So anyway, Dragon needs you! By the end of Gen Con (so, by Monday the 22nd of August, which is a week away) we would like to see some Mystara-related article queries/proposals. Send them to Jason Bulmahn at [email]dragon@paizo.com[/email] and make sure to put "MYSTARA" (in all caps) as the first word of the subject line (else they might get lost in the shuffle).
Keep in mind, as you think up ideas to send in, that you will have less than a month in which to write the article. So don't bite off more than you can chew in your proposal.
Also, while the article should be intimately tied to Mystara it should have at least a little appeal to non-Mystara fans.
Other than those guidelines it's pretty much open to whatever you might want to do. If you have any question about the query and submissions process check out our writers guidelines and feel free to post here (I'll check this thread once or twice every day this week). Oh, and don't bother querying for specific articles like Ecology, Spellcraft, or Bazaar of the Bizarre. We're talking features here.
Are you guys looking for monsters? ;)
a question which I can't find a clear answer to in the guidelines. Can you propose an article that is already on public forum or website like the Vaults of Pandius? The guidelines say
Do not submit any manuscript simultaneously to DRAGON and to any other magazine, website, or d20 publisher.
but I don't know if putting something onto a public forum which is then put onto a website counts.
for conversions, monsters that we have on the Creature Catalog site for example, we would have to reconvert and rewrite the flavor text. it's got something to do with copyright issues, and i don't even question it. ;)
i think the policy is not to print something that is already on the web, at least not verbatim. if you posted an article on VoP, you would probably have to rewrite it for Dragon (and even then, it might be too similar).
for conversions, monsters that we have on the Creature Catalog site for example, we would have to reconvert and rewrite the flavor text. it's got something to do with copyright issues, and i don't even question it. ;)
reconvert the monster, would you expect it to be different? Are the conversions on the Creature Catalogue site wrong? :D
the problem is that the conversions are copyright owned by Scott Greene. and other sites that post similar things also have copyrights on their content. for that and other reasons, Paizo needs to take a zero tolerance outlook on reusing things that have already been posted on the internet. even if Scott says he wouldn't sue Paizo for using our conversions, there is no guarantee that another site would not. thus, i'd have to redo conversions from the Creature Catalog site from scratch that i did in the first place if i want to see them printed.
someone from Paizo or WotC could probably explain all that better and more correclty than i can.
yeah yeah, are ya are ya? me and shade are itching to get something printed. :D there are probably more unconverted Mystara monsters than from any other world...
I don't know if we're specifically looking for monsters, but on the other hand I'm not sure we're uninterested in seeing monster conversions. I've heard rumor that we're already running several monster articles in that issue, but I don't know if that means we wouldn't run more. All I can say is shoot a query to Jason (following the guidelines of my first post) and see what he says.
Even if he doesn't accept the monster query for the Campaign Classics issue he might be interested in it for another issue later. I'm honestly unsure.i think the policy is not to print something that is already on the web, at least not verbatim. if you posted an article on VoP, you would probably have to rewrite it for Dragon (and even then, it might be too similar).
for conversions, monsters that we have on the Creature Catalog site for example, we would have to reconvert and rewrite the flavor text. it's got something to do with copyright issues, and i don't even question it. ;)
This is all correct. Paizo buys full rights to our articles, which we can't do if it's already been published. (Don't ask me about the "Knights v. Samurai" article.) If you want to send in something that's already on the Vaults of Pandius you'll need to do enough of a rewrite to make it unsimilar enough that people don't recognize it as the same article. If that makes sense.
there's nothing wrong with them at all. ;) at least the 3.5 ones; the 3.0 ones are just in need of an update.
the problem is that the conversions are copyright owned by Scott Greene. and other sites that post similar things also have copyrights on their content. for that and other reasons, Paizo needs to take a zero tolerance outlook on reusing things that have already been posted on the internet. even if Scott says he wouldn't sue Paizo for using our conversions, there is no guarantee that another site would not. thus, i'd have to redo conversions from the Creature Catalog site from scratch that i did in the first place if i want to see them printed.
someone from Paizo or WotC could probably explain all that better and more correclty than i can.
I'd say your explanation is quite good. The best thing to do when updating a monster is to read all the original sources from OD&D, first edition, and second edition (as appropriate) and write up your version from those. Ignore everything else (especially other conversions on websites). Not because those conversions are wrong or bad or whatever, but because you might subconsciously borrow more from them than you mean to, which can make your conversion too similar to something that already exists. That can lead you (and, by extension, us) to a bit of trouble.
Does that help or am I just clouding the issue? ;)
Here are some ideas (unfortunately I'm too busy to do much myself
)- Radiance rules for 3.5 including the effects of draining from the Sphere of Entopy instead of Energy.
- Glantri Secret Crafts as Prestige Classes (something I am working on but won't be ready in time
)- Mystara Regional feats, spells, domains etc.
Regards,
Gary
Is this going to be a Mystara only Campaign Classics issue, a mixture like the previous, or can't you say? :D
Regards,
Gary
Hi guys,
Here are some ideas (unfortunately I'm too busy to do much myself
- Radiance rules for 3.5 including the effects of draining from the Sphere of Entopy instead of Energy.
