Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 spellweaver Aug 02, 2005 17:50:30	I had never considered this before but thought of it after reading the outrageously funny last episode of RPGpundit's saga in another thread. What is the point of having a Death Sentence in the justice system in a world where every high-level bad guy has friends with enough money or connections to pay for a Raise Dead spell? No matter how the spell is provided (money, quest etc.) doesn't it ruin the "justice for all" notion of a society if some can escape death and others cannot? :-) Jesper
#2 RPGpundit Aug 02, 2005 19:20:11	Well, I argued that the death sentence includes cremation, making it impossible for a regular raise dead to revive the criminal. Now, if the criminal can find someone to give him a raise dead fully, and can afford that, there really isn't anything the law could do and that person is already at a level where mortal justice more or less doesn't apply to him. By the way, thanks for your compliment! RPGPundit
#3 Traianus_Decius_Aureus Aug 02, 2005 20:38:26	In our campaign, a death sentence is permanent. Only a wish spell can bring you back (raise dead, raise dead fully, resurrection don't work in this case). There is no specific mechanic to explain this, just an understanding between the players and DM.
#4 frankthedm Aug 03, 2005 15:45:35	Have different levels of "death sentences". And who says they are giving the body back? 1. hanging or run through: you are killed and given back to your family. 2. beheaded and head not returned to family. 3. Cremated & ashes scattered or fed to a slime. 4. Death spell or effect. body not returned. 5. Petrified and statue tossed in a vault. [even if broken, you do not die until turned back] 6. Enervated to death and tossed into a vault: Dying this way causes you to rise as a wight[see energy drain]. 6a.Bound helpless with manacles and given to original wight in the vault. 7. Bound helpless and fed to a Barghest.
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 03, 2005 16:52:34	This is why, in high-magic kingdoms, you often find the Big Bad Guys sentenced to "living deaths," like being mummified alive or being magic jarred into a gemstone that is then buried in a hidden tomb deep beneath the holiest of holies... that kinda thing. I actually worked up a spell for that kind of thing for Castles & Crusades... I'll dig it up when I get home.
#6 stanles Aug 03, 2005 21:04:48	Have different levels of "death sentences". And who says they are giving the body back? 1. hanging or run through: you are killed and given back to your family. 2. beheaded and head not returned to family. 3. Cremated & ashes scattered or fed to a slime. 4. Death spell or effect. body not returned. 5. Petrified and statue tossed in a vault. [even if broken, you do not die until turned back] 6. Enervated to death and tossed into a vault: Dying this way causes you to rise as a wight[see energy drain]. 6a.Bound helpless with manacles and given to original wight in the vault. 7. Bound helpless and fed to a Barghest. wouldn't it be simpler to have a low level cleric spell to be cast on a dying body to make it unraisable?
#7 Cthulhudrew Aug 04, 2005 18:04:20	wouldn't it be simpler to have a low level cleric spell to be cast on a dying body to make it unraisable? That's a good idea. Off the top of my head, I could see the Bless spell having a function that makes a body unraisable (by bringing the blessings of the Immortals on it and allowing the soul to pass onwards). Alternatively, a Consecrate spell might do the same (3E has a consecrate spell already, but I'd probably co-opt the name for an OD&D spell that does what Shawn suggests, since it seems an appropriate name).
#8 Hugin Aug 04, 2005 18:24:45	3E has a spell called Soul Bind that draws the soul from a newly dead body and imprisons it into a gem. Only thing is, it's a 9th level spell. But you could make a lesser level spell that just prevents a soul from re-entering the body.
#9 zombiegleemax Aug 06, 2005 12:20:30	I like the idea of the Bless spell myself. It can be learned early by a cleric and it could do the trick while the cleric does some ceremony over the body. This along with any of the punishments listed in posts above would all be good ways to complete the death sentence. Can't really have a bless in Glantri, but then maybe that's why there are so many undead there too.
