This fine hardback can be yours for the mere price of $60 American. Are you going to "rush right out?"
IF you already have all the Dungeon adventures that make up 90% plus of the hardback, you have scant reason to pay $60 for a hardback version, unless you just like the feel of a heavy book and have no better use for your $60.
IF as a Greyhawker you are thinking, "Well, its GH so I must buy it," you may want to think again. It is Greyhawk only in the most forced way. Absent Paizo putting Cauldron on the 4 part GH map, there would be almost no claim to "Greyness." I'd hold out for Castle Zagyg; it will be "Greyer" than the Shackled City Hardback.
IF you do not have the Dungeon adventures AND if you are not concerned about "Greyness," you may still want to pause before purchasing the Shackled City Hardback. At $60, it is not cheap. You could probably find the individual issues cheaper used or discounted. Like the commercial says, "What's in your wallet?" If you've got it to spend and nothing else grabs you . . .
I am taking a pass for all of the above reasons. But YMMV.
http://paizo.com/download/shackledCity/preview-statblocks.pdf
If you play in Greyhawk, use Greyhawk deities and/or are looking to start a new campaign, this book might be a good purchase for you. It's a full-length 1st- through 20th-level adventure/campaign book.
I wouldn't waste time and money tracking down and buying out-of-print magazine back issues when I can have a convenient, single, durable hardcover that contains a refined version of the same content. If you think about it, $60 would barely only buy six WotC 3e adventure modules that aren't even tied together, and this book presents 12 adventures as one campaign.
If you want to nitpick at whether it's canon or true to the "greyness" of Greyhawk, feel free, but don't underestimate the overal value of the book itself. It's not a novel, it's a D&D campaign. You can always add in your own "greyness."
--Ghul
I would be remiss if I didn't mention the phenomenal quality of your work at Canonfire. Excellent work.
--Ghul
Where in the Flanaess is the Shackled City, out of curiosity?
Down in the Hellfurnaces near Jeklea Bay, south of the Hold of the Sea Princes IIRC.
If you . . . are looking to start a new campaign, this book might be a good purchase for you. It's a full-length 1st- through 20th-level adventure/campaign book. . . . If you want to nitpick at whether it's canon or true to the "greyness" of Greyhawk, feel free, but don't underestimate the overal value of the book itself.
Yes. What Amaril said. I am going to be starting my new Greyhawk campaign using Shackled City HC even though I have most of the Dungeon issues. I will add some "grey" wrinkles into it. I will conform and tie-in character origins. I will tweak NPC personalities and sometime objectives when necessary. There is intrigue and adventure and a fun quest ahead in this, and I look forward to posting some of the events of the campaign at the Paizo site. Cheers!
--Ghul
I won't disagree with the above. Its a 1st-20th Level adventure in a urban (if quirky) setting. If that is what you are looking for, it is the only such in town. While Mongoose is releasing their 1st-30th Level drow series for $90-$120 all told, it is not primarily or even substantially an urban campaign. Shattered City is probably the premier "adventure path" that will take characters through the levels.
For myself, it is not worth $60.
BTW, GVD --
I would be remiss if I didn't mention the phenomenal quality of your work at Canonfire. Excellent work.
--Ghul
Thank you very much. I think Canonfire has a lot of terrific article submitters and articles. Canonfire could always use more, however. Anyone who would like to submit to Canonfire would, I am certain, be made welcome.
... the hardback is a revised and more streamlined compilation of the individual adventures with fixes and a tighter plot path. It also has new content and a new adventure not present in the original. Another bonus is that some of the NPCs have stat blocks with progressive levels as can be seen by the online preview at Paizo's site.
If you play in Greyhawk, use Greyhawk deities and/or are looking to start a new campaign, this book might be a good purchase for you. It's a full-length 1st- through 20th-level adventure/campaign book.
