AD&D Mystara - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

AD&D Mystara

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Monteblanco
Jul 31, 2005 0:36:29 I am pretty sure this is already in a topic here but it appears that search is not an option in these boards. Anyway, I was wondering how good were the Mystara line for AD&D? I really like the Gazetteers and I am curious about how well fared their second edition counterparts.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2005 8:23:20 I haven't seen them personally, I never adapted to AD&D or 2nd Ed myself. I moved on to RoleMaster. I've heard they weren't very popular though. Poorly done or something. I'm sure someone else who has played with them or read them will come around. They can give you a better explanation or answer.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2005 12:51:25 The boxed sets are for completists only... and the adventures that they spawned were generally sub-standard, as they were designed for "introductory" play, and thus are extremely simplistic. However, it's been a while, but IIRC "Mark of Amber" was actually not too bad, though still not good. All of them were marred by the inclusion of the adventure CDs... blech! Not to mention the maps were a step back from the originals... new hex art that was just miserable!

The line consisted of:

Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure (boxed setting): basically GAZ 1, including the mistakes! Plus the changes due to the Wrath of the Immortals...

Hail the Heroes (boxed adventure): mixes in stuff from the Dragonlord series into Karameikos... YMMV.

Night of the Vampire (boxed adventure): an unremarkable vampire adventure.

Galntri: Kingdom of Magic (boxed setting): Much like the Karameikos set, it's basically GAZ 3, with the mistakes, plus the changes from the Wrath of the Immortals and a very few extra bits.

Mark of Amber (boxed adventure): dealt with the return of Etienne D'Ambreville. Not too bad, but not very good, either. The best of the lost, frankly, for what it is worth.

There were also two folios, a DM and a Player, with character sheets and other stuff. Not worth the effort of finding, IMO, as they only show the lack of Mystara knowledge of the compilers... heck, the covers used a globe of the Forgotten Realms as the art piece!
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2005 13:59:40 The big problem was that the Mystara world was not truly adapted as a mainstream AD&D world but was hijacked to provide a campaign setting for the FirstQuest introductory version of the game, which meant that it was written primarily for new (and sometimes younger) gamers. Because of that, it never really had a chance to take on a life of its own.

Or, put another way: how long can a campaign setting really survive, when its "new gamer" audience only stays that way for a limited amount of time?

Mystara is, IMHO, probably the best, most creatively realized and most logically organized of any of the mainstream fantasy campaign worlds that TSR produced. It unfortunately never really found a home with AD&D -- always considered a bench player compared to Krynn (the epic story campaign), Greyhawk (the nostalgia campaign) and the Realms (the gargantuan, sprawling mess).

Pax,

Krad
#5
havard
Jul 31, 2005 16:09:00 I think Mystaros and Krad answered this question pretty well. I have been pretty critical of the AD&D Mystara products in the past, but I have sort of warmed up to them.

Especially, if you dont own the gazetteer versions (Karameikos and Glantri), then the boxed sets will be quite useful. The problem is if you do own the gaz's or expect the same quality that they had, then you will be a bit disappointed. Still, there are some good ideas in both K:KoA and G:KoM, as well as some decent color artwork.

Oh, and Mystaros forgot to mention the best AD&D Mystara product of them all: the Monsterous Compendium appendix. Again, if you own either of the Creature Catalogues youre not getting much new, though the monsters have a bit more of detail to them as well as color art for each critter and obviously AD&D stats.

Håvard
#6
Cthulhudrew
Jul 31, 2005 20:37:45
Night of the Vampire (boxed adventure): an unremarkable vampire adventure.

I liked the fleshing out of areas outside of the "mainstream" settlements of Karameikos (what little fleshing out it had), but aside from being unremarkable, I was disturbed and confused as to why the adventure has a vampire (a 7 HD creature, IIRC) as the main villain in an adventure made for 1st-3rd level characters!?!?!
#7
gazza555
Aug 01, 2005 3:12:10
I think Mystaros and Krad answered this question pretty well. I have been pretty critical of the AD&D Mystara products in the past, but I have sort of warmed up to them.

Especially, if you dont own the gazetteer versions (Karameikos and Glantri), then the boxed sets will be quite useful. The problem is if you do own the gaz's or expect the same quality that they had, then you will be a bit disappointed. Still, there are some good ideas in both K:KoA and G:KoM, as well as some decent color artwork.

Oh, and Mystaros forgot to mention the best AD&D Mystara product of them all: the Monsterous Compendium appendix. Again, if you own either of the Creature Catalogues youre not getting much new, though the monsters have a bit more of detail to them as well as color art for each critter and obviously AD&D stats.

Håvard

I agree with all Håvard said. Also I would advise you to buy the ESD versions (assuming that they are complete ;) ) as you can't go far wrong at about $5 each.

Regards,
Gary
#8
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2005 10:18:04 Just wanted to state that I agree with kidradical and Mystaros. The 2e Mystara stuff is just not worth it, especially if you already have GAZ1 and GAZ3.

Havard is correct, the Mystara Monstrous Appendix was easily the best product put out for the series.

Not mentioned so far are the two Red Steel products. These were of similarly poor quality. The Savage Baraonies was in large part, redundant with the main campaign set. It was all again made redundant with the Savage Coast line of on-line products, which are now downloadable for free here on the WotC site. So there is no point whatsoever in tracking down the Red Steel boxes.

Both the Red Steel and Savage Coast line of products were bastardized versions of the setting presented in Bruce Heard's Voyages of the Princess Ark series. If you're interested in that part of Brun, your best bet is to track down a copy of the Dragon Magazine CD-ROM archive.

R.A.
#9
Cthulhudrew
Aug 01, 2005 17:18:05
Not mentioned so far are the two Red Steel products. These were of similarly poor quality. The Savage Baraonies was in large part, redundant with the main campaign set. It was all again made redundant with the Savage Coast line of on-line products, which are now downloadable for free here on the WotC site. So there is no point whatsoever in tracking down the Red Steel boxes.

The worst part about the Red Steel sets were that they messed up the timeline in some places- notably, Cimmaron County. They made Earl/Duke John of the Wain not gain his title until the Wrath of the Immortals war, despite having been previously established in that role as early as 1001 AC (from the Princess Ark stories).

The Red Steel Monstrous Compendium is a mixed bag. There are some interesting and unusual new creatures in there, but some are just a waste of space. The Marine Cat, for one, is just... a cat. A whole page devoted to a common housecat that hangs out on a boat. I also find the whole Red Curse concept for the monsters there to be somewhat esthetically unpleasant, mechanics wise (and awkward), but I also feel the same about the way they redid the Curse in the main Savage Baronies/Red Steel boxed set.

As RogueAttorney points out, though, all of these are available as free downloads here at the WotC site, so might as well download them for completeness sake, and pick and choose what you want from them.
#10
havard
Aug 01, 2005 17:31:30 Although I have to agree that the Red Steel boxed sets had their flaws, I actually think they were quite decent products, in general comparing favorably to the Mystara AD&D products. Also, I think they did a pretty good job adapting those regions of Mystara to the AD&D rules. I particularly liked how the Kits were handled. The Red Curse could probably have been handled better, though the OD&D version wasn't perfect either.

As Cthulhudrew says, there is definately no reason not to download the Savage Coast supplements. I am only a bit annoyed that they arent listed under the Mystara section since it makes it harder for Mystara fans to find them now.

Håvard
#11
zombiegleemax
Aug 03, 2005 2:19:05 D'oh! Yes, of course, the Mystara MC. I consider that a *good* product, which is why I didn't think of it when I was thinking of the other AD&D Mystara products...

As for Red Steel... well... 'nuff said.
#12
zombiegleemax
Aug 03, 2005 5:51:20
heck, the covers used a globe of the Forgotten Realms as the art piece!

I never noticed that before. The books also some obvious errors such as Anton Radu still being alive and in charge of the Veiled Society since he died at the end of the VS module. AS for the CDs, the spring issue of Games Quarterly had an interview with Monte Cook that contains a sidebar that talks about the Glantri cd. His original script had just npc dialogue and various sound effects and the company changed it all without telling him. The cds would have been good if they just contained sound effects that you could reuse for different modules instead of what they produced. Good idea, poor development.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Monteblanco Jul 31, 2005 0:36:29	I am pretty sure this is already in a topic here but it appears that search is not an option in these boards. Anyway, I was wondering how good were the Mystara line for AD&D? I really like the Gazetteers and I am curious about how well fared their second edition counterparts.
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2005 8:23:20	I haven't seen them personally, I never adapted to AD&D or 2nd Ed myself. I moved on to RoleMaster. I've heard they weren't very popular though. Poorly done or something. I'm sure someone else who has played with them or read them will come around. They can give you a better explanation or answer.
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2005 12:51:25	The boxed sets are for completists only... and the adventures that they spawned were generally sub-standard, as they were designed for "introductory" play, and thus are extremely simplistic. However, it's been a while, but IIRC "Mark of Amber" was actually not too bad, though still not good. All of them were marred by the inclusion of the adventure CDs... blech! Not to mention the maps were a step back from the originals... new hex art that was just miserable! The line consisted of: Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure (boxed setting): basically GAZ 1, including the mistakes! Plus the changes due to the Wrath of the Immortals... Hail the Heroes (boxed adventure): mixes in stuff from the Dragonlord series into Karameikos... YMMV. Night of the Vampire (boxed adventure): an unremarkable vampire adventure. Galntri: Kingdom of Magic (boxed setting): Much like the Karameikos set, it's basically GAZ 3, with the mistakes, plus the changes from the Wrath of the Immortals and a very few extra bits. Mark of Amber (boxed adventure): dealt with the return of Etienne D'Ambreville. Not too bad, but not very good, either. The best of the lost, frankly, for what it is worth. There were also two folios, a DM and a Player, with character sheets and other stuff. Not worth the effort of finding, IMO, as they only show the lack of Mystara knowledge of the compilers... heck, the covers used a globe of the Forgotten Realms as the art piece!
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2005 13:59:40	The big problem was that the Mystara world was not truly adapted as a mainstream AD&D world but was hijacked to provide a campaign setting for the FirstQuest introductory version of the game, which meant that it was written primarily for new (and sometimes younger) gamers. Because of that, it never really had a chance to take on a life of its own. Or, put another way: how long can a campaign setting really survive, when its "new gamer" audience only stays that way for a limited amount of time? Mystara is, IMHO, probably the best, most creatively realized and most logically organized of any of the mainstream fantasy campaign worlds that TSR produced. It unfortunately never really found a home with AD&D -- always considered a bench player compared to Krynn (the epic story campaign), Greyhawk (the nostalgia campaign) and the Realms (the gargantuan, sprawling mess). Pax, Krad
#5 havard Jul 31, 2005 16:09:00	I think Mystaros and Krad answered this question pretty well. I have been pretty critical of the AD&D Mystara products in the past, but I have sort of warmed up to them. Especially, if you dont own the gazetteer versions (Karameikos and Glantri), then the boxed sets will be quite useful. The problem is if you do own the gaz's or expect the same quality that they had, then you will be a bit disappointed. Still, there are some good ideas in both K:KoA and G:KoM, as well as some decent color artwork. Oh, and Mystaros forgot to mention the best AD&D Mystara product of them all: the Monsterous Compendium appendix. Again, if you own either of the Creature Catalogues youre not getting much new, though the monsters have a bit more of detail to them as well as color art for each critter and obviously AD&D stats. Håvard
#6 Cthulhudrew Jul 31, 2005 20:37:45	Night of the Vampire (boxed adventure): an unremarkable vampire adventure. I liked the fleshing out of areas outside of the "mainstream" settlements of Karameikos (what little fleshing out it had), but aside from being unremarkable, I was disturbed and confused as to why the adventure has a vampire (a 7 HD creature, IIRC) as the main villain in an adventure made for 1st-3rd level characters!?!?!
#7 gazza555 Aug 01, 2005 3:12:10	I think Mystaros and Krad answered this question pretty well. I have been pretty critical of the AD&D Mystara products in the past, but I have sort of warmed up to them. Especially, if you dont own the gazetteer versions (Karameikos and Glantri), then the boxed sets will be quite useful. The problem is if you do own the gaz's or expect the same quality that they had, then you will be a bit disappointed. Still, there are some good ideas in both K:KoA and G:KoM, as well as some decent color artwork. Oh, and Mystaros forgot to mention the best AD&D Mystara product of them all: the Monsterous Compendium appendix. Again, if you own either of the Creature Catalogues youre not getting much new, though the monsters have a bit more of detail to them as well as color art for each critter and obviously AD&D stats. Håvard I agree with all Håvard said. Also I would advise you to buy the ESD versions (assuming that they are complete ;) ) as you can't go far wrong at about $5 each. Regards, Gary
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2005 10:18:04	Just wanted to state that I agree with kidradical and Mystaros. The 2e Mystara stuff is just not worth it, especially if you already have GAZ1 and GAZ3. Havard is correct, the Mystara Monstrous Appendix was easily the best product put out for the series. Not mentioned so far are the two Red Steel products. These were of similarly poor quality. The Savage Baraonies was in large part, redundant with the main campaign set. It was all again made redundant with the Savage Coast line of on-line products, which are now downloadable for free here on the WotC site. So there is no point whatsoever in tracking down the Red Steel boxes. Both the Red Steel and Savage Coast line of products were bastardized versions of the setting presented in Bruce Heard's Voyages of the Princess Ark series. If you're interested in that part of Brun, your best bet is to track down a copy of the Dragon Magazine CD-ROM archive. R.A.
#9 Cthulhudrew Aug 01, 2005 17:18:05	Not mentioned so far are the two Red Steel products. These were of similarly poor quality. The Savage Baraonies was in large part, redundant with the main campaign set. It was all again made redundant with the Savage Coast line of on-line products, which are now downloadable for free here on the WotC site. So there is no point whatsoever in tracking down the Red Steel boxes. The worst part about the Red Steel sets were that they messed up the timeline in some places- notably, Cimmaron County. They made Earl/Duke John of the Wain not gain his title until the Wrath of the Immortals war, despite having been previously established in that role as early as 1001 AC (from the Princess Ark stories). The Red Steel Monstrous Compendium is a mixed bag. There are some interesting and unusual new creatures in there, but some are just a waste of space. The Marine Cat, for one, is just... a cat. A whole page devoted to a common housecat that hangs out on a boat. I also find the whole Red Curse concept for the monsters there to be somewhat esthetically unpleasant, mechanics wise (and awkward), but I also feel the same about the way they redid the Curse in the main Savage Baronies/Red Steel boxed set. As RogueAttorney points out, though, all of these are available as free downloads here at the WotC site, so might as well download them for completeness sake, and pick and choose what you want from them.
#10 havard Aug 01, 2005 17:31:30	Although I have to agree that the Red Steel boxed sets had their flaws, I actually think they were quite decent products, in general comparing favorably to the Mystara AD&D products. Also, I think they did a pretty good job adapting those regions of Mystara to the AD&D rules. I particularly liked how the Kits were handled. The Red Curse could probably have been handled better, though the OD&D version wasn't perfect either. As Cthulhudrew says, there is definately no reason not to download the Savage Coast supplements. I am only a bit annoyed that they arent listed under the Mystara section since it makes it harder for Mystara fans to find them now. Håvard
#11 zombiegleemax Aug 03, 2005 2:19:05	D'oh! Yes, of course, the Mystara MC. I consider that a good product, which is why I didn't think of it when I was thinking of the other AD&D Mystara products... As for Red Steel... well... 'nuff said.
#12 zombiegleemax Aug 03, 2005 5:51:20	heck, the covers used a globe of the Forgotten Realms as the art piece! I never noticed that before. The books also some obvious errors such as Anton Radu still being alive and in charge of the Veiled Society since he died at the end of the VS module. AS for the CDs, the spring issue of Games Quarterly had an interview with Monte Cook that contains a sidebar that talks about the Glantri cd. His original script had just npc dialogue and various sound effects and the company changed it all without telling him. The cds would have been good if they just contained sound effects that you could reuse for different modules instead of what they produced. Good idea, poor development.