* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Before There Was Thaco..... Started at 02-19-08 04:20 AM by RealmsRunner Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=993343 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : RealmsRunner Date : 02-19-08 04:20 AM Thread Title : Before There Was Thaco..... So, I have been on these boards for about a week now, and they have been incredibly helpful. Thank you all. I keep noticing old-school gamers saying things like, "Thaco? What was that all about?" and "Thaco!? Eww!" My question is this: If there was no thaco in 1st edition, how did combat work? I'm extremely curious. Thank you for your time. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Northkin Date : 02-19-08 09:44 AM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... Table look-up. Each class (and monsters) had their own table; you cross-referenced Level with the target's AC, and got a to-hit number. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : SamualT Barronsword Date : 02-19-08 03:39 PM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... Table look-up. Each class (and monsters) had their own table; you cross-referenced Level with the target's AC, and got a to-hit number. To elaborate to some extent, there were not different tables for each and every class, there were four tables for PC classes -one for fighter types to include Paladins, Rangers and Bards -one for cleric types to include Druids and Monks -one for thieves and assassins -and one for magic users. There was also a separate, single, chart (or "Attack Matrix") for monsters, based on monsters Hit Die. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 02-20-08 04:42 AM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... So, I have been on these boards for about a week now, and they have been incredibly helpful. Thank you all. Glad to hear it RR. Welcome aboard. I've already noticed that you're definately contributing to the atmosphere here. Look forward to reading your views. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : RealmsRunner Date : 02-20-08 11:10 PM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... Glad to hear it RR. Welcome aboard. I've already noticed that you're definately contributing to the atmosphere here. Look forward to reading your views. :) Thanks a lot, TA. I really don't know what I used to do without this place. It has been since the release of 3rd edition since I had visited the Charlatans of the Coast website, and only because of the 4th edition buzz did I decide to check it out again. I'm really glad I found these boards before I got caught up in the 4th edition madness. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : RealmsRunner Date : 02-20-08 11:42 PM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... By the way, TA, it just occurred to me, that if you are a true Atlantean, you might also be a Cimmerian, seeing as how their are descendants of the few who escaped the sinking of that great city. Or maybe you are a wretched Deep One, with a clever sense of humor..... Either way, i'm curious. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 02-21-08 05:54 AM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... By the way, TA, it just occurred to me, that if you are a true Atlantean, you might also be a Cimmerian, seeing as how their are descendants of the few who escaped the sinking of that great city. Or maybe you are a wretched Deep One, with a clever sense of humor..... Either way, i'm curious. Just remember RR that "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." Some questions are best left unanswered. :incog: :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : RealmsRunner Date : 02-21-08 04:17 PM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... Indeed,you are certainly correct. I should have looked more closely at your avatar. haha -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Gleepwurp Date : 02-22-08 12:43 PM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... I've played and DM'd the pre-THACO game... in fact, I don't think I played in a game using THACO more than once or twice. The older version had, as people mentioned, tables where you would cross reference your class/level (in the case of players) or hit dice (in the case of monsters) with your target AC and this would give you the number that you had to 'meet or beat' on the dice. Bonuses or penalties for strength/weakness, magical/cursed weapons, attacking from behind, etc., were added to the dice roll. So your character might need a 16 or better to hit AC 3 according to the chart. If he was using a +1 weapon, he would need to roll only 15, etc. It was confusing at first, but I soon found ways to work around it. One of the things was to have the players write down what numbers they needed to roll to hit AC 10, 9, 8, etc., and then tell me what AC they hit when they rolled the dice. The other thing I did was photocopy my attack charts and put the copies in poly sleeves; I could then put a grease pencil check next to the needed stats. 3e players would probably find this method cumbersome and non-intuitive, but since it was what we grew up using I didn't find it so. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : RealmsRunner Date : 02-22-08 03:37 PM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... Thanks, Gleepwurp. I went and checked the combat section in my 1st edition DMG, and found those charts. Definitely cumbersome, I would say. I think having a thaco number and doing the math yourself is easier and faster than having to write down that chart, but like you said, that's what we grew up with. Thanks for the reply. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Mock26 Date : 02-22-08 03:57 PM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... One of the things was to have the players write down what numbers they needed to roll to hit AC 10, 9, 8, etc., and then tell me what AC they hit when they rolled the dice. Since the release of 2nd Edition I have always created my characters on my own custom sheets using a computer. I used to use WordPerfect, then Microsoft Word, and nowadays Excel. I have always had somewhere on my sheet a simple two-column or two-row table that lists all 21 of the possible Armor Classes and their corresponding to-hit numbers. Then, next to each weapon I list all my combat bonuses. I would then just roll the die, add my modifiers, check the chart, and tell the DM what AC I hit. It was quick and easy and it was a simple thing to update this chart every time I went up a level. With my Excel spreadsheet I have a formula that will automatically update the THAC0 chart (and other information) whenver I put in new XP for the character. I have found this the easiest way to deal with to-hit numbers. As a DM I have an excel spreadsheet for each of my players's characters and all of these sheets are linked to a master sheet that displays some basic vital information of each character (such as stats, hit points, special abilities) and off to the side are a couple of my THAC0 charts for the various characters. This way, if they forget to tell me what Armor Class they hit I can quickly look it up. Or, I can simply do the math in my head. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : lhmloa Date : 02-26-08 06:18 PM Thread Title : Re: Before There Was Thaco..... Since THAC0 simply means to hit armor class zero, 1st edition did have a thac0 (i.e. whatever # is listed on the chart). We also made our own character sheets that had the character's combat table on it for easy reference. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:22 AM.