The PC's consisted of a elven female ranger, a male human tempus cleric (Outlander), a halfling rogue, and a human fighter. After some searching they came across a hut in the forest, and decided to knock on the door and ask the residents of the house for information. Some human man answers the door, and the PC's ask for information. He calls on his mistress who ends up being a beautiful elven woman with silver hair (Wink Wink). Anyway the tempus cleric and fighter pass their checks for the bewitching gaze, but the little halfling dosen't and tries to "Hit On" her a bit. The lady says she dosen't know anything about the children, until the elven ranger hears sobbing from the back rooms of the house
The elven ranger immedatly demands to see the back rooms. The silver elven woman insists that its nothing, but the elven ranger insists at taking a look. So the Werefox drops her masquerade, and pounces on the elven ranger, shifing into werefox form and biting her (scoring 12 points of damage (2d6+2 damage). The battle ensues as the halfling snaps out of it, and the fighter and cleric draw weapons. In the end the 2 manslaves of the Werefox are killed, and the Werefox is wounded enough that she flees the schene to avoid getting killed. In the back room they found chopped up remains of little children, and kids locked away in cages and gagged. So in the end they save 3 of the missing children (although the Cleric failed a horror check and went beserk and started busting things apart). However the elven ranger failed her save VS Lycanthropy (A roll I made in secrect).
Suffice to say, despite healing the damage with the help of the cleric and some rest, the elven ranger didn't feel very good. Her body felt strange, and her dreams filled with confusing nightmares. A few days later during their travels, she woke up screaming one night, and transformed into a werefox and ran wild into the night. The PC's looked for her and found her the next morning, with ripped clothes, lying in the shrubs. Anyway the PC's decided to get some help, and sought discreatly information on lycanthropy. However the PC had other plans. Seeing how "Cool" werefox lycanthropy is with all its damage reduction, charm gaze, a wereform that gives insane dexterity bonus and a very fast movement rate and other nifty benifts, she insists on spending the 100 XP to become a full lycanthrope. You may say "You can't become a true lycanthrope unless you're born that way" but this is a unique circumstance. According to the gazzetter with the Werefox stats, their whole race is barren, and thus reproduce only by infecting other people with their form of lycanthropy (And a character can spend 100 XP to become a true werefox).
The problem exists that I'm debating the chaotic evil thing. It seems like a drastic alignment shift. Werefoxes likey become chaotic evil, cause they got cool charm powers and in the end abuse them to suit their own needs. The ranger in the group is Chaotic Good. So should you allow PC's take a lycanthropy with very distingished benifits?
First, infected lycanthropes become in true lycanthropes isn't that new. The MM section on lycanthropes gives the first step:
"Once a character becomes aware of his affliction, he can now voluntarily attempt to change to animal or hybrid form, using the appropriate Control Shape check DC. An attempt is a standard action and can be made each round. Any voluntary change to animal or hybrid form immediately and permanently changes the character’s alignment to that of the appropriate lycanthrope." (emphasis mine)
Take a look at JWM's article "Beasts at Heart" in the Book of Souls, available at http://www.kargatane.com/ . The rules may have changed, but the theme is still the same: the character isn't controlling the beast, it's the other way around.
Second, I don't have my books with me, but take a look in the RL3E or RLPHB under lycanthropes, because some of this is covered in there. I can't recall the exact rules, but IIRC, embracing lycanthropy is at least cause for a serious powers check.
One unanswered question is whether the involuntary alignment shift from infection causes a Madness check. I would rule no, but if it adds drama, you might consider it.
Werefox Lycanthropy is different.
Of course it is, otherwise it wouldn't justify the XP cost to gain it. Still, I would rule that spending the XP (and thereby embracing your accursed, savage nature) is an Act of Ultimate Darkness. The RL3E specifically says that powers checks are self-inflicted curses, where the curser and the accursed are the same person. I'd say this qualifies!
