I'm looking to do the Secret Craft's as 10 level prestige classes and any more info would be great.
Regards,
Gary
My 2 cents, anyway.
A quick question(s) regarding The Principalities of Glantri website. Is it still active. I've got a lot of good stuff from it but there are still some things missing such as a number of the Secret Crafts and Histories of various Houses and individuals.
It's not active, per se. Kit Navarro still maintains it, but the GPD group has, for the most part, broken up and moved on to other things, or at least lost its momentum. I haven't gotten any GPD group mailers in a long time, and I think I'm one of the last to do anything (a couple of NPCs posted on the MML)- though, admittedly, I was long overdue. The sheer amount of "product" the rest of the group put out was immense.
I'd try contacting Kit (his email is on the bottom of the page) if you want to have your work posted on the site.
I'm looking to do the Secret Craft's as 10 level prestige classes and any more info would be great.
Feel free to ask here. Like I said, the GPD group is mostly defunct, but many of us frequent here and/or the MML.
Were there specific questions you had in mind? Also, bear in mind that the majority of the info on the site were things we came up with individually and collectively, so if it's not there, it probably hasn't been developed by us. There were several "in development" projects that I recall offhand.
In any case, if you have some questions or ideas you want to run past anyone, might as well just post them here, or email.
The Secret Crafts work much better as 5-level PrCs, IMHO. The original Secret Crafts had five ranks, after all. Combine this with the fact that 10-level PrCs are supposed to be able to be extended indefinitely once you reach epic levels, and it just seems like a 5-level PrC works best.
I'm of the exact opposite view. From the standpoint of the Circles of rank in the crafts, the 5 level class works, but in my own experience working on the crafts, it just doesn't seem to fit.
Conceptually, the 5 level class seems, IMO, to represent either a dilettante- someone who dabbles briefly in something, then returns to his major calling- or the pinnacle of ones career- such as is the case with the Archmage and Divine Hierophant PrCs. Neither concept, to me, reflects the spirit of the Secret Crafts. (I actually have struggled with the "major calling" aspect, but since the original PrCs had such low-level entry requirements, finally discarded that idea.)
The reading I take from the SCs is that these are areas of magic that the practitioners had a particular interest in before joining, which led them to discover the SCs, which represent a more "in-depth" and focused sort of study. As an example, a wizard might dabble in illusion magics (have a spell or two), or might specialize in illusion magics (focusing his interests on them so that they are his majority), but only the truly dedicated wizard pursues the SC of Illusion, and gains abilities beyond the pale of even a specialist. To me, that seems more like what these Crafts were intended to be, and 10 level+ classes seem to reflect that better.
Add to that the fact that the classes are such a mixed bag of abilities, and in certain cases (such as the Dracologist), have so many that they don't seem to fit into a 5 level mold. Of course, I think many (if not most) of the abilities will have to be tweaked and toned down quite a bit anyway, as they were so all over the place and broadly defined in the original source material.
I wouldn't dilute the powers though. They were very powerful in OD&D, and should remain so. Too many people get caught up in "balance," which is very subjective. These are not prestige classes just any wizard should be able to access (in fact, not every Glantrian Wizard should be able to access them
)Keep them secret and powerful, but limit accessibilty to those that earn the right to join the circle (through roleplay requirements as well as the normal feat/regional/skill requirements). I have even toyed with the idea of XP sacrifice to gain levels in a secret craft, in order to make a character work for it
I like the idea of the Secret Crafts being 10-level prestige classes, but ones that offer no epic advancement.
IIRC you can only extend 10-level PrC's into Epic if the abilities are 'predictable' ie +1 at 2nd-level, +2 at 4th-level, +3 at 6th-level etc. If the abilities are all unique or of no fixed pattern then you can't extend them. (I could be wrong :D )
Keep them secret and powerful, but limit accessibilty to those that earn the right to join the circle (through roleplay requirements as well as the normal feat/regional/skill requirements). I have even toyed with the idea of XP sacrifice to gain levels in a secret craft, in order to make a character work for it.
That's the general idea, I won't be giving the players details of the classes - I will just tell the player who's character manages to join the craft what he gets at level 1, and level 2 when he gains a level etc. Oh, and of course, to qualify for 10th-level (High Master) the has to be a vacancy. ;)
I'm of the exact opposite view. From the standpoint of the Circles of rank in the crafts, the 5 level class works, but in my own experience working on the crafts, it just doesn't seem to fit.
