All in all, the book left me disgusted. Anyone else have similar feelings (or different opinions for that matter)?
I actually like Coryn's character, a lot. I was disappointed that the moons' only reason for not making her head of the conclave was that she used sorcery in the final battle against that rogue sorcerer. I mean, come on, she saved the tower, the wizards, and even the Conclave. At least she got her rightful spot as head of the White Robes.
As far as age, Raist was 19 when he took the test. Keep in mind, she is a magical prodigy. Also, chances are, many of the spells she was casting were using chaos energy to power them, rather than deific intervention. If that is the case, then it isn't so hard to understand why she had such mastery. (Imagine sorcery had existed in D&D rules when Raistlin's story was being developed!)
I really don't see how she could have used Wild Magic to help her master High Sorcery. WC made it pretty clear that one was anthema to the other, and the Gods considered Wild Magic to be a blasphemy.
On the Dragonlance Nexus site, a member posted a custom class (the High Sorcerer) as an explanation for Coryn's abilities. Essentially, it is a spontaneous casting wizard with the background of being "a person naturally able to draw upon the power of the moons of magic," which is something I really did not care for. It dumps centuries of wizardly tradition down the drain, not to mention having the potential to cause conflict. Imagine...in the Order you have on one hand wizards who mastered their art through years of dedication and practice; on the other hand you have these "High Sorcerers" who are just "blessed" with magical power. Tell me that won't cause a little friction.
As far as Coryn, I think the point was that she wasn't a wizard during the book. She was casting "wizard" spells in a sorcerer's manner. I don't think she was actually a true wizard until the story ended and the gods gave her the chance to lead the white robes. (This is merely opinion, but I figure it makes the most sense, since I do agree that no one should be able to master true wizard spells that quickly.)
On the topic of throwing wizardly tradition down the drain, I have felt all along that the sorcerer class did that. In reality, what is the benefit of being a wizard in modern D&D? You cannot argue that the spells are better, since almost all wizard spells are available to a sorcerer at some point or another. And the spell progression charts don't seem to give much benefit to wizards.
You cannot argue that the spells are better, since almost all wizard spells are available to a sorcerer at some point or another. And the spell progression charts don't seem to give much benefit to wizards.
Sorcerers lag behind wizards when it comes to which levels they can start to cast the more powerful spells. A wizard can cast a spell of a given level before his sorcerer friend can. The sorcerer doesn't need to prepare his spells, but he only has a limited selection - he can cast many more spells per day than he has spells known, in fact. It makes the sorcerer a good character for people who don't like to plan ahead too much, but not a very good character for people who like broader access to spells.
Added to that the fact that sorcerers who use metamagic cast their spells slower than wizards, and you can begin to see that there are good sides and bad sides to these spellcasters.
Cheers,
Cam
As far as Coryn, I think the point was that she wasn't a wizard during the book. She was casting "wizard" spells in a sorcerer's manner. I don't think she was actually a true wizard until the story ended and the gods gave her the chance to lead the white robes. (This is merely opinion, but I figure it makes the most sense, since I do agree that no one should be able to master true wizard spells that quickly.)
Actually, she became a wizard when she completed the test and walked through the portal to be with her Grandma. The Master gave her the white robes and, poof, she's a wizard.
IMO only, though. 
That said I did enjoy Wizards Conclave, very much, and that aside I felt that it was a good book. Well, I read WC a few months back, and I totally loved it. Although Dalamar is a cool character, I must admit to never actually liking him. (Perhaps because my introduction to him was that he was a spy for the Conclave against Raistlin, but that is neither here nor there.)
I actually like Coryn's character, a lot. I was disappointed that the moons' only reason for not making her head of the conclave was that she used sorcery in the final battle against that rogue sorcerer. I mean, come on, she saved the tower, the wizards, and even the Conclave. At least she got her rightful spot as head of the White Robes.