This means the PC gets an appropriate bonus in addition to the lycanthropy, but it also means that she gets an appropriate penalty. For a ranger, perhaps animals sense her unnatural aura and avoid her. For more powers check failures, the results could be hatred instead of avoidance.
Your PC could certainly stay CG at the beginning but as she embraces more and more her newfound powers, her AL would slide from CG to CN and, finally, to CE.
Or.. she could take a trip to Verbrek, join the Duskpeace Outcasts and hope for the best...
If all else fails, raise the XP cost from 100 to 1000. It seems ridiculously low to me (probably because it was designed for NPCs).
Not to mention that the rules have made crystal clear in the past that any lycanthrope within RL is susceptible to 'triggers', even if the rest of the time it can shapechange at will.
Where are you finding these rules? I'm looking in the RL3E p189 and it only covers triggers for afflicted lycanthropes.
It's only good sense though. If an afflicted lycanthrope suffers from a specific triggers linked to its "parent", then the progenitor of the line should suffer from it too.. to some degree (obviously, he/she will have greater control over it having been born a lycanthrope).
That's a weakness clever PC might use against the progenitor.. assuming they manage to deduce it from watching one of the afflicted ones.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp
Pretty much the PC would still have some vestage of who she was, thus could gain the template without adding a pile of ECL on her, but of course I'll make it tough for her to remain "Good". Werefoxes need 5 pounds of raw meat a day (According to the Souls suppliment), 2.5 cause her alignment is still good. She'll definatly suffer from evil tempations, lets face it, she can stare people at people and Charm them with her bewitching gaze. Eventually she'll abuse it in some way, and start manipulating people, stealing, and becomming decadant (Aka more alignment shifts and dark power checks). And of course there is the problem that if she dosen't get food she'll feel mighty hungry, and eventually even her friends will look like appatisers (Maybe requiring a will save to resist, as the hunger overwealms her). And yes, the werefox who got away is still plotting revenge, and likey she'll show up again in the future.
I perfur to go by 2nd Ed rules when it comes to templates and ECL. Basically I put trust in DM's call. In 2nd ed you could play as pretty much anything you wanted with the right suppliments, without all that ECL BS, but in the end the decision to ALLOW them was up to the DM. I trust DM's to keep game balance by deciding what and what is not allowed, rather than using Savage Species (Which Sucks as it dosen't make sence racial ablites would advance in a class like fashion), or using ECL modifiers. A werefox in my opinion can gain levels at the same rate as 0 ECL pc's. As for NPC's the are what level is appropiate for the game
Well I don't believe in ECL or Savage Species type advancement. I've always hated the fact that D&D 3/3.5 tries to balance advancement by handycapping more powerful races and their level advancement, which really dosen't make sence to me. In the D&D world NOT ALL RACES are created equal, but that dosen't mean they're any less capeable of gaining levels. For instance a Tiefling (An ECL +1 creature) gains levels slower than a regular 0 ECL creature. Why would the tiefling having exactly the same potential for advancement as a 0 ECL character? They're intelligent (If not more so), than an ECL 0 character, but D&D tries to make up excuses of putting ECL for game balance, when pratically it shoulden't exist.
It's not about making excuses but about preserving game balance. Honestly, given the choice between playing a 'simple' human and a shadow-touched reptilian ogre, most people will go for the latter because - sadly enough - the latest generation of gamers are of the powergaming kind. So ECL are there for two reasons:
1) make sure all players are on equal footing
2) give DM a way to see at a glance just how.. ah.. ill-advised allowing a certain race to their players would be
Plus it's logical. If creatures with an ECL above 0 had as easy a time as others to advance in whatever classes they wanted, ECL 0 races would have been eradicated long ago. I, for one, am thankful that the Ogre Mage wizard my party is fighting had to sweat to gain a paltry few levels of mage rather than use his innate abilities to gain xp fast and easy!