- Glantri Secret Crafts as Prestige Classes (something I am working on but won't be ready in time
- Mystara Regional feats, spells, domains etc.
Regards,
Gary
Just a warning about the Glantri Secret Crafts, an old Mongoose book by some author I can't remember ripped off those pages from the Gazeteer and already updated them to 3.0 format. Since it was never challenged, some people who didn't know Glantri might see an article in Dragon detailing the secret crafts and think Paizo ripped off Mongoose.
I wonder if a War Machine revision to 3.5 would be of interest to people outside of Mystara? An adaption/conversion of the rules to 3.5, plus adding in some feats and a prestige class that specializes in mass combat.
I'm interested! AFAIK, 3E is greatly lacking in mass combat rules. It might be by design though.
This is all correct. Paizo buys full rights to our articles, which we can't do if it's already been published. (Don't ask me about the "Knights v. Samurai" article.) If you want to send in something that's already on the Vaults of Pandius you'll need to do enough of a rewrite to make it unsimilar enough that people don't recognize it as the same article. If that makes sense.
Nah that makes sense thanks Mike, I just thought that this point was probably best being raised.
Just a warning about the Glantri Secret Crafts, an old Mongoose book by some author I can't remember ripped off those pages from the Gazeteer and already updated them to 3.0 format. Since it was never challenged, some people who didn't know Glantri might see an article in Dragon detailing the secret crafts and think Paizo ripped off Mongoose.
Never knew that, thanks for the info.
Regards,
Gary
Mike,
Is this going to be a Mystara only Campaign Classics issue, a mixture like the previous, or can't you say? :D
Regards,
Gary
A mix it shall be.
I wonder if a War Machine revision to 3.5 would be of interest to people outside of Mystara? An adaption/conversion of the rules to 3.5, plus adding in some feats and a prestige class that specializes in mass combat.
Oh wow, I love that system!
I'd personally love to see a 3.5 update of it, but that's not really up to me. It's also not strictly a Mystara thing, so just query it as a general article (that helps the chances of acceptance). You know, to fit in to any issue. Oh wow, I love that system!
I was just looking into this the other day, oddly enough, and it doesn't really seem as if it needs much converting at all, actually. I could see changing the percentile system to a d20 system, possibly, but frankly the whole War Machine really stands alone as its own system. Mentzer did a great job with that one.
I was just looking into this the other day, oddly enough, and it doesn't really seem as if it needs much converting at all, actually. I could see changing the percentile system to a d20 system, possibly, but frankly the whole War Machine really stands alone as its own system. Mentzer did a great job with that one.
One thing that always bugged me about the old War Machine was that weapon types didn't make a difference. In the real world, pole arms wouldn't be much use for an individual fighter (too easy to get inside the reach) but when massed together they become highly effective. But in the game system, there are a million kinds of pole arm with slightly different statistics for personal use, but when you get into mass combat a unit armed with daggers is just as effective! It's exactly backwards!
So if War Machine is gonna be updated anyway, I'd like to see a table of bonuses by opposed weapons similar to the opposed tactics tables.
Also, I think it'd be a good choice for a Mystara article: you could add Mystara-specific content by giving sample armies, but the rules would be of interest to anyone.
Look for example at the situation when your army "cannot damage the enemy". It means the enemy is basically invicible . What does the rules tell you? Simply add +50 to the enemy BR! That's absurd! You still may have chances to win (believe me, I've tested it!)
Also, speaking of Warmachine, in some ways it was TOO simplified and lacking. No rules for strategy, troops movement during battle, and all resolved with the roll of ONE DIE... too simple for me (and I've used it a lot).
Look for example at the situation when your army "cannot damage the enemy". It means the enemy is basically invicible . What does the rules tell you? Simply add +50 to the enemy BR! That's absurd! You still may have chances to win (believe me, I've tested it!)
It's well known that War Machine doesn't balance well for extremely mismatched troops. I'd say that the actual numbers they use don't make very much sense to me at all, actually - some of the modifiers they use for magic seem severely underpowered. Are we talking about rebalancing the whole thing? That's a pretty big job.
I'd say the War Machine is meant for embedding wars into a more narrative game. If it became much more complicated, players who find strategy games too fiddly and time consuming wouldn't want to use it. There are other systems for people who actually do want to require more strategy - Battlesystem when it originally came out, Chainmail now (I assume that's what it is, anyway - I haven't looked at it.)
*fingers crossed*
Anyone else?
Can anyone tease us with what to look for in a forthcoming issue?
well, i don't know about anyone else, but i haven't heard back on my proposal yet. of course, that could just be because it wasn't very interesting. ;)
well, i don't know about anyone else, but i haven't heard back on my proposal yet. of course, that could just be because it wasn't very interesting. ;)
I'm guessing whoever has got past the first cut will probably already be contacted, although of course I'm sure that they couldn't tell us. It would be interesting though Mike if we can find when this issue is coming out?
