http://athas.org/releases/ds3/ds3_r5.pdf
This release brings the core ruleset up to date with the XPH, renames the Brute to Barbarian, and adds new feats, weapons, powers and spells.
Post errata and feedback in this thread, if you please.
page 1: Thanks for the credit, but you spelled my name wrong
page 39: the "requisition" ability of the templar is not explained
page 49: No column for weapon damage for large size? I had expected this, given that one of the PC races is large size.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6484920#post6484920
I will get up some Athasian type dudes in a bit.
EDIT: Ok, now.
edit; got the pm....will respond later. thanks.
The Psion Discipline power list and that of the Psy Warrior have a big A letter for "augmentable" instead of a small and raised letter.
Errata : In the Table of contents there is for page 43 two entries of "New and Updated skills"
p5: Aarakocra Alignment has "aarakoran tribes" - should be "aarakocran tribes"
p18: Pterran Weapon Familiarity: Slodak is already a martial weapon. Remove.
The table for racial age/height/weight characteristics seems to have been entirely removed - and it had the following problems
Pterran maximum age should be +1d10 years
The footnote for the Venerable entry for Aarakocra, Pterran and Thri-kreen should read: "These races do not suffer aging penalties or bonuses until they reach Venerable age, at which point all cumulative penalties and bonuses are applied."
p51: In the list of weapons by category Martial Weapons and Exotic Weapons run together - there should be a space seperating them.
p77: Charnel Stench - should read "Channel Stench"
p78: HAS THIS LINE OF THOUGHT BEEN ABANDONED - Coat of Mists: The mateiral component is now a focus. The description should now read:
"The mist gives you concealment, and it absorbs the first 5 points of damage from any fire based attacks or effects. It also provids the same protection against hot weathher as the endure elements spell. Further castings of coat of mitss do not have any effect, and coat of mists damage absorption does not stack with any orhter kind of energy resistance.
Pg. 79 HAS THIS LINE OF THOUGHT BEEN ABANDONED - Add this line to the end of the first paragraph of the conflagration description: "If the target is killed by this spell, the rise 1 minute later as a skeleton with the Fire sub-type under the caster's control. This skeleton's HD count against the total number of undead the caster can command." Also, replace the first sentence of the second paragraph with the following: "The target of this spell automatically catches on fire (see catching fire in the DMG) and any other creature within 10 ft. must a Reflex save (DC 15) or catch on fire as well."
p80: Create Oasis: The Range field should probably read "see text"instead of 0ft - as the text states it has a maximum radius of the oasis is 50 feet per caster level beyond 10th.
p81: Create Oasis: No Material component. BUT THERE IS ONE THERE SO - REMOVE IT?? OR IGNORE
p86: Flame Harvest: Should read: "Duration: See text. Saving Throw: Reflex Half"
p105: Complete Healing: in the 3rd sentence replace "At the end of this casting" with "At the end of this manifestation"
notice this was mostly just copy/pasted from the old (w/ non-issues removed and pg #s corrected).
Looks good and I like the addition of weapon material hardness and hp.
One question- are there going to be any more original DS spells coming our way- if so I would like to point out that the Sage has some sweet ones on a thread.
Hey Sage! Here's a
for you!Some dude's wearing my dragon!!!!!! Thats like wearing the same shirt as someone else to a party man- not cool :D
pg 39 "Sigil:" should be bold.
pg 46 The Mansadbar feat needs a descriptor.
pg 65/73/74 The blurb descriptions of Gray Rift don't match.
pg 70/84 Elemental Strike and Elemental Storm are on the Druid spell list. What energy types do they use?
pg 102 The component entry of Zombie Berry entry lists a material component, but none is described in the text. Also, there is a superfluous "i" at the end.
Rangeblade: Clarification. Do all weapon properties -- +3, flaming, etc -- transfer as well? Is there an upcoming equipment supplement that will allow this spell to be added as a weapon property?
All weapon properties are transferred. There is an arms and equipment project in the works, but I doubt rangeblade will be made a property. Too easily abused.
.Perhaps if it was a +4 or +5 ability, or maybe even epic at +6?
The following powers are in addition to the dicpline
I know there's Burst and Hustle in the XPH, but they only grant temporary speed increase and no extra attacks...
I've gotta check archives, but I belive that the table is what's authoritative in this case. Jon, can you confirm?
edit Squid: I remember applying these ... I think some of the old errata updates may have gotten lost somewhere along the way; I had a serious document crash several months back and had to roll back to a previous version. If you find any more of these, I'd be grateful to know.
