1 = Amber and Ashes (Amber = Mina; Ashes = Chemosh)
2 = Amber and Iron (Don't know what the iron signifies)
3 = Amber and Blood (Don't know what the blood signifies)
2 = Amber and Iron (Don't know what the iron signifies)
Guessing it signifies war.
3 = Amber and Blood (Don't know what the blood signifies)
Guessing the Blood Sea. After all, that's where a certain tower is located. ;)
Guessing it signifies war.
Guessing the Blood Sea. After all, that's where a certain tower is located. ;)
Notice that Thakisis and the lady on the revised cover look alike. Maybe it's Mina dressed in Thakisis' clothing or something. Or maybe it is Thakisis in mortal form
That second cover is really fantastic. Is that a Stawicki piece? It seems directly influenced, at the very least, by the cover art from the Age of Mortals game sourcebook.
It was, but it was more of a placeholder illustration for the actual one. Quite often, the covers of these books that Amazon and other online vendors display are mock covers or placeholder covers, there just so that the vendor can have an image.
Cheers,
Cam
It was, but it was more of a placeholder illustration for the actual one. Quite often, the covers of these books that Amazon and other online vendors display are mock covers or placeholder covers, there just so that the vendor can have an image.
Cheers,
Cam
Looking at it closely.... The LAdy with the candle is Mina and the guy on her right is the former monk of Majere.
Looking at it closely.... The LAdy with the candle is Mina and the guy on her right is the former monk of Majere.
I thought it was Chemosh...
I thought it was Chemosh...
No, Chemosh wear all black....kinda like Ares from the Xena TV series.
Remember the monk is now wearing sea green. And dark red can blend into shadows just as well as solid black.
I would have to agree with Alio.
Remember the monk is now wearing sea green. And dark red can blend into shadows just as well as solid black.
Before he used to wear an orange/red robe....so they drew him what he looked like from the beginning of the book.
EDIT: Also, was Lord Soth in the War of Souls Trilogy?
Looking at the picture of Mina. I can see how the character Silvanoshei would "fall in love". Looks like Paladin is still alive somewhere during The Dark Disciple Trilogy. No one said he got killed or anything. Also, Ariaken is still alive in a Khas piece (lol). What do you guys think of the new death night, Krell or whatever his name is. I wonder if Dalamar is still alive during The Dark Disciple
EDIT: Also, was Lord Soth in the War of Souls Trilogy?
Looking at the picture of Mina. I can see how the character Silvanoshei would "fall in love". Looks like Paladin is still alive somewhere during The Dark Disciple Trilogy. No one said he got killed or anything. Also, Ariaken is still alive in a Khas piece (lol). What do you guys think of the new death night, Krell or whatever his name is. I wonder if Dalamar is still alive during The Dark Disciple
Hi, first time poster here, but I've been reading DL for a while now.
Yeah, Lord Soth was in the War of Souls Trilogy, but his role there was fairly minor. Mina offered him to lead the army of the dead, he refused and Takhisis destroyed him. That's about all there was of him in that trilogy.
As for Krell, well he's too dumb in my opinion to be a death knight. Also I'm kinda surprised that Krell killed Ariakan I was under the impression that Ariakan was killed fighting Chaos' minions.
As for Dalamar, well he should be alive, but the weird part is, that if he is alive then it begs the question why he was not in the Tower of Istar with Nuitari, since he should be the most powerful Black Robe of the time, and he was always loyal to Nuitari.
And as far as the titles of the books go, I'm not sure what Iron symbolizes, but Blood is probably either Sargonnas or his Minotaurs. I mean I know this trilogy is not written by Richard Khaak, but if you look at the Minotaur Wars trilogy all the titles there end with Blood so that's my reason for thinking that the third book might have something to do with the Minotaurs, perhaps Galdar might return to Mina?
Hi, first time poster here, but I've been reading DL for a while now.
Yeah, Lord Soth was in the War of Souls Trilogy, but his role there was fairly minor. Mina offered him to lead the army of the dead, he refused and Takhisis destroyed him. That's about all there was of him in that trilogy.
As for Krell, well he's too dumb in my opinion to be a death knight. Also I'm kinda surprised that Krell killed Ariakan I was under the impression that Ariakan was killed fighting Chaos' minions.
As for Dalamar, well he should be alive, but the weird part is, that if he is alive then it begs the question why he was not in the Tower of Istar with Nuitari, since he should be the most powerful Black Robe of the time, and he was always loyal to Nuitari.
And as far as the titles of the books go, I'm not sure what Iron symbolizes, but Blood is probably either Sargonnas or his Minotaurs. I mean I know this trilogy is not written by Richard Khaak, but if you look at the Minotaur Wars trilogy all the titles there end with Blood so that's my reason for thinking that the third book might have something to do with the Minotaurs, perhaps Galdar might return to Mina?
Ariaken is still alive... ad Paladin?
Also, remeber Amber and Ashes where Nuitari (NweeTari) holds Mina hostage and torments her basically. Seems like Nuitari has a similar personality as Raistlin. Also, regarding the Dalamar thing. Maybe Nuitari does not know because he assumed human form to reside in the tower.
Hi, first time poster here, but I've been reading DL for a while now.
Yeah, Lord Soth was in the War of Souls Trilogy, but his role there was fairly minor. Mina offered him to lead the army of the dead, he refused and Takhisis destroyed him. That's about all there was of him in that trilogy.
