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Greyhawk Deity

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kheti_sa-menik
Jun 11, 2005 23:53:18 Hey all you Greyhawk experts....
I'm playing in a Greyhawk campaign and I'm not that familiar with the setting.
I'm designing a character and I needed a small bit of assistance.

I am creating a holy warrior type, one who wishes to vanquish evil at any cost. He will give no quarter to the forces of darkness and expects none.
Evil is to be destroyed.

I need a deity who embodies this ideal. I've looked at Heironeous...he seems a little too chivalric for my particular idea. Pelor seems more dedicated to helping the helpless and healing.

So, any ideas? A deity who stands for the never ending battle against evil whatever the cost, without mercy or surrender.
#2
mortellan
Jun 12, 2005 1:18:15 St Cuthbert is known for his direct intervention against Iuz. That seems to fit the bill. His followers are zealous enough to battle evil at any cost but unlike the chivalric deities, Cuthbert also advocates common sense.

After him, maybe Pholtus if you want an even stricter holy warrior type than Heironeous! or maybe Al Akbar if you want a Baklunish flavor character.
#3
crag
Jun 12, 2005 1:27:25 Their are a few possiblities,

1) Pholtus (male)
Origin : Oeridian Alignment : LG (LN)
(Church of the Blinding Light LG (LN) / Church of the One True Path LN)
Intermediate Deity of Light, Resolution, Law, Order, Inflexibility, Sun, Moons and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess
If you want to stress an inflexible doctrinal stance, Pholtus is a good choice.

2) Trithereon (male)
Origin : Unknown Alignment : CG
Intermediate Deity of Individuality, Liberty, Retribution, Self-Defense and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess
If you want to stress the vengence bloody minded aspect

3) Mayaheine (female)
Origin : Unknown Alignment : LG
Demigod of Protection, Justice, Valor Unknown and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess
If you want to stress the protective aspect.

Given your post, your best fits would be Pholtus or Trithereon, ask yourself what is your PC motivation: some doctrine ideal to combat evil (Pholtus) or is the desire to combat evil motivated by vengence and tainted by a bit of payback because of a past tragedy (Trithereon).
#4
zombiegleemax
Jun 12, 2005 4:02:25 If you want to create a character who grants no quarter to evil, I'd say you almost have to play a chaotic good character. In this event, you patron would likely be Trithereon. He is the god of retribution and pursuit, and he relentlessly seeks to right the wrongs of the wicked and punish them for their evil ways. Paladins and knights who worship deities like Pholtus and Heironeous are good picks, but ultimately, most are honor-bound to accept a cry for quarter from a foe. Trithereon demands no such thing of his followers, and his followers are of such a mind they would not listen if he did. See if you DM will let you play a Paladin of Freedom from Unearthed Arcana or the Chaotic Good Paladin variant from Dragon #311.
#5
kheti_sa-menik
Jun 12, 2005 4:22:20 Sure I could expound a little on the character:
Starting at 5th level, he's a cleric/fighter.
Basically, he started his adventuring career as a fighter, fought some bandits and other annoyances in and around Verbobonc. (He's from Hommlet, in fact he's the nephew of the head Cleric of the Church of Pelor there)
After seeing the mayhem and suffering caused by evil, he (probably rashly and with no little pressure from his uncle) entered the seminary (cleric's school, whatever it's called in D&D) and was ordained a Cleric of Pelor.
This is when he ventured back to Hommlett and began to get involved in the events surrounding the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil.
His involvement began changing him - began battling real evil - plus facing a couple of very near death experiences has led him to the conclusion that Pelor doesn't endorse what needs to be done: a brutal war against evil, a campaign that will not accept surrender from the enemy but only their destruction.

The campaign against evil and his own brushes with death have changed him in fundamental ways..maybe not for the better.
#6
janusunaj
Jun 12, 2005 14:01:07 That sounds alot like something St.Cuthbert would fund. St. Cuthbert is not good. He's a rule's warlord who just happens to be on the side of good because evil violates laws so often. He even invaded Hell once, not that that's a bad thing.
#7
kwint_pendick
Jun 12, 2005 19:09:55
That sounds alot like something St.Cuthbert would fund. St. Cuthbert is not good. He's a rule's warlord who just happens to be on the side of good because evil violates laws so often. He even invaded Hell once, not that that's a bad thing.