I'll do an errata update in a week's time. Looking good so far, thanks guys. Keep it coming.
edit: Major errata updates will be (I'll get the typos and such above as well, but not worth listing here. ;) )
- Fixing the Templar's Secular Authority description to be consistant
- Add a "Large" column to weapon damage columns. (This is gonna do fun things with space constraints on that table, but ...)
- More "Behind the Veil" sections, if there are other areas where good questions are pointed out to me. ;)
I was just wondering if you guys needed any help with the art for the supplement? I would be happy to contribute as much as I can if you like.....
Good, good.
Another artisan for my galley. Somebody see about tying him up. Make sure the collar is tight, I don't want this one getting away.;)
Send me an email: [email]flip@athas.org[/email] ... I'll be working on coordinating things with the art soon, so need addys.
Somebody see about tying him up. Make sure the collar is tight, I don't want this one getting away.
:D lol... Heh heh No problem Flip. I am on lunch break at the moment but I am working on a few designs in my downtime at work.. I LOVE being my own boss. ;)
I've noticed that the Acceleration power got deleted from release 5. Since there is no "Haste, psionic", what's the reason for this?
I know there's Burst and Hustle in the XPH, but they only grant temporary speed increase and no extra attacks...
Since we don't want too many psionic versions of spells. It would remove some of the watermark spells and further erase the difference been the classes.
I've gotta check archives, but I belive that the table is what's authoritative in this case. Jon, can you confirm?
Correct.
Add a "Large" column to weapon damage columns. (This is gonna do fun things with space constraints on that table, but ...)
You might think about skiping the process and adding a few lines right before the weapon tables, lines that describe how to transform weapons into Large or Huge varieties, what their effects are on weight, cost, and damage.
We can do the math ourselves.
You might think about skiping the process and adding a few lines right before the weapon tables, lines that describe how to transform weapons into Large or Huge varieties, what their effects are on weight, cost, and damage.
We can do the math ourselves.
Well, in that case, I direct you to PHB 114.
Well, in that case, I direct you to PHB 114.
Heh, fine with me. Mention it somewhere though. To please people.
Pg 104 Antidote Simulation is not in correct font, size, color.
Looks good and I like the addition of weapon material hardness and hp.
One question- are there going to be any more original DS spells coming our way- if so I would like to point out that the Sage has some sweet ones on a thread.
Hey Sage! Here's a
Some dude's wearing my dragon!!!!!! Thats like wearing the same shirt as someone else to a party man- not cool :D
Wow! a cookie
, I have some more I'll post soon.http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=450003
That should do it.....
Anyway that is one that I whipped up tonight. Took about 20 minutes start to finish.... It is not refined but it is a start for me. I have been out of practice for a LOOOOOOOOOONG time. :embarrass
I took the liberty of writing some text for both in case it is needed (not trying to be presumptous or anything, just trying to be helpful
)Adventures: To a rogue, adventures are about one thing – profit. Occasionally a pet cause or mere circumstances will drive a rogue to adventure without the lure of easy money, but even then they tend to be on the lookout for a way to make a quick ceramic or two.
Background: Wherever people settle, there will be rogues. This maxim is especially true on Athas, as rogues are everywhere in Athasian society. From the trade lords of the merchant houses and scheming nobles all the way down to the lowliest of street thief, everyone fights for survival even in the relative security of the city-states. Rogues just take the shortcuts.
Good, good. Another artisan for my galley. Somebody see about tying him up. Make sure the collar is tight, I don't want this one getting away.
Yeah, it sounds good until they hang you upside down and sic jhakars on you because you uttered the word "dwelf."
I don't really see the difference in the ability stat generation rules. Yes rather than having PCs with scores between 3-18 they would be between 5-20, but when you look at the math, you really only net an additional +1 on the mods. So you can start with a +5 instead of a +4... sorry just not seeing the big deal. Still its cool.
Now I do have some questions about the finished product.
1.) Will the PrCs be included in a chapter. I know most campaign settings give you the most basic defining PrCs for the world, and then publish the more indepth PrCs in later suppliments.
2.) Will the Wander's Chronicle be intergrated into the finished version to provide a history and a timeline for Athas. Once again from what I observed of other published settings, this seems to be the norm.
3.) Will important NPCs critical to the campaign/setting be included.