I'm currently thinking of giving Secret Craft Abilities at evenly numbered levels, although if there are a number of abilities, one or two maybe given a level earlier or if powerful maybe even a level later.
Were there specific questions you had in mind? Also, bear in mind that the majority of the info on the site were things we came up with individually and collectively, so if it's not there, it probably hasn't been developed by us. There were several "in development" projects that I recall offhand.
No questions as such, I would have liked to see the rest of the House Histories done and the other Secret Crafts (Cryptomancy, Witchcraft,a nd the 3 other elementalists). Also, Clan Alhambra is sadly lacking in NPCs.
I'd try contacting Kit (his email is on the bottom of the page) ...
Couldn't find it on GPD site but have got an address for him at his 'Paparazzi Glantri' site. I noticed that some of the links on GPD site lead to an 'unfinished' folder so that's probably the 'in development' projects you mentioned.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll post the PrC's when I finish them, don't hold your breath ;) :D .
Regards,
Gary
No questions as such, I would have liked to see the rest of the House Histories done and the other Secret Crafts (Cryptomancy, Witchcraft,a nd the 3 other elementalists). Also, Clan Alhambra is sadly lacking in NPCs.
Most of the Major House Histories were done by me. There is only McGregors that I was planning to do, that is still unfinished. I think I have notes for that somewhere. I can put them together and send here if you are interested. Unfortunately I don't have time to finalize it.
From other houses me and Jennifer both had our own versions from Clan Alhambra, I think they are both in Vaults. Jennifer also put something together about Virayanas, that should also be in Vaults or in her website.
Harri
Most of the Major House Histories were done by me. There is only McGregors that I was planning to do, that is still unfinished. I think I have notes for that somewhere. I can put them together and send here if you are interested. Unfortunately I don't have time to finalize it.
I know the problem all that RL (and I don't mean Ravenloft :D ) getting in the way! It would be great if you could post whatever notes you've got on the McGregors.
From other houses me and Jennifer both had our own versions from Clan Alhambra, I think they are both in Vaults. Jennifer also put something together about Virayanas, that should also be in Vaults or in her website.
I'll check out both sites ASAP, in fact, ... :D
Thanks Harri.
Regards,
Gary
I'm looking to do the Secret Craft's as 10 level prestige classes and any more info would be great.
Some time ago, I developed the Death Master prestige class along with a generic SC advancement table becouse one of my PCs wanted to join the SC of Necromancy. I took inspiration from the SC version of A. Andrievski, at the Vaults. I'll post some details below.
I made the SCs as 10-level prestige classes; one Circle equals 2 level in the class (i.e. 1st and 2nd level are 1st Circle, etc.).
Basically, in my version you have to possess a minimum number of ranks in Knowledge (arcana) and a minimum level of arcane spells you can cast to gain each Circle in a SC. The character has to spend a lot of time and money to advance a Circle, and he must succeed in a Spellcraft check (DCs range from 12 to 27, depending on the Circle he wants to reach) before managing to reach next level. So, you can advance a Circle at levels 1-3-5-7-9; you can reach 9th and 10th level in a SC prestige class, but you gain none of the powers associated with it until the Grand Master is dead or defeated.
Each Circle in a SC prestige class gives the character some powers (metamagic feats more often) associated with a school of magic; these are in addition to the special powers each SC awards.
By the way, each SC imposes other unique requirements in order to take a level in its prestige class. For instance, the Death Master prestige class I developed had Spell Focus (necromancy) and Heal 2 ranks in addition to other requisites, common to each SC prestige class.
Last but not least, you don't need to have a prestige class proceed beyond 10th level if you won't to! ;)
I hope something of this will be useful to you, Gary!
I hope something of this will be useful to you, Gary!
It's always useful to see someone else's take on things. I like the idea of the Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft checks - maybe a written and practical tests to gain the special abilities of the next level ;) , obviously the practical test for High Master is...
Regards,
Gary
Here are short sketches about former Boldavian nobles.
Harri
Moise Kviepoly b. 769 d. 832
Baron of Palatinsk 829-832
Moise was mayor of Palatinsk and definitely the most capable military commander amongst the Boldavians (He was a fighter). He was big, hulking man, with dark red hair and beard (his mother was Flaemish). He led Boldavian troops in the Forty-Years war and was rewarded with the title of Baron afterwards. Unfortunately he was also a vampire and after war he became increasingly harder to control. In the end his son, Vlad, killed him (order came from Morphail of course.)