#10 spellweaver Aug 06, 2005 12:50:38	Can't really have a bless in Glantri, but then maybe that's why there are so many undead there too. Being sentenced to undeath in Glantri is probably more horrifying to most people than being sentenced to death in any other country. :D :-) Jesper
#11 stanles Aug 06, 2005 18:44:08	I like the idea of the Bless spell myself. It can be learned early by a cleric and it could do the trick while the cleric does some ceremony over the body. This along with any of the punishments listed in posts above would all be good ways to complete the death sentence. Can't really have a bless in Glantri, but then maybe that's why there are so many undead there too. I was thinking about that one, I would expect that a Necromancer would have a higher level spell that would essentially do the same thing. Of course for them it would be a totally different logic. Rather than being a consecration or blessing the necromancer could use it to ensure a soul does go on to the afterlife, rather than there being the chance that it could come back as an undead. For example a necromancer might just be finishing off an opponent necromancer in a duel or something. He then casts the spell as the opponent is dying so that some pact he has to come back into undeath doesn't work. If used in such a situation there have to be a chance against the method the necromancer is becoming undead so that the spell might not work. Anyway the spell could also work on normal people just to ensure they can't be raised.
#12 culture20 Aug 06, 2005 23:26:27	Raise Dead might be part of the death sentence; I'm not sure if it's in 3E, but in 2E, you could only be raised as many times as your Constitution, so the death sentence goes thusly: Execute the criminals in a way that they will remember the death Raise them from the Dead Continue Executing until Raising no longer works
#13 zombiegleemax Aug 07, 2005 21:00:52	That is a cool idea. I might use that in my own rule sets.
#14 kheldren Aug 08, 2005 2:39:53	There used to be a rule (I think) wher eyou could not raise someone who had become undead. And since Zombies and Skeletons used to be neutral... If you animate executed criminals you have a useful minion (for things like cleaning cesspits) and should you ever need them back you can cast 2 raise deads (one to turn the zombie into a corpse) and they are back...
#15 zombiegleemax Sep 03, 2005 18:21:34	Ah! I see you have discovered the potential difficulties of death as atonement for crimes. Indeed, we must fear that some meddling interloper may disrupt the natural order, bringing life back to the condemned. And even if this does not occur, still, does it not seem that there are those whose felonies are so abhorrent that we must intercede, lest Kala should retrieve the soul before Askyri, transferring this corrupted soul into a higher order rebirthing than is proper? This is why you need the services of the Maedharans, the humble order which I represent. I have journeyed to you all the way from our cloister in Shajarkand, just to offer up the wares of my brethren. We have worked night and day to craft this wondrous tool of justice, and now I offer it to you, as this tool should certainly be in the hands of one both wise and just. Careful, my lord! Do not touch the black stone! Hold it here, on the wooden shaft, for any that touch the stone will be killed: utterly, painlessly, and permanently. We are, my lord, a humble and impoverished order seeking to spread justice... all we ask is a modest contribution to our efforts. Would you care to test the powers of the Rod of Justice, my lord? Now for some details: Show Kala (Hel) needed a method for harvesting the souls of the evil, for reincarnating in positions that seem likely to rise to power--it is too tiresome watching the evil, just waiting for their deaths, and to interrupt their progress prematurely is not at all her intent. Since the Maedharan cloister, located deep within the Nemkin Ylaka, was already established as a money-laundering operation for her church within Sind, Kala delegated to them the additional task of creating the Rods of Justice, ornately carved wooden staves holding a minor artifact at the end. These artifacts, dull black stones, have a single power: to instantly Gate any who touch them to Hel's domain. As the Kingdom of Hel is toxic to the living, this does effectively kill the condemned, though the process is hardly painless. No mortal magic save direct intercession with Hel can retrieve the soul of a victim of this artifact. Hel, at her convenience, reincarnates these souls into those who seem destined for power. The artifact radiates magic, but not evil. The wielder of this artifact will gradually become affected, as by a cursed weapon. He or she will, with repeated uses, turn more and more into a "hanging judge." Hel has only created six of these artifacts, and the mystics who are sent to sell them are instructed to watch carefully to insure that they go to the hands of a just and powerful lord (Hel has no use for the innocent), and that they fetch a healthy donation in return (even mystics need to eat, and the Supreme Maedhar always needs more jade ornaments...).
#16 culture20 Sep 04, 2005 14:17:00	Show Eeeevil. "Gate" is neutral, so the artifact isn't evil, but I love its use. Hel should watch out though; if one of her enemies discovers the plot, they might deliver a stroke by transfering a Draedon or two into her realm...
#17 zombiegleemax Sep 04, 2005 17:12:49	Now there's an idea! Someone decides to use it as a weapon, and then Wham! It's a stroke ;)