[size=4]The Faded[/size] v1.0
Free your mind, let fade this corporeal shell.
Hit Die: d4
Requirements:
To qualify to become The Faded, a character must fulfill the following criteria:
Skills: Concentration 10 ranks, Knowledge Psionics 10 ranks, Knowledge Planes 10 ranks
Feats: Psionic Body, Psionic Endowment, Overchannel (?)
Powers: Psionic Dominate, Control Body, Telekinetic Force
Class Skills:
The Faded's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (wis), Bluff (cha), Concentration (con), Disguise (cha), Knowledge (psionics) (int), Knowledge (planes) (int), Psicraft (int), Sense Motive (wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Powers:At each level except fifth and tenth The Faded gains additional powers and power points as though he had gained a level in a previous manifester class. If the character had more than one manifester class before beginning this prestige class he must choose which class to advance at the first level of this PRC.
Either this is wrong or your chart is wrong, I don't know which you intended for the manifester levels.
):At tenth level The Faded has more than embraced a disdain for physical stature, he has learned to shed it all together.
Stature doesn't mean what you think it means. Here are the two definitions of stature:
Stature: 1. A person's natural height (ex. a man of short stature/she was small in stature) 2. Importance or Reputation gained by ability or achievement (ex. an architect of international stature)
As for how balanced the class is... I'm not really sure, I don't think I've ever seen abilities set up the way you've got them set up and I don't know how a cumlutative -5 penalty to strength really fits into the balance scheme when it doesn't even matter in the end.
The idea of Physically wasting away in order to become a creature of pure energy is very interesting, though I'm not sure a penalty to strength represents that. You lose your Constitution score when you become incorporeal too, why not also have penalties to Con?
Having two abilities with names as similar as My mind is stronger than yours and My mind is stronger than you should probably be avoided.
Sorry to be harsh but, I don't like the names of your special abilities, they sound childish and cliche to me.
They were meant to be cliche and somewhat mocking. I'm fond of cliches, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point, and the mocking is something of a demonstration of the class's self-percieved superiority.
Either this is wrong or your chart is wrong, I don't know which you intended for the manifester levels.
Thanks for catching that, the chart is right, the paragraph was wrong. I had changed the lost manifester levels based on some feedback from the psionics board.
Stature doesn't mean what you think it means. Here are the two definitions of stature:
Stature: 1. A person's natural height (ex. a man of short stature/she was small in stature) 2. Importance or Reputation gained by ability or achievement (ex. an architect of international stature).
stat·ure ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stchr)
n.
1. The natural height of a human or animal in an upright position.
2. An achieved level; status.
In this case I would be referring to individual's status as a corporeal creature. You can argue the semantics of whether or not status as a corporeal being is achieved or whether it needs to be to meet the definition, but it's just that, semantics.
As for how balanced the class is... I'm not really sure, I don't think I've ever seen abilities set up the way you've got them set up and I don't know how a cumlutative -5 penalty to strength really fits into the balance scheme when it doesn't even matter in the end.
The -5 strength isn't necessarily a matter of balancing, it's part flavor, part insurance that once someone starts they'll finish, or at least suffer a penalty for abandoning it, and as the strength is lost, any character that had any kind of reliance on physical means of accomplishing things will find it becoming more and more difficult. That's kind of exactly what I was going for.
The idea of Physically wasting away in order to become a creature of pure energy is very interesting, though I'm not sure a penalty to strength represents that. You lose your Constitution score when you become incorporeal too, why not also have penalties to Con?
I'm not sure which incorporeal subtype you're reading, but neither the one in the DMG nor the one in the monster manual talk about constitution at all, only an absence of strength. Although incorporeal beings are immune to critical hits and sneak attack damage, there is nothing in the RAW that makes them immune to magical poisons or other magical attacks which might subject them to a fortitude save as undead are. I think you may just be confusing incorporeal with undead.
Having two abilities with names as similar as My mind is stronger than yours and My mind is stronger than you should probably be avoided.
The similarity of the names is representative of the simliarity of the epiphany the character undergoes as s/he explores the strength of his or her own mind. First the realization that s/he is smarter than the people around them, then the realization that because his/her mind is stronger their physical strength is irrelevant. If you have a better way to make the same point, by all means, please make a suggestion.
They were meant to be cliche and somewhat mocking. I'm fond of cliches, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point, and the mocking is something of a demonstration of the class's self-percieved superiority.(...) The similarity of the names is representative of the simliarity of the epiphany the character undergoes as s/he explores the strength of his or her own mind. First the realization that s/he is smarter than the people around them, then the realization that because his/her mind is stronger their physical strength is irrelevant. If you have a better way to make the same point, by all means, please make a suggestion.
Regardless of the reasons for your naming scheme, it would be for the better if you changed your ability names to something more streamlined - if you want your class to be perceived more professionally. People are only trying to help, especially since you stated that this is your first attempt at a prestige class.
