Now this all got me thinking about what the true nature of magic in the DL world is. I arrived at the conclusion that quite simply magic is power. Both tremdously wonderful and constructive, as well as terrifying and destructive. So the idea that the wizards themselves who knew the nature of magic and its effects on the world intimately, would band together and attempt to regulate, in effect the arenas in which the power of magic would be used, doesn't seem so ridiculous after all. It seems to make sense that those who know what magic can really do, wouldn't just let any half cocked person go out and start blasting out magic missles and fireballs at the world. It seems all the more realistic that there would be some kind of governing body or council that would dictate the needs and the proper uses of magic, simply because if used incorrectly it has the potential to devastate the world and upset the balance that needs to be maintained in order for the continuation of life on Krynn.
In conclusion I object to the notion that the DL system of magic using is somehow disadvantageous to the players or the inhabitants of the world. I dont know much about the FR setting myself so I dont feel justified in critisizing how they do things, but DL seems to treat magic properly and recognize it for what it is. And that is again quite simply the height of all power. There that's the end of my silly rant. Sorry it was so lengthy but I felt I needed to get it off my chest. I'm intrested in what everyone else thinks about this issue though, so if anyone feels compelled to respond please do so.
She replied that its organzization was far to "simplistic" and that the notion of having wizards constrained to certain types of magic simply based on the color of the robe they wear and the phases of the moons they interpret was ridiculous.
Wizards are no more constrained in Dragonlance than they are in the Realms. The DLCS has school specialization requirements for the WoHS prestige class, but ToHS clarifies this stating that this is an option, and that one can be a generalist wizard too.
She also objected to the ridgid classification of everything magic related in the DL world into good, evil or neautral groupings, saying that the world didn't provide room for shades of grey.
How does she define "shades of grey"? I would think that neutrality would represent those grey areas.
Thing is, the structure of the WoHS is based very much on the moral axis alignment of D&D alignment. You could argue that your friend may have a problem with the alignment system in D&D moreso than the robes.
The beauty of the FR setting she said was that the theory of magic was that it was accesible to anyone with the skill and dedication required to practice it. There were no life or death tests, no heavy regulation, and no alignment restrictions. Summerizing everything she said that the difference between magic in the two settings was that FR was a "free and open" system, while DL was a "restrictive and closed" system.
Yes, the Realms has a "free and open" system. But honestly, it's too open. Everyone and their mother has a magic weapon, and magic is everywhere. Dragonlance has a different tone of magic, where it's more exotic. Magic isn't something you can aquire at the local mageware shop. It's something that is granted by the gods, something truly powerful and dangerous that not just any mortal can wield.
Your friend may want to look into the magic of Wild Sorcery and see how sorcerers work in Dragonlance. That's probably more up her alley.
Now this all got me thinking about what the true nature of magic in the DL world is. I arrived at the conclusion that quite simply magic is power. Both tremdously wonderful and constructive, as well as terrifying and destructive. So the idea that the wizards themselves who knew the nature of magic and its effects on the world intimately, would band together and attempt to regulate, in effect the arenas in which the power of magic would be used, doesn't seem so ridiculous after all. It seems to make sense that those who know what magic can really do, wouldn't just let any half cocked person go out and start blasting out magic missles and fireballs at the world. It seems all the more realistic that there would be some kind of governing body or council that would dictate the needs and the proper uses of magic, simply because if used incorrectly it has the potential to devastate the world and upset the balance that needs to be maintained in order for the continuation of life on Krynn.
A very good analogy.
You might even think of it in terms of nuclear power. It's very dangerous and destructive, but has the potential to do good as well. Yet we don't let every bloke who walks down the street have access to it!
In conclusion I object to the notion that the DL system of magic using is somehow disadvantageous to the players or the inhabitants of the world. I dont know much about the FR setting myself so I dont feel justified in critisizing how they do things, but DL seems to treat magic properly and recognize it for what it is. And that is again quite simply the height of all power. There that's the end of my silly rant. Sorry it was so lengthy but I felt I needed to get it off my chest. I'm intrested in what everyone else thinks about this issue though, so if anyone feels compelled to respond please do so.
Nah, it's all cool. Realms fans oftentimes feel the need to put down DL magic, oftentimes not understanding it fully.
I could counterargue that the Realms magic is too generic, too open to the public, and has no flavor. Only the introduction of the weave has given it flavor, and even at that...eh.
A Realms fan will counter that the Realms has all sorts of magic in it (i.e. gem magic). Thing is, you can have all sorts of magic in DL as well, just through the "lens" of Dragonlance. Want gem magic? Play a sorcerer who taps into the Realm of Enhancement. Want a nature mage or winter mage? You got the sylvan mage and winternorn PrC's from Towers of High Sorcery. Want shadow magic? Look no further than the Black Robes. And so on and so forth.
Not everyone will like Dragonlance's magic, and that's fine. To each their own. I just think people dismiss Dragonlance magic a little too early without really looking into the possibilities.
On a side note, it should be known that my friend objected not only to the magic system in DL but alos to game's epic tone, which she claimed forced players into "stereotypical" roles for adventuring, and also its treatment of some of its races such as kender and gnomes which she claimed "cannot be taken with any seriousness" and serve no real function in practical game terms, other than to provide comic relief and be made consistant with the DL book series. So all of this rumblin could just stem from the fact that she is just unhappy with the entire setting on a whole, as opposed to individual facets.
As for the remark about the Sorcerers in DL, I actually don't know much about them, or Wild Sorcery as opposed to High Sorcery, so I will have to read further about that.
Arcane magic and divine magic come in two forms each - the magic granted by the gods (cleric magic and High Sorcery) and the ambient magic of the world (Wild Sorcery and Mysticism). Cleric magic and Mysticism are both divine magic, while High Sorcery and Wild Sorcery are arcane magic. The difference is the source.
Wild Sorcery was at levels too low to use prior to the Chaos War. Afterwards, the energies of Chaos boosted it to levels that mortals could use.
At its basic core, Wild Sorcery can be seen as generic as any other arcane magic on any other world. Anyone can use it, and there isn't a group like the WoHS that police sorcerers. The WoHS are all concerned with sorcerers, and each of the orders has a different approach on how to deal with sorcerers.
On a side note, it should be known that my friend objected not only to the magic system in DL but alos to game's epic tone, which she claimed forced players into "stereotypical" roles for adventuring, and also its treatment of some of its races such as kender and gnomes which she claimed "cannot be taken with any seriousness" and serve no real function in practical game terms, other than to provide comic relief and be made consistant with the DL book series. So all of this rumblin could just stem from the fact that she is just unhappy with the entire setting on a whole, as opposed to individual facets.
Yeah, sounds like she's just not happy with the setting itself.
Part of the problem is that many kender and gnomes have been portrayed in a certain stereotypical light in the novels. This doesn't mean that a player character kender or gnome has to be stereotypical. For example, Age of Mortals has this nifty prestige class called a kender nightstalker that is basically a kender that talks to the dead.
Both kenders and gnomes can be shaped through certain themes. For example, the DL DM Screen has a kender in it that is sorta like Tas, save that she is focused on dragon-related items. She's curious - about dragons. Her maps all have dragon lairs on them. Likewise, gnomes can be shaped through their Life Quests. The most interesting example I've ever heard was a gnome whose Life Quest was to make a recipe that every race on Krynn would enjoy.
Stereotypes can exist in any setting. With Dragonlance, it's a little worse due to the way certain races are portrayed. With a little imagination, you can come up with some non-stereotypical ideas and have a great campaign.
The wizards of FR have no real guide, and no authority to police them, short of Mystra herself. Sure she could cut people off from the Weave, but in doing so would negate the doctrine of free will and probably lose her followers, the basis of a diety's power in Faerun today. And besides, how many times did that actually happen? So if a rogue wizard decided to use his powers to dominate, short of intrepid adventurers, what was in place to stop him? Nothing, really. You do that in Krynn and you'll have three orders of wizards breathing down your neck pretty quick. Magic isn't a right, after all, it's a gift. And that gift has to be regulated, otherwise you'll end up with a boatload of Raistlins and on the other extreme, Fizbans. The WoHS serve a purpose, one that should be reflected in all fantasy worlds in some capacity or another.
Of course, this does not stop one from acquiring enough power while within the HS ranks. Once you believe you can hold out against them, you can go rogue if you want, or you can continue within their walls. For all the supposedly limitations, it is actually a better system than the 'Train an apprentice, then turn him/her loose on the world.' approach.
let her know that 3x is very different.