FWIW, I haven't heard anything yet either. I don't think there would be any prohibitions against saying whether one had been contacted, though. Could be wrong.
well that's a good sign for those who might have put in something, any comments Geoff :D
I'm guessing whoever has got past the first cut will probably already be contacted, although of course I'm sure that they couldn't tell us. It would be interesting though Mike if we can find when this issue is coming out?
The Campaign Classics issue will be out in January.
Jason Bulmahn is in charge of looking through the submissions and picking a few for Wes and me to look at. From that discussion Jason takes what makes it through the three of us and presents that to Erik. Erik, of course, has final say.
We haven't had that meeting yet, so unless Jason is going to just skip past Wes and me and head straight for Erik, nothing has been decided yet. Or rather, nothing has been accepted yet (Jason does reject things without showing them to us).
Hmm...that reminds me. I should bug Jason about that meeting... :lightbulb
The Campaign Classics issue will be out in January.
January, cool thanks Mike.
Jason Bulmahn is in charge of looking through the submissions and picking a few for Wes and me to look at. From that discussion Jason takes what makes it through the three of us and presents that to Erik. Erik, of course, has final say.
We haven't had that meeting yet, so unless Jason is going to just skip past Wes and me and head straight for Erik, nothing has been decided yet. Or rather, nothing has been accepted yet (Jason does reject things without showing them to us).
Hmm...that reminds me. I should bug Jason about that meeting... :lightbulb
Jason must be a ridiculously busy person; i can only imagine.
i suspect, then, that he hasn't responded to anyone yet since Mike, Wes, and Erik haven't looked at any of the submissions.I haven't myself-
- but maybe someone else has? I'm really hoping something Mystaran makes it into the Campaign Classics issue.It's definitely lessened my interest in contacting Paizo about any other projects, to be sure.
did the Mystara article availability get canned or did one person already get contacted and written the article and are just not saying anything here?
Helloooo Mike,
did the Mystara article availability get canned or did one person already get contacted and written the article and are just not saying anything here?
I don't know. Jason never told me what's going on for this. I'm sure he'll look at everything for next year's Campaign Classics articles if he never got around to looking for this year's. I think we're including Mystara stuff, but I have no confirmation of that.
I don't know. Jason never told me what's going on for this. I'm sure he'll look at everything for next year's Campaign Classics articles if he never got around to looking for this year's. I think we're including Mystara stuff, but I have no confirmation of that.
dang, that's a bit dissapointing
dang, that's a bit dissapointing
Yeah, tell me about it.
Me: "We're gonna include Mystara stuff?"
Jason: "Yup. Ask for the folks on the Mystara boards for queries."
Me: "Hee! Done and done!"
*time passes*
Me: "Did you get any Mystara submissions?"
Jason: "Yup."
Me: "And?"
*crickets*
*sigh*
Hope its the former, though. I'd hate to think my creativity has fled from me completely. :P
Hope its the former, though. I'd hate to think my creativity has fled from me completely. :P
I'm 98% certain it's the former. We haven't caught up on submissions since Gen Con, so a lot of submissions are in the holding pattern right now (not just Mystara submissions).
Of course, I can't really talk right now. I'm about a month behind on my submissions and emails. :embarrass
with any luck, the acceptable mytara proposals will filter in during the year.And yes to make a full discloser I did put in a submission which of course wasn't accepted, however I do not think that this colours my views in this matter.
And yes to make a full discloser I did put in a submission which of course wasn't accepted, however I do not think that this colours my views in this matter.
I tend to agree with you (and yes, I did get a rejected proposal myself :P ).
My favorite ideas from my proposal (and I sent a list of several ideas) were ones that were sort of different- and from the list Spellweaver started the other day- seem to have been ideas that several people here would have been interested in.
What I was shooting for was something that diehard fans (us) would be able to use, but that could also appeal to non-Mystara fans as well by either being easily adaptable- in-depth looks at smaller regions of Mystara, such as cities and domains- or tieing in with 3e product lines. Even my "monster conversion" ideas were presented in such a way as to have benefited from and supplemented Serpent Kingdoms (for FR) or the Manual of the Planes/Planar Handbook. I'm hoping that this is the sort of article we see- something that isn't just a bunch of "Mystaran" monster stats- and has tie-ins and/or ecology type information.
In any case, I hope to still make some of the info I was going to write up available to everyone here on the board and MML- some of it was already in some stages of production, some brand new.
SKR?
Sean K. Reynolds.
the ultimate result of this process is apparently going to be some 3E conversions of Mystaran monsters.
I bet it's the Phanaton from the IoD. There were people who were clamoring for them after Dungeon #114's release.
--Ray.
In any case, whatever it/they might be that show up, I really hope it is more than just stat blocks. I'd really like to see something that I can make more creative use of, rather than just something I could have whipped together myself. That's what's going to determine whether I get the issue or not.
I prefer those kinds of articles too, although IMO anything Mystara related would be a pleasant sight. I really liked the article(s?) about the Hollow World, concerning the Lizardman servants of Ka, because they introduced something new to the setting. A new quasi-canonic element for us to play around with.