Don't believe the hype, St. Cuthbert is good...He's lawful good with lawful neutral tendencies...He's the god of honesty and truth (among other things) and these are very much good tenets...He's also, IMO, excellent for your character's situation as he's very popular in that part of the Flanaess; in fact, Hommlet has a temple of St. Cuthbert, IRC, in the original modules...
Kwint
#8
crag
Jun 12, 2005 20:08:16 St. Cuthbert would be the easy conventional fit for the PC of that area given how popular his faith is around Hommlett and the hard nosed attitude when compared to Pelor. Definitely the "safe" choice

However, for better RP options, I suggest Trithereon.

You already mentioned some bitterness and his experiences changing him, plenty of opportunities to explore how family, friends and community will react plus allowing the personal change of the character to continue to develop.

Personally, the internal and external RP potential of Trithereon for the player are too enticing to pass up.
#9
zombiegleemax
Jun 12, 2005 21:16:13 Maybe a sect of St. Cuberth, Thirteron or way not and LN aspect of Pholtus. I can see Pholtus reaching that grade of fanatism.
#10
thanael
Jun 13, 2005 7:09:17 This reminds me of the 2E accessory Guide to Hell which lists a few orders of Cuthbertines who are devoted to fighting devils. I think they were founded by a Raoan cleric who converted to Cuthbert. They were called Order of the Rosy Cruciform or something like that...
#11
qstor
Jun 13, 2005 8:01:08
However, for better RP options, I suggest Trithereon.

You already mentioned some bitterness and his experiences changing him, plenty of opportunities to explore how family, friends and community will react plus allowing the personal change of the character to continue to develop.

Personally, the internal and external RP potential of Trithereon for the player are too enticing to pass up.

I'd go with Trithereon as well. The no-quarter part of your description seems to fit with his alignment of C. Good. St Cuthbert is a bit more lawful.

Mike
#12
zombiegleemax
Jun 15, 2005 15:14:32 St. Cuthbert? Heironeous? Pholtus? Psshaw, they're all wussies. The Church of Drake is where you want to go. Drake crushes evil with his mighty Great Sword (or Great Axe if you're from that heathen sect in Ket). He gives no quarter and he expects none in return. Dragons tremble at the sound of his name. Check with Brother Lazar in Radigast City.
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Sorry. I was totally in character there. Just a little homebrew, which is my point. If you don't like what's out there, make something up that fits the bill. Don't settle.
#13
janusunaj
Jun 15, 2005 20:59:09 If St.Cuthbert is lawful good, why is he effin listed as lawful neutral.
#14
faraer
Jun 15, 2005 21:04:28 He's listed as LN in the Player's Handbook for no other reason than that Heironeous is LG and they wanted a god of each alignment. Remember, the default setting presented in the D&D books is not exactly the World of Greyhawk but a variant world that WotC designers at least used to call Greyhawk Light.
#15
ripvanwormer
Jun 15, 2005 21:06:06
If St.Cuthbert is lawful good, why is he effin listed as lawful neutral.

He's a little from column A, and a little from column B. In 1e and 2e he was listed as lawful good with lawful neutral tendencies. In 3e he's lawful neutral with lawful good tendencies: it's the same thing. It's just a glass half-empty/half-full sort of perspectivey thing.

That's why the Player's Handbook says he doesn't have any evil clerics, even though lawful neutral gods normally would accept them: it's his lawful good tendencies rearing up.