Fedor Markovitch b. 777 d. 859
Baron of Rymskigrad 829-859
Fedor was mayor of Rymskigrad and with Boris Gorewich-Wozslany composed the diplomatic corps of Morphail. They handled all the negotiations with the other “rebel” leaders, while Morphail stayed in background. Fedor was an intelligent and cultivated nosferatu necromancer, who was killed by marauding ethengarians.
Alexandru Timenko b. 756 d. 866
Baron of Kutchevski 829-866
Alexandru was mayor of Kutchevski and was during the war second-in-command for Moise Kviepoly. He was a vampire necromancer. He vanished during a one stormy night in a “hunting trip”.
Vlad Kviepoly b. 800 d. 845
Son of Moise
Baron of Palatinsk 832-845
Vlad was a vampire fighter like his father. He was killed by vampire-hunters in Rymskigrad.
Mircea Kviepoly b. 824 d. 857
Son of Vlad
Baron of Palatinsk 845-857
Mircea was first necromancer in the family and also first death master amongst the Boldavian nobility. He was killed by his brother Petru after his return to Palatinsk after years of adventuring. Petru realised that Mircea was nosferatu and killed him.
Aleksei Markovitch b. 827 d. 881
Grandson of Fedor
Baron of Rymskigrad 851-859
Baron of Vladimirov 859-881
Aleksei’s father and mother were also killed when Ethengarians killed Fedor. Consequently his hatred of Ethengarians was very deep. After moving to Vladimirov he was constantly harassing them by sending undeads and worse to attack them. He was nosferatu death master necromancer specialised in creation of undeads. It is said that he perished after losing control of some very powerful undead.
Petru Kviepoly b. 825 d. 877
Brother of Mircea
Baron of Palatinsk 857-877
Petru was a basic magic-user, who left Boldavia after his father’s death and adventured around old world over ten years. Then he came back and killed his brother Mircea after realising he is undead. He couldn’t however avoid Morphail who made him also nosferatu. Petru was still bit unruly and declined all offers about knowledge of necromancy. He was killed by Mihail Gorevith-Wozslany during his frenzy periods.
Vlaicu Timenko b.795 d. 883
Son of Alexandru
Baron of Kutchevski 866-883
Vlaicu was a death master nosferatu, but not a necromancer. He just vanished like his father.
Mihneu Kviepoly b. 826 d. 892
Brother of Petru
Baron of Palatinsk 877-892
Mihneu was a nosferatu necromancer, who avoided death in Petru’s hands only by being in Glantri City when Petru returned to Palatinsk. He went over the edge and killed himself.
Piotr Markovitch b. 851 d. 894
Son of Aleksei
Baron of Vladimirov 881-894
Piotr was a necromancer vampire and a party-animal like Boris. He was drowned in Glantri City after a party, or he was at least found floating in the canal.
Dan Timenko b. 830 d. 918
Son of Vlaicu
Baron of Kutchevski 883-918
Dan was a vampire death master. He was killed by his ambitious son Mihail.
Alexandru Kviepoly b. 802 d. 901
Brother of Vlad
Baron of Palatinsk 892-901
Konstantin Markovitch b. 834 d. 900
Brother of Aleksei
Baron of Vladimirov 894-900
Konstantin vas a necromancer, who was killed with his family by Vladislav who pretended to be his son, but who actually was his cousin.
Vladislav Markovitch b. 817 d. 938
Son of Konstantin
Baron of Vladimirov 900-938
Vladislav was a powerful death master necromancer nosferatu. He was scholarly like Alexandru Kviepoly but unfortunately he was also ambitious and power-hungry. He managed to avoid Morphail’s attention until 938 when Morphail realised that Lajos Wutyla, new baron of Mariksen, was a vampire under Vladislav’s control and that they were plotting against him. Consequently both were mysteriously killed within one week.
Radu Kviepoly b. 859 d. 923
Son of Alexandru
Baron of Palatinsk 901-923
Radu and Gavril were actually Alexandru’s grandsons but were posing as his sons to conceal Alexandru’s real age. Radu was a nosferatu alchemist, who managed to blow himself in pieces.