Cheers,
Håvard
So Dragon is going to have something Mystara related in issue #339. It's going to be monsters. I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of phanatons. The monster article will have 12 monsters, IIRC. I think 3 are from Mystara and the other 9 are from Ravenloft and Greyhawk. All of the monsters have the same treatment in terms of connection to a campaign. Which is to say, not much.
I have to toe the party line, of course, but I'll admit that I'm disappointed by the amount of coverage Mystara is getting. Other settings are getting more, but a lot of settings are getting much less.
So... yay, Mystara! But also... d'oh, three monsters!
It just goes to show that my ability to get Mystara included in the magazine is somewhat limited.
So Dragon is going to have something Mystara related in issue #339. It's going to be monsters. I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of phanatons. The monster article will have 12 monsters, IIRC. I think 3 are from Mystara and the other 9 are from Ravenloft and Greyhawk. All of the monsters have the same treatment in terms of connection to a campaign. Which is to say, not much.
That's too bad, though I'll certainly give it a look through in any case. Is the monster article the entirety of the Campaign Classics theme, or is there going to be more Classics goodness in other articles in the issue? (Not Mystara, obviously, but perhaps for some other OOP worlds).
It just goes to show that my ability to get Mystara included in the magazine is somewhat limited.
We appreciate the effort, in any case. We'll just have to work that much harder to make sure that Mystara gets some further development somewhere. (Maybe try and sneak a Mystara adventure into Dragon or something.
)It just goes to show that my ability to get Mystara included in the magazine is somewhat limited.
Being that it's OOP, I'll take what I can get, and thank you for at least trying to somewhat support what won't be fully supported. :D
Being that it's OOP, I'll take what I can get, and thank you for at least trying to somewhat support what won't be fully supported. :D
or, looking at it another way, being that it's been OOP for so long - and given that the community is still quite active after so long - then there would appear to be a market for more than that.
or, looking at it another way, being that it's been OOP for so long - and given that the community is still quite active after so long - then there would appear to be a market for more than that.
Very true, but I think the only way more support would occur is if it was handled like Dragonlance 3rd ed. And who has the company and epxerience to negotiate a contract outta WotC for the Known World??
or, looking at it another way, being that it's been OOP for so long - and given that the community is still quite active after so long - then there would appear to be a market for more than that.
Agreed. The monster conversions are nice, but we already have people doing this on the boards (not to boast or anything) and they are some of the easier conversions to do. I wish they would have tackled something more complex AND might have been a widespread interest article- the Radiance could make a great article (Spells and PrCs to flesh it out), and I can see it being picked up in Eberron very easily (Blackmoor d20 possibly as well).
Anyway, thanks for the lobbying Mike! Some help is better than none
hey, you never know. Blackmoor, Ravenloft, Dragonlance...
Ravenloft had a very stable company backing the deal, Dragonlance was taken up by people who'd been involved w/ it from day one AND had a game company..Blackmoor...no idea how Dustin and others pulled it off, aside from that Goodman was a stable company (unless someone knows more than me ;) ).
WHO could take up the mantle of the KW and has a company to back it up??
Ravenloft had a very stable company backing the deal, Dragonlance was taken up by people who'd been involved w/ it from day one AND had a game company..Blackmoor...no idea how Dustin and others pulled it off, aside from that Goodman was a stable company (unless someone knows more than me ;) ).
Speculation: It was probably useful to have Dave Arneson's name involved, especially since relations problems between Arneson and TSR were made ancient history with WotC and 3E.
WHO could take up the mantle of the KW and has a company to back it up??
Some possibilities:
* KenzerCo: They are still working on HackMaster Mystara at least, though bringing in Mystara as a D20 setting would probably be in conflict with Kalamar.
* Bruce Heard: I was hoping for a while that Bruce would be interested in doing this on his own. He was actively pushing for TSR to bring up Mystara again, as well as WotC, though he might not have had the finances/time to do it himself. Also, he has not been heard (no pun intended) from in recent years. Still, he would be the most likely individual (non-company) candidate.
* ZGG/GMG: I suspect this has been considered by ZGG, though probably not very seriously. ZGG will most likely focus on Blackmoor, though Mystara could be a useful extenstion for them if they want to expand on the setting. I also would not mind GMG doing Mystara on their own either, though it looks like they are focusing on publishing for other companies rather than making their own games.
* Green Ronin: I love the stuff these guys are making. They are involved in a lot of different settings right now, but it wouldnt be beyond them to do such a thing if they could get a decent deal with WotC.
* Paizo: I would love to see them publish a World of the Princess Ark sourcebook, featuring the entire PA series as well as player guidelines and an introduction to the Known World Setting....
All this boils down to a question of money, incentive and not the least what WotC's policy on lisencing out their settings from now on will be. (WotC attitudes have clearly varied on this issue during the last five years...)
Håvard
--Ray.
I brought this up before over on the Paizo BB. They didn't bite because of Eric Mona's interest in Greyhawk, IMO. This isn't a bad thing.....just not a good thing for the KW/Mystara. We need a home and a source book!
--Ray.
True, but the PA series would be an appropriate thing to publish, all things considered.