He lives in the Plane of Arcadia, remember, halfway between absolute lawful neutral and absolute lawful good. He's neither one nor the other.
#16
zombiegleemax
Jun 17, 2005 11:42:42 He's still Lawful Good in Living Greyhawk (despite what the LGG says, the Circle has changed it back), and most home campaigns I imagine. The Saint has always been a decent guy, protecting the innocent, enforcing justice. I think the "Greyhawk Light" perspective for PH references is right on the money.
#17
faraer
Jun 17, 2005 12:55:22 It doesn't seem to be widely known, though. Here's one place it's been mentioned. The point, of course, is so the books can do whatever they want without worrying about Greyhawk continuity.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kheti_sa-menik Jun 11, 2005 23:53:18	Hey all you Greyhawk experts.... I'm playing in a Greyhawk campaign and I'm not that familiar with the setting. I'm designing a character and I needed a small bit of assistance. I am creating a holy warrior type, one who wishes to vanquish evil at any cost. He will give no quarter to the forces of darkness and expects none. Evil is to be destroyed. I need a deity who embodies this ideal. I've looked at Heironeous...he seems a little too chivalric for my particular idea. Pelor seems more dedicated to helping the helpless and healing. So, any ideas? A deity who stands for the never ending battle against evil whatever the cost, without mercy or surrender.
#2 mortellan Jun 12, 2005 1:18:15	St Cuthbert is known for his direct intervention against Iuz. That seems to fit the bill. His followers are zealous enough to battle evil at any cost but unlike the chivalric deities, Cuthbert also advocates common sense. After him, maybe Pholtus if you want an even stricter holy warrior type than Heironeous! or maybe Al Akbar if you want a Baklunish flavor character.
#3 crag Jun 12, 2005 1:27:25	Their are a few possiblities, 1) Pholtus (male) Origin : Oeridian Alignment : LG (LN) (Church of the Blinding Light LG (LN) / Church of the One True Path LN) Intermediate Deity of Light, Resolution, Law, Order, Inflexibility, Sun, Moons and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess If you want to stress an inflexible doctrinal stance, Pholtus is a good choice. 2) Trithereon (male) Origin : Unknown Alignment : CG Intermediate Deity of Individuality, Liberty, Retribution, Self-Defense and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess If you want to stress the vengence bloody minded aspect 3) Mayaheine (female) Origin : Unknown Alignment : LG Demigod of Protection, Justice, Valor Unknown and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess If you want to stress the protective aspect. Given your post, your best fits would be Pholtus or Trithereon, ask yourself what is your PC motivation: some doctrine ideal to combat evil (Pholtus) or is the desire to combat evil motivated by vengence and tainted by a bit of payback because of a past tragedy (Trithereon).
#4 zombiegleemax Jun 12, 2005 4:02:25	If you want to create a character who grants no quarter to evil, I'd say you almost have to play a chaotic good character. In this event, you patron would likely be Trithereon. He is the god of retribution and pursuit, and he relentlessly seeks to right the wrongs of the wicked and punish them for their evil ways. Paladins and knights who worship deities like Pholtus and Heironeous are good picks, but ultimately, most are honor-bound to accept a cry for quarter from a foe. Trithereon demands no such thing of his followers, and his followers are of such a mind they would not listen if he did. See if you DM will let you play a Paladin of Freedom from Unearthed Arcana or the Chaotic Good Paladin variant from Dragon #311.
#5 kheti_sa-menik Jun 12, 2005 4:22:20	Sure I could expound a little on the character: Starting at 5th level, he's a cleric/fighter. Basically, he started his adventuring career as a fighter, fought some bandits and other annoyances in and around Verbobonc. (He's from Hommlet, in fact he's the nephew of the head Cleric of the Church of Pelor there) After seeing the mayhem and suffering caused by evil, he (probably rashly and with no little pressure from his uncle) entered the seminary (cleric's school, whatever it's called in D&D) and was ordained a Cleric of Pelor. This is when he ventured back to Hommlett and began to get involved in the events surrounding the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. His involvement began changing him - began battling real evil - plus facing a couple of very near death experiences has led him to the conclusion that Pelor doesn't endorse what needs to be done: a brutal war against evil, a campaign that will not accept surrender from the enemy but only their destruction. The campaign against evil and his own brushes with death have changed him in fundamental ways..maybe not for the better.