Well I don't believe in ECL or Savage Species type advancement. I've always hated the fact that D&D 3/3.5 tries to balance advancement by handycapping more powerful races and their level advancement, which really dosen't make sence to me. In the D&D world NOT ALL RACES are created equal, but that dosen't mean they're any less capeable of gaining levels. For instance a Tiefling (An ECL +1 creature) gains levels slower than a regular 0 ECL creature. Why would the tiefling having exactly the same potential for advancement as a 0 ECL character? They're intelligent (If not more so), than an ECL 0 character, but D&D tries to make up excuses of putting ECL for game balance, when pratically it shoulden't exist.
actually, it does make sense. for exactly the reason you stated, the ECL 0 and ECL +1 aren't equal. When faced with the same obstacle the ECL +1 has it easier, theoreticly just as easy as a character one level higher. and they learn slower for the same reason, namely that they face less of a challenge. so unless you're going to scrap the entire concept behind the challenge rateing system, and not grant exp to characters based on the challenge they overcome then the above quote isn't even an illogical point of view so much as... um... gibberish.
for further details I would refer you to Why are drow so lazy by sean K. Reynolds
A werefox in my opinion can gain levels at the same rate as 0 ECL pc's.
should I assume that this also means that a 5th level character in your opinion can gain levels at the same rate as 1st level pc's?
Its like saying an Astral Deva (ECL 20), can't gain character levels, despite being superior in every way to a human being.
And you weren't listening either, it seems. I would find it logical for an Astral Deva to gain character levels, just not as 'easily' as, say, a 'simple' human being. In other words, class gain: yes. Same rate of gaining levels: no.
Scientists believe that the Neanderthal man had better senses, better reflexes, better strength than the Cro-Magnon, and despite the popular misconception, the two subspecies were basically equal in brain power. So why did the Cro-Magnon survive while the Neanderthal went extinct? The most widely accepted answer is that they were indeed handicapped by their strengths, just as ECL's would suggest. Neanderthals solved most problems by doing what they always did, only trying harder. Cro-Magnons couldn't do that; they had to try something different. Thus Cro-Magnons became more creative and learned faster than Neanderthals, despite--or even due to--being at the shallow end of the gene pool in so many ways.
Applying this to our ranger, every time she relies on her lycanthropy, she's learning how to be a better lycanthrope, not a better ranger. A situation that would challenge her to push her ranger skills to the limit--and thus help her increase them--might cease to be a challenge when she remembers to use her charm gaze. No challenge, no XP. Thus she's using her ranger powers less and gaining them at a slower rate.
Without ECL a party of four Astral Devas with 1 class level each would gain xp for defeating 6 kobolds.
Based on innate racial abilities and powers alone this is so not a challenge it is ridiculous.
Using ECL we can see what CR encounters would be reasonable enough to challenge an Astral Deva, in this case the same CR encounters that would challenge a 20th level character.
Now for using "monster levels" I don't believe everything is a gradual progression, in fact the gradual progression of gaining racial abilities by "class levels" so seriously ill-fits certain creatures as to be silly. Coming into being a way, be a certain way at a chronologically determined point of maturity (ie being physically 'adult' as an aspect of age rather than experience) or sudden or specific time-based transformations are not well suited for level progression.
Concerning the were-fox dilemma, take the character from the Player, this is Ravenloft after all and the choice to be evil means loss of the character. Sure the character may be happy and doing well but it won't belong to the player any more. From PC to NPC only takes a few bad character choices and adding the letter 'N' to the front.
The first thing that should come to mind when such change falls upon a person is how that person goes about perceiving and subsequently dealing with that change. Suddenly, they're "not themselves", they begin to think or act differently, whether they know that or not. In this case, the cravings and power that comes with lycanthropy, or, therianthropy to be more precise/****.
One of your mates just discovered heroin, got hooked, and is trying to cope with the fixes and lack of fixes.
The second thing involves the perception(s) of others with this change. Suddenly their mate just got "weird". Eventually they will become more attuned to the changes overtaking that person; especially those of a sensory nature. And depending how their friend is taking these changes, maybe the first sign is of them becoming more reclusive...an attempt to hide (cope with) these overwhelming carnal urges.