True, but the PA series would be an appropriate thing to publish, all things considered.
Yeah! I dont think that idea was ever really discarded, though Erik Mona listed some arguments against it. I guess what he said was that it depended on the sales of the current hard cover books they have planned (The Best of... and Age of Worms) if they were going to do further similar products, but the PA (albeit with 3.5 rules) was something they would consider. IMHO it would make sense to include at least a few pages in such a book about the Known World and Mystara in general before going onto the PA storyline and the countries explored on its journeys. Would be fun if they could get Bruce to work on it too, and perhaps write a few more episodes just for the hard cover version....
Oh well, we'll see...
Håvard
Ravenloft had a very stable company backing the deal, Dragonlance was taken up by people who'd been involved w/ it from day one AND had a game company..Blackmoor...no idea how Dustin and others pulled it off, aside from that Goodman was a stable company (unless someone knows more than me ;) )
Well, Ravenloft had good backing, but it didn't last long anyway. And Blackmoor probably was published because the original author still had rights to it. Licensing cost seem to be too high for smaller companies.
Well, Ravenloft had good backing, but it didn't last long anyway. And Blackmoor probably was published because the original author still had rights to it. Licensing cost seem to be too high for smaller companies.
Dustin of Zeitgeist had said WotC owns Blackmoor, its licensed (sp? jeez im dumbb) to Zeitgeist.
the "next month" preview said 16... did some get cut?
Unfortunately, yes.
That's too bad, though I'll certainly give it a look through in any case. Is the monster article the entirety of the Campaign Classics theme, or is there going to be more Classics goodness in other articles in the issue? (Not Mystara, obviously, but perhaps for some other OOP worlds).
The entire issue is chock-full of OOP world goodness. In fact, only the letters, Class Acts, and the comics are not related to a campaign setting. Actually, the Knowledge Check in letters is campaign-setting related. Even Sage Advice is about a campaign setting.
We appreciate the effort, in any case. We'll just have to work that much harder to make sure that Mystara gets some further development somewhere. (Maybe try and sneak a Mystara adventure into Dragon or something.
Thanks. I keep pushing. I think you mean Dungeon there, and I've talked to James Jacobs about just that. He said that if someone proposed a good adventure that just happened to be set in Mystara/The Known World he would consider it. But it has to be a good adventure first and foremost. Which means it probably won't be written by me! :P
or, looking at it another way, being that it's been OOP for so long - and given that the community is still quite active after so long - then there would appear to be a market for more than that.
Yup. But finding someone to do a Mystara hardcover, while completely awesome, would be tricky. If you assume a book has to sell roughly 3,000 copies to turn a profit (going off estimates I've heard bandied about hereabouts), well... you see what we're up against. The 30 or so of us who frequent these boards would need to each find a bunch of friends to also buy the book.
* Paizo: I would love to see them publish a World of the Princess Ark sourcebook, featuring the entire PA series as well as player guidelines and an introduction to the Known World Setting....
As was pointed out elsewhere in this thread, this has been discussed on our messageboards as well. You can bet your bottom dollar that a few pushes have been made to get Paizo to do something with Mystara.
All this boils down to a question of money, incentive and not the least what WotC's policy on lisencing out their settings from now on will be. (WotC attitudes have clearly varied on this issue during the last five years...)
Yup yup yup. With the recent changes in personnel over there, who knows what the new policy is? Not me! We'll just have to wait and see how things turn out re: licensing.
...
So, in this doomy and gloomy thread, what possible hope have we for a silver lining of Mystaran goodness? What information could I possibly impart to split the veil of rainy sadness that this thread has thus far wrought? What flower-filled pass could we possibly find on the flanks of the insurmountable mountain of despair we are now facing? :raincloud
(How about that for overwrought?) :rolleye2:
Let me throw you guys a teaser.
Erik is working at something you guys are going to love. If he can pull it off, Mystara will appear in the magazine a second time in 2006. If it works out the way we want it to, you guys are gonna love it. I know this because I love it, and you guys are bigger fans of the setting than me. :D
Dustin of Zeitgeist had said WotC owns Blackmoor, its licensed (sp? jeez im dumbb) to Zeitgeist.
You're right.
I like that Erik, Mike, et all at least try to listen to our gripes and demands. :P
Yup. But finding someone to do a Mystara hardcover, while completely awesome, would be tricky. If you assume a book has to sell roughly 3,000 copies to turn a profit.
I would buy four for my group at whatever cost.
Let me throw you guys a teaser.
Erik is working at something you guys are going to love. If he can pull it off, Mystara will appear in the magazine a second time in 2006. If it works out the way we want it to, you guys are gonna love it. I know this because I love it, and you guys are bigger fans of the setting than me. :D
Isle of Dread perhaps?
.......but I'll hope for Castle Amber. How about both? :D --Ray.
Maure Castle-esque? ;) or more like the Isle of Dread or the one with Zargon that have been in the mags in recent years?
I'm not sure just how much Mystara-ness Dungeon will allow. Erik's own beloved Greyhawk only gets mention in passing (like how it's the Free City in "Age of Worms" instead of Greyhawk City). So I imagine a Mystara adventure must have that same level of vagueness to it.
