Crazy Psionics Question? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Sysane May 26, 2005 13:41:09	I tried asking this on the Psionics board but don't seem to be getting any where there so I thought I'd ask here as well. EMPOWER POWER [METAPSIONIC] You can manifest powers to greater effect. Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can empower a power. All variable, numeric effects of an empowered power are increased by one-half. An empowered power deals half again as much damage as normal, cures half again as many hit points, affects half again as many targets, and so forth, as appropriate. Augmented powers can also be empowered (multiply 1-1/2 times the damage total of the augmented power). Saving throws and opposed checks (such as the one you make when you manifest dispel psionics) are not affected, nor are powers without random variables. Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 2. The power’s total cost cannot exceed your manifester level.
#2 gilliard_derosan May 27, 2005 12:36:06	As far as spells go, since they are static, you take the rolled result and 1,5 for the result. As it seems with Psionics, you take the base damage of the power, give it half more damage in dice, and then apply augment on top of that. So you have a 5th level power doing 9d6 and costing 9pp. Empowering adds Half of this, +4d6 (for a total of 13d6 and a total cost of 11pp). Further augmenting it adds 3d6 more and 3pp for a total of 16d6 and 14pp. Average of 56 points. Now, if you augmented first and then empowered, you would have augment 12d6 + 6d6 for a total of 18d6, average 63 points. (same average if you rolled the 12d6 1.5 as well) I suppose you could roll 9d6, multiply if by 1.5, and then add the augmented dice as well, but that just gets too confusing. So it seems the way the designers intended is half dice of base power + augment dice for powers, and total dice result*1.5 for spells.
#3 terminus_vortexa May 27, 2005 20:10:22	I have to disagree. It doesn't jive with the way Empower Spell works on magic. The higher your level, the more powerful the spell, and the whole thing gets multiplied by 1.5. I could be wrong , and if I am, I'll consider it to be my own house rules, but I go by augmenting the power, then multiplying the whole thing by 1.5. Take Crystal Shard, for example. One of my favorite powers. If you pay to Empower it, and it only multiplies the original die of damage, you're paying several PP for effectively 1/2 of a d6 of damage. It just seems kinda like cheating yourself.But if you're say, level 10 psion or so, you manifest the power, pay 10 PP to have it do 10d6 damage, then pay to Empower it, that's PP well spent, indeed, if it adds half of your rolled damage to the total. Psionics augmentation was made to increase flexibility, not price-gouge you on PP.
#4 squidfur- May 27, 2005 21:17:25	(multiply 1-1/2 times the damage total of the augmented power) Your multiplying the "damage total", not the "dice total"(or somesuch). This to me, seems to suggest you'd take what damage has been rolled, multiplying THAT by 1.5.
#5 Sysane May 27, 2005 21:50:16	As I said before, I always thought it was 1.5 of the total damage as well. That is until I saw that example on page 41 of the XPH. Once I saw that, it made me question on how the 1.5 the feat grants should be actually applied.
#6 terminus_vortexa May 27, 2005 23:15:52	I'm making a house rule for my game. That reference on the bottom of XPH page 41 doesn't exist. It is just...... wrong. I'm going to check out the errata, but regardless, I'm ignoring that passage. It's just ........wrong. It renders the Empower concept useless. In fact, I think I'm going to black out that passage in my copy of the XPH!!! :D Where's my sharpie........
#7 terminus_vortexa May 27, 2005 23:19:01	I checked out the Errata. It doesn't correct the issue . Still, it's just so.....wrong. A waste of a feat.
#8 terminus_vortexa May 27, 2005 23:23:16	HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! I KNEW IT! XPH, page 46 - the Empower description states that ALL damage and variable numeric effects of a power, including augmentation, is multiplied by 1.5! I knew it!!!! Everybody , ignore the bottom of page 41 of the XPH! it's a big, blaring error, and WOTC needs to include that in the errata!!!!!!! or I could have just read the whole post that started this thread.....Also, it says multiply the damage total by 1.5, so you have to roll the die, then multiply, because Ds represent a variable, not a sum. Anyway, this round's on me!
#9 gilliard_derosan May 28, 2005 11:39:54	HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! I KNEW IT! XPH, page 46 - the Empower description states that ALL damage and variable numeric effects of a power, including augmentation, is multiplied by 1.5! I knew it!!!! Everybody , ignore the bottom of page 41 of the XPH! it's a big, blaring error, and WOTC needs to include that in the errata!!!!!!! or I could have just read the whole post that started this thread.....Also, it says multiply the damage total by 1.5, so you have to roll the die, then multiply, because Ds represent a variable, not a sum. Anyway, this round's on me! Definitely sounds better this way. cheers!