As far as age, Raist was 19 when he took the test. Keep in mind, she is a magical prodigy. Also, chances are, many of the spells she was casting were using chaos energy to power them, rather than deific intervention. If that is the case, then it isn't so hard to understand why she had such mastery. (Imagine sorcery had existed in D&D rules when Raistlin's story was being developed!)
Raistlin was really 21 when he took the test. It's in Dragons of Autumn Twilight. During that book both Caramon and Raistlin are 26 years old. In legends they are 28 years old. The last time they saw their friends was 5 years before DoAT. 26 - 5 = 21...
I did want to clarify one point mentioned above, though.
On the Dragonlance Nexus site, a member posted a custom class (the High Sorcerer) as an explanation for Coryn's abilities. Essentially, it is a spontaneous casting wizard with the background of being "a person naturally able to draw upon the power of the moons of magic," which is something I really did not care for. It dumps centuries of wizardly tradition down the drain, not to mention having the potential to cause conflict. Imagine...in the Order you have on one hand wizards who mastered their art through years of dedication and practice; on the other hand you have these "High Sorcerers" who are just "blessed" with magical power. Tell me that won't cause a little friction.
That's one of my creations, actually.
I get the feeling that you might have missed a few points with the High Sorcerer, so I thought I'd clarify some.
Look at the spells section again, and you'll see that the High Sorcerer's spells functions much like the spells readied from Arcana Evolved. In essence, what the High Sorcerer does is to memorize his spells each day (as does a wizard), but he can cast the ones he memorizes in any combo.
That's not to say there aren't drawbacks. He learns spells at a slower rate than a wizard, and doesn't cast as many spells per day as a sorcerer. Their bonus feats are limited to metamagic feats (no item creation feats). Plus, there's no familiar.
So my take is that since Coryn acted a bit both like a wizard and a sorcerer, she was perhaps somewhere in between. More than likely, that's a literal interpretation of her epiphany. My own interpretation is that she carried over some of her existing sorcerer talent.
Try out the High Sorcerer sometime and let me know how it works out in game play.
though I can see why people didn't care for Coryn's natural talent with magic. In essence, she is meant to be a "magical Mozart". In other words, she's a "child prodigy" where magic is concerned. That's the basic concept that Margaret Weis came up with for the character.
Awe true fact, I should probably re-word my opinion, and in modern times there are musical prodigies, artistic prodigies and such, I don't dislike them, so, Coryn being a gifted wizard or sorcerer, should not leave me any disdained thoughts. I think I just see as if I were say, Dalamar or Jenna, and if I were them I, pesonally, would be resentful, so as a reader I feel for some of my favorite characters, and even feel protective over them, Silly I know :P, I will keep an open mind about her situation though, Its only fair.
Imagine Joe Wizard, who studied all his life to become a wizard, dedicating himself fully to the study of magic. Then in waltzes Coryn, who is a natural talent with magic and learns everything you know and more in a month. Joe Wizard would definitely be quite resentful!
I did enjoy the reading for the most part, though. I think as a character she could still have some potential for more story (I guess one would hope so being Head of the White Robes), and I think she's in one of the Solamnic books (guy w/a flaming sword or something). Probably her greatest redeeming quality is that she was once a primal sorceress. Well, actually, she really didn't have much to do with that since it was sort of a natural thing for her. I guess, imho, her greatest potential redeeming quality would be if she uses her understanding of primal sorcery in some interesting and wise manner...hopefully to address the sor/wiz conflict or something, but any mention of it at all would be interesting.
Well, the idea went over pretty well and it still gave Coryn the feel of a prodigy since usually doujitsu users in myth and manga are conscidered "natural genius" for their capability. just my two cents.
Look at the spells section again, and you'll see that the High Sorcerer's spells functions much like the spells readied from Arcana Evolved. In essence, what the High Sorcerer does is to memorize his spells each day (as does a wizard), but he can cast the ones he memorizes in any combo.
