First in DS 1st edition rules:
Halflings could only be illusionist.
Halflings without extraordinary stats could reach level 16 (with extraordinary stats they could almost reach levels needed for metamorphosis)
Halfling chiefs were normally Preservers, thus normally illusionist
Fluff:
Nok was an extremely powerful arcane caster in addition to being a mindbender, and able to use animal life to power his magic.
The followers of Rajaat were Halflings that became shadow giants
The shadow giants were weakened in darkness and stronger in sunlight
Sadira when infused with and drawing power from the Sun became as the shadow giants in appearance and power.
The conversions took place at the Pristine Tower, which was a Halfling artifact that drew energy from the Sun itself.
From this information my conclusions are as follows:
1. Shadow giants and sun wizards gained their power from absorbing sunlight NOT from the black.
2. The Halflings link to shadow magic seems obvious due to the illusionist link and it therefore seems that shadow magic/sun magic seems to be a Halfling form.
Building from these conclusions it seems to me that Halflings may need their own form of magic in my d20 modern conversion. One that allows them to draw from plant, animal, or sun. (Or possibly just animal and sun) This makes for an interesting idea on things as illusionists in 1st and 2nd editions were similar to the current 3.5 bard in spell list capability.
I am thinking a PrC/advanced class that follows a progression on fighting/hunting/etc.. of the core bard class, with faster advancement on magic but no bard abilities…. The magic would be limited to the spells following the idea of the bard, which means virtually no true offensive spells. (evocation is basically non existent, and several other schools have little or no representation in the lists.) I wanted to get others viewpoints on it.
As for halflings of the current age, I kind of thought Nok was drawing his magical energy from the platlife. Yes, he somehow knew a bit of Dragon Magic when he created the staff of Nok, that drew from living creatures, but it didn't seem to be able to use that ability, only someone holding the staff.
So I am not sure that halflings of the day would have a special magic system that drew energy from the sun and/or living creatures. Granted, like I said, I haven't finished the series yet, so maybe there is something in there that says otherwise, but so far I just haven't seen it.
From this information my conclusions are as follows:
1. Shadow giants and sun wizards gained their power from absorbing sunlight NOT from the black.
2. The Halflings link to shadow magic seems obvious due to the illusionist link and it therefore seems that shadow magic/sun magic seems to be a Halfling form.
While it is true that the shadow giants needed light to exist, there was obvious mention to their ties with the Black. But I can see how their strength would be determined by ambient illumination.
Building from these conclusions it seems to me that Halflings may need their own form of magic in my d20 modern conversion. One that allows them to draw from plant, animal, or sun. (Or possibly just animal and sun) This makes for an interesting idea on things as illusionists in 1st and 2nd editions were similar to the current 3.5 bard in spell list capability.
I am thinking a PrC/advanced class that follows a progression on fighting/hunting/etc.. of the core bard class, with faster advancement on magic but no bard abilities…. The magic would be limited to the spells following the idea of the bard, which means virtually no true offensive spells. (evocation is basically non existent, and several other schools have little or no representation in the lists.) I wanted to get others viewpoints on it.
A prestige class might be in order for any that may have discovered the path, but without augmentation (from the Pristine tower or elsewhere) I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe halflings would be capable just out of the blue.. erm, well, Halflings out of the Blue might have been, but... nevermind.
But, on the other hand, if you assume that Dragon Magic is just a devolved version of ancient Halfling magic, it might be feasible that there would be halflings still out there able to use this power source. Maybe deep in the forests are tribes of halflings that still preserve a bit of their advanced heritage, but slowly over time they have been reduced in number, leading to the feral uncivilized halflings everyone is familiar with. Maybe these sun/animal draining halflings have remained hidden because they don't want the SKs to know that there are other beings able to use this form of energy. If you take it to that sort of level, the possibilities are endless.
Who knows, maybe once every X years, one of the shadow giant's obsidian eggs hatches, not another shadowperson, but a halfling on par with the ancients. These halflings are drawn towards their own kind on some quest to try to returm them all to the glory days, or something. . . ahh well, I am rambling.
I have only just picked up the prism pentad and am reading it for the first time (on the Obsidian Oracle now). From what I gather, the original halflings were Masters of the Way and were able to use a form of magic far superior to anything that exists to this date. Maybe it came from the sun, maybe it was just enhanced psionics. Rajaat then learned sorcery that tapped into plantlife and the rest is history.
Your understanding is off.
The ancient halflings were not psionicists. Psionics was a phenomenon of the Rebirth and the Green Age. The ancient halflings (the Rhulisti) posessed the knowledge of Life Shaping. This was neither psionics, nor magic, but can be better understood as a form of genetic engineering. They knew how to grow a certain raw material into anything they wanted it to be.
Some of this knowledge survives to the present time, in the form of rote rituals ... only a very few of the rhul-thaun (the halflings of the Jagged Cliffs) know these rituals, and none truly understand what they're doing.
I have only just picked up the prism pentad and am reading it for the first time (on the Obsidian Oracle now). From what I gather, the original halflings were Masters of the Way and were able to use a form of magic far superior to anything that exists to this date. Maybe it came from the sun, maybe it was just enhanced psionics. Rajaat then learned sorcery that tapped into plantlife and the rest is history.
as said by flip, the original halflings were lifeshapers, psionics came from the rebirth.
As for halflings of the current age, I kind of thought Nok was drawing his magical energy from the platlife. Yes, he somehow knew a bit of Dragon Magic when he created the staff of Nok, that drew from living creatures, but it didn't seem to be able to use that ability, only someone holding the staff.
ahh but in the battle between Nok and Sadira in Amber Enchantress..... Nok was using the animal life energy of the other halflings to cast his spells. when he was hunting Sadira to get the cane back.
So I am not sure that halflings of the day would have a special magic system that drew energy from the sun and/or living creatures. Granted, like I said, I haven't finished the series yet, so maybe there is something in there that says otherwise, but so far I just haven't seen it.
This was just my own musing actually from the accumulated ideas from 1st ed and the fluff..... I am making my own version of Dark Sun using the D20 modern rules and trying to build it as fluffy as possible.... that is why I am trying to guage others opinions on why they were illusionist (and shadow magic is a subschool of illusion) and if this would warrent an advanced class that is halfling specific.
While it is true that the shadow giants needed light to exist, there was obvious mention to their ties with the Black. But I can see how their strength would be determined by ambient illumination.
actually their link to the black was that it was their prison, when they were totally in the dark they were weakened.... as was described by that being the only place Umbra could be destroyed. This seems to indicate, IMHO, that they are strengthing themselves through drawing in light and it is being sucked away from them by the black....
A prestige class might be in order for any that may have discovered the path, but without augmentation (from the Pristine tower or elsewhere) I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe halflings would be capable just out of the blue.. erm, well, Halflings out of the Blue might have been, but... nevermind.
Again I am just looking at possibilities to try and tie up some fluff issues on 1st ed and the way halflings chiefs were almost always preservers (illusionists) but yet humans were considered to be the race best adapted to magic by rajaat. (of course illusionist cannot cast evocation magic and some other forms in 1st which might explain this.)
But, on the other hand, if you assume that Dragon Magic is just a devolved version of ancient Halfling magic, it might be feasible that there would be halflings still out there able to use this power source. Maybe deep in the forests are tribes of halflings that still preserve a bit of their advanced heritage, but slowly over time they have been reduced in number, leading to the feral uncivilized halflings everyone is familiar with. Maybe these sun/animal draining halflings have remained hidden because they don't want the SKs to know that there are other beings able to use this form of energy. If you take it to that sort of level, the possibilities are endless.
I personally see dragon magic and most other defiling/preserving as a lesser power, used in a totally different way, from old lifeshaper arts.... a direct drawing of the life energy vs. the working of the life.... some of the discussions on the brown tide hold part of my reasoning on this.
Who knows, maybe once every X years, one of the shadow giant's obsidian eggs hatches, not another shadowperson, but a halfling on par with the ancients. These halflings are drawn towards their own kind on some quest to try to returm them all to the glory days, or something. . . ahh well, I am rambling.
I am not big on this idea myself.....but for your own game .... my issue with it is the shadowpeople are imprisonned in the Black by the fluff.
actually their link to the black was that it was their prison, when they were totally in the dark they were weakened.... as was described by that being the only place Umbra could be destroyed. This seems to indicate, IMHO, that they are strengthing themselves through drawing in light and it is being sucked away from them by the black....
Do the novels actually say or indicate that shadow giants are spellcasters?
I don't recall reading of that.
Besides, modern halflings are illusionist preservers, yes, but the shadow giants are halfings dating from the very beggining of the Green Age. Surely there were no tribal halfing wizards back then...
As such, I don't think they were put in the Black to weaken their "sun magic"...I think its to trap them (After all, there are only two dimensions besides the elements, the Black and Gray. Gray would have resulted in death...)
Do the novels actually say or indicate that shadow giants are spellcasters?
I don't recall reading of that.
Besides, modern halflings are illusionist preservers, yes, but the shadow giants are halfings dating from the very beggining of the Green Age. Surely there were no tribal halfing wizards back then...
As such, I don't think they were put in the Black to weaken their "sun magic"...I think its to trap them (After all, there are only two dimensions besides the elements, the Black and Gray. Gray would have resulted in death...)
Actually I don't think I was being clear. I was not saying the shadow giants were spellcasters, I was saying they were drained by the black and gained strength from the light, which in turn was once again drained by the Black (kind of like how undead energy drain works).... which was said in the 2nd book with umbra.... and the 3rd at the tower.
The intersting thing on the shadow giants was they were trapped/linked to the black.... whereas Rajaat was placed in the Hollow.... just seemed interesting to me considering the Black's seeming draining nature.....
Again this is just ideas..... I just found it curious that even the normal halflings were linked so closely to illusion magic, seeing as how the shadow magic is part of illusion. It also puts into question how the halflings came to learn illusion magic..... as I do not see alot of followers of Rajaat going out to the forest ridge to teach the chiefs out there.... and for most halfling chiefs to be illusionist (preservers) when halflings are against following other races traditions makes it kind of suspect as to the nature of it all.
Again this is just ideas..... I just found it curious that even the normal halflings were linked so closely to illusion magic, seeing as how the shadow magic is part of illusion.
This is straw grasping, which can be good, really good sometimes, but this i think is too far fetched.
The illusion school having shadow magic in it, and its accidental thematic link with Athas's Black, is just that, an accident.
Halfings have illusion magic because the designers wanted them to mimick tribal, primitive Earth cultures, which if they had magic would use it to protect the tribe and fool the prey, hence illusions.
Besides, halflings camouflage and hide themselves, so its only normal their magic would do the same.
for most halfling chiefs to be illusionist (preservers) when halflings are against following other races traditions makes it kind of suspect as to the nature of it all.
Is there a reference to halfing chieftains being mainly illusionists?
Your understanding is off.
The ancient halflings were not psionicists. Psionics was a phenomenon of the Rebirth and the Green Age. The ancient halflings (the Rhulisti) posessed the knowledge of Life Shaping. This was neither psionics, nor magic, but can be better understood as a form of genetic engineering. They knew how to grow a certain raw material into anything they wanted it to be.
Some of this knowledge survives to the present time, in the form of rote rituals ... only a very few of the rhul-thaun (the halflings of the Jagged Cliffs) know these rituals, and none truly understand what they're doing.
Yep. And a good example of what lifeshaping is like, check out the literary decendants of the Rhulisti, which are found in Star Wars: New Jedi Order series of books. The invading race "Yuuzhon Vong" in that series bears far too many striking similarities to the Rhulisti, their technology, and even the history of the Yuuzhon Vong seems to suggest that they came from a once water-covered world that died; and the Yuuzhon Vong had never returned to it after they had left millenia before.
Personally, I take the Star Wars d20 version of Yuuzhon Vong, their ships and technology -- pretty much verbatim from that game, and drop them into Dark Sun whenever I feel I want a campaign that has the return of the Rhulisti.
Is there a reference to halfing chieftains being mainly illusionists?
Actually yes.... in the halfing writeup in the darksun 1st edition box set. In the wanderers Journal it mentions in several places that most Halfling chiefs were preservers, and as the only form of preservers that they could be in 1st edition rules were illusionists.... hence most chieftans were illusionists.
This is straw grasping, which can be good, really good sometimes, but this i think is too far fetched.
The illusion school having shadow magic in it, and its accidental thematic link with Athas's Black, is just that, an accident.
Halfings have illusion magic because the designers wanted them to mimick tribal, primitive Earth cultures, which if they had magic would use it to protect the tribe and fool the prey, hence illusions.
Besides, halflings camouflage and hide themselves, so its only normal their magic would do the same.
Actually it is just brainstorming on an idea. I found it very interesting that the shadow school of magic is part of the only school of magic halflings used to be able to learn....
And there is more than just an appearance link in the black and shadow magic, as in earlier editions of darksun the "black" was supposed to be the athasian equivielent to the plane of shadow. (and Umbra and the other shadow giants reffer to it as being all surrounding in the same way that the plane of shadow/ethereal plane is.)
Actually I think we have a difference of opinion as to why the designers wanted halflings to be illusionist..... I think it has more to do with Troy Dennings Nok character than anything else.... while at the same time keeping supremecy of magic to be humans, and that halflings "cannot" cast all forms of magic.... so Rajaat would not just use halflings to return the blue age.... but in either case we are only stating our opinions as to why the designers made them able to be illusionists.
also remember that arcane magic is not natural in darksun.... it must be taught, and in the same descriptions of the halflings I mentioned it goes into detail of the fact that while they may learn others traditions, they do not follow or embrace them .... so why would they take the knowledge of Rajaats power and intigrate it that fully into their culture. That goes against what was written on the nature of the halflings.
Yep. And a good example of what lifeshaping is like, check out the literary decendants of the Rhulisti, which are found in Star Wars: New Jedi Order series of books. The invading race "Yuuzhon Vong" in that series bears far too many striking similarities to the Rhulisti, their technology, and even the history of the Yuuzhon Vong seems to suggest that they came from a once water-covered world that died; and the Yuuzhon Vong had never returned to it after they had left millenia before.
Personally, I take the Star Wars d20 version of Yuuzhon Vong, their ships and technology -- pretty much verbatim from that game, and drop them into Dark Sun whenever I feel I want a campaign that has the return of the Rhulisti.
I agree, and this is where I am going with lifeshaping in my system, though not quite. Magic and lifeshaping are two differing ways that can accomplish similiar goals..... note I do feel there is a connection but they are not the same at all.
I agree, and this is where I am going with lifeshaping in my system, though not quite. Magic and lifeshaping are two differing ways that can accomplish similiar goals..... note I do feel there is a connection but they are not the same at all.
Well, I personally don't see there being a connection. I see Lifeshaping as being more or less organic technology. Using the Yuzhon Vong, I generally rule that Dragon Magic can absorb energy for its spells from their technology (making the Dragons the Yuuzhon Vong's #1 threat). As such, I would figure that the Yuuzhon Vong I rule that lie how they are invisible to the Force, they are also invisible to Psionics -- meaning that any psionic attack or ability cannot be directed at the Yuuzhon Vong (but would have to be something that indirectly affects them).
Basically, the result is something very, very alien and unexpected in Dark Sun when I bring the Rhulisti (or, shall we say, Yuuzhon Vong) around. Of course, I don't have them with quite as massive and insurmountable a force as in the Star Wars novels -- I have what basically is a force of them that were seeking their homeworld, find it, find these monstrocities on it, and begin to fight to reclaim Athas themselves.
Of course, I also generally have the Tohr Kreen Empire, and more specifically the "Masters of Change" (Zik-Chil) come into direct conflict with them -- as I tend to go with the idea that the Zik-Chil are the decendants of the nature benders, which were exhiled by the nature master Rhulisti -- who are the ancestors of the returning Rhulisti/Yuuzhon Vong.
Oh, and I keep them at the normal Yuuzhon vong height. After all, tens of thousands of years, a race that excels at genetic manipulation, should be able to alter themselves, and maybe they found becoming larger and more imposing as useful.
In second ed. D&D Gnomes were able to become illusionists, but not other Wizards. Perhaps halflings in the DS setting were merely taking up the mantle left by the absense of gnomes. Thats what I first thought when I saw it so many years ago.
I did too till I read the books, and that got me thinking alot about how they were presented..... the nature of the halflings is nothing like the gnomes or even normal halflings they are something else entirely..... They really are wonderful.... even in the first box set they had the hints that the halflings were much, much more than they seemed.....
I wonder alot about the illusion magic of the halfling actually..... they are so adamant of the halflings tracing their rituals and ways back to the blue age..... but yet the only group of halflings who does not have a predominance of arcane casters as their leaders are the rhul-thuan...... makes me wonder if perhaps Rajaat studied something else to come up with sorcery.
Well, I personally don't see there being a connection. I see Lifeshaping as being more or less organic technology. Using the Yuzhon Vong, I generally rule that Dragon Magic can absorb energy for its spells from their technology (making the Dragons the Yuuzhon Vong's #1 threat). As such, I would figure that the Yuuzhon Vong I rule that lie how they are invisible to the Force, they are also invisible to Psionics -- meaning that any psionic attack or ability cannot be directed at the Yuuzhon Vong (but would have to be something that indirectly affects them).
The only link I look at in lifeshaping and magic is the link that troy denning himself spoke around...... the fact that when the pool at the top of the tower was defiled it appeared like the description of the brown tide.
This got me thinking about the concept of maybe Rajaat was studying the brown tide and its effects when he found the principles of magic..... it would explain the swamp at the base of the cliffs......
and even explains an idea why halflings can use some magic and not other types. (note I am only looking at the fluff, 1st ed., 2nd ed., and my own rules at this point not 3.5 D&D)
I like the idea of the rhulisti being immune to psionics and unable to use it myself.
Basically, the result is something very, very alien and unexpected in Dark Sun when I bring the Rhulisti (or, shall we say, Yuuzhon Vong) around. Of course, I don't have them with quite as massive and insurmountable a force as in the Star Wars novels -- I have what basically is a force of them that were seeking their homeworld, find it, find these monstrocities on it, and begin to fight to reclaim Athas themselves.
Of course, I also generally have the Tohr Kreen Empire, and more specifically the "Masters of Change" (Zik-Chil) come into direct conflict with them -- as I tend to go with the idea that the Zik-Chil are the decendants of the nature benders, which were exhiled by the nature master Rhulisti -- who are the ancestors of the returning Rhulisti/Yuuzhon Vong.
Oh, and I keep them at the normal Yuuzhon vong height. After all, tens of thousands of years, a race that excels at genetic manipulation, should be able to alter themselves, and maybe they found becoming larger and more imposing as useful.
I find that to be a really interesting idea for the campaign and I have some similiar stuff in my game..... though in my game the only group of descendants of the Rhulisti that would increase their size is my version of the Yuan-ti.... and then it is a side effect of attaining seperntine form not a goal in and of itself.....
after all the halflings value stealth and speed not size.
I did too till I read the books, and that got me thinking alot about how they were presented..... the nature of the halflings is nothing like the gnomes or even normal halflings they are something else entirely..... They really are wonderful.... even in the first box set they had the hints that the halflings were much, much more than they seemed.....
I wonder alot about the illusion magic of the halfling actually..... they are so adamant of the halflings tracing their rituals and ways back to the blue age..... but yet the only group of halflings who does not have a predominance of arcane casters as their leaders are the rhul-thuan...... makes me wonder if perhaps Rajaat studied something else to come up with sorcery.
Well, Rajaat could have gotten ahold of something else. The Kreen Empire bordered his swamps at the base of the Jagged Cliffs. Going out on a limb here, so bear with me:
If the Zik-Chil are actually the decendants of the nature benders (the corrupted form of lifeshapers), and if the nature benders were banished from the rest of Rhulisti society because they spawned the brown tide that caused the eventual destruction of the oceans; then maybe Rajaat somehow tracked down ancient nature bender ideals. They couldn't do "real" lifeshaping (maybe, taking a page from the Yuuzhan Vong, they tried using non-living or synthetic methods, and could be the seed to the YV's total loathing and hatred of technology in Star Wars, but I digress.) Without having real access to Rhulisti nature masters, so he captures Zik-Chil, using his powerful innate Psionic talents (beying a Pyreen and all), he rips into their minds, and steals their genetic memories -- probably with a bit of torture as well, once again, being a Pyreen, he has divine power to tap -- I tend to think that unlike other pyreens, he is connected to the divine through the paraelemental planes, than the elemental planes (through the Spirits of the Land) -- maybe his twisted nature makes him not reliant on SotL's).
With this knowledge, his own self-loathing for his twisted nature, no small amount of ambition, he is able to develop the path of the arcane. It wouldn't be a direct link to lifeshaping, more that he somehow expands on the life-destrying nature of the brown tide, and the seemingly imperfect and quite flawed nature bender methods. There would have to be years upon centuries of distillation of his rituals to accomplish his goals -- the effects of which are the freakish abominations and failed experiments that wander those swamps (and even somewhat terrify the Kreen).
The only link I look at in lifeshaping and magic is the link that troy denning himself spoke around...... the fact that when the pool at the top of the tower was defiled it appeared like the description of the brown tide.
This got me thinking about the concept of maybe Rajaat was studying the brown tide and its effects when he found the principles of magic..... it would explain the swamp at the base of the cliffs......
Ok, I see where you're going on that. Note my above extrapolation. I take several liberties with the setting, based on my own view of things, but basically I see that it could definitely be possible that Arcane Magic's development could have been assisted through study of the asncient lifeshaping techniques.
I like the idea of the rhulisti being immune to psionics and unable to use it myself.
I find that to be a really interesting idea for the campaign and I have some similiar stuff in my game..... though in my game the only group of descendants of the Rhulisti that would increase their size is my version of the Yuan-ti.... and then it is a side effect of attaining seperntine form not a goal in and of itself.....
after all the halflings value stealth and speed not size.
Well, the modern halflings value that. The Rhulisti could have had radically different views on things. We are talking about a race that has been decidedly absent from Athas for a very long time. As much change that has occured on Athas over that time, there could easily have been much more changes in their civilization.
Well, Rajaat could have gotten ahold of something else. The Kreen Empire bordered his swamps at the base of the Jagged Cliffs. Going out on a limb here, so bear with me:
If the Zik-Chil are actually the decendants of the nature benders (the corrupted form of lifeshapers), and if the nature benders were banished from the rest of Rhulisti society because they spawned the brown tide that caused the eventual destruction of the oceans; then maybe Rajaat somehow tracked down ancient nature bender ideals. They couldn't do "real" lifeshaping (maybe, taking a page from the Yuuzhan Vong, they tried using non-living or synthetic methods, and could be the seed to the YV's total loathing and hatred of technology in Star Wars, but I digress.) Without having real access to Rhulisti nature masters, so he captures Zik-Chil, using his powerful innate Psionic talents (beying a Pyreen and all), he rips into their minds, and steals their genetic memories -- probably with a bit of torture as well, once again, being a Pyreen, he has divine power to tap -- I tend to think that unlike other pyreens, he is connected to the divine through the paraelemental planes, than the elemental planes (through the Spirits of the Land) -- maybe his twisted nature makes him not reliant on SotL's).
With this knowledge, his own self-loathing for his twisted nature, no small amount of ambition, he is able to develop the path of the arcane. It wouldn't be a direct link to lifeshaping, more that he somehow expands on the life-destrying nature of the brown tide, and the seemingly imperfect and quite flawed nature bender methods. There would have to be years upon centuries of distillation of his rituals to accomplish his goals -- the effects of which are the freakish abominations and failed experiments that wander those swamps (and even somewhat terrify the Kreen).
I had similiar ideas myself though I was having him just studying text versus interogating a descendant of the nature benders
Ok, I see where you're going on that. Note my above extrapolation. I take several liberties with the setting, based on my own view of things, but basically I see that it could definitely be possible that Arcane Magic's development could have been assisted through study of the asncient lifeshaping techniques.
Actually it is hinted that Rajaats creation of sorcery came from his study of lifeshaping.... he never learned lifeshaping but created something else through his studies
Well, the modern halflings value that. The Rhulisti could have had radically different views on things. We are talking about a race that has been decidedly absent from Athas for a very long time. As much change that has occured on Athas over that time, there could easily have been much more changes in their civilization.
True, your group could have changed significantly..... I was just going by the rhul thuan attitudes and the attitudes of all other halflings..... those long absent could have taken on abberant lines of thought :P
I dont think I have actually been clear on what I am planning on this, after rereading I think I went off on tangents again.... I seem to do that alot.
what I am planning to do is something like this in the d20 modern:
Not all members of all races can learn magic, of the normal races only Humans, Half Elves, and Elves can learn arcane magic without being altered. (there is a feat that can be taken at first level only, that grants the ability to learn arcane magic, or being mutated through magic, the pristine tower, or a few other things can add the capability.)
there are 6 core classes (one for each stat) none of which grant psionic or magical ability.
there are feats that grant access to divine magic, arcane magic, and psionics.
the only way to advance those skills is through taking the appropriate advanced class (advanced classes are like prestige classes, except that they can be taken as early as 3rd level.)
What I am looking at is making a lesser spelllist that the halfling qualify for without mutation..... so only human, half elves, elves, and those born/mutated with arcane rebirth can learn/cast the full list of arcane magic..... But halflings can learn/cast from a lesser illusion based list (similiar to the bards list from normal 3.5) if they take the arcane caster feat.
this is what I am trying to get feedback on.... to see if this is a viable idea per others opinions.
That sounds fine to me :D , it actually sounds like an interesting way to do it. Of course I don't know a lot about modern's magic system.
heh
knowing moderns magic system or psionics systems would not help anyway, I have totally rebuilt both systems for the d20 modern version of Darksun.... this is what has been taking so long.
D20 modern uses an almost identical mechanic as D&D.... I am totally revamping the stuff..... alot of it is from systems I built up for my own campaign world.
the basics of the magic system revolves around gathering/channelling energy for the spell first. (takes a move action for each check, you gather for arcane, channel for divine) But it opens up the number of times you can cast a bit.
on psionics I was rebuilding a system cvloser to the old 2nd edition mechanic but fixes the areas of abuse.... including a workable wild talents system. (one that allows for wild talents with powerful abilities that does not break balance.)
What I am looking at is making a lesser spelllist that the halfling qualify for without mutation..... so only human, half elves, elves, and those born/mutated with arcane rebirth can learn/cast the full list of arcane magic..... But halflings can learn/cast from a lesser illusion based list (similiar to the bards list from normal 3.5) if they take the arcane caster feat.
this is what I am trying to get feedback on.... to see if this is a viable idea per others opinions.
I like the idea myself, and there might even be potential for a similar thing in 3.5, kind of an illusionist hunter prestige...
here are the options and pros and cons, I would love feedback from as many as possible on this.
Plant = Pro=default energy source for arcane casters and what Rajaat taught. Con=all Halflings in the orginal set were preservers, which while workable would lead to abuse by pc defiler halflings....
Animal = Pro=only known arcane casting halfling in the novels was shown using animal life for his spellcasting. Con=this is normally reservered for dragons in the fluff, though in 3.5 PrC's exist to allow it too.... so may be a good way to represent the halflings all being "preservers"
Sun = Pro=halflings are associated with sun magic in the novels due to the pristine tower being a halfling artifact and harnessing the sun.... as well as Sadira being altered into a sun wizard there by the shadow giants, which were halflings. Con=sun magic seems a bit to powerful and has an epic feel to it.... possibly something that should only be granted through template/PrC/epic.
I personally am leaning towards animal life as the mechanic, and it is the transformation to dragon that is allowing them to draw from the same source as the halflings..... makes it a bit more interesting. Plus this fits fluff, and still leaves the fact that halflings are unable (without modification) to wield the evocations school and many other spells.... which again shows why Rajaat would choose others as the champions for the cleansing wars.
please let me know what others think.
hmmmm....now comes the part I need to really decide on, what source of energy the halflings are drawing on for the magic.....
here are the options and pros and cons, I would love feedback from as many as possible on this.
Plant = Pro=default energy source for arcane casters and what Rajaat taught. Con=all Halflings in the orginal set were preservers, which while workable would lead to abuse by pc defiler halflings....
Animal = Pro=only known arcane casting halfling in the novels was shown using animal life for his spellcasting. Con=this is normally reservered for dragons in the fluff, though in 3.5 PrC's exist to allow it too.... so may be a good way to represent the halflings all being "preservers"
Sun = Pro=halflings are associated with sun magic in the novels due to the pristine tower being a halfling artifact and harnessing the sun.... as well as Sadira being altered into a sun wizard there by the shadow giants, which were halflings. Con=sun magic seems a bit to powerful and has an epic feel to it.... possibly something that should only be granted through template/PrC/epic.
I personally am leaning towards animal life as the mechanic, and it is the transformation to dragon that is allowing them to draw from the same source as the halflings..... makes it a bit more interesting. Plus this fits fluff, and still leaves the fact that halflings are unable (without modification) to wield the evocations school and many other spells.... which again shows why Rajaat would choose others as the champions for the cleansing wars.
please let me know what others think.
I think animal would be the way to go, but with plant as a prereq. The fact that all the halflings in the fluff are preservers could be chalked up to a rather brutal cultural tradition (ie "you defile, we eat you" or something). Then include some interesting abilities/feats that allow hunter illusionists to stun their prey by tapping its life energy. Just a thought
I think animal would be the way to go, but with plant as a prereq. The fact that all the halflings in the fluff are preservers could be chalked up to a rather brutal cultural tradition (ie "you defile, we eat you" or something). Then include some interesting abilities/feats that allow hunter illusionists to stun their prey by tapping its life energy. Just a thought
ahh but the thing is cultural tradition would not work for the halflings.... they consider all other races to be a food source..... it is considered the be the greatest of tabboos to eat another halfling. Though the ideas of being able to stun creatures with tapping their life energy is an interesting one.... their is already something like that built into defiling..... hmmmmm I will look at that.
Thats my two bits :P
ahh but the thing is cultural tradition would not work for the halflings.... they consider all other races to be a food source..... it is considered the be the greatest of tabboos to eat another halfling.
I know, that's part of my point.
Maybe a halfling who defiles is considered by the Forest Ridge halflings to be "out of the race" and thus fair game.I know, that's part of my point.
interesting point, but I always got the feeling halflings were not so big on eating tainted meat..... and there is not much more tainted than a member of the only true race destroying the Green..... that is an abomination against all.... I think the halfling would be destroy in ways beyond knowing.... death is too good for them.
I'd go with animal life force. So long as they don't go as far as to "defile" the creatures life force. What that exactly entails is beyond me. Maybe hit point loss or Con drain.
Thats my two bits :P
with the method of gathering energy I designed for the d20 modern it is easy to figure out what is defiling and what is not for animal drain. Here is a brief overview:
first off wanted to make sure you are aware the system uses wounds and vitality instead of hit points.
a standard gather check is just a skill roll that takes a move action. (I have decided to make it part of the concentration skill.) The result of the roll is the amount of energy gathered. The energy can be stored for a number of minutes equal to the characters Con score. To cast a spell the character expends a number of points of energy equal to:
(Spell level x 3 +10) + (caster level)
For casters using plant life energy, the gather skill check is effected by terrain modifiers and defilers gain a +4 on the gather skill check. (and the area defiled is equal to the result of the check foot radius.)
However for animal life energy, the skill check result is the amount of vitality drained from the animal life within a 10' radius of the caster. This vitality drain is divided evenly among all animals within the area, including to the caster themself. A caster that has a masterwork obsidian orb may choose to increase the area of the drain by +10' radius/inche of the obsidian orb. A caster may choose to defile the animal life in the area, gaining the +4 bonus on the check. In the case of draining as defiling, the caster is not included for the purposes of seeing who is drained by their gather check.
just a quick way of doing it.