I wouldn't waste time and money tracking down and buying out-of-print magazine back issues when I can have a convenient, single, durable hardcover that contains a refined version of the same content. If you think about it, $60 would barely only buy six WotC 3e adventure modules that aren't even tied together, and this book presents 12 adventures as one campaign.
If you want to nitpick at whether it's canon or true to the "greyness" of Greyhawk, feel free, but don't underestimate the overall value of the book itself... You can always add in your own "greyness."
I think Amaril articulated my feelings on this issue very well. I'll just quote him and say I agree with his sentiments whole heartedly. His comments suggest strong reasons why one might want to get Shackled City. If you want to save some money, use other online retailers (whose names I am not sure I can mention here).
I'd also suggest that people take a look at the Shackled City compilation and make an individual choice. While I appreciate comments and reviews from others on the Internet, I think the individual should be his or her own judge. Pick it up, thumb through it, and decide on your own.
I think the Shackled City harcover is fantastic. And, I would still buy it even if it was not, to support Paizo and to extract the elements I like, if not the whole. Something I do with many, many products.
Happy gaming.
what i dont get is why the hell adimarchus fell in love w/ a dude. oh, and how they can use the 'energy' of a volcano to open a portal to some other plan so that they can have a bunch of slaves
-Besides, maybe Paizo could do a kind of *Best of* compilation for each setting...
Being no Dungeon-reader, I hope this sells and we se the some more compilations of that kind in the future. Wasn't there an Istivin - adventure path some time earlier?
The Istivin adventure path was only 3 issues long. Dungeon has had numerous others over the years, some few a bit longer than that.
However, with Erik Mona as the Dungeon's general, future Greyhawk content seems sure...
I personally won't buy the Shackled City book, how nice it may seem. I want to buy my own copy of the '83 boxed set first... (at last!)
By the way, if you can get your hands on the Istivin series, do it. It's a really cool series rich with Greyhawk goodness.
Here's to hoping for a high-level adventure in Old Almor!
Here's to hoping for a high-level adventure in Old Almor!
To be honest, I am more interested in the tale of your party taking back the old kingdom part by part...
You should post a campaign journal some day!Your constant references have indeed bring me to think, if I shouldn't return to the Aerdy for gaming once more...
To be honest, I am more interested in the tale of your party taking back the old kingdom part by part...
Your constant references have indeed bring me to think, if I shouldn't return to the Aerdy for gaming once more...
Right now, my ideas are sort of abstract. We're still in the beginning of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil and I plan to follow it up with Throne of Iuz and/or the Istivin series with a possible connection back to RttToEE for the latter; the EEE worshipping drow that were former House Eilserv is just too strong of a connection to ignore especially sine there are a duo of ambassadors featured in the RttToEE.
Once they have completed those adventures, it's back to the east for Almor.
I keep my eyes peeled for any new adventures featuring that area hoping to scavenge it for ideas. Even remotely similar concepts from third-party publishers would be helpful. In the meantime, I'm drawing heavily from Libris Mortis for undead critters, DMGII for magical events, and Weapons of Legacy for specific magic items tied to the history of Almor.
But this is a discussion for another thread. ;)
Come to think of it, it's an awfully stiff price no matter what. Did this really need to be a hardcover? Is that what drove the cover price so high?
How many pages is it, BTW?
Pax,
Krad
http://paizo.com/dungeon/products/books
The book also comes with a pull-out full-color map booklet and a huge two-sided poster map. It's definitely not a rip-off.
--Erik Mona
But this is a discussion for another thread. ;)
Send you a PM. -I've toyed with the same concepts some time, so maybe an exchange would be helpful.
the whole shackled city campaign seems kind of stupid to me. i dont like the idea of a another cult trying to destroy the world, its ALWAYS a cult (indiana jones and the temple of doom, for example).