I guess ultimately what I'm asking is if the final Darksun 3.5 pdf download will be a complete self contained campaign book setting, much like Ebberon/Dragonlance/Ravenloft ect? This way if someone wants to get into it, they can just click, download, save, print and play. I know there is alot of material out there, and I was just curious if this will be done so that people who are new to the Darksun setting don't have to go hunt down alot of old 2nd edition material.
Finally depending on popularity and copy right laws I was curious if Darksun 3 will ever see "print" in the form of a hardbound campaign book?
Still all in all nice work.
-Anthony-
Yeah, it sounds good until they hang you upside down and sic jhakars on you because you uttered the word "dwelf."
You just don't learn, do you? No worries, we're upgrading your facilities. Now we can fit a gaj in your cell when you act up. Like, for example, right now.
I do have to admit I really like the 3.5 Revision update. The preserver/defiler system looks like it works well, and still gives the defiler an edge without serverly distrupting play or balance.
Thanks. We've gone through a lot of revisions on how to handle defiling/preserving, as many of the long-term folks on the board can attest. ;)
I don't really see the difference in the ability stat generation rules. Yes rather than having PCs with scores between 3-18 they would be between 5-20, but when you look at the math, you really only net an additional +1 on the mods. So you can start with a +5 instead of a +4... sorry just not seeing the big deal. Still its cool.
A +1 bonus to all stats is worth at least +1 LA. But that's not even a proper translation, because the curves are different. Wasn't a big deal in AD&D, where experience was static, but in 3/3.5, experience scales based on an assumed power level. being overpowered actually generates a ripple effect that keeps you overpowered. It's easier to revert the stats than it is to rework all CRs.
Additionally, I've yet to see an internally consistant argument for using higher stats that doesn't appeal to hysterical raisens. The internally inconsistant arguments basically boil down to powergaming.
Now I do have some questions about the finished product.
1.) Will the PrCs be included in a chapter. I know most campaign settings give you the most basic defining PrCs for the world, and then publish the more indepth PrCs in later suppliments.
It's a possibility. But, one thing to keep in mind is that unlike most of the campaign settings you cite below, DS is only available online, and the products are available free of charge. Getting all the PrCs is just a second download.
2.) Will the Wander's Chronicle be intergrated into the finished version to provide a history and a timeline for Athas. Once again from what I observed of other published settings, this seems to be the norm.
Some effort may be made in this direction. However, it would have to be a total rewrite. Athas.org does not have permission to reproduce text wholesale from TSR/WotC owned and published products. Again, it's trivial to make this available as a companion accessory.
3.) Will important NPCs critical to the campaign/setting be included.
Some may. The tricky thing with that is that most of our critical NPCs require epic level rules, which aren't necessarily solidified yet. ;)
I guess ultimately what I'm asking is if the final Darksun 3.5 pdf download will be a complete self contained campaign book setting, much like Ebberon/Dragonlance/Ravenloft ect? This way if someone wants to get into it, they can just click, download, save, print and play. I know there is alot of material out there, and I was just curious if this will be done so that people who are new to the Darksun setting don't have to go hunt down alot of old 2nd edition material.Finally depending on popularity and copy right laws I was curious if Darksun 3 will ever see "print" in the form of a hardbound campaign book?
Not without a renegotation of our arangement with Wizards, and quite a bit of licencing money. Our agreement only covers online, for-free distribution. If we make money off of WotC/TSR IP, we need to be licencing it from them.
I like the way you've done the Thri-Kreen traits, especially the "racial hit dice" and "racial skills" part. That's also the 1st thing I'd like to ask/suggest.
-Why didn't you do it the same way with the Half-Giant?
or better:
-How about changing the Half-Giant traits in the form of the Thri-Kreen traits? It doesn't change anything about the contents, but (IMO) it's just "nicer" to read and better to understand.
The 2nd is just more a general question:
-According to the MM, giants (or better giant-type creatures) are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and monstrous humanoids are proficient with all simple weapons. Are half-giants, as the do have 2 (giant) HDs, and Thri-Kreens (with their 2 (monstrous humanoid) HDs proficient with these weapons, or not?
And finaly (at least for today) the 3rd one:
-Have you thought about formating the documants into 2 cullomns istead of 1? These would reduce the numbers of pages. I'm not sure if it would affect the size of the files, but I guess it does, as you do have colored backgrounds.
Well, that's all for today, and btw. nice to see that templars finally found a light
.Yeah, it sounds good until they hang you upside down and sic jhakars on you because you uttered the word "dwelf."
Actually I once began writing a novel set in Athas POST Dragon in which the main character was half elf and half dwarf...... I may actually take that effort back up soon..... After all there was a Half Halfling half Elf.
All behold the mighty ELF MUL!!!!
You just don't learn, do you? No worries, we're upgrading your facilities. Now we can fit a gaj in your cell when you act up. Like, for example, right now.
Well that is better than the half sitting half standing posture I was forced to assume at my last space...... All the while listening to the Bob Dylan, Yoko Ono " Ave Maria " duet disco remix over and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and AAAaaAAaAaaVEeeEEeeeeeeee MArrRRRrRRIIIIIiiIiIIAAaaaaa, and over, and over, and over.... I think they even started playing it backwards at one point, but it was kind of hard to notice once the oil from my unwashed hair began to drain into my ear and solidify........... oh man it sucked.
Actually I once began writing a novel set in Athas POST Dragon in which the main character was half elf and half dwarf...... I may actually take that effort back up soon..... After all there was a Half Halfling half Elf.
OMG! Dawn...do I really have to say it?!
...
Yes! An actual dwelf!!
First of all...nicely done.
I like the way you've done the Thri-Kreen traits, especially the "racial hit dice" and "racial skills" part. That's also the 1st thing I'd like to ask/suggest.
-Why didn't you do it the same way with the Half-Giant?
or better:
-How about changing the Half-Giant traits in the form of the Thri-Kreen traits? It doesn't change anything about the contents, but (IMO) it's just "nicer" to read and better to understand.
Hrm. Yeah, half-giant contains the same information, but not nearly so well distinguished as with the Thri-kreen. I'll convert that.
The 2nd is just more a general question:
-According to the MM, giants (or better giant-type creatures) are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and monstrous humanoids are proficient with all simple weapons. Are half-giants, as the do have 2 (giant) HDs, and Thri-Kreens (with their 2 (monstrous humanoid) HDs proficient with these weapons, or not?
I'll look into it, but since they've got HD in their respective types, they get all features of that type, so they'd have the weapon (and armor, possibly) profiencies as well. (the saving grace is that at least HG rogues don't get 40 skill points to start with ....)
And finaly (at least for today) the 3rd one:
-Have you thought about formating the documants into 2 cullomns istead of 1? These would reduce the numbers of pages. I'm not sure if it would affect the size of the files, but I guess it does, as you do have colored backgrounds.
I've considered two column format, and the final doc will probably be in two columns. I just didn't want to spend a whole lot of time fighting with the formatting on this one.
Thank you!!!!!
Errata : In the Table of contents there is for page 43 two entries of "New and Updated skills"
Read it again, silly frog.
It's really impressive the things the mind does when it thinks it's identified a pattern. :D
pg 29 Knowledge(Warcraft) is a class skill for fighters, but it's not described anywhere in the document or the SRD.
Jon, do you remember what happened to this skill? Did it get accidentally or deliberatly dropped?
I liked the skill a lot, please don't tell me you dropped it
I have to agree with the Sage on this. It is a cool skill for fighters and gives them some added flavor (hummm, chocolate!!)
pg 58 The reference to "Table 7-2: Temperature Categories" should reference "Table 6-1: Extreme Temperatures".
pg 61 The placement of the text around Table 7-1 is odd. The last line of text on the page should either be above the table with the rest of the paragraph or on the next page.
pg 62 What is the point of the Energy Types section and table for paraelements? Earth, Air and Water are not standard energy types, and the table is never referenced in the rest of the document. All the spells that require a cleric to specify an energy type already have the choice made for the caster.
For example: A human fighter of Urik, with an Int-score of 9, would know common, but shouldn't he also be able to speak urikite (I hope that was the right word)?
There is no description for the Elven Longblade, just the rules for it.
I guess most do it already, but I can't find any rule for that.
btw. have you ever thougt about adding the mind's eye psychic rouge as a base class for DS?
p7, Last sentence of Dwarven Focus sidebar reads "...because he isn't actively pursing his focus."
Jon, do you remember what happened to this skill? Did it get accidentally or deliberatly dropped?
It is definitely not supposed to be left out. I will send you the description this evening.
Use psionic device should be a class skill for rouges.