You and the crew suspects your mate has a drug problem. All it takes is one look and you know that that person is possessed by some form of demon.The track marks become proof enough. Your friend is a borderline ghoul...
The third is confrontation. The spit just got heavy, and their mate needs to be talked to. The crew is finding it hard to keep their conversations hushed, and this may or may not be noticed by their afflicted mate. How they deal with these conversations, that they can hear as plain as day because of their acute hearing, really depends on how hard the battle is going for them. Paranoia, jealousy, hatred, rage...probably in that order.
The crew decides to do a group intervention, in the hopes of solidifying the problem, and then solving it. Your friend needs to be rescued...
Would you bail on your friend??
You can probably see where this is going...
What it all boils down to is this: such a change in a D&D character is in actuality a great way for the crew 'round the wood to show off and further develop their roleplaying abilities. Cliche maybe, but cliche is just another word for "classic", hey? ;)
Let the change become a slow but progressive change of personality (alignment), and see how all the others respond. Who knows?, maybe the character in question won't make that much of a change (CG to CE); it all depends on the efforts of their mates, right? Don't just take away the player's character sheet. That's a cop-out. So says me anyway. Focus the campaign (or adventure) with a more introspective lens...one PC is now the enemy, but the others are forced to deal with this enemy in a much different light. This beast is their buddy man! If they have any kind of care for them then they can't just put them down like the faceless menaces of the past. They'll be forced to do everything in their power to exhaust every avenue before they even contemplate destructive measures (what I like to call in cases like this "Final Rest"). And this doubt will, inevitably, be a factor for practically every encounter afterwards. More often than not there are people behind the monster. Anybody can pick up a torch and pitchfork and destroy evil; it's a rare breed (classic Ravenloft PC) that will try and redeem it...
Focus on what makes the crew gel, and you'll get the answer to your problem...is what I'm really trying to say...
If it's powerplay over roleplay, then you got to have a little sit-down with the player...if it don't sit too well with you and the others. Keep everybody on the same page, or, try to.
Forgive me if my input is a little, uhmm, eclectic...
Well I don't believe in ECL or Savage Species type advancement. I've always hated the fact that D&D 3/3.5 tries to balance advancement by handycapping more powerful races and their level advancement, which really dosen't make sence to me. In the D&D world NOT ALL RACES are created equal, but that dosen't mean they're any less capeable of gaining levels. For instance a Tiefling (An ECL +1 creature) gains levels slower than a regular 0 ECL creature. Why would the tiefling having exactly the same potential for advancement as a 0 ECL character? They're intelligent (If not more so), than an ECL 0 character, but D&D tries to make up excuses of putting ECL for game balance, when pratically it shoulden't exist.
first of all, back when i was playing second ed, i seem to remember every dm i knew (myself included) giving players in mixed parties level creation penalties for playing more powerful races. they were just house rules. third ed just codifies this with core rules
second, i don't think the argument centers around the creatures advancing more slowly per se. i mean, if you're playing a campaign where the highest level ogre can be 2nd level, that doesn't mean that ogres out there are advancing more slowly. that just means that the dm only wants the 2nd level slice of an individual's advancement to be reflected in your party. if a new player is given a level limit of starting at 7th level, it doesn't mean he or she advanced more slowly than those 20th level characters out there. it just means the dm doesn't want one to be played. if advancement rate is your issue, then your real problem is with encounter levels and experience gain in 3rd ed. while i agree its a little cumbersome for dms, it makes sense. i mean, 10th level parties really don't gain experience for killing individual goblins. 2nd ed rules even backed this up in a text box somewhere in the dmg, but they left the decision ad hoc for the dm. which is ok if that's what your comfortable with, but a system is designed to handle situations, and if you throw out the rules to rein in your campaign, you might as well hand out capricious, arbitrary experience points and treasure, and then it doesn't matter what class level your individual party members are (except for game balance)
the point is, this isn't like the level limits from 2nd ed. we're not saying that more powerful creatures advance more slowly, only that they reflect more powerful beings and actually learn on the curve that they're challenged on