If you don't won't feedback don't ask for it. I don't think I'll be ressponding to your posts again.
"Childish and cliche" isn't feedback, it's criticism. A suggestion to make the ability names more streamlined is feedback. And if you've got a criticism, I'd appreciate a suggestion regarding a direction to take the problem, not just an identification of the problem. What good is it to tell me the room is dark if you can't point me in the direction of a lightswitch or a candle?
And I responded to each point you made individually with the reasons for why things are the way they are. I'm more than open to conversations exploring whether or not those reasons are good and/or sound.
(To clarify on the "stature" issue, there is such a thing as physical stature, many people work very hard to achieve it. This class takes exactly the opposite approach. When one has achieved a state of physical stature it usually means that one is large and imposing...by contrast members of this class disregard such a pursuit as petty and inconsequential.)
And realistically, if the biggest problem people are having with the class right now is how I named the abilities, I'd say it was a pretty good first attempt. All of the comments you made on the substantive "meat" of the class were kind of vague and ambiguous.
All that being said, if there is a consensus that the ability names ought to be streamlined or changed, please, I'm open to suggestions.
I haven't read the ability descriptions because of the names. I usually don't look at prestige class threads on this board until there has been several rounds of feedback, and if I see a factor that I consider a significant discrepancy, I click Back. That might seem harsh, but in the end the prestige classes find their way to my mailbox and I do the final edits, so it works.Here are some thoughts and names for powers I came up with
Mind Over Body to replace My mind is stronger than yours.
The Wasting to replace -1 Strength.
Empowering Mind to replace My mind is stronger than you.
Mind Over Matter is fine
Transend the Flesh to replace I think therefore I am
I would also suggest looking over the powers and see if it actually does what you are emplying with the name. There were several times that I would read a name and the power discription was totally different.
I also have to agree that all of the save bonuses seem somewhat excessive. I would be easier to get a cloak of resistance +5 then to sacrifice the body to advance in this PrC.
I am not trying to be rude, I am just giving you some things to think about. I would also like to point out that I know how it is to have people dig at the things that you wrote and tear it apart. I is easy to start taking it personally. But believe me when I say that it is anything but personal attacks on you or you idea- you asked for help and typing is a hard medium to use because it is easy to take thing out of context. :D
Sorry - don't have any suggestions for ya.
Rethought the idea of the name "The Wasting". Sounds more like a disease, so I thought of this instead. Have the ability called Unbeing, and instead of reducing Str-which is pointless later in the class, make it that they begin their shift into the incorporeal, like they must spend so much time per day kind of faded out of the physical realm.
For Empowed Mind, I thought that a combination of two of your original abilities would be cool. So at like first level, give them a floating bonus of +1 that can be add to either the manifester level to effect the numerical variables of the power (not PSP's that can be spent) or to the DC of the power, useable once per day per +1 of Int modifier they have. Increase the bonus to +2 at 5th and +3 at 9th.
For Mind Over Matter, allow the Faded to try to avoid some blows by willing them selves to fade as a swift or free action in combat, giving those that strike them a % change to miss, like 11+Int bonus + Faded level. Again this ability will kind of be pointless at 10th level, but it shows the Faded transition from the material to the incorporeal.
Just a few suggestions to maybe give you new ideas of your own or you can use them and adapt them as you will.
Here are some thoughts and names for powers I came up with
Mind Over Body to replace My mind is stronger than yours.
I had considered using Mind over body, until I remembered that there was a feat by that name. But when I was thinking about using it I was thinking about using in place of "My mind is stronger than you." It does maintain the concept, I think of the mind being stronger than the body, but do you think the conflict with the feat name intereferes?
The Wasting to replace -1 Strength.
I like this a lot, actually. I kind of thre the strength loss in at the end because I realized I had originally intended something like that but hadn't put it in there, and there really was no "fading" going on until it was added. Hadn't actually thought to give it a name, but that's kind of perfect.
Empowering Mind to replace My mind is stronger than you.
Assuming I were to go with Mind over Body to replace this skill, something like Empowering Mind could be viable as a replacement for "My mind is stronger than yours," but I don't think it quite delivers the sense of The Faded's mind overpowering weaker minds, it honestly sounds more metapsionic than anything else. What do you think about something like Strip the Will (which I don't particularly like because one, it doesn't sound right and two, it might cause confusion with Athasians referring to psionics as the Will and the Way), or perhaps The Will to Overpower or The Will to Overcome? I don't know, the fact that Athasian rhetoric has co-opted the word Will in the way that it has makes something like this a little trickier.
Transend the Flesh to replace I think therefore I am
Since that is exactly what happens as I describe it that would be fine, like I said, I'm just fond of cliches. But again, I'm more than happy to move with consensus on issues like this. This is certainly more succinct about what happens :P
I would also suggest looking over the powers and see if it actually does what you are emplying with the name. There were several times that I would read a name and the power discription was totally different.