Speculation: It was probably useful to have Dave Arneson's name involved, especially since relations problems between Arneson and TSR were made ancient history with WotC and 3E.
Some possibilities:
* KenzerCo: They are still working on HackMaster Mystara at least, though bringing in Mystara as a D20 setting would probably be in conflict with Kalamar.
* Bruce Heard: I was hoping for a while that Bruce would be interested in doing this on his own. He was actively pushing for TSR to bring up Mystara again, as well as WotC, though he might not have had the finances/time to do it himself. Also, he has not been heard (no pun intended) from in recent years. Still, he would be the most likely individual (non-company) candidate.
* ZGG/GMG: I suspect this has been considered by ZGG, though probably not very seriously. ZGG will most likely focus on Blackmoor, though Mystara could be a useful extenstion for them if they want to expand on the setting. I also would not mind GMG doing Mystara on their own either, though it looks like they are focusing on publishing for other companies rather than making their own games.
* Green Ronin: I love the stuff these guys are making. They are involved in a lot of different settings right now, but it wouldnt be beyond them to do such a thing if they could get a decent deal with WotC.
* Paizo: I would love to see them publish a World of the Princess Ark sourcebook, featuring the entire PA series as well as player guidelines and an introduction to the Known World Setting....
All this boils down to a question of money, incentive and not the least what WotC's policy on lisencing out their settings from now on will be. (WotC attitudes have clearly varied on this issue during the last five years...)
Håvard
There is another option here. A currently small company here in Austin, TX that is not really a contender as of yet, but has just wrestled control of another larger company and the owner of this ambitous co is a huge Mystara fan who has his eyes on somehow getting the rights to revive the whole setting and getting official published materials out on the market once again. His company is still small at the moment and it may go through some name changes so I won't post it yet and he would prefer discretion, but his desire to get some kind of leasing rights to Mystara is not a secret to anyone willing to listen to his ideas. The company he just over will expnd his co into a stable financial foundation with quite a bit of disposable income to throw at something that may end up a loss in the long run, but he is willing to take the risk. At the moment you can call him Mystery Texan.
I'm not sure just how much Mystara-ness Dungeon will allow. Erik's own beloved Greyhawk only gets mention in passing (like how it's the Free City in "Age of Worms" instead of Greyhawk City). So I imagine a Mystara adventure must have that same level of vagueness to it.
any insight into why WotC is so tight with stuff like that? is it because Paizo is another company, or is it because they are not Eberron or Forgotten Realms (i.e., currently supported settings)? and even if they aren't active worlds, so what? oddly enough TSR was never truly hesitant to use Dragon and Dungeon to support inactive camapign worlds (to the best of my recollection). maybe it is a contractural thing.
I'm not sure just how much Mystara-ness Dungeon will allow. Erik's own beloved Greyhawk only gets mention in passing (like how it's the Free City in "Age of Worms" instead of Greyhawk City). So I imagine a Mystara adventure must have that same level of vagueness to it.
That's the sort of thing I was thinking of (and you were right, I meant Dungeon and not Dragon), although perhaps not quite so vague. Something like, for instance, a ruined dwarven city named Jhyrrad or something like that. Hopefully it would cut the muster.
Still working on a really good idea, though.
That's the sort of thing I was thinking of (and you were right, I meant Dungeon and not Dragon), although perhaps not quite so vague. Something like, for instance, a ruined dwarven city named Jhyrrad or something like that. Hopefully it would cut the muster.
Mmmmmh! Thats something I would like to see!
Håvard
Since Immortals can control the dreams of mortals around them, how about an adventure in which the characters unknowingly play half the adventure in a dream world? Various manipulations and tricks by the Immortal could of course reinforce the seeming reality of the dream, and the apparent continuity with the rest of the adventure.
I haven't thought of specifics, but let's make up an example: The PCs are chasing the villain cross country. Eventually they catch him, and succeed in imprisoning him using a special magic item they picked up along the way. They journey back to their sponsor, only to find that they don't have the villain! Confused, they try to piece to together what happened, and probably retrace their steps. Slowly they begin to realise that parts of what they experienced were not real, as the small clues mount up - a ruined farmhouse where they remember enjoying a meal with the family; a beggar who they helped, now seemingly oblivious to their previous encounter.
I'm sure a clever DM could do a lot with this idea, including putting in subtle hints that the dream part is not real. There are lots of other uses too, depending on the circumstances of the campaign, etc. The dream-adventure could bring back a previously-defeated villain, introduce premonitions of what is to come, or even kill off all of the PCs one by one!
Anyhow, back to your scheduled programming. ;)
--Ray.
On the subject of interesting adventure ideas, tonight I was reading Immortal Character Class rules in Wrath of the Immortals, and while reading about incorporeal forms, I came up with a pretty cool idea.
Since Immortals can control the dreams of mortals around them, how about an adventure in which the characters unknowingly play half the adventure in a dream world? Various manipulations and tricks by the Immortal could of course reinforce the seeming reality of the dream, and the apparent continuity with the rest of the adventure.