Fair point. As a DM, I tend to allow crossover on those skills/feats ... psionic magic items and magic items work pretty much the same, and I think it's a bit cruel to force the skill point doubling there. I use the Psionics are Sorta the Same variant. ;)
btw. have you ever thougt about adding the mind's eye psychic rouge as a base class for DS?
I don't believe that we can add it in the core docs. Mind's eye isn't in the SRD.
There is a lot of material that isn't in the SRD, that is still OGC. Most of the rules released by third party publishers are OGC. So as long as it was released by a third party publishers, chances are the rules are OGC. ;)
Fair point. As a DM, I tend to allow crossover on those skills/feats ... psionic magic items and magic items work pretty much the same, and I think it's a bit cruel to force the skill point doubling there. I use the Psionics are Sorta the Same variant. ;)
Normally I wouldn't agree with you since in most D&D games I run I tend to enforce that Psionics and Magic are NOT the same, but in Darksun the two have been tied though the campaigns history as coming from the same power. Thus the Psionics/Magic Transparency rule should be used, as ultimately both have their origins from the same source.
-Anthony-
Normally I wouldn't agree with you since in most D&D games I run I tend to enforce that Psionics and Magic are NOT the same, but in Darksun the two have been tied though the campaigns history as coming from the same power. Thus the Psionics/Magic Transparency rule should be used, as ultimately both have their origins from the same source.
-Anthony-
Actually, of all worlds I feel that DS would treat magic and psionics as two separate sources or not one and the same. Spell Resistance wouldn't stop a psionic power from effecting a creature on Athas.
In "standard" worlds I tend to think they would be treated the same due to balance issues and most worlds not accounting for psionic use.
Actually, of all worlds I feel that DS would treat magic and psionics as two separate sources or not one and the same. Spell Resistance wouldn't stop a psionic power from effecting a creature on Athas.
In "standard" worlds I tend to think they would be treated the same due to balance issues and most worlds not accounting for psionic use.
I tend to think that magic was developed because of psionics.
Rajaat was a powerful psionicist, and IMO, used the application of drawing energy from inside the users mind and body to power psionics to develope the method of drawing the power from an outside source. Magic on Athas is an extension of psionics in many ways so I believe that the Magic/ Psionics Transparency Rule is most applicable in DS.
Normally I wouldn't agree with you since in most D&D games I run I tend to enforce that Psionics and Magic are NOT the same, but in Darksun the two have been tied though the campaigns history as coming from the same power. Thus the Psionics/Magic Transparency rule should be used, as ultimately both have their origins from the same source.
DS3.5 by default operates with the "Psionics are different rule".
DS3.5 by default operates with the "Psionics are different rule".
Cool! :D
Normally I wouldn't agree with you since in most D&D games I run I tend to enforce that Psionics and Magic are NOT the same, but in Darksun the two have been tied though the campaigns history as coming from the same power. Thus the Psionics/Magic Transparency rule should be used, as ultimately both have their origins from the same source.
1) For the actual casting, dispelling effects and such, I treat them as different. It's only for items that I'm inclined to treat them similiary.
Magic and Psionics don't come from the same source, really. Yes, Arcane Magic draws on life energy. That's not the same thing as your Will. High level psions don't give dragon's any more fuel than high level fighters.
On p.63, BlindScorch is listed as a 4th-level spell. It is actually only domain spell (I hope) as is writted in the description.
I'll keep my eyes open for other things. ;)
btw. Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device are both class skills for bards, that's why mentioned it for before. That reminds me of something else. Aren't exlclusive skills (as use magic device for bards [p. 24]) from the time of 3.0? I thought 3.5 doesn't have exclusive skills any more.
page 25: You should rename the bard's trade secret Agile to avoid confusions with the PHB's equally called feat.
Any suggestion?
Aren't exlclusive skills (as use magic device for bards [p. 24]) from the time of 3.0? I thought 3.5 doesn't have exclusive skills any more.
Correct. Is there something still flagged as Exclusive in the doc?
The only reason I ask is the other threads are really long and for some a bit overwhelming to walk into.
Is there going to be a new thread made for feedback for DA II and for the Dragon material or is everyone going to still post to the same ones.
The only reason I ask is the other threads are really long and for some a bit overwhelming to walk into.
New threads.
Next update will be out in time for you to read by the light of the fireworks.
I've made a good chunk of these updates. Knowledge(Warcraft) will be readded. I'm consulting on some of the other things.
Next update will be out in time for you to read by the light of the fireworks.
Your such a romantic, aahh, dude!