am more interested in a reinvention of the Denial concept for the 3e system. I like the idea, but not how it is handled in OD&D.
I've come to the conclusion that the "Works only within the Five Shires" limitation is problematic. This because it means the ability will be incredibly powerful in campaigns set within the Five Shires and almost or totally useless in other campaigns. Instead I think I'll go for giving a circumstance bonus for Deniers within the Five Shires.
My reason for not making it a racial ability available for all Hin is because it would unbalance the race, or make the race LA adjusted, which I don't want. I could make a racial paragon class with Denial, but I honestly prefer racial feats, plus they are easier to make. The problem now is one of balance though.
My reason for avoiding the prereq "unable to cast arcane spells" as a prereq was because I considered having Masters cast arcane spells (though I think druidic is the way to go), and because I want Hin Bards.
Some other good suggestions from Traianus and Adamantyr there aswell about the mechanics issues. I agree that Denial should only work against Arcane spells. Area spells are indeed problematic.
Perhaps the version Traianus posted making it similar to Spell Turning is better.
Håvard
How about eating a full meal's worth of food that's permeated with Blackflame gives you access to the ability for a few days, or for a set number of uses, and all food that's manufactured in the Five Shires counts for this purpose. Tying a Halfling's abilities to his food seems fitting to me.
How about eating a full meal's worth of food that's permeated with Blackflame gives you access to the ability for a few days, or for a set number of uses, and all food that's manufactured in the Five Shires counts for this purpose. Tying a Halfling's abilities to his food seems fitting to me.
I like the idea of food permeated with blackflame giving halflings power!
I'm not sure how well a material component would fit with a feat though. Currently I am considering a "-4 penalty when outside the Five Shires." In effect, this means noone will probably use the ability outside the Five Shires anyway, so it is more or less the same thing as works only within the Five Shires, though more in line with the 3E logic. I think limiting Denial to once per day, though any arcane spell may be affected would balance things out nicely. I dont want to bother with the die roll for number of levels affected either, especially since there is a saving throw involved. I'll also drop the 1d4 points of damage suffered because it seems pointless. In the standard feat, the spell is simply stopped, though in the improved version, it can be bounced back at the caster.
What do you think? Still too powerful?
Håvard
FEAT: HIN'S DENIAL
Prerequisite: Halfling (Hin) only. Wis 13+
Benefit: Once per day, the character may prevent a spell caster from casting an arcane spell that round. This is done by launching himself in front of the caster shouting "No!". This requires a standard action and the effect lasts the entire round. For it to be successful, the character must make a successful Will save against the spell (Determine DC normally). If the save succeeds, the spell fails and no effect occurs, regardless of the type of spell. This ability is less potent outside Halfling Homelands such as the Five Shires and Leehashire however, and outside of the borders of these areas, the will save is made at -4. Hin Masters are rumored to be able to use Hin's Denial outside these lands without any penalty.
FEAT: DIRECTED DENIAL
Prerequisite: Hin's Denial
Benefit: The character may use his Hin's Denial to reflect spells back onto the caster. As Hin's Denial, except if the save is successful, the spell bounces back onto the caster and he must save as if the Hin cast the spell on him! Save is calculated based on the Hin's Cha score (DC 10 + spell level + cha bonus).
NOTE: The Master PrC should receive an ability at 1st level allowing them to use the Denial Feat anywhere without the -4 penalty.
FEAT: DIRECTED DENIAL
Prerequisite: Hin's Denial
Benefit: The character may use his Hin's Denial to reflect spells back onto the caster. As Hin's Denial, except if the save is successful, the spell bounces back onto the caster and he must save as if the Hin cast the spell on him! Save is calculated based on the Hin's Cha score (DC 10 + spell level + cha bonus).
Something to consider is requiring the save to beat the DC by 5 or more in order for the spell to be reflected back at the caster. Just beating the DC by up to 4 only has the same effect as Hin's Denial.
My reason for not making it a racial ability available for all Hin is because it would unbalance the race, or make the race LA adjusted, which I don't want.
I think making it available via a feat to be used outside the Shires is even more unbalancing. It would totally change how people view the "little folk" if they have to fear that their spells might be reflected back upon them. And it would certainly cause even more evil Glantrian wizards to kidnap hin to learn more of this mysterious power and how it can be beaten!!
Various people/races in Mystara have certain benefits at home. E.g. every man, woman and child of the Northern Reaches can claim protection, food, shelter and weapons from his or her fellow clan members. Is that unbalanced? In a NR campaign it can be very important - and explains why exile is such a terrible sentence for a criminal - but outside the NR it hardly matters to anyone. Should such a benefit cost a feat? Or alter the LA for humans from these realms?
IMHO no. It is just a bit of game colour that sometimes might benefit a character. The DM of any game should, IMO, just invent similar small benefits for the other characters in the game - a minor magic item, a usefull contact, a pledge of help from a group of allies etc. - and then boost the NPCs as well, if he feels that power balance is in danger.
Well, that's just my two cents worth :D
:-) Jesper
This is an interesting thread, which I have been reluctant to participate in because I wanted to read up on gaz 8 first and I have been a bit busy. But let me say this: I agree with DM. Make it a racial ability for all halflings living in the Shires as it is a power tied to the land. (i.e. not available in Lehashire or other hin settlements).
Thanks for the input Jesper!
Like I said, I am conciously departing from canon in this one, attempting only to preserve some core of the denial concept instead of the whole thing, simply because I don't think Greenwood did a very good job with this gaz, and salvaging the things I like in my conversion.
Whether other Hin Settlements should be treated equally to the Five Shires depends alot on what you have done with these areas in your own campaign IMO.
I think making it available via a feat to be used outside the Shires is even more unbalancing. It would totally change how people view the "little folk" if they have to fear that their spells might be reflected back upon them. And it would certainly cause even more evil Glantrian wizards to kidnap hin to learn more of this mysterious power and how it can be beaten!!
I don't think you realize how serious the -4 penalty really is. -4 means you will only have a chance of succeeding if you are around 4 levels higher than your opponent. In which case there would be easier ways to dispose of any enemy than Denial. Will saves are also rarely the highest among the classes a Halfling is likely to chose.
But again, this was indeed a concious departure from canon on my part.
Various people/races in Mystara have certain benefits at home. E.g. every man, woman and child of the Northern Reaches can claim protection, food, shelter and weapons from his or her fellow clan members. Is that unbalanced? In a NR campaign it can be very important - and explains why exile is such a terrible sentence for a criminal - but outside the NR it hardly matters to anyone. Should such a benefit cost a feat? Or alter the LA for humans from these realms?
In GURPS there would be a cost for "social benefits" ;)
However, 3E does not usually include such calculations for their races. However, when it comes to magical abilities, they are always taken into consideration when it comes to game balance.
Håvard
It would be a little unbalancing if the campaign is going to be set completely in the Five Shires, but for that it's probably appropriate that most characters will play Halflings, so giving them a free ability doesn't seem out of line.