#6 janusunaj Jun 12, 2005 14:01:07	That sounds alot like something St.Cuthbert would fund. St. Cuthbert is not good. He's a rule's warlord who just happens to be on the side of good because evil violates laws so often. He even invaded Hell once, not that that's a bad thing.
#7 kwint_pendick Jun 12, 2005 19:09:55	That sounds alot like something St.Cuthbert would fund. St. Cuthbert is not good. He's a rule's warlord who just happens to be on the side of good because evil violates laws so often. He even invaded Hell once, not that that's a bad thing. Don't believe the hype, St. Cuthbert is good...He's lawful good with lawful neutral tendencies...He's the god of honesty and truth (among other things) and these are very much good tenets...He's also, IMO, excellent for your character's situation as he's very popular in that part of the Flanaess; in fact, Hommlet has a temple of St. Cuthbert, IRC, in the original modules... Kwint
#8 crag Jun 12, 2005 20:08:16	St. Cuthbert would be the easy conventional fit for the PC of that area given how popular his faith is around Hommlett and the hard nosed attitude when compared to Pelor. Definitely the "safe" choice However, for better RP options, I suggest Trithereon. You already mentioned some bitterness and his experiences changing him, plenty of opportunities to explore how family, friends and community will react plus allowing the personal change of the character to continue to develop. Personally, the internal and external RP potential of Trithereon for the player are too enticing to pass up.
#9 zombiegleemax Jun 12, 2005 21:16:13	Maybe a sect of St. Cuberth, Thirteron or way not and LN aspect of Pholtus. I can see Pholtus reaching that grade of fanatism.
#10 thanael Jun 13, 2005 7:09:17	This reminds me of the 2E accessory Guide to Hell which lists a few orders of Cuthbertines who are devoted to fighting devils. I think they were founded by a Raoan cleric who converted to Cuthbert. They were called Order of the Rosy Cruciform or something like that...
#11 qstor Jun 13, 2005 8:01:08	However, for better RP options, I suggest Trithereon. You already mentioned some bitterness and his experiences changing him, plenty of opportunities to explore how family, friends and community will react plus allowing the personal change of the character to continue to develop. Personally, the internal and external RP potential of Trithereon for the player are too enticing to pass up. I'd go with Trithereon as well. The no-quarter part of your description seems to fit with his alignment of C. Good. St Cuthbert is a bit more lawful. Mike
#12 zombiegleemax Jun 15, 2005 15:14:32	St. Cuthbert? Heironeous? Pholtus? Psshaw, they're all wussies. The Church of Drake is where you want to go. Drake crushes evil with his mighty Great Sword (or Great Axe if you're from that heathen sect in Ket). He gives no quarter and he expects none in return. Dragons tremble at the sound of his name. Check with Brother Lazar in Radigast City. * * * * * * * * * * Sorry. I was totally in character there. Just a little homebrew, which is my point. If you don't like what's out there, make something up that fits the bill. Don't settle.
#13 janusunaj Jun 15, 2005 20:59:09	If St.Cuthbert is lawful good, why is he effin listed as lawful neutral.
#14 faraer Jun 15, 2005 21:04:28	He's listed as LN in the Player's Handbook for no other reason than that Heironeous is LG and they wanted a god of each alignment. Remember, the default setting presented in the D&D books is not exactly the World of Greyhawk but a variant world that WotC designers at least used to call Greyhawk Light.
#15 ripvanwormer Jun 15, 2005 21:06:06	If St.Cuthbert is lawful good, why is he effin listed as lawful neutral. He's a little from column A, and a little from column B. In 1e and 2e he was listed as lawful good with lawful neutral tendencies. In 3e he's lawful neutral with lawful good tendencies: it's the same thing. It's just a glass half-empty/half-full sort of perspectivey thing. That's why the Player's Handbook says he doesn't have any evil clerics, even though lawful neutral gods normally would accept them: it's his lawful good tendencies rearing up. He lives in the Plane of Arcadia, remember, halfway between absolute lawful neutral and absolute lawful good. He's neither one nor the other.
#16 zombiegleemax Jun 17, 2005 11:42:42	He's still Lawful Good in Living Greyhawk (despite what the LGG says, the Circle has changed it back), and most home campaigns I imagine. The Saint has always been a decent guy, protecting the innocent, enforcing justice. I think the "Greyhawk Light" perspective for PH references is right on the money.
#17 faraer Jun 17, 2005 12:55:22	It doesn't seem to be widely known, though. Here's one place it's been mentioned. The point, of course, is so the books can do whatever they want without worrying about Greyhawk continuity.