As for Krell, well he's too dumb in my opinion to be a death knight. Also I'm kinda surprised that Krell killed Ariakan I was under the impression that Ariakan was killed fighting Chaos' minions.
As for Dalamar, well he should be alive, but the weird part is, that if he is alive then it begs the question why he was not in the Tower of Istar with Nuitari, since he should be the most powerful Black Robe of the time, and he was always loyal to Nuitari.
And as far as the titles of the books go, I'm not sure what Iron symbolizes, but Blood is probably either Sargonnas or his Minotaurs. I mean I know this trilogy is not written by Richard Khaak, but if you look at the Minotaur Wars trilogy all the titles there end with Blood so that's my reason for thinking that the third book might have something to do with the Minotaurs, perhaps Galdar might return to Mina?
Welcome Eros. I am a relatively new poster here myself. However, I have read DL obsessively. (3 times each of Chronicles, Legends, DoFS, WoS, Soulforge.) I just finished Amber and Ashes the other day.
Yes, Soth defied the Queen, and paid for it.
Krell is just slimy, and surely not worthy of Soth's legacy. You would have to assume he will get his now from Zeboim with Rhys recovering Ariakis. (And how funny was the mental image of a giant mantis kicking his ***?)
I don't remember Krell from Ariakis' death. Ariakis was killed by the minions of Chaos as far as I can remember. (When Steel had his regiment in the basement.) Perhaps it's a story to be explained later?
I'm 99% sure Dalamar is alive. He was in Wizard's Conclave, which should be happening around the same time. Keep in mind though, Nuitari isn't going to favor Dalamar anymore. Dalamar is a heretic. He used dark sorcery while the cousins were gone. If it wasn't for Palin getting his life back, Dalamar wouldn't be breathing right now. I doubt Nuitari would trust Dalamar at this point anyway, given that Dalamar has never had reservations about turning his back on anyone or anything if it served his current need. Not to mention, if Dalamar suddenly disappeared, the Solinari and Lunitari would surely wonder why. They would immediately notice him missing, and since Nuitari is keeping Istar a secret, this would call some bad attention to the dark cousin's plans.
I won't even attempt to speculate on the book titles and thier meanings. Actually, who cares? As long as Margaret keeps her fingers typing, she could write about Mina's last trip to the bathroom, and I would be enthralled!
**War of Souls Spoiler***
Paladin=Paladine (I think. And yes, he still lives, but he is mortal now. The elf Valthonis.)
I don't think Nuitari is tormenting Mina. He is just holding on to her because she is useful to him. Think about it this way. Chemosh knows what he is up to. Although he believes his beloved dead, if he ever decided to turn around and notify the cousins about Nuitari, all the dark moon needs to do is show him his girlfriend and Chemosh shuts his mouth.
Ariaken is still alive... ad Paladin?
Also, remeber Amber and Ashes where Nuitari (NweeTari) holds Mina hostage and torments her basically. Seems like Nuitari has a similar personality as Raistlin. Also, regarding the Dalamar thing. Maybe Nuitari does not know because he assumed human form to reside in the tower.
Ariakan is not alive he's dead, it his soul that is stuck in the khas piece, paladin should be alive, but as to where he is I don't know.
Alio good point about Dalamar I forgot about him using dark sorcery.
And as for the titles well I guess we'll just find out when we read the books, which I can't wait for. So if anyone knows Margaret Weis personnally tell her to hurry up
Ariakan is not alive he's dead, it his soul that is stuck in the khas piece, paladin should be alive, but as to where he is I don't know.
Alio good point about Dalamar I forgot about him using dark sorcery.
And as for the titles well I guess we'll just find out when we read the books, which I can't wait for. So if anyone knows Margaret Weis personnally tell her to hurry up
Good point Eros. Ariakan is dead. I just tend to think of the dead as gone.
Hi, first time poster here, but I've been reading DL for a while now.
Yeah, Lord Soth was in the War of Souls Trilogy, but his role there was fairly minor. Mina offered him to lead the army of the dead, he refused and Takhisis destroyed him. That's about all there was of him in that trilogy.
As for Krell, well he's too dumb in my opinion to be a death knight. Also I'm kinda surprised that Krell killed Ariakan I was under the impression that Ariakan was killed fighting Chaos' minions.
As for Dalamar, well he should be alive, but the weird part is, that if he is alive then it begs the question why he was not in the Tower of Istar with Nuitari, since he should be the most powerful Black Robe of the time, and he was always loyal to Nuitari.
And as far as the titles of the books go, I'm not sure what Iron symbolizes, but Blood is probably either Sargonnas or his Minotaurs. I mean I know this trilogy is not written by Richard Khaak, but if you look at the Minotaur Wars trilogy all the titles there end with Blood so that's my reason for thinking that the third book might have something to do with the Minotaurs, perhaps Galdar might return to Mina?
I think I know what happened to Dalamar. It's in the side book called The wizards conclave or whatever it's called. That takes place during the age of mortals and so does the dark disciple. That is if you think that the DL books written by authors other than Weis and Hickman are canon. I think the only canon books are the books written by Weis and/or Hickman.
I think the only canon books are the books written by Weis and/or Hickman.
It's amazing how small some peoples minds are.
It's amazing how small some peoples minds are.
Pretty amazing, isn't it?