Mihail Timenko b. 857 d. 931
Son of Dan
Baron of Kutchevski 918-931
Gavril Kviepoly b. 863 d. 929
Brother of Radu
Baron of Palatinsk 923-929
Because of his scholarly interests Alexandru had pushed his grandson’s to different fields of magic-using. Radu managed to enter secret craft of Alchemy and Gavril secret craft of Dracology. Gavril ended up being a vampire dracologist. He was exterminated by crafts new High Master Johann von Drachenfels immediately after founding out his vampirism.
Alberts Kviepoly b. 907 d. 951
Grandson of Radu
Baron of Palatinsk 929-931
Viscount of Blofeld 931-951
Alberts was again death master nosferatu. His father was a mundaner. With Alberts Morphail first time manage to expand his power base. He had tried already earlier to introduce boldavians to Blofeld when it was free, but 931 was his first success. Unfortunately for Morphail Blofeld seemed to be to far away from Igorov and too close to rest of Glantri, Alberts began to slip away from his control and finally 950 switched his allegiance to House of Singhabad. Next year whole his family was butchered in the tower of Blofeld. Culprits were never found.
Matei Serban b. 849 d. 959
Baron of Palatinsk 931-959
Matei was propably greatest of the Morphail’s students in necromancy and in Death Mastery; consequently he was made baron of Palatinsk after Kviepolys moved to Blofeld. Unfortunately Matei was also ambitious and have delusions of replacing Morphail as High Master. His fatal mistake happened in 959, when he approached Boris and offered him a status of Prince if he would help him against Morphail. Matei could not in his own power-hungriness understand that Boris could be loyal to his brother; whole concept was incomprehensive to Matei. Boris of course told everything to Morphail. Matei was torn in pieces by Morphail when Boris and other barons were watching by.
Vlad Timenko b. 877 d. 976
Son of Mihail
Baron of Kutchevski 931-976
Lajos Wutyla b. 905 d. 938
Baron of Mariksen 935-938
Lajos was promising necromancer to whom barony of Mariksen was created in 935. He however ended up to be too much influenced by his powerful neighbour Vladislav Markovich and was killed.
Bela Wutyla b. 915 d. 961
Brother of Lajos
Baron of Mariksen 938-961
Bela was Lajos’ brother and necromancer death master vampire. He was loyal to Morphail until he was killed by the Ethengarian vampire hunters.
Boris Markovitch b. 915 d. 970
Grandson of Vladislav
Baron of Vladimirov 938-970
Boris was of course not a grandson of Vladislav, he was a grandson of Vladislav’s grandson and last living member of the family (Vladislav have killed everyone else). He was a death master nosferatu, who died in building accident when a log impaled him.
Grigori Leon b. 918 d. 973
Baron of Palatinsk 959-973
Grigori was from old flaemish family, who had been living in Boldavia nearly two hundred years. He was considered by Morphail to be a safe choice for Palatinsk after Matei. He was not ambitious, not even too bright, but competent necromancer anyway. He is also so far last Boldavian noble who hasn’t been undead.
Matthias Wutyla b. 862 d. 990
Son of Bela
Baron of Mariksen 961-990
Matthias was actually uncle of Lajos and Bela, but was posing as Bela’s son. He was a powerful death master nosferatu who explored other planes of existence and just vanished during one his travels. (Lazslo and Sergei who are supposed to be his sons are actually his descendants; there was four generations between them).
There were three leaders amongst the ethengarians, who agreed to help the rebels against Halzunthram. First amongst them was Gegen Khan, a warrior and a leader of the ethengarians. He had two wizard assistants: Tulai Virayana and Babajun Tsembu. Gegen was leader until his death in 825. Tulai had died already in 823, so leader after 825 was Babajun, because Gegen’s son Bogdo revered the old wizard. After capture of Halzunthram in 828 it was however Tulai’s son Birkai, who represented ethengarians first in the negotiations and then in Council. Babajun was too ill after war years and wanted to rest.
Tulai Virayana b.752 d.823
Tulai was cruel and deceitful, but munificent, hardy, courageous, intelligent and sensitive. He loved gardening and was a bibliophile. He wrote his memoirs and poetry.
Birkai Virayana b.778 d. 835
Treasurer 828-835
He was scholarly, favoured sciences, generous and merciful, but weak, unstable and inadequate.