I'm honestly not sure what you mean by this. What would you expect to be different based on the names of the abilities versus what is written in the description?
"My mind is stronger than yours" (your mind is actually what I wanted, but that really was just too long), and it makes attacks on other peoples' minds stronger...the best way I could think of without going through and making a list of powers that could or might be affected by something like this was just to default to the will save as something that is representative of a strong mind. This is supported by "mind" classes having strong will saves, and rarely strong saves in other categories.
"My mind is stronger than you" (you are is actually what I wanted, but again, length issues), and it makes attacks on other peoples' bodies stronger, again, the generalization for this was the fortitude save, supported again by the "beefy" classes having strong fort saves.
"Mind Over Matter" was actually another place I considered using "Mind Over Body" but once again rejected it because of the feat. Nonetheless, it represents The Faded's triumph of powerful intellect over corporeal harms.
"Quick Thinking" I actually considered a number of things that this could be, including a bonus to initiative, a bonus to AC, or a free quickened power, but ultimately went with the bonus to reflex save because it was a better match to the way the rest of the abilities were coming out.
I guess I just don't understand where you see the conflict...could you be more specific?
I also have to agree that all of the save bonuses seem somewhat excessive. I would be easier to get a cloak of resistance +5 then to sacrifice the body to advance in this PrC.
There are only two save bonuses, which certainly isn't unprecendented given the Black Guard's bonuses to all three saves, so I don't really think it's excessive. Like the Black Guard's bonuses, they are not a resistance bonus, so it would actually stack with a Cloak of Resistance, but given the illicit nature of magic in many parts of Athas, I don't know that a Cloak of Resistance +5 is going to be all that easy to come by anyway. As for sacrificing the body, I mean, that's kind of the point. Mind you, this was originally inspired by my dissatisfaction with the Psion Uncarnate, so it's pretty much intended for players that don't feel like staying corporeal to begin with. Incorporeality comes with some pretty nice tactical advantages that I would hesitate to call a "sacrifice" really. The Wasting (tee hee) is simply a visible physical manifestation of the fading away of the characters corporeal body. Frankly, I think most players would give up five strength over the course of nine levels if it wasn't going to matter in ten to avoid the additional two manifester level hit that comes with PU. Additionally, while the body grows weaker the power of the mind grows stronger, that's what is represented by the increased save DCs.
Perhaps by excessive bonuses you mean the fact that every ability (save for the last two) deals with bonuses or negatives of some kind is just going to get confusing to keep track or something, but I guess that's just not my own experience as a player. Many PrCs deal with different bonuses that you have to keep track of, it's just a part of the game mechanics. I've rarely met players who are loathe to keep careful track of their various bonuses :D
My initial feeling on seeing this PrC was, "Nice....but for Dark Sun?" It just really seems to be missing that athasian feel for me. Maybe, by adding some class elements that pertain more to DS....????
Sorry - don't have any suggestions for ya.
The reason I brought this to the DS board rather than just leaving it on the psionics board has to do with the harsh physical reality of Athas. Athas is a kill or be killed kind of world, where the physically weak rarely have a real place. This class is for the weak ones that aren't willing to just acquiesce to the guy who is strong enough to carry the bigger stick. Since Dark Sun is also a very strongly psionic setting it seemed like there ought to be something to facilitate mental ascension besides the hated Psion Uncarnate (ok, maybe it's just me that hates it). When I read the MindLord proposal it made me a little more motivated to find some alternate means of achieving that state of mental energy (incorporeality). I mean, come on, are you telling me that all of the Mind Lords of the last sea either ate four manfiester levels for a different PrC or waited until they could manifest an epic transformation power?
I would provide you with some direction if I could, but to be brutally honest the only thing in the PrC that seems worthwhile is the idea behind it and the Prerequisites. The text for all of the abilities needs to be rewritten and their names all need to be changed.
Are you saying that the mechanic needs to be changed, or simply the way that it is described? And if it's the mechanic you have a problem with, what is the problem exactly? If it is the description, do you think it needs to be rewritten because it is somehow unclear, or you simply disapprove of the rhetoric?
I'm not sure why you are so obcessed with saving throws. I don't think I've ever seen a class with so many abilities that affect them.
As I explained above, the reason that everything seems to be oriented on saving throws is because that seemed to be the easiest way to design a mechanic which illustrates the class's psionic superiority over the minds and bodies of others, as well as the control that the character has been able to manifest over his or her own body. I considered one ability that would boost all three saving throws, but that really did seem excessive. Can you think of something other than saving throws that better represent what the mind and body?
Class skills: Think about these a bit. Why would a character who decides he has complete disdain for the physical be concerned with disguising his physical nature?
As for Empower Mind: how about Overwhelming Mind, or Overwhelming Presence? Maybe just Force of Mind or Force of Will.