That's not to say there aren't drawbacks. He learns spells at a slower rate than a wizard, and doesn't cast as many spells per day as a sorcerer. Their bonus feats are limited to metamagic feats (no item creation feats). Plus, there's no familiar.
So my take is that since Coryn acted a bit both like a wizard and a sorcerer, she was perhaps somewhere in between. More than likely, that's a literal interpretation of her epiphany. My own interpretation is that she carried over some of her existing sorcerer talent.
Try out the High Sorcerer sometime and let me know how it works out in game play.
Thanks for clarifying that, Dragonhelm, I did miss a few points. Next time I play a DL campaign, I'll give it a try. Also, thanks to everbody for posting on this thread, its nice to see so many different views on the matter
i still have to read the book.
so what level would this magic girl be in dnd?
That's a good question, i have not read the book yet, but i'm wondering how this girl's abilities would be translated to D&D. I mean, for what i've read here this girl far more powerful than two archmages, ARCHMAGES! (they might not have the PrC but tradionally -AD&D- an archmage is at least 18th level...ok, I know Dalamar is 17th but he might have gained a level or two after WoS).
Many writers don't respect/know game rules so they do "cool" stuff for a novel without thinking of the chaos they're about to unleash among gamers (like Mina killing khellendros with a lightningbolt...yeah right... they had to create a 9th level spell to explain this). So perhaps in a future supplement like "Heroes and Villians from Ansalon" we'll find a Prc class called "Osmose Mage" or "Spell Mime", who knows.
Anyway, there's a question in the air: what level would this magic girl be in dnd?[/
That's a good question, i have not read the book yet, but i'm wondering how this girl's abilities would be translated to D&D. I mean, for what i've read here this girl far more powerful than two archmages, ARCHMAGES! (they might not have the PrC but tradionally -AD&D- an archmage is at least 18th level...ok, I know Dalamar is 17th but he might have gained a level or two after WoS).
Many writers don't respect/know game rules so they do "cool" stuff for a novel without thinking of the chaos they're about to unleash among gamers (like Mina killing khellendros with a lightningbolt...yeah right... they had to create a 9th level spell to explain this). So perhaps in a future supplement like "Heroes and Villians from Ansalon" we'll find a Prc class called "Osmose Mage" or "Spell Mime", who knows.
Anyway, there's a question in the air: what level would this magic girl be in dnd?[/
Actually Thakisis kills Skie, not Mina.
Now in the Wizards Conclave, it comes out that Dalamar has felt cheated that he was never the head of the conclave and it is his rightful place. To me Dalamar should be the head sbecause he was the previous head and it wasn't his fault that the wizards lost their power. And yet he rants for many pages of the fact he has never been head. I am very confused did Niles mix something up or did Weiss and Hickman use wrong language in the fact that Dalamar wasn't the head but merely leading the wizards through the time of crisis. I don't know just really confused.
Actually Thakisis kills Skie, not Mina.
That is incorrect. Mina utilizes a spell that will reflect the spell or ability at the user, infusing it with unholy energies.
I think the true question in the wizards conclave is why isn't Dalamar the head of the conclave. In Dragons of Summer Flame, Dalamar is said repeatedly throughout the book to be the new head following Justarius's death. I can not find the page but I know that even he talks about it in the book. To me after reading DoSF I would assume the Dalamar is the last head of the conclave.
Now in the Wizards Conclave, it comes out that Dalamar has felt cheated that he was never the head of the conclave and it is his rightful place. To me Dalamar should be the head sbecause he was the previous head and it wasn't his fault that the wizards lost their power. And yet he rants for many pages of the fact he has never been head. I am very confused did Niles mix something up or did Weiss and Hickman use wrong language in the fact that Dalamar wasn't the head but merely leading the wizards through the time of crisis. I don't know just really confused.