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Sysane

May 26, 2005 13:41:09

I tried asking this on the Psionics board but don't seem to be getting any where there so I thought I'd ask here as well.

EMPOWER POWER [METAPSIONIC]
You can manifest powers to greater effect.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus.
You can empower a power. All variable, numeric effects of an empowered power are increased by one-half. An empowered power deals half again as much damage as normal, cures half again as many hit points, affects half again as many targets, and so forth, as appropriate. Augmented powers can also be empowered (multiply 1-1/2 times the damage total of the augmented power). Saving throws and opposed checks (such as the one you make when you manifest dispel psionics) are not affected, nor are powers without random variables.
Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 2. The power’s total cost cannot exceed your manifester level.

gilliard_derosan

May 27, 2005 12:36:06

As far as spells go, since they are static, you take the rolled result and *1,5 for the result.

As it seems with Psionics, you take the base damage of the power, give it half more damage in dice, and then apply augment on top of that.

So you have a 5th level power doing 9d6 and costing 9pp. Empowering adds Half of this, +4d6 (for a total of 13d6 and a total cost of 11pp). Further augmenting it adds 3d6 more and 3pp for a total of 16d6 and 14pp. Average of 56 points. Now, if you augmented first and then empowered, you would have augment 12d6 + 6d6 for a total of 18d6, average 63 points. (same average if you rolled the 12d6 * 1.5 as well)

I suppose you could roll 9d6, multiply if by 1.5, and then add the augmented dice as well, but that just gets too confusing.

So it seems the way the designers intended is half dice of base power + augment dice for powers, and total dice result*1.5 for spells.

terminus_vortexa

May 27, 2005 20:10:22

I have to disagree. It doesn't jive with the way Empower Spell works on magic. The higher your level, the more powerful the spell, and the whole thing gets multiplied by 1.5. I could be wrong , and if I am, I'll consider it to be my own house rules, but I go by augmenting the power, then multiplying the whole thing by 1.5. Take Crystal Shard, for example. One of my favorite powers. If you pay to Empower it, and it only multiplies the original die of damage, you're paying several PP for effectively 1/2 of a d6 of damage. It just seems kinda like cheating yourself.But if you're say, level 10 psion or so, you manifest the power, pay 10 PP to have it do 10d6 damage, then pay to Empower it, that's PP well spent, indeed, if it adds half of your rolled damage to the total. Psionics augmentation was made to increase flexibility, not price-gouge you on PP.

squidfur-

May 27, 2005 21:17:25

(multiply 1-1/2 times the damage total of the augmented power)

Your multiplying the "damage total", not the "dice total"(or somesuch). This to me, seems to suggest you'd take what damage has been rolled, multiplying THAT by 1.5.

Sysane

May 27, 2005 21:50:16

As I said before, I always thought it was 1.5 of the total damage as well. That is until I saw that example on page 41 of the XPH. Once I saw that, it made me question on how the 1.5 the feat grants should be actually applied.

terminus_vortexa

May 27, 2005 23:15:52

I'm making a house rule for my game. That reference on the bottom of XPH page 41 doesn't exist. It is just...... wrong. I'm going to check out the errata, but regardless, I'm ignoring that passage. It's just ........wrong. It renders the Empower concept useless. In fact, I think I'm going to black out that passage in my copy of the XPH!!! :D Where's my sharpie........

terminus_vortexa

May 27, 2005 23:19:01

I checked out the Errata. It doesn't correct the issue . Still, it's just so.....wrong. A waste of a feat.

terminus_vortexa

May 27, 2005 23:23:16

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! I KNEW IT! XPH, page 46 - the Empower description states that ALL damage and variable numeric effects of a power, including augmentation, is multiplied by 1.5! I knew it!!!! Everybody , ignore the bottom of page 41 of the XPH! it's a big, blaring error, and WOTC needs to include that in the errata!!!!!!! or I could have just read the whole post that started this thread.....Also, it says multiply the damage total by 1.5, so you have to roll the die, then multiply, because Ds represent a variable, not a sum. Anyway, this round's on me!

gilliard_derosan

May 28, 2005 11:39:54

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! I KNEW IT! XPH, page 46 - the Empower description states that ALL damage and variable numeric effects of a power, including augmentation, is multiplied by 1.5! I knew it!!!! Everybody , ignore the bottom of page 41 of the XPH! it's a big, blaring error, and WOTC needs to include that in the errata!!!!!!! or I could have just read the whole post that started this thread.....Also, it says multiply the damage total by 1.5, so you have to roll the die, then multiply, because Ds represent a variable, not a sum. Anyway, this round's on me!

Definitely sounds better this way.

cheers!