I haven't thought of specifics, but let's make up an example: The PCs are chasing the villain cross country. Eventually they catch him, and succeed in imprisoning him using a special magic item they picked up along the way. They journey back to their sponsor, only to find that they don't have the villain! Confused, they try to piece to together what happened, and probably retrace their steps. Slowly they begin to realise that parts of what they experienced were not real, as the small clues mount up - a ruined farmhouse where they remember enjoying a meal with the family; a beggar who they helped, now seemingly oblivious to their previous encounter.
I'm sure a clever DM could do a lot with this idea, including putting in subtle hints that the dream part is not real. There are lots of other uses too, depending on the circumstances of the campaign, etc. The dream-adventure could bring back a previously-defeated villain, introduce premonitions of what is to come, or even kill off all of the PCs one by one!
Anyhow, back to your scheduled programming. ;)
Wow that is somthing to consider. I might have to set something like this up for my campaign. Maybe have an adventure where all the characters end up dead and then they all wake up at the end. And still get the xp, but no treasures.
Wow that is somthing to consider. I might have to set something like this up for my campaign. Maybe have an adventure where all the characters end up dead and then they all wake up at the end. And still get the xp, but no treasures.
That's a classic storyline that you can do only once.
Another is devine intervention....."Just as the dread orc's axe drops toward your exposed skull, Ixion comes down and smites him dead! He turns to you and says, 'Now go build my Temple of the Sun.'"
--Ray.
any insight into why WotC is so tight with stuff like that?
A little bit of insight. Some I can even talk about here.
is it because Paizo is another company, or is it because they are not Eberron or Forgotten Realms (i.e., currently supported settings)?
That's the main reason, yes.
and even if they aren't active worlds, so what?
They compete with Eberron and Forgotten Realms, which Wizards of the Coast does not want. Or for sure didn't want at least up until last Thursday.
oddly enough TSR was never truly hesitant to use Dragon and Dungeon to support inactive camapign worlds (to the best of my recollection).
Yes, but... um... well we can see where TSR is these days... ;)
Actually, I don't think there's much reason not to infrequently support the "dead" campaign settings (at least not the ones that don't already have support from other companies). Wizards of the Coast has no problem with us doing the Campaign Classics every year, after all. Having spoken with James Jacobs about this I believe the problem mostly lies in getting good adventure queries that just happen to be set in the Known World (or wherever).
That's the sort of thing I was thinking of (and you were right, I meant Dungeon and not Dragon), although perhaps not quite so vague. Something like, for instance, a ruined dwarven city named Jhyrrad or something like that. Hopefully it would cut the muster.
That's the sort of thing that has the best chance of succeeding in bringing Mystara back to the magazines. Of course, you can try to be sly about it and include a little continuity here and there. The problem, though, is that if you're not up front with James about it being a Mystara adventure he might change a few things that ruin continuity. So be aware that you're going to walk a very thin line to get a Mystara adventure into Dungeon.
That said, though, I know James and Erik are both friendly toward Mystara, even if they aren't necessarily "fans." So I encourage everyone reading this who has ever wanted to write an adventure for Dungeon to set it in Mystara. Go on, send in your queries! Make sure to read their submission guidelines (posted on their website) and then send your queries to [email]dungeon@paizo.com[/email].
Still working on a really good idea, though.
Me too. :D
Good luck, Cthulhudrew and everyone else who sends them queries.
Let me throw you guys a teaser.
Erik is working at something you guys are going to love. If he can pull it off, Mystara will appear in the magazine a second time in 2006. If it works out the way we want it to, you guys are gonna love it. I know this because I love it, and you guys are bigger fans of the setting than me. :D
Despite, I think, the general level of unexcitedness about the outcome of Dragon Magazine 339 for Mystara I hope that this isn't taken as a reason not to go forward with other things in Dragon in the future. But yeah it was a bit annoying the overall lack of Mystara-ness in the issue (and moreso compared to how much stuff had been is issue 315, and even since then).
if there were a separate magazine (you could call it say "Different Worlds" or something equally cheesy) besides Dragon and Dungeon that focused solely on different D&D campaign settings, besides base Forgotten Realms and Eberron. it would be like the Campaign Classics issue, though maybe every other month, and would feature one article per setting to be included.
one month you might get a greyhawk, spelljammer, and mystara; the next month you might get a greyhawk, ravenloft, and dragonlance; the next month you might get a mystara, planescape, and al qadim!
and it doesn't have to be limited to old settings - you could feature campaign material from people's home settings, or build new ones just for the magazine.
if there were a separate magazine (you could call it say "Different Worlds" or something equally cheesy) besides Dragon and Dungeon that focused solely on different D&D campaign settings, besides base Forgotten Realms and Eberron. it would be like the Campaign Classics issue, though maybe every other month, and would feature one article per setting to be included.
While it's a GREAT idea, even I (someone w/ NO magazine publishing exp) think that this would not be economically possible. Not enough solid fanbase. The closest you could do would be maybe a quarterly mag, and it would have to carter to every TSR/WotC world to fly.