Dalamar was head of the Conclave once, but with dire consequences. He was pretty beat up by the end of Summer Flame, so I wouldn't blame him for not pushing harder to become the head of the Conclave again.
Thing is, it is the consensus spell that determines who the head of the Conclave should be. Dalamar stated that he'd want to stay in the Towers and rebuild from within, while Jenna wanted to go out into the world. The consensus, so to speak, was that Jenna's position would be more beneficial to the WoHS. That's why she's leader. Not that Dalamar isn't capable and not that he doesn't have the experience. Just that the Conclave felt that Jenna would do best by the WoHS in general.
Personally if I was head of either of the other two orders I would not mind her being the head of the white robes. Of course I llok at it like this, she is young (21 I think), Dalamar has already "wooed" her once, Although she might know magic and know how it is cast she does not necesarrily know everything she needs to know about being the head of an order. Hence she should be fairly easy to "push" around. Or at least easier than some old hand at it.
Indeed, though Coryn is magically gifted, she demonstrates repeatedly throughout the book that she is lacking in "practical" knowledge of WoHS matters. She also tended to be a little hot headed and impetuous at times. She simply did not have the exerience or maturity necessary to lead the conclave.
On page 209, of the DLCS, 411 AC-The Last Conclave, it says that Palin is the HEAD of the conclave and disbands the orders.
As these are both entries in the same reference book I would take it that if someone was head of the conclave it would say "head" rather than leader. Also I just do not accept that Dalamar would accept Palin being the head of the conlave whiel Dalamar was still alive regardless of the situation.
In summary I would conclude that the conclave simply acted as if Dalamar was the head of the conclave even if he was never officially sworn in (hence no consensus spell).
One might even say that Dalamar was the "Vice President" of teh conclave when the wizards assaulted Storm's keep as they do not bother to say who is in charge of the white robes. So when Justarius dies Dalamar acts as the "President" of the conclave by default but is never actually the "president" as he is never sworn in.
Besides even if was the head of the conclave how long did it last, two years? For an elf that is an eyeblink, so it would stand to reason he would feel that he was never head of the conclave.
Just rogue/indepedant wizards.
That is incorrect. Mina utilizes a spell that will reflect the spell or ability at the user, infusing it with unholy energies.
Oh yeah, she was a cleric of Takhisis, like Verminaard and such so all the spells and powers are really Takhisis' powers flowing through a mortal.
Oh yeah, she was a cleric of Takhisis, like Verminaard and such so all the spells and powers are really Takhisis' powers flowing through a mortal.
What kills a person, the gun or the bullet? No matter which one you choose, you're still wrong, it's the gaping hole in the body. How about we compromise and say Takhisis and Mina both killed Skie simultaneously.
P.S I took that character test that elvenwizard did, and I am Neutral Neutral Elven Sorcerer
I am a 'Lawful Good Elf Bard'....bard?.I was like -50.2 in anything fighting, warrior-ish or mathematic.. 
:D That might make for an interesting feat, Ares. Whatever the case, good flavor to it.
Wow. Thanks. ;)
That might make for an interesting feat, Ares. Whatever the case, good flavor to it.
Wow. Thanks. ;) :D
double post sorry, not on purpose!
It's ironic that Palin becomes the strongest magic user Krynn has ever known and gives up his magic. Maybe he forsaw that if he din't he would have become a Black Robe and followed in his Uncle's footsteps.
There's an analogy between that and Palin's test. Tough, in the end circumstances force him to quit. Palin has paid a high price, for all his knowledge, i understand why he quited, but any DM could end his retirement. But it would be a topic for another thread, yet, if u look at Palin's ability stats they suit better a wizard than a sorcerer, so if Palin would return to High Sorcery he would learn of his true pontencial.
Perhaps Coryn's destiny is to die and inspire Palin to return to High Sorcery (he din't prectice it much time anyway) and take place in the conclave whre he belongs. Guess many of us would like that to happen. :D
But it would be a topic for another thread, yet, if u look at Palin's ability stats they suit better a wizard than a sorcerer, so if Palin would return to High Sorcery he would learn of his true pontencial.
Palin was meant to be a wizard. He did pretty good as a sorcerer, but it wasn't what was meant to be.
Perhaps Coryn's destiny is to die and inspire Palin to return to High Sorcery (he din't prectice it much time anyway) and take place in the conclave whre he belongs. Guess many of us would like that to happen. :D
Palin's tale is done, and his time is gone. Let him live a peaceful retirement with his family and let other heroes come into the spotlight.
How do you feel about Coryn's character in Lord of the Rose compared to Wizards' Conclave?
Leave Palin away, all he did was complain.
Yeah, isn't that just annoying?
I guess I need to check out Lord of the Rose. I have been reluctant to try it, since I am no fan of the Solamnics. They are all high and mighty with their Oath and Measure. Sturm grew on me, since he was more interested in being a Knight, than acting like one. Gerard was also a good one, since he preferred doing what needed to be done, rather than pretend some old rules were applicable to all situations. I digress though.
As far as Palin, he is not the greatest mage of all time. I have gone into detail about this elsewhere (I think on the Dragonlance.com boards.) Basically, at the end of WoS, he is speaking to Raistlin, after being restored to life. The conversation clearly states that he is never going to fulfill the prophecy that he will be the greatest mage of all time. Since now he is fully retired, and plans to stay that way, he can never be the greatest of all.
Now back to Coryn. Let us keep in mind, she saved the Tower, and in effect, the Conclave. Regardless of her past, which by the way, is not so shallow magic-wise, you have to figure the moons are going to appreciate her actions. She was a wild sorcerer her whole life. And she was on her way to learn to practice real magic when the whole Tower situation was brewing. She was thrust into a war, not yet her own, and fought to protect principles she had not yet accepted herself.
Beating on Coryn for not besting a Soulforge is akin to snubbing a child born in poverty for an Oscar after a masterful performance, based solely on the fact that they did not attend a school of the arts to learn the craft. Does this make the individual any less talented? Any less driven to do the job well?
Just some food for thought. :D
Dalamar has too much baggage and not a great amount of menace. I mean, nobody is plotting what Dalamar is going to do next. Among the fanbase, the excitement is all about Willim the Black.
Jenna has always been boring. I can't think of many adventure hooks involving her that I wouldn't use for any other red robed mage.
Coryn is interesting because of her youth and inexperience, so I'm content to let her sit for now. However, she has had it far too easy thus far, and she isn't... inspiring.
That's what I think the biggest problem is. There are no paragons in these three to capture the imagination.
Beating on Coryn for not besting a Soulforge is akin to snubbing a child born in poverty for an Oscar after a masterful performance, based solely on the fact that they did not attend a school of the arts to learn the craft. Does this make the individual any less talented? Any less driven to do the job well?
Just some food for thought. :D
Question- I have seen the term Soulforge several times- in this thread and others, and I have read the book Soulforge, but do not have alot of experience with the term game wise- so what exactly do you mean when you use this term and where does it come from?
So do you think the Raistlin in DoSF is really a disguise avatar for Takhisis? Same thing with Fizban. I think it is, because Raistlin dies in the abyss druing Legends doesn't he???
I don't find any of the three new wizards to be particularly interesting.
Dalamar has too much baggage and not a great amount of menace. I mean, nobody is plotting what Dalamar is going to do next. Among the fanbase, the excitement is all about Willim the Black.
Jenna has always been boring. I can't think of many adventure hooks involving her that I wouldn't use for any other red robed mage.
Coryn is interesting because of her youth and inexperience, so I'm content to let her sit for now. However, she has had it far too easy thus far, and she isn't... inspiring.
That's what I think the biggest problem is. There are no paragons in these three to capture the imagination.
Dalamar has been around since Legends...So I wouldn't say "new"
IMO Dalamar became a Black Robe during Lorac's Dream, when he saw Raistlin in Black Robes defeat Cyan.
Dalamar was a Black Robe a long time before Raistlin was in DoWN. If you read Soulforge it references this fact at least twice.
Also, Dalamar could not have seen Raistlin in the dream due to the fact that only the Heroes of the Lance were there- some actually in the elven forest, the others got drawn in to the dream due to the starjewel or whatever it was called the Strum had.
Dalamar was a Black Robe a long time before Raistlin was in DoWN. If you read Soulforge it references this fact at least twice.
Also, Dalamar could not have seen Raistlin in the dream due to the fact that only the Heroes of the Lance were there- some actually in the elven forest, the others got drawn in to the dream due to the starjewel or whatever it was called the Strum had.
So you are saying that Raistlin and Dalamar knew of eachother during soulforge?
Explain why Kitiara had the same dream and was in it as well?
Also, what about those colors in dragons? What would be their breathig weapon? Sleat for the purple dragon and super hot mud for the yellow?
I was wondering about Yellow Robes and Purple Robes.
Also, what about those colors in dragons? What would be their breathig weapon? Sleat for the purple dragon and super hot mud for the yellow?
I do not really see how your post is related to any subject that is about the Wizard's Conclave. Wizards, I think and there is a precidence for my argument (ie the wizard who paid Raistlin's way to study magic in Soulforge), may ware any color clothing they want, but still need to choose on of the three gods of magic if they want to advance or do not want to be hunted as a renagade.
Also, what about those colors in dragons? What would be their breathig weapon? Sleat for the purple dragon and super hot mud for the yellow?
These chromatic dragons don't belong to dragonlance, in 2e they existed for generitc campaigns. Yet, since dragonlance make emphasis on balance any DM could add 5 neutral species... but wizards are discussed in this thread, not dragons.
So as stated before you can "choose" a side (one of the three moons) and wear whatever you want. You could wear Gold or Platinum Robes or Purple Robes if you like. I guess it's the same as Mace Windu using a purple lightsaber.
It would probably be best to assume that wizards wear the appropriate robes for their Orders. And to stop obsessing about this.
Cheers,
Cam
It would probably be best to assume that wizards wear the appropriate robes for their Orders. And to stop obsessing about this.
Cheers,
Cam
Amen
I really do not care what color their robes are, but what and how they will apply their spells and how far I would trust them- anyone can wear a white robe, the robe is not dangerous- it is the person inside it.
After reading Chapters 1 and 2 of DoSD (alredy red the first two) I just realized something that I haven't realized ten years ago. I think it is safe to say that Nuitari was already in the Blood See during this time and the maelstrom "hid" the tower of high sorcery of Istar and that Nuitari was rebuilding it and gaining his strength and it gave Raistlin the inspiration to become a Black Robe while he was above the tower in the maelstrom. Maybe Nuitari indirectly influenced him during that whole maelstrom incident.
Probably not, no. Still, nice theory!
Cheers,
Cam
Probably not, no. Still, nice theory!
Cheers,
Cam
I guess we'll find out in the Dark Chronicles books.
I guess it's the same as Mace Windu using a purple lightsaber.
Wrong, the purple saber means he has higher martial abilities than the regular jedi so the color of saber represents some sort of rank. On the other hand blue, green and yellow sabers tell more about the jedi's personalty. And red sabers are only for siths or dark jedis.
I tend to agree with Cam on this, lets just assume that they wear the color of their order, maybe not in robes but somewhere or somehow they would incorporate the color somehow.
That's right, Dunbar Mastermater (the last white robed headmaster) used to wear mariner like outfits but he ALWAYS wore a white sash to distiguish him as a white robed mage.
Wrong, the purple saber means he has higher martial abilities than the regular jedi so the color of saber represents some sort of rank. On the other hand blue, green and yellow sabers tell more about the jedi's personalty. And red sabers are only for siths or dark jedis.
Ah, but there are no yellow sabers, at least according to Lucas. Blue and green for Jedi, purple for Mace, red for Sith.
The whole reason for the purple saber was for Samuel L. Jackson to see himself better on screen. Since then, many stories have come about as to why he has an odd-colored saber. One such story said that he studied some Sith techniques, or something to that effect. I don't buy it. ;)
Honestly, I wouldn't put too much stock into saber color. The movies have one thing, the books have another, and GM's for any Star Wars game can decide for themselves.
And though there are similarities between Star Wars and Dragonlance, they are not one and the same. I think Cam summed it up very well above about not obsessing about this. The only other thing I would add is that every wizard's robe is tailored for that wizard, so no two wizards look alike, even if they're in the same order.
That's right, Dunbar Mastermater (the last white robed headmaster) used to wear mariner like outfits but he ALWAYS wore a white sash to distiguish him as a white robed mage.
Mastermate. No "r" on the end. ;)
Also, Palin was the last head of the White Robes, prior to the Last Conclave.
Was Par-Salian alive during Chaos war?
I had the idea Dunbar was the headmaster, must be a mistake in the spanish version.
Dunbar Mastermate is head of the White Robes in The Second Generation, and I believe in the Chaos War as well. After the Chaos War, Palin becomes the head of the White Robes at some point, though they have no magic.
You'll have to forgive me, I'm being a bit nitpicky today. ;)
Was Par-Salian alive during Chaos war?
I don't think he was, though there's nothing that says for certain. Par-Salian was fairly old during the War of the Lance.
After reading Chapters 1 and 2 of DoSD (alredy red the first two) I just realized something that I haven't realized ten years ago. I think it is safe to say that Nuitari was already in the Blood See during this time and the maelstrom "hid" the tower of high sorcery of Istar and that Nuitari was rebuilding it and gaining his strength and it gave Raistlin the inspiration to become a Black Robe while he was above the tower in the maelstrom. Maybe Nuitari indirectly influenced him during that whole maelstrom incident.
I really think that you are reaching too much there. For one- none of the first books forshadow anything that has happened recently- it was only later as pre-Chronicals and Legend boos that were published after did the author try and tie in themes for the first books.
Mastermate. No "r" on the end. ;)
Mastersmate. There's an S in it. ;)
Cheers,
Cam
Mastersmate. There's an S in it. ;)
Holy cats, I've been spelling that wrong since Second Generation came out! :embarrass
I really think that you are reaching too much there. For one- none of the first books forshadow anything that has happened recently- it was only later as pre-Chronicals and Legend boos that were published after did the author try and tie in themes for the first books.
But they could have based the stories of the later trilogies off of chronicles. It's just like the Mortal Kombat storyline. Mortal Kombat 1 was supposed to be the only game. They never knew there was going to be this that and the other, but they based every other story off of MK1. Like Shang Tsung's souls and why Scorpion did this, that and the other.
Spoiler
From Amber and Ashes
Nuitari has repeatedly visited the tower of istar after the cataclysm wishing to recover his lost artifacts. Zeboim however has always made this impossible with her waters and storms and maelstrom. The only reason that Nuitari has seemed to be able to rebuild the towers is because she has kept the seas quiet in order for her father's minotaurs to safely cross the seas. Also because Takhisis removed the maelstrom during her control of the world.
Jurgen 2005, I believe that the events that take place during the Wizard's Conclave happen at approximently the same time as Amber and Ashes (check DL Nexus chrono product listing). As such the tower is being rebuilt as the Orders are being reconstituted, so Dalamar might have knowledge of the tower of Istar at the begining of the next Dark Disciple book.
Also, I've noticed that there were a lot more mages in Chronicles than in any other timeframe, except for maybe wizards conclave or something.
Alright this is a little off topic but I will sttle this question once and for all. Samuel Jackson's character Mace Windu in Star Wars ahs a purple colored lightsaber for one reason and one reason only, he asked. Purple is Mr. Jackson's favorite color in real life and he asked George Lucas if he could have a purple colored lilghtsaber and Geroge said "Ok" It was this simple request that led to other colors of lightsabers for the jedi. This has all been said by Mr. Jackson and Mr. Lucas during numerous T.V. interviews.
Spoiler
From Amber and Ashes
Nuitari has repeatedly visited the tower of istar after the cataclysm wishing to recover his lost artifacts. Zeboim however has always made this impossible with her waters and storms and maelstrom. The only reason that Nuitari has seemed to be able to rebuild the towers is because she has kept the seas quiet in order for her father's minotaurs to safely cross the seas. Also because Takhisis removed the maelstrom during her control of the world.
Jurgen 2005, I believe that the events that take place during the Wizard's Conclave happen at approximently the same time as Amber and Ashes (check DL Nexus chrono product listing). As such the tower is being rebuilt as the Orders are being reconstituted, so Dalamar might have knowledge of the tower of Istar at the begining of the next Dark Disciple book.
a reeeeeeaaaaal quick correction. Tak didn't remove the mailstrom, Chaos got rid of it during the summer of chaos.
a reeeeeeaaaaal quick correction. Tak didn't remove the mailstrom, Chaos got rid of it during the summer of chaos.
Close enough, I didn't have my book handy at the time. Renovating my home office.
Dalamar did not take his test until after the War of the Lance.
Actually I think Dalamar took his test before Raistlin. IN the Soulforge when Antimodes is talking to Par-Salian (when par-salian is preparring for Raisltin's test) they discuss using Raisltin in the coming darkness against the reappearance of Takhisis and her dragons. Antimodes asks what Par will do if Raistlin fails the test and Par mentions that Ladonna has been speaking to him about Dalamar. This woudl indicate (to me at least) that Dalamar has already taken his test as he is a silvanesti and Ladonna is a human (Black Robe no less) and would only have knowledge of Dalamar if he had already taken his test.
Also the Novel Dalamar the Dark takes place before Riverwind evens goes on his quest to find proof of the true gods.
Originally posted by Treymordin
Actually I think Dalamar took his test before Raistlin. IN the Soulforge when Antimodes is talking to Par-Salian (when par-salian is preparring for Raisltin's test) they discuss using Raisltin in the coming darkness against the reappearance of Takhisis and her dragons. Antimodes asks what Par will do if Raistlin fails the test and Par mentions that Ladonna has been speaking to him about Dalamar. This woudl indicate (to me at least) that Dalamar has already taken his test as he is a silvanesti and Ladonna is a human (Black Robe no less) and would only have knowledge of Dalamar if he had already taken his test.
Also the Novel Dalamar the Dark takes place before Riverwind evens goes on his quest to find proof of the true gods.
As has already been stated, Dalamar the Dark takes place during the war against Silvanesti in 349 AC. It spans several years, ending with Dalamar going to meet Raistlin. Since Raistlin took his test in about 346 AC, he was already a wizard. Dalamar, however, spent the time of the War of the Lance living with his people in Silvamori, or whatever the elven colony was called. He had not yet taken his test, as he was still a servant, and thus not considered worthy of the magic. It was not until he was cast out of Silvanesti that he decided to wander for a while, thought about joining up with the remaining highlords, but then decided to go ask to take his test.
It could not take place too long before Riverwind, as the heroes of the lance met with the Qualinesti before they went off to their colony, and the book mentions the Qualinesti and their colony.
You also seem to forget that Ladonna is the head of the black robes, and thus would likely have access to some divination, enabling her to find some noteworthy recruits. Also, if I remember right, Par Salian and Ladonna, BEFORE Dalamar's test, were trying to think of some way to make certain that Raistlin didn't decide to do away with the Conclave.