Well, it's either a cult, one individual or an organization. That's not much to choose from. What would you prefer? The Turnip Farmer Association? Yet another massive flight of dragons? Gods walking the Oerth? The fact is: there aren't a dozen ways of achieving some goals.
and making the world a huge prison seems kind of lame. finally, even if its supposed to be magic and doesnt have to be logical, somehow using the power of a volcano to open a portal seems kind of... illogical.
First, it's not about turning the world into a prison but about letting bad guys out of a jail on an unsuspecting world.
Second, it seems strange to hear you condemn it as 'illogical' given we're talking about a world where big flying reptiles can breathe fire and puny humans can summon demons just by snapping their fingers.
Harnessing the power of nature to do one's work has always been a big temptation for mankind. Geothermal energy is but one example of this. So, what's so surprising about some people wanting to do just that to power their spells?
First, it's not about turning the world into a prison but about letting bad guys out of a jail on an unsuspecting world.
Second, it seems strange to hear you condemn it as 'illogical' given we're talking about a world where big flying reptiles can breathe fire and puny humans can summon demons just by snapping their fingers.
:D :D
;)
It's very true that WOTC can keep the PHB price a bit lower because of the high print run, but certainly not 50% lower, and it's still a question of whether you're getting equal value for your dollar. And don't forget: for Shackled City, almost all of the development work was already done and previously published. They're charging 60 bucks for what is essentially a reprint collection.
I'll ask again: other than vanity, was there really a reason to make this a hardcover book, instead of, say, a $30 boxed set with maps? Because I'll tell you: if I'm paying 60 bucks for a book, no way am I going to start ripping maps out of it.
Mind you, I think that Paizo's done a pretty decent job with the magazines, and Shackled City was a pretty good adventure, but a price point like that is just off the charts.
Pax,
Krad
I'll ask again: other than vanity, was there really a reason to make this a hardcover book, instead of, say, a $30 boxed set with maps? Because I'll tell you: if I'm paying 60 bucks for a book, no way am I going to start ripping maps out of it.
I dunno, durability maybe? My paperback copy of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil is in far worse condition than my 3.0 PHB, and I used my PHB far more. A book that size in paperback won't last very long.
It really irks me when people overlook the overall value of a book and count the number of pages to justify the cost. That's like saying a 320-page book full of pictures is obviously of more value than a 416-page book full of rich content.
Well, OK, but the PHB 3.5 is 320 pages in full color for only 30 bucks -- more than 75 percent of the length for only half the price. And when you consider that the price of both books is substantially because of their hardcover bindings, and not the cost per page of printing, the difference becomes even more significant.
You can't use the PHB for comparison. Why not look at other WotC releases?
DMG II : 288 pages, $39.95 cover price
Heroes of Battle : 160 pages, $29.95
The last big adventure WotC put out was City of The Spider Queen, 160 pages softcover, $29.95
The only recent box set I can think of was Shadizar - City of the Wicked, for the Conan RPG by Mongoose. That clocked in at 150 pages, $39.95.
I don't mean to be rude, but almost everything you said regarding the costs associated with RPG publishing is wrong.
For $60, Shackled City is going to be the book I use most often for the next year of gaming. It contains the entire campaign I'll be running. Let's say my group takes sixty weeks to finish this campaign arc, playing six hours per session. That comes to $1.00 per week. That's cheaper than going to the movies. Hell, it takes about ten minutes to read a good comic book, and those cost $2.95.
My point is, for the entertainment value and the high quality of this product, it is very well worth the expenditure. And I bought mine direct from Paizo because I think they should be supported for producing the best D&D out there.
Excelsior!
--Ghul
I dunno, durability maybe? My paperback copy of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil is in far worse condition than my 3.0 PHB, and I used my PHB far more. A book that size in paperback won't last very long.
It really irks me when people overlook the overall value of a book and count the number of pages to justify the cost. That's like saying a 320-page book full of pictures is obviously of more value than a 416-page book full of rich content.
Yeah, that irks me too... except it’s not what I said. Here’s what I said:
They're charging 60 bucks for what is essentially a reprint collection.
So there you have it.
As for durability: That’s why most boxed sets divide up their interior product into several smaller books – so that you’re not constantly thumbing through the same booklet all the time.
I don't mean to be rude, but almost everything you said regarding the costs associated with RPG publishing is wrong.
OK, you’re not rude, you’re just wrong. Here’s everything I said about RPG publishing:
This really, honestly, swear-to-God is what I said about RPG publishing – in fact, the post is just a few messages up, you can go see for yourself. What exactly in those statements did you find so "wrong"?
That aside, I agree with you that the PHB is not the perfect comparison – in part because the PHB required substantially new writing, design, playtesting, revising and editing, and the Shackled City book did not.
But hey -- if you want to spend 60 bucks on a reprint book, then knock yourself out. We'll wake you when it's over.
Pax,
ASH
what i dont get is why the hell adimarchus fell in love w/ a dude.
Because, you know, strictly historically speaking, guys never fall in love with other guys, right?
hey wait a sec, isnt using a published campaign basically railroading?
If you say so.
By the way, ENWorld's RPGShop has it for $54.
Note that (for various reasons), they can't say out loud that it's set in GH but if you look closely, there are clues all over the place. The starting village is near the City of Greyhawk (the 'nameless' city of thieves and wizards they speak of). Kyuss is a GH bad boy. The Wind Dukes come straight from GH too (from the Rod of Seven Parts story). So, in essence, it's a GH adventure without the GH tag.
I wasn't too happy with Cauldron being 'dumped' in GH (because of its location in the southern jungles which contradict the local history) but the new story arc is very nice (so far) and fits like a glove the setting.
That aside, I agree with you that the PHB is not the perfect comparison – in part because the PHB required substantially new writing, design, playtesting, revising and editing, and the Shackled City book did not.
Actually... comparing Shackled City to the 3.5 PHB is more accurate than you might think. As the developer and one of the editors for Shackled City I can confirm that the hardcover is far more than a mere reprint of the original 11 adventures that comprised the Adventure Path's run in Dungeon.
Not only did we reinstate some of the material that had to be cut for space from the original run, we've included a lot of new material that was written specifically for the hardcover (including a new adventure, a lot of new background info and regional info, additional new monsters and a new prestige class, expanded details on several areas and events that got glossed over the first time like the Flood Festival or Thifirane's manor, etc.). In all, there's about 40,000 or so new words in the hardcover. Every adventure went through another round of development to clear up plot holes, put in foreshadowing, and to tighten up the plot so it all works as one giant adventure rather than as 11 separate adventures that can be strung together.
And as for price point... it's actually a LOT more expensive to produce boxed sets than it is to produce a Hardcover book. If we'd done Shackled City as a boxed set, its price point would have shot past $100. It would have been cool, sure, but also super expensive. Making the book a soft cover was also not an option; the product had to be durable enough to withstand a year or more of use.
I think the problem is that too many people keep thinking of smaller modules, and trying to compare the two. The thing is, if you really compare them on the scale of a full-sized campaign, you'd see just how good a deal this is. The "original" Adventure Path, the 8 modules WotC published for 3E weighs in at $79.20 for 288 pages. (Plus another 16 counting the maps on the interior covers.) By comparison, the Shackled City is a great deal at $60 for 418 pages. That's more pages, for less money, several years later.
As it goes, I have all the individual issues. So for me, it would be paying $60 for some minor editing, additions, and a map. That isn't worth the price. (At least not for me.) But if I didn't have those issues, I would consider the price to be quite reasonable.
(In fact, I'd prefer if WotC stopped putting out books every month and went to a quarterly schedule for core releases where the books were $60 and the page counts around 400, excluding the "filler" they keep loading them with now. But that's a rant for them.)
So I don't see the price as a reason to avoid this. It might be shocking to see it up front, but when you look at it more closely, it is quite reasonable.