And even then, it still might be a giant turkey.
But, if the Paizo peeps did, this *I'd* buy it!!
Think about it this way: Would Dark Sun fans pay a couple of bucks every month to get a few new Dark Sun articles, when there's no other new Dark Sun material out there? Would Spelljammer fans? Mystara fans? And so on. Add them all together, and you've got a loyal reader base.
Consider, too, that there'd be mainstream D&D fans who picked up the magazine every once in a while, just to check it out, or if there was a specific article they wanted to use--say, a Planescape article on a particular layer of the Abyss--and that some people are actually fans of more than one setting, making it all the more likely that they'd purchase it.
By my count, there's really only five or six major settings that you're looking at: Spelljammer, Planescape, Mystara, Dark Sun, Ravenloft and perhaps Birthright (which never really caught on). Publish a magazine with two articles for each setting, with other features like Sage Advice that covers all the different settings, and you've got something that fans would probably pay a couple of bucks for every month.
True, I suppose the argument could be made that brands like Al Qadim and Maztica were really their own settings despite being part of the Realms (and the same goes for Hollow World and Red Steel for Mystara, Masque of the Red Death for Ravenloft, etc.) but there's no reason you couldn't publish an article for one of those settings once in a while just to draw in those particular fans for the month. And, for the most part, people who played Red Steel were already Msytara fans; Red Death players were already Ravenloft fans, and so on. (Perhaps not as true for Al Qadim and Maztica, but you get the idea.)
In fact, throw in an article on a setting like Council of Wyrms or Ghostwalk once in a while, but make it accessible to players and DMs from any setting (such as using the Wyrms article in a regular D&D game) and you'd be in business.
The one thing really standing in the way of this idea is the fact that the rights for all those different settings might need to be negotiated separately; and could complicate matters if some company decided to try to buy the rights for one of those settings to publish it as 3E/3.5E. But I'm sure some arrangement could be worked out.
Pax,
KRad
You know, I'm not so sure this would necessarily be so economically infeasible.
Much snipped.....
I subscribed to Dungeon about three years ago and have yet to run a module from it's pages. I subscribe just to have something interesting to read, not so much to use IMC. I would, OTOH, be able to use information from the page of this kind of magazine. Every DM borrows from other settings and my Mystara setting is no different.
Is Pazio reading this? They should be.
--Ray.
Is Pazio reading this? They should be.
Well, as the poster that started the thread sig'ed as:
Mike McArtor
Assistant Editor
Dragon Magazine
I'd say YES they're probably reading.
I'd say YES they're probably reading.
Good. :D :D
Can you hear me now?
I'd say YES they're probably reading.
Good. :D :D
--Ray.
Can you hear me now?
Good.
You know, by imitation the verizon guy, we now have a legal right to hunt you and kill you, right?? ;)
You know, by imitation the verizon guy, we now have a legal right to hunt you and kill you, right?? ;)
Of course.
I'm going to go into hiding now. What's the DC for that?--Ray.
Of course.
--Ray.
Let's see, near impossible hiding task.... Hope you maxed out your hide skill
What's the DC for that?
Not high enough. :P
You know, I'm not so sure this would necessarily be so economically infeasible.
(snip details)
The one thing really standing in the way of this idea is the fact that the rights for all those different settings might need to be negotiated separately; and could complicate matters if some company decided to try to buy the rights for one of those settings to publish it as 3E/3.5E. But I'm sure some arrangement could be worked out.
Pax,
KRad
The major stumbling block with a "Campaign Support" magazine idea is not the creative costs, but the editing and printing costs. At a flat rate of 5 cents a word (with a guesstimate of about 800 words per page, 120 pages of content per magazine) I'm reasonably sure that Paizo spends less than $5,000 per issue on writer's and artist's fees. Probably two to three times this amount goes to covering in-house salaries - for editing, layout management, sales and marketing expertise. And even these costs pale when you look at expenses for printing, packaging and shipping. The thing that would frankly surprise me would be to discover that an issue of Dragon could be produced for less than $50,000 an issue or so.
The only way I could see a fringe-production "Campaign Support" mag going forwards is as follows:
- Online production and distribution, with the mag being sent out as a PDF or similar format and downloaded rather than mailed. Eliminates the huge gaping costs associated with print distribution, but also raises the bogey of "Sell one copy, and then the rest of the world gets it for free". (The size of this problem, and the possibility of solving it with watermarks/DRM/ransoming etc is a different topic altogether; it's a risk, and big dreadful risks cause new business plans to pancake.)
- One editor, managing the mag part-time or essentially as a labor of love - meaning that their salary is not exactly stellar. We're talking finding someone to do everything - reviewing submissions, editing content and laying out the PDFs, art management, sales and marketing, web development and customer support, strategy, the works - all for a rate of maybe $12,000 a year.
- Convincing aspiring writers to accept a fairly low going rate - on the order of 2 to 3 cents a word. At that kind of rate, you can buy 30,000 words a month for an overall cost of about $750 - a third of Dragon's content, a fifth of the price (and so inevitