What do you think of this spell?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Pennarin

Jul 06, 2005 23:19:06
I based it off Tenser's transformation (PHB), Nightstalker's transformation (Complete Adventurer), and mental pinnacle (XPH).
Btw, Nightstalker's transformation is dismissable, but that can be changed for this spell.

Sorcerous Transformation
Transmutation
Level: Wizard 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)

You become a far more potent spellcaster whilst becoming more confident and skilled with arcane knowledge.
You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Intelligence, a +5 competence bonus on Will saves, a +5 insight bonus on Concentration and Spellcraft checks, and can take 10 on caster level checks (as if the caster level check was a skill check). Your caster level equals your character level.
This spell does not affect your spells per day. It increases your caster level in the wizard class only, which would help you penetrate spell resistance and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.
You lose your manifesting ability and the use of psi-like abilities, including your ability to use power activation or power trigger psionic items, just as if those powers were no longer on your class list. You also take a penalty of -4 to attack and damage rolls with weapons, but not with spells that require an attack roll and deal damage.
Material Component: A potion of fox’s cunning, which you drink (and whose effects are subsumed by the spell effects).



From the XPH:
Mental Pinnacle
Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level

For a brief time, you achieve the mental dominance of a powerful psion, able to lash out at enemies using only the power of your mind. Your revel in your new mental powers to the point that you disdain using spells, even in the form of effects from magic items. You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Intelligence and Wisdom, 3 power points per caster level, and access to the following powers.
Mind Thrust(A): Deal 1d10 damage.
Ego Whip(A): Deal 1d4 Cha damage and daze for 1 round.
Psionic Blast(A): Stun creatures in 30-ft. cone for 1 round.
Id Insinuation: Swift tendrils of thought disrupt and confuse your target.
Psychic Crush(A): Brutally crush subject’s mental essence, reducing subject to –1 hit points.
You manifest the powers as a psion of your caster level does, creating displays as described in each power’s description. You lose your spellcasting ability, including your ability to use spell activation or spell completion magic items, just as if those spells were no longer on your class list. For the duration of this spell, you use magic items and psionic items as if you were a psion with only the five powers given above on your class list.
Any unspent power points dissipate when the spell ends.
Material Component: A potion of fox’s cunning, which you drink (its effect is overridden by the effect of this spell).
#2

lyric

Jul 06, 2005 23:53:37
One thing I notice, in the first spell, you trade a sixth level spell for a boost in the other spells you can cast, the tradeoff, you can't use any psionic abilities..

The second spell, you trade a sixth level spell for a boost.. oops, nope, for a few psionic powers that the character may actually already have or may not have, and the trade off is, you can't use any of the other spells you have stored, for a duration of 1 round per level.. for a character who is a single class wizard, that duration is more a handycap than a bonus in my view.. and I don't think the spells are of like character, one affecting magic and one psionics.. I don't know which if either, was the original, but they don't seem to do the same thing.

Meaning, they don't each boost magic or psionics respectively.. one boosts a wizards power, the other grants a few psionic abilities.. its like taking a sixth level spell and granting a few lower level spells as spell like abilities.. it doesn't quite fit "if" you're trying to make a psionic amplifier of the first spell.. IMO.

Otherwise, the idea is interesting, I like the first spell pretty much as is.. the second spell I think could be more closely molded to enhancing a psion ability.. what I think would be neat, is if it enhanced say, a wild talent (if anyone brings that back into play) or, if it metapsionically enhanced other existing psionics of the user.. (for which a base psp pool should exist).

Again, just tossing ideas..
#3

ruhl-than_sage

Jul 07, 2005 0:04:41
I'm not sure if it's really fair to let a spell increase your spellcasting ability . The other spells that you used as reference, are spells that increase your combat, rougish, or manifesting abilities. You might have some abilities in those areas already, but you obviously have devoted quite a bit of your training to wizardly pursuits. So your not taking a maxed out fighter and making him a better fighter or a maxed out psion and making him a better psion. But in the case of the spell you are preposing, that's exactly what you are allowing: A character who only has levels in wizard could cast this spell and become an even better wizard for a while. Now if you made a Psion power that worked in a similar way to boost a wizards spellcasting ability, that would be fair.
#4

Pennarin

Jul 07, 2005 2:46:40
Btw Lyric, the quoted spell is from the XPH. All of the three transformation spells affect something else you have: fighting skills, roguish skills, psionic powers (actually in that case, gives you psionic powers).
My attempt is to make a spell that enchances your spellcasting skills.
There are many references to arcane rituals - movies, tv, d&d, novels - that boost your spellcasting for a while.

A character who only has levels in wizard could cast this spell and become an even better wizard for a while. Now if you made a Psion power that worked in a similar way to boost a wizards spellcasting ability, that would be fair.

Actually this spell is nearly worthless for a character who only has levels of wizard. Its useful for characters who have levels in other classes, thus having a reduced caster level (one that does not equal their character level).

I posted a slightly different version of this spell on the spell boards, here, and the conclusion was that A) I can make this spell 7th-level and avoid hindrances, and B) I can make it 6th-level but it requires hindrances. Board members prefered the idea of hindrances but could not come to an agreement as to its nature.

This current version, as it fixates on magic, hinders combat and blocks out psionics.
#5

ruhl-than_sage

Jul 07, 2005 9:19:54
Actually this spell is nearly worthless for a character who only has levels of wizard. Its useful for characters who have levels in other classes, thus having a reduced caster level (one that does not equal their character level).

Lol, nearly worthless! Nice try, I think not. So, you don't gain any bonus to your caster level. You still gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Intelligence, a +5 competence bonus on Will saves, a +5 insight bonus on Concentration and Spellcraft checks, and can take 10 on caster level checks (as if the caster level check was a skill check). And on top of that your "hinderances" in that case have virtually no effect.

You lose your manifesting ability and the use of psi-like abilities, including your ability to use power activation or power trigger psionic items, just as if those powers were no longer on your class list. You also take a penalty of -4 to attack and damage rolls with weapons, but not with spells that require an attack roll and deal damage.

The only part of this that might matter to a fully classed wizard is the loss of a wild talent for a few rounds. Woooo!
#6

kalthandrix

Jul 07, 2005 10:01:00
I like the spell, but have to agree with the Sage on the fact that the hinderences are not really that major of a factor. Not only do ALL of your spells have their DC increases by 3 from the bonus to you Int, and it has a lot of really great bonus' to many other things for wizards.

The suggestion I would make is this. Make the spell a psionic power! Here is my reasoning.

1) The increase to caster level is not really revelant to a character with all their levels in wizard.

2) The same goes for loosing the ability to manifest powers and use psionic trigger items, not really revelent for a full classes wizard.

Those who would get the most benefit from the spell is wizard/psions.

You know, if this were made a power, you could change it to also be effective for cleric or druid/psions by making the +6 effective for the character's major spellcasting attribute.

By making it a power, you also are saved from sacrificing a pretty decent potion-fruit because powers do not have material components. The DS3 material is really lacking in more setting-original psionic powers and having a power like this would be perfect for a world with Advanced Beings in it.
#7

Pennarin

Jul 07, 2005 11:47:34
Thanks for the efforts guy, but at the risk of sundding intransigent I'll have to say No to the power version.

The goal is to allow a wizard (in DS this is thematically important!) to boost himself up for a while.

Spell board members were thinking I could sidestep hindrances all together by upping the spell level by 1. In this case, by adding psionic and combat references I was trying to please people.

Maybe this sounds better:

Sorcerous Transformation
Transmutation
Level: Wizard 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)

You become a far more potent spellcaster whilst becoming more confident and skilled with arcane knowledge.
You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Intelligence, a +5 competence bonus on Will saves, a +5 insight bonus on Concentration and Spellcraft checks, and can take 10 on caster level checks (as if the caster level check was a skill check). Your caster level equals your character level.
This spell does not affect your spells per day. It increases your caster level in the wizard class only, which would help you penetrate spell resistance and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.
Material Component: A potion of fox’s cunning, which you drink (and whose effects are subsumed by the spell effects).
#8

Pennarin

Jul 07, 2005 13:41:46
Ok, I reviewed the spell board feedback and the Rage Mage's Spell Rage ability and came up with this (the penalties are open-ended, needing feedback):

For the duration of the spell you are considered non-proficient with any weapon and armor, cannot use Strength-, Dexterity-, or Constitution-based skills (except for Concentration), take a -X penalty to Armor Class, as well as a -X penalty to attack and damage rolls with weapons (but not with spells that require an attack roll and deal damage).

#9

kalthandrix

Jul 07, 2005 15:07:49
Sorry Pennarin- I am not a fan of keeping it a spell but that is just me. I think that it is good material, but not something I would really use. :D
#10

lyric

Jul 07, 2005 15:16:50
Btw Lyric, the quoted spell is from the XPH. All of the three transformation spells affect something else you have: fighting skills, roguish skills, psionic powers (actually in that case, gives you psionic powers).
My attempt is to make a spell that enchances your spellcasting skills.
There are many references to arcane rituals - movies, tv, d&d, novels - that boost your spellcasting for a while.

I hadn't read that one before, I'm a slacker I know. That's funny too, because I thought the first spell was better structured than the quoted one I'm all for a spell that boosts other spells/wizard capabilities, that's how metamagic worked in 2e (of which I'm an old fan). I don't quite see how the quoted spell is supposed to relate to the new one though, I assume it was meant to be used as justification or a primer of sorts for the new spell?? As I said, they were each slightly different. I do like the concept of the new spell however.
#11

Pennarin

Jul 07, 2005 18:00:02
Thanks Lyric ;)

Anyone has an opinion on these hindrances? :
For the duration of the spell you are considered non-proficient with any weapon and armor, cannot use Strength-, Dexterity-, or Constitution-based skills (except for Concentration), take a -X penalty to Armor Class, as well as a -X penalty to attack and damage rolls with weapons (but not with spells that require an attack roll and deal damage).

#12

Pennarin

Aug 03, 2005 2:07:40


Check out the last post. I'd really like to finish this spell. There were few voices for or against this spell and I'd like to hear more, feel the pulse of the boards so to speak. :D
#13

zombiegleemax

Aug 03, 2005 6:03:55
Actually other than the taking 10 on caster level checks i don't really see a problem with the spell. If you have the boost this spell gives you, you shouldn't need to take a 10. Secondly the fact that the spell only last 1 round/level isn't that powerful until you get to epic levels and then the DC and spell resistance changes anyway. the most you can get before level 21 is 20 rounds. Lets do the math. a round is 6 seconds long so 6*20 = 120 / 60(seconds in a minute) = 2.
If the math is right, its not hard math, this spell only lasts 2 minutes, therefore only feasible for combat, you can’t use it for item creation not even a scroll you can’t use it to memorize extra bonus spells.
Really the only thing to get from this spell is a temporary boots to spell DC, a +5 bonus to will and concentration and spellcraft check.

Its not an all powerful make me a god for a few hours or days spell but just a very quick (and fleeting IMO) boost kind of like a sugar high effect. If there has to be a down side to this short-term effect and you want to make sure people don’t abuse it put a fatigue on it.
Say a negative to everything to got bonuses to for ½ the duration of the spell or make a fort save to negate these negative effects maybe the negative –3 to INT and –8 to the skill and will checks.
#14

kalthandrix

Aug 04, 2005 15:56:27
I still think this should be a psionic power :D

I like the last verson that you put out better then the one on your first post.

I personally do not see that you could do much else with this spell at this point.
#15

Pennarin

Aug 04, 2005 16:09:19
When you say you like the latest version, which one do you mean?