He created unitary monetary and taxation systems for Highlands.
Birkai Virayana, the Ethengarian leader, was staring at him with his narrow black pupils who showed up against his yellow iris. Despite his eyes suggested lizard's features they glittered of a superior intelligence, making him more prone to a comparison to a dragon instead.
He didn't love too many words and when he spoke others had to spend some time thinking of what was beyond his words.
Toktai Virayana b.811 d.896
Treasurer 836-845
Supreme Judge 845-896
He was only son of Birkai.
He was brave to the point of folly, especially when hunting. He liked also hawking. He was headstrong.
He collected books and maintained department of court painters in Singhabad.
He began toleration of other people than ethengarians in Krondahar. He led Krondahar for the best of his people and was tolerant and gentle.
Died without illusions and disappointed to behaviour of all of his sons.
Momai Virayana b.860 d.950
Viceroy of Ylourgne 896-920
Grand master 920-950
Oldest son of Toktai.
He was talented, uncontrolled and lusty. He was good natured when things went like he wanted, but otherwise cruel tyrant. Scholar who wrote his memoirs. Extremely intelligent, but addicted to drink in his later years.
He murdered his father’s councellor Fazl Sekh in 893.
Real rulers of Krondahar were his primary wife Nurmakul and her brother Asaf Sur.
Jherek Virayana III b.910 d.989
Viceroy of Ylourgne 950-973
Grand Master 973-989
He was gentle ruler.
His wife was San-Jai Mahka, daughter of Asaf Sur.
He spent his days in lavish and exquisite court life.
During his times began weakening of toleration of other races in Krondahar’s administration.
He fell to his death while climbing the treacherous "Naked Mountain" (a 1400-foot sheer cliff wall that not even snow clings to) in search of the elusive "snowtree" (a fabled crystalline plant which only grows high in the Colossus Mounts, and which has the consternating habit of melting before it can be brought down to the lowlands for study).
He was a strong-willed Prince who refused to be careful, refused to grow old gracefully, and refused to assimilate with the rest of Glantrian culture, which made him a very interesting Grand Master.
His four sons began power struggle in 984, when it began clear that Jherek’s sanity began to deteriorate.
Escape from Laterre
McGregors and McDougalls were two closely related clans in old highlands in the world of Laterre. They had many connections through. While McDougalls were mostly warriors, leaders of the McGregors were wizards of a darker side (mostly sorcerers and necromancers). Their areas were near a border between kingdoms of Kaelicks and Fenswicks. Besides the war with Fenswick the two clans were troubled with strained relations of McGregors towards other clans. Situation went from bad to worse and only solution for McGregors was an escape through the gate that leader of the clan, Brannart McGregor, had recently found in co-operation with the Fen witches. McDougalls wanting escape the war decided to follow their allies to a new world.
Brannart ”the Red” McGregor
b. 698 d. 749 (in Mystaran years)
Had a neatly trimmed red beard and moustaches. Was lean. Foxy.
Had two wives: Maria Durham d. 737 and Joanna McRhomaag.
Died in battle where Fenswick lead by Batril and Moorkroft-brothers escaped the control of Kaelics.
Edgar ”the Young” McGregor
b. 731 d. 790
Son of Brannart from his first marriage.
Had a short-cut hair and small moustaches. Stocky.
Shrewd, but sympathetic, sensitive and good willing. Strong-willed.
Strong, energetic and effective ruler, his people enjoyed peace and prosperity until beginning of the 40 years war.
Refused to swear homage to Flaems, however had good relations with them.
Had two wives: Margaret McAllister and Jolanda Sullivan. His two sons Donald, Alexander and a daughter Isabel all died before him.
Fell from a horseback and died.
Baliol “the Weak” McGregor
b. 739 d. 815
Son of Brannart from his second marriage.
Big, bear like man. Bit uncertain in his actions.
Was too weak to resist Halzunthram’s demands. Instructed his clan to help him. His oldest son Bruce captured the leadership and imprisoned him because of this in 796.
Wife Euphemia Graham, sons Bruce, Gordon, Dungal, Edward, Christopher, Ian, daughters Constantina, Elena
Died in dungeon.
Bruce “the Grim” McGregor
b.774 d. 829
Son of Baliol
Warrior unlike his father and grandfather.
Small man, long moustaches and a goatee. Fiery tempered. Real military genius, who refused to fight. Waged highly successful guerrilla warfare against anyone who tried to enter his lands.
Killed his younger brother Gordon in 806 after losing his temper, for which he felt guilty later.
Halzunthram imprisoned his sisters and executed his brothers Dungal and Edward in 805 and Christopher together with his brother-in-law Neil MacDowell in 806. Last of his brothers Ian was killed in battle in 818.
Had two wives: Elizabeth McDonald (daughter Mary) and Isabella Burgh (son David) and at least 5 bastards.
Died in fever.
David “the Maiden” McGregor
b. 804 d. 871
Only legal son of Bruce.
Lean man with small moustaches. Mean lacking courage. Liked dancing and gaming.
He slowly built peace, prosperity and order around Crownguard. Got only ingratitude from people, because he used the money for his own purposes.
Had two wives Margaret Batril (d.862) and Joan Leslie, but no children. Was bitter for his half-brother Robert because of his children. Had him imprisoned in 868 for couple of weeks, but kept him alive as an heir.
Died unexpectedly in 871.
Robert “the Mighty” McGregor
b. 816 d. 890
Illegitimate son of Bruce.
Viceroy of sablestone 875-885, Treasurer 885-890
Tall, handsome man, impressive in appearance, with aristocratic bearing and bloodshot eyes. Clean-shaven with moustaches. Used uniforms.
Humble, mild, affable, cheerful and honourable. Weak man, ineffective, mediocre and incompetent as a ruler, had a poor health.
Popular, had Olympian prodigality (21 children, which only 12 were indisputably legitimate), nick name “Mighty Bob”.
Two wives Annabella Ross (Sons Kenneth, Walter, Alexander, daughters Mary, Jean, Katherine, Elizabeth, Margaret) and Elizabeth Graham (Sons Quentin, Angus, daughters Egidia, Isabella, Moira).
His two oldest sons Kenneth and Walter (as Castellan of Crownguard, politician of a family) ruled Klantyre and Crownguard in his last years, when Robert stayed in Glantri City.
Eldest daughter Mary married John McDougall in 852.
Kenneth “the Gross” McGregor
b. 840 d. 906
Oldest son of Robert
Treasurer 890-896, Supreme Judge 896-906
Stocky man, with a limp. Stable and calm.
During his time there was great discord amongst Klantyrians because he exercised rigour nowhere.
Let Klantyre to be ruled by his dominating younger brother Walter.
Power struggle between Walter and Kenneth’s oldest son Angus, which ended Angus’ death in 902. Angus 899-902 Lieutenant in Klantyre.
As Supreme judge sought to improve the quality of both criminal and civil justice.
Wife Joan Mar, sons Angus, Malcolm, daughters Margaret, Mary, Egidia
Died in heart attack.
Malcolm “the Bald” McGregor
b. 874 d. 937
Son of Kenneth
Viceroy of sablestone 906-937, Treasurer 936-37
Tall, bald and clean-shaven. Good ruler and a man of the arts. Athlete, linguist, musician, singer and poet. Energetic, accomplished and impatient. His energy and ruthlessness antagonised many of his relatives and fellow nobles.
Preferred to be feared than loved.
Executed castellan of sablestone, Murdoch McGregor (son of Walter) in 925.
Wife Ingeborg McDougall, son Duncan daughters Joan, Mary, Margaret, Matilda, Ada, Isabel
Was murdered by his uncle Angus.
Duncan “the Wolf” McGregor
b. 900 d. 960
Son of Malcolm
Viceroy of sablestone 937-960
Tall man, with coarse features.
Executed his second cousin Douglas, castellan of sablestone, in 939. Next year killed his sons.
Wife Marjory Badenoch, sons Brannart, Angus, David, Bruce, Daughters Eleanor, Annabella
Died in explosion in Sablestone.
Brannart McGregor
b. 9 d. 1015?
Son of Duncan
Viceroy of sablestone 960-1015
Had three brothers two of which (Angus and David) were arrested and disappeared in 979. Third Bruce died in suspicious circumstances after escaping to Darokin.
Wife Agnes McDougall, sons Duncan, Quentin, daughters Marjorie, Barbara
Actually because of the formatting I'm not putting it here. Instead you can find it from http://www.geocities.com/hihama/McGregor.htm
Harri
Thanks Harri
All the above will be very useful.
Regards,
Gary
:-) Jesper