I'm 99% sure Dalamar is alive. He was in Wizard's Conclave, which should be happening around the same time. Keep in mind though, Nuitari isn't going to favor Dalamar anymore. Dalamar is a heretic. He used dark sorcery while the cousins were gone. If it wasn't for Palin getting his life back, Dalamar wouldn't be breathing right now. I doubt Nuitari would trust Dalamar at this point anyway, given that Dalamar has never had reservations about turning his back on anyone or anything if it served his current need. Not to mention, if Dalamar suddenly disappeared, the Solinari and Lunitari would surely wonder why. They would immediately notice him missing, and since Nuitari is keeping Istar a secret, this would call some bad attention to the dark cousin's plans.
Yes, Dalamar is alive and kicking; and trust me he still holds Nuitari's favor. Juergen is correct in referencing "The Wizard's Conclave", and in there Dalamar is still Nuitari's choice to be the head of the Black Robes, no matter whether he used sorcery or not. Take a gander at "TWC", it explains much regarding the current state of the Wizards of Krynn.
Maybe Nuitari does not know because he assumed human form to reside in the tower.
Nuitari hasn't become a human or taken human form in "A&A", it's his avatar and he is still in touch with all the goings on with regards to his wizards and cousins. Just because he's in the tower doesn't mean he's lost touch. He probably has other plans for Dalamar, which is why D isn't at the Blood Sea Tower. He's probably still reconstructing the Tower at Wayreth (again, take a look at "TWC").
Nuitari hasn't become a human or taken human form in "A&A", it's his avatar and he is still in touch with all the goings on with regards to his wizards and cousins.
Yes, all of the human-looking incarnations of the gods that you see in the books are their aspects. We go into this in Holy Orders of the Stars.
Cheers,
Cam
Back to topic: Iron represents the iron bars that are holding Mina captive in the tower of high sorcery. Weis stated this on the dragonlance forum. Now we just need to figure out what the blood means in Amber and Blood.
Do you think it's possible that Dalamar was a Black Robe before Raistlin? Who was the head of the order of the Black Robes during Chronicles? I know Par Salion was the head of the Red Robes. The only book I've read in Chronicles was Dragons of Spring Dawning. This was 10 years ago, so I vaguely remember stuff. I've started Dragons of Autumn Twilight a few days ago (on Chapter 7).
Oh well.
Dalamar's claim to fame was being a spy, and I think his promised reward was some sort of position of power within the conclave, and becoming master of the Tower of Wayreth. After Justarius kicked the bucket during a raid on the Knights of the Thorn, Dalamar became head of the Conclave. Sort of a battlefield promotion, I guess.
I know Par Salion was the head of the Red Robes.
FYI, that should read "Par Salian was head of the White Robes."
Without having any books in front of me or anything, I want to say that LaDonna was the head of the black robes during Chronicles. She was a very neat character, and I kinda wish she had been fleshed out a little bit more.
She'll be appearing in an upcoming sourcebook, together with Par-Salian and Justarius. And yes, she was definitely the head of the Order of Black Robes during the War of the Lance and several years later.
Cheers,
Cam
FYI, that should read "Par Salian was head of the White Robes."
in Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Raistlin states that Par Salian, head of my order gave these eyes to me so that I see everything in a dieing state. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but Raistlin was never a White Robe. Or was he?
Par Salian was also the head of all the orders (head of the conclave).
Without having any books in front of me or anything, I want to say that LaDonna was the head of the black robes during Chronicles. She was a very neat character, and I kinda wish she had been fleshed out a little bit more.
Oh well.
Dalamar's claim to fame was being a spy, and I think his promised reward was some sort of position of power within the conclave, and becoming master of the Tower of Wayreth. After Justarius kicked the bucket during a raid on the Knights of the Thorn, Dalamar became head of the Conclave. Sort of a battlefield promotion, I guess.
I guess you didn't understand my question. Was Dalamar anything but a Black Robe? Was he ever Red or White? Dalamar was alive well before Raistlin, so was he a Black Robe before Raistlin was a Black Robe or not?
in Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Raistlin states that Par Salian, head of my order gave these eyes to me so that I see everything in a dieing state. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but Raistlin was never a White Robe. Or was he?
In this case he's talking about the order of wizards in general. It's well-established that Par-Salian is a White Robed wizard. There are a number of things in Chronicles which are not entirely clear or were at that time somewhat undeveloped - Knights of the Sword with spellcasting, for instance, never showed up in the original trilogy.
Cheers,
Cam
I guess you didn't understand my question. Was Dalamar anything but a Black Robe? Was he ever Red or White? Dalamar was alive well before Raistlin, so was he a Black Robe before Raistlin was a Black Robe or not?
Yes Dalamar was always a black robe.
in Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Raistlin states that Par Salian, head of my order gave these eyes to me so that I see everything in a dieing state. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but Raistlin was never a White Robe. Or was he?
Par Salian was also the head of all the orders (head of the conclave).
I DID correct you because you were wrong, and you answered your own statement (as does Cam below); when Raist was saying that he was referring to Par-Salian as the head of all orders, and as such "the head of my order". You will never see Par-Salian written about as anything other than a white robe, and quite a powerful one at that.
In this case he's talking about the order of wizards in general. It's well-established that Par-Salian is a White Robed wizard...
In the original chronicles its
White: Par Salian also the head of the conclave
Red: Justarius
Black: La Donna
Originally red then becomes black: Raistlan never a head of an order
After the legends things change
White: Dunbar Mastersmate
Red: Justarius head of the conclave
Black: Dalamar chosen to succeed LaDonna because of his work spying on Raistlan
Other Notables:
White: Palin never head of an order
Chaos War Wizards:
White: Dunbar Mastersmate (as fas as I can tell)
Red: Justarius dies and is replaced by ?
Black: Dalamar (and he becomes the head of the conclave which puts his whole tantrum in the Wizards Conclave as a mistake made be someone. SPoiler: In TWC Dalamar claims he never was the head and really wanted it, but yet it clearly states in Dragons of Summer Flame that he is.)
Age of Mortals:
White: Coryn
Red: Jenna (sidenote Justarius's daughter) also head of conclave
Black: Dalamar
they are others I haven't mentioned such as Fistandulas(B), Fizban(W) (yes I know he's really Paladine), Magius(W), and countless others who I have just forgotten. I hope that clears up any confusion and if anyone can tell me who the red wizard who succeeds Justarius I would be greatful.
they are others I haven't mentioned such as Fistandulas(B), Fizban(W) (yes I know he's really Paladine), Magius(W), and countless others who I have just forgotten. I hope that clears up any confusion and if anyone can tell me who the red wizard who succeeds Justarius I would be greatful.
So according to that then of course you forgot to mention the 3 moon gods.
So Par Salian was always White, huh? Are you sure he was never a Red during the time of the Test then converted to White. Mages/Wizards choose sometimes choose Red because they are unsure of themselves whether or not to be White or Black.
So Par Salian was always White, huh? Are you sure he was never a Red during the time of the Test then converted to White.
No, he wasn't.
Cheers,
Cam
What do the 3 Robes draw their magic from and what decides them. Can a wizard switch robes frequently.
Other Robes:
I know there are also Grey Robes but what about Green or Blue? Silver Robes?? Gold Robes??? etc.
Also any person in Dragonlance can use magic until level 3, then they must take the test or move onto some other field of employment. I do not remember if it is in the new sourcebook or not, but the boxed set of old and materials of old all stated this.
Any person can switch allegiances in the robes if they change their alignment. I am not sure if the order has any say in it or not.
Also any person in Dragonlance can use magic until level 3, then they must take the test or move onto some other field of employment. I do not remember if it is in the new sourcebook or not, but the boxed set or old and materials of old all stated this.
Yup, it's in there. The Orders don't much care about dabblers. Once you get serious about it they take an interest.
Originally Posted by Juergen2005
I guess you didn't understand my question.
I thought I was answering this question:
Originally Posted by Juergen2005
Who was the head of the order of the Black Robes during Chronicles?
Sorry for the confusion.
Some of the confusion about what robes Raistlin wore comes from this. Typically as a very beginning student, one wears the color of the Mage who teaches you as a tribute to one's teacher. Raistlin's Teacher (the name escapes me) was a White Robe (a very young pre-Test and War of the Lance Raistlin is pictured wearing White Robes in WotL book). At his test Raistlin was given the Red Robes, and then later turned to Black.
Someone already answered this, but Dalamar was a Dark Elf, BECAUSE he was always a Black Robe.
Someone already answered this, but Dalamar was a Dark Elf, BECAUSE he was always a Black Robe.
Actually, if you want to get technical, Dalamar was a "Dark Elf" because he was cast out of the Silvanesti society for practicing other than "white magic". He practiced in secret as he was from House Servitor (or however that is stated) and wasn't supposed to use Magic. He found ecstasy in the black magic and so utilized them in his experiments. He was found out and cast out of Silvanost, thus making him a "Dark Elf"; any elf who is cast out is a "Dark Elf" including Alhanna Starbreeze (the previous princess of Silvanost). The color robe he wears has nothing to do with the tag of "dark elf".
The three robes draw their power from the three gods of magic Solinari (white), Lunitaria (red), Nuitari (black). After the chaos war certain mages were able to tap into the wild natural magic (some may argue that they really recieved the power from Takhisis) and become sorcerors. The Grey Robes were the magicians of Takhisis and recieved their power from her. To my knowledge their were no other colors. The only other class of wizard was the renegade class but they are supposed to be hunted down down by the conclave for illegal use of sorcery.
Any person can switch allegiances in the robes if they change their alignment. I am not sure if the order has any say in it or not.
The wizards draw their magic from the moons, not the Gods themselves. The moons phase regulates the intensity of their power (a New Moon doesn't provide as much power as a Full Moon). The Night of the Eye, which occurs once every 8 years (IIRC), is a night when all 3 moons are full and come into alignment to create what looks to be an "Eye in the sky" Black over Red over White. This is when all 3 Orders are at their most powerful (even more so than on a full moon night). There is very detailed info on this in "The Wizard's Conlave".
Brown robes are the renegades, they use magic from all 3 orders and are considered extremely wild and dangerous. As such, they are hunted down by Conclave Wizards and either killed or brought before the Conclave for justice.
Gray robes are actually Knights of Takhisis (now Knights of Neraka or Dark Knights) and, as stated, were granted powers from Tak herself. Although, now that she's no longer with us, I don't know how that works; I know that some turned permanently to the wild magic and became sorcerers (not sure if all of them did now that magic is back on Krynn again).
A persons robes change color of their own volition if a character's actions and use of spells moves them on the "scale" more towards one color. Raistlin's robes changed with he came to the realization that a part of Fisti was still in him and he chose to follow a path of darkness to fulfill Fisti's "destiny" to become the Master of Past and Present. Some say Raist became Fisti, I belive he overcame and destroyed the essence of Fisti and just used the name as a form of intimidation and name recognition.
OK, enough rambling, on with the show... :D
The wizards draw their magic from the moons, not the Gods themselves.
Aren't the moons the gods if they are not, then why did they disappear at the end of Dragons of Summer Flame. Also in Dragons of Summer Flame the gods place the blame on Lunitari who the gem stolen from her. The story of how the Greygem escaped was the gnomes built a ladder to the red moon and took it. To me this means that the gods of magic are the moons themselves. Perhaps I am reading this the wrong way.
Dalamar is not at the Blood Sea Tower because the tower is a secret and it would be very suspicious if Dalamar just up and disappeared, especially as he is the head of the Black Robes. Just think-Dalamar goes to tower and disappears, but no new head of black is elected - would look suspicious. This is not to say that he does not know about the tower - I mean come on he is the chosen of Nuitari.
Secondly - The gods of magic and the moons of magic are one and the same. (unless someone changed history-again!!!). All focused arcane magic comes from the moons period. However WoHS have a closer relation with the gods and can therefore be affected by the gods (hence denied spells and such), renegades are not affected by either the moons or by the gods of magic (don't quite make sense to me either but that the explaination). If renegades were suseptible to the power of the gods of magic then WoHS would not have to hunt them down. We have already been told that Renegades prior to the Chaos war are not sorcerors (simply because the class did not exist before 3E) because Chaos magic was not available until then (even though it was there way back before the orders were established). Think of the moons as water faucets that are always on, WoHS have spigets that are controlled by the gods of magic and can therefore be turned off by the gods. Renegades (non-sorcerors) can access the water faucet because it cannot be turned off, so wizards that were never part of the orders and ex-WoHS have effectively no spigets to be controlled by the gods.
"Dabblers" are those than can only cast up to 2nd level arcane spells. Typically (i.e. if you do it the way the Conclave wants it) when mechanically the mage is 4th lvl and has the xp for 5th (1st lvl to cast 3rd lvl spells) the mage takes his test where his or her performance (and tendencies) dictate the color robe. I'd think most of the time there are not too many surprises.
Some of the confusion about what robes Raistlin wore comes from this. Typically as a very beginning student, one wears the color of the Mage who teaches you as a tribute to one's teacher. Raistlin's Teacher (the name escapes me) was a White Robe (a very young pre-Test and War of the Lance Raistlin is pictured wearing White Robes in WotL book). At his test Raistlin was given the Red Robes, and then later turned to Black.
Someone already answered this, but Dalamar was a Dark Elf, BECAUSE he was always a Black Robe.
Oh ok, so Par Salian was his teacher when Raistlin was a White Robe. The reason he chose the black arts was to gain more power faster.
Also, can a wizard/mage just wear a robe of any color and still be aligned to one god? What if he or she shows allegiance to Solinari and Nuitari, but not Lunitari. Is this possible? Can one practice good magic and wear black robes just because he or she likes the color of black? Or any other color like Blue or Green?
The Grey robes are the Knights of the Thorn.
Also, can a wizard/mage just wear a robe of any color and still be aligned to one god?
They can probably get away with wearing whatever they like, but most wizards actually care about their Order, so they wear their Order's colors (whether it's robes, a loose sash and dashing mariner's pants, a long gown with a shawl, etc). Wearing the other Order's colors would be a great way to get in serious trouble, though.
What if he or she shows allegiance to Solinari and Nuitari, but not Lunitari. Is this possible? Can one practice good magic and wear black robes just because he or she likes the color of black? Or any other color like Blue or Green?
You can't have allegiance to more than one god. You really don't want to be wearing black robes if you're in the Order of White Robes. Green robes would be okay outside of the Towers, but you're aligned to an Order for a reason, and flying in the face of that is not just frowned upon, it's rude.
Cheers,
Cam
Paladine in disguise (Fizban) wore green robes sometimes.
Oh ok, so Par Salian was his teacher when Raistlin was a White Robe. The reason he chose the black arts was to gain more power faster.
Par Salian wasn't Raistlin's teacher, it was Theobold or something or other. Because of what he did in his Test (and what was in his heart) he was given the Red robes. He was never really a White robe, one is only a Robed wizard after the Test. He wore them out of "respect" for his teacher. Like you said, he took the black robes to gain power quicker (and other reasons).
Par Salian wasn't Raistlin's teacher, it was Theobold or something or other. Because of what he did in his Test (and what was in his heart) he was given the Red robes. He was never really a White robe, one is only a Robed wizard after the Test. He wore them out of "respect" for his teacher. Like you said, he took the black robes to gain power quicker (and other reasons).
Raist wore white robes because his sponsor (the guy paying for him to learn magic), Antimodes, was a white robe.
Would it be possible (in the game) to wear the above mentioned colors?
And yes, while Antimodes was Raistlin's sponsor, I think he wore it, as was the tradition, for his teacher. I'd like to think he got some satisfaction out of wearing them also as a tribute to Antimodes, because Raistlin had respect for Antimodes, but not for his teacher.
This is why mages like Raistlin and Fisty weren't stopped by the gods of magic. In short they aren't like Mystra, the can't just snap their fingers and say "you can't cast magic smart guy!" Wizards aren't clerics of the gods of magic. Just my two cents.
Also, Fizban temporarily cured Raistlin's cough, mutturing words like, ".....Fistandant.....now is that the time..."
Strange, huh......
The gods of magic did have domains (or spheres of influence) before the advent of third edition. They also had clerics who were required to become Wizards before becoming clerics (5th level Wiz if I remember the ToTL 2E correctly). Now if we do not forget everything that has been written in the past (as far as game materials) then it stands to reason that gods of magic have the ability to grant domains and have clerics but simply choose not to do so because of the current state of affairs of magic. But as with so much else in 3E-DL we are expected to just simply accept the changes that have been made not only to the history of Krynn but also to the way things are run simply because the owners (of the franchise) say so.
Slightly off topic some more... Since Paladine is an elf do you think Mishakal is an elf as well? I know Thakisis was human. Speaking of Thakisis. How many dragons/dragon overlords did she kill. I know she killed Skie and maybe Cyan.
1. The gods are gods. They aren't members of any race, although they may appear as any race they like when they manifest before mortals.
2. Note how Takhisis is spelled.
Cheers,
Cam
1. The gods are gods. They aren't members of any race, although they may appear as any race they like when they manifest before mortals.
2. Note how Takhisis is spelled.
Cheers,
Cam
So does the word Takhisis have a meaning? I don't see any resemblance. Did she kill any other dragons?
Also, yes the gods manifest themselves as avatars, just like in the Hebrew bible, the Vedas, and various other religious books.
http://www.dragonlanceforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-222.html
The prison cart scene. Do you think that Fizban took on the image of Fistandantilus (meaning Fizban looks like Fistandantilus) and that's why Raistlin got scared?
Also, why didn't Fizban permanently heal Raistlin's cough? Hypothetically speaking Raistlin could have been Fizban's apprentice and keep the neutral colors instead of turning to the Black Robes.
So does the word Takhisis have a meaning? I don't see any resemblance. Did she kill any other dragons?
I'm just correcting your spelling.
Also, yes the gods manifest themselves as avatars, just like in the Hebrew bible, the Vedas, and various other religious books.
Right. In Dragonlance, they aren't limited to any one form, so asking whether Mishakal is also an elf is like asking whether ice is always in the shape of a block from your freezer ice tray.
Cheers,
Cam
Regarding wizards etc...
http://www.dragonlanceforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-222.html
The prison cart scene. Do you think that Fizban took on the image of Fistandantilus (meaning Fizban looks like Fistandantilus) and that's why Raistlin got scared?
Also, why didn't Fizban permanently heal Raistlin's cough? Hypothetically speaking Raistlin could have been Fizban's apprentice and keep the neutral colors instead of turning to the Black Robes.
No, he is Fizban. It wasn't actually Raistlin reacting to Fizban, it is Fistandantilus. Old Fisty was trying to take the opportunity at Raist's weakness to take his share of the bargain made at Raistlin's test. Fizban tells Fisty that it is not the time for him to do it.
As far as not healing his cough, there was no reason, or right for Fizban to do it. Not to mention, a wizard casting healing spells at a time when there weren't supposed to be any clerics (besides Goldmoon) would be a tad suspicious no? Fizban was there to guide the companions on the path to defeating Takhisis, not actually do it himself, otherwise it is all-out war in the heavens.
Raist wouldn't have been Fizban's apprentice. Fizban was simply an avatar, and not one for any of the moons. Besides, who would want to learn fireball from Fizban? Would you even survive the lesson? ;)
No, he is Fizban. It wasn't actually Raistlin reacting to Fizban, it is Fistandantilus. Old Fisty was trying to take the opportunity at Raist's weakness to take his share of the bargain made at Raistlin's test. Fizban tells Fisty that it is not the time for him to do it.
As far as not healing his cough, there was no reason, or right for Fizban to do it. Not to mention, a wizard casting healing spells at a time when there weren't supposed to be any clerics (besides Goldmoon) would be a tad suspicious no? Fizban was there to guide the companions on the path to defeating Takhisis, not actually do it himself, otherwise it is all-out war in the heavens.
Raist wouldn't have been Fizban's apprentice. Fizban was simply an avatar, and not one for any of the moons. Besides, who would want to learn fireball from Fizban? Would you even survive the lesson? ;)
LOL @ the fireball thing. That always made me laugh where he "forgets" the spells. Back to the robes thing. Even though Ariakis was a cleric for Thakisis he did wear the Purple Robes like a magic user. Also, wouldn't his son, Ariaken be a Demi-God? I think that is why his soul is still alive in a Khas piece. Wasn't Raistlin's mother a White Robe? As for Dalamar, isn't he old and decrepid? I liked how Dalamar respected Raistlin in Dragons of Summer Flames even though Raistlin was practically nothing without his magic.
I'm surprised they don't have the book cover art for Amber and Iron yet. I wonder who's going to be on it? Chemosh hopefully. Or Nuitari?
The book won't be out for quite Spring/Summer of next year, the cover won't be out for some time.
Referring to earlier in the post about Nuitari not favoring Dalamar for being a sorcerer...how many people were sorcerers that were wizards before and are back to being wizards? I'd say all wizards in the new Age of Mortals were sorcerers previously, since being a wizard takes years of study (unless your name is Coryn) and those years haven't passed yet for any new students to have the opportunity to graduate their school and take the Test.
Ariakas was a wizard of Takhisis, not a cleric.
A wizard could wear gold, platinum, whatever colored robes they wanted, as long as they're not in the Tower for official business.
Takhisis also helped kill Malys.
Renegades are not "brown robes" so to speak. There is no brown robe order of renegades running around, a renegade wears whatever they want to, but if he's a smart renegade, then he would wear white, red, or black as a disguise in case his magic is spotted by someone..
Enough from me..
Actually the gods of magic do have more power than that Ares as is displayed in Souldforge with that black robe who is misusing her magic and Nuitari cuts her off. Raistlin and Fisty both were black robes, but after awhile they left the order behind. There was no "official" ousting of them but they were essentially renegades because their actions placed other wizards at risk if theit were found out.
The gods of magic did have domains (or spheres of influence) before the advent of third edition. They also had clerics who were required to become Wizards before becoming clerics (5th level Wiz if I remember the ToTL 2E correctly). Now if we do not forget everything that has been written in the past (as far as game materials) then it stands to reason that gods of magic have the ability to grant domains and have clerics but simply choose not to do so because of the current state of affairs of magic. But as with so much else in 3E-DL we are expected to just simply accept the changes that have been made not only to the history of Krynn but also to the way things are run simply because the owners (of the franchise) say so.
Well, I don't recall a black robe being cut off in the soulforge, I do remember her getting in a crapload of trouble then getting killed by villagers, though. However on your last statement.. Amen brother, amen.
No, Verminaard was her cleric, Ariakas was her wizard. His stats are in the War of the Lance sourcebook.
Yes, Ariakas was the master of the Knight of the Thorn (grey robe). He's pretty much like the Shao Kahn of DragonLance.
No, Verminaard was her cleric, Ariakas was her wizard. His stats are in the War of the Lance sourcebook.
Yes. Ariakas passed his test at the tower of high sorcery and became a Black Robe. A weak Black Robe compared to Raistlin and Dalamar. But before Raistling and Dalamar became Black Robes, Ariakas was the most powerful looks like (just read it in DoSP). Also, Raistlin states that he is the only White and Red Robe on Ansalon except for Par Salian.
"She angered her god, however. Nuitari abadoned her to her fate. Whatever defensive spells she tried to cast fizzled."
"He is not one to permit the frivolous use of his gifts," said Par-Salian in stern and solemn tones.
Sounds an awful lot like a god who had punished a wayward follower. Hmmmm...
I laughed at this here too:
By mid afternoon the groups was cheerless and dispirited-even Tasslehoff who had violently argued with Fizban over directions to Godshome. This was all the more frustrating to Tanis since it was obvious that neither of them knew where they were. (Fizban, in fact, was caught holding the map upside down)...
LOL
Ares, here is the page to look at in the soulforge pg. 27.
"She angered her god, however. Nuitari abadoned her to her fate. Whatever defensive spells she tried to cast fizzled."
"He is not one to permit the frivolous use of his gifts," said Par-Salian in stern and solemn tones.
Sounds an awful lot like a god who had punished a wayward follower. Hmmmm...
hmmm...indeed. That breaches system so bad that either there was more going on than what we know (or care) or it was a flub on the continuity. After all, if the three cousins give magic like divine to a cleric, like addmittedly some newer recourses hint at, then the concept of a renegade becomes very hard to explain. Something like "they transcended the order" or something flimsy like that. very peculiar, thanks for posting!
That breaches system so bad that either there was more going on than what we know (or care) or it was a flub on the continuity.
If it was written by someone other than Margaret Weis we might be able to dismiss it as writers discretion (except tracy of course).
Personally, anything that is written is cannon provided it fits with what has been previously written by Weis or Hickman. Anything written, collaborated or edited (like the anthologies books) by either of these two authors is cannon IMO.
No as far as the Star Wars books, I heard somewhere that all SW books must be approved by the man (Mr. Lucas) himself before being printed. So yes I bellieve Luke became a Sith. Just watching RoTJ and I thought he was going to go, if Darth had been anybody besides dear old dad, and Luke would have beheaded him.
As far as Star Wars, now this is quite OT, but the official answer is that Lucas himself has said, if it didn't happen in the movies, it isn't canon. As far as I know he has to approve everything Star Wars related (video games, novels, etc.) However, regarless of his approval, if he didn't write it in his own words, it is not official.
Now what happened to discussing the Dark Disciple?
Here is something I am hoping to see in the Dark Disciple books- the return of the Dark Queen and Paladine- if not in this serise then some time in the near future- perhaps Mina is able to kill the Death God (cannot recall name right now) becasue she finds out he has betrayed her and take his essence and put it into her Queen's body- raising her up as a kinda undead version of her old self- like a five-headed dracolich. Of course, then Paladine would be able to come back too- to preserve the balance.
You know I had held out hope for the same sort of idea, though I was thinking maybe Mina could somehow trick Chemosh into raising Takhisis. However, from the boards over at DL.com, this is extremely unlikely to happen.
I would really like to see the return of Takhisis, but I have an ever sinking feeling that this will never happen. It seems the sides of this argument are clearly divided. There is one side, who like us, would like to see the Dark Queen make a return (I mean she is one of the coolest evil figures ever.) The other side, however, is adamant that they will never return to DL if she were to come back. (From what I understand Margaret Weis is on that side of the argument, so that pretty much kills any chances Takhisis has of returning.)
I guess what I am really looking for is Paladine to come back to head the gods of good again.
As far as Mina making an effort to bring back the Queen, chances are, it wouldn't happen.
Show
Mina admits to herself in A&A that she was doing what she did for her own glory. It was not about Takhisis in Mina's heart. She did what she did because it won admiration for her, not for Takhisis. She proclaimed all in the name of the god during the WoS, but in the end, it was all about Mina.
I would be willing to bet money that in the end she will asend to godhood- at the cost of another god, most likely Chemosh.
I am also hoping that Raistlin will come back as a power in Krynn- I do not care whose side he is on really- I could see him doing something to either rebuild one of the other Towers or reclaiming his old one that is now in Nightlund.
Raisltin tricks the three gods into giving him all the power.
This leaves 5 good, 5 bad, and 6 Neutral.
Spoiler
Majere should really be a neutral god (at least as he is depicted in Amber and Ashes) as he does not want his monk to get involved (and it seems to be a tenet of the monkhood).
Mishakel should be a neutral god as well as she insists that her clerics heal anyone. Yeah she is against Chemosh but this does not necesarily make her good. If it did then Chislev would be good too as I am sure she hates to see the normal cycle of life disrupted by Undead.
That would leave 3 Good, 9 Neutral, and 5 Evil, (Raisltin would be neutral as all he cares about is the magic).
Also, Raistlin himslef states that with Ariakas and Thakisis gone he will become all powerful. So that gave it away right there.
Also Raistlin was not the most powerful magic user on Krynn. Ariakas was the most powerful Black Robe, until Raistlin used Tanis to kill Ariakas.
Would have been cool to watch Ariakas destroy Raistlin....
Also, The Takhisis thing. She's back home in the Abyss I assume, so she moght gather followers in the Abyss and try something. Also, there has to be a balance so if two dark gods die then 2 light gods have to die or become mortal. This will lead to less dark and light gods meaning the Gilean will ultimately become the supreme ruler thus making the evil and good gods have to team up and defeat gilean and his neutral gods.
Also, The Takhisis thing. She's back home in the Abyss I assume, so she moght gather followers in the Abyss and try something.
No, she's really gone.
Cheers,
Cam
No, she's really gone.
Cheers,
Cam
Thanks for ruining any last vestige of hope I had Cam! ;)
Also, when does Palladine wear the green robes? During Legends or after?
Once Raistlin starts wearing his black robes he becomes Fistandantilus according to Palladine. I guess he becomes Raistlin again when he loses his magic and gets his cough back.
Before the Test, he was Raistlin; after the Test, he was Raistlin with a litttle help (Fisty); during the Legends, he was Raistlin with the knowledge and power of Fisty absorbed; when he returned in DoSF, he was Raistlin with the knowledge and power of Fisty abosrbed, though with his access to that power and his own (power) blocked
According to the War of the Lance Anthology, when Tas and Fizban head off from Huma's Tomb he is wearing green robes, so during the War of the Lance.
Before the Test, he was Raistlin; after the Test, he was Raistlin with a litttle help (Fisty); during the Legends, he was Raistlin with the knowledge and power of Fisty absorbed; when he returned in DoSF, he was Raistlin with the knowledge and power of Fisty abosrbed, though with his access to that power and his own (power) blocked
so at the end of DoSD he could be wearing the green robes since they don't really say at the end. Also...
Caramon says that he's different but yet not different. He is....
"Fistandantilus." Says Fizban. The master of past and present just how the prophecy fortells.
The thing about Fistandantilus is probably due to the fact that this was early DL. From what I understand, the success wasn't planned on, so I guess that would lend to the "ignorance" of the events of Legends. As far as I know, Legends wasn't planned when Chronicles was completed, so there would be a chance of info not fitting congrously. Not that big a deal really. Raist absorbed Fisty, not much else to it. ;)
he probably dawned the green robes when Raist dawned the Black Robes. Notice how in the painting the green robes are almost black. Like a really dark green...
Once again I really think that you are trying to make a connection where one does not exist. I have one thing to say about the green robe issue- ARTISTIC EXPRESSION- nothing more, nothing less.
There is no connection to the timing of events. And even if in one of the books Fizban did have green robes on- what difference would it make- he is not one of the three gods of magic, nor it he a wizard that has taken the Test- He is A GOD- he could have his avart wear pink robes with purple pok-a-dots and it would only mean that he had bad taste in clothing and nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the dressing habits of mortals nor with the events that were happening in the world of Krynn.
Once again I really think that you are trying to make a connection where one does not exist. I have one thing to say about the green robe issue- ARTISTIC EXPRESSION- nothing more, nothing less.
There is no connection to the timing of events. And even if in one of the books Fizban did have green robes on- what difference would it make- he is not one of the three gods of magic, nor it he a wizard that has taken the Test- He is A GOD- he could have his avart wear pink robes with purple pok-a-dots and it would only mean that he had bad taste in clothing and nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the dressing habits of mortals nor with the events that were happening in the world of Krynn.
I'm not comparing anything. It's just an observation.