Sorcerous Transformation
Transmutation
Level: Wizard 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)

You become a far more potent spellcaster whilst becoming more confident and skilled with arcane knowledge.
You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Intelligence, a +5 competence bonus on Will saves, a +5 insight bonus on Concentration and Spellcraft checks, and can take 10 on caster level checks (as if the caster level check was a skill check). Your caster level equals your character level.
This spell does not affect your spells per day. It increases your caster level in the wizard class only, which would help you penetrate spell resistance and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.
You lose your manifesting ability and the use of psi-like abilities, including your ability to use power activation or power trigger psionic items, just as if those powers were no longer on your class list. You are considered non-proficient with any weapon and armor, cannot use Strength-, Dexterity-, or Constitution-based skills (except for Concentration), take a -X penalty to Armor Class, as well as a -X penalty to attack and damage rolls with weapons (but not with spells that require an attack roll and deal damage).
Material Component: A potion of fox’s cunning, which you drink (and whose effects are subsumed by the spell effects).

Sorcerous Transformation
Transmutation
Level: Wizard 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)

You become a far more potent spellcaster whilst becoming more confident and skilled with arcane knowledge.
You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Intelligence, a +5 competence bonus on Will saves, a +5 insight bonus on Concentration and Spellcraft checks, and can take 10 on caster level checks (as if the caster level check was a skill check). Your caster level equals your character level.
This spell does not affect your spells per day. It increases your caster level in the wizard class only, which would help you penetrate spell resistance and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.
Material Component: A potion of fox’s cunning, which you drink (and whose effects are subsumed by the spell effects).

#16

kalthandrix

Aug 04, 2005 17:43:12
Well when you put it that way (and after I fully read them again) I would have to go with

Sorcerous Transformation
Transmutation
Level: Wizard 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)

You become a far more potent spellcaster whilst becoming more confident and skilled with arcane knowledge.
You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Intelligence, a +5 competence bonus on Will saves, a +5 insight bonus on Concentration and Spellcraft checks, and can take 10 on caster level checks (as if the caster level check was a skill check). Your caster level equals your character level.
This spell does not affect your spells per day. It increases your caster level in the wizard class only, which would help you penetrate spell resistance and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.
You lose your manifesting ability and the use of psi-like abilities, including your ability to use power activation or power trigger psionic items, just as if those powers were no longer on your class list. You are considered non-proficient with any weapon and armor, cannot use Strength-, Dexterity-, or Constitution-based skills (except for Concentration), take a -X penalty to Armor Class, as well as a -X penalty to attack and damage rolls with weapons (but not with spells that require an attack roll and deal damage).
Material Component: A potion of fox’s cunning, which you drink (and whose effects are subsumed by the spell effects).

Here is a thought...Maybe add some low XP burn, like around 50-100.
Then for the X penalties, maybe you would want to go with some thing like -3 to attack and damage rolls.

And I suppose while I am providing feedback, in the section
It increases your caster level in the wizard class only, which would help you penetrate spell resistance and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.

I would state that your caster level increase cannot exceed your character level (like the language for Practiced Spellcaster from the Complete Divine and Arcane).

One more thing. I was reading over Tenser's Transformation and I thought that maybe a penalty to AC would be in order too. This penalty could be explained by the fact that the casters mind is so full of the arcane rush provided by the spell, that they kind of zone out the mundane and thought of protecting their physical shell are ignored due to the desire to let their arcane power flow. I would suggest that the penalty to AC match the one for attacks and damage.
#17

Pennarin

Aug 05, 2005 21:44:58
Kal, the answer to all your questions is in the quoted spell.

I would state that your caster level increase cannot exceed your character level (like the language for Practiced Spellcaster from the Complete Divine and Arcane).
Your caster level equals your character level.

I thought that maybe a penalty to AC would be in order too.
[...] take a -X penalty to Armor Class [...]

As for the other suggestions, -3 is good, both for rolls and armor. The XP cost: its not part of any of the other "transformation" spells, so why are you positing a cost this time around?
#18

ruhl-than_sage

Aug 06, 2005 13:26:51
An xp cost is almost implicit in the use of a Fox's Cunning potion. That said I still don't find this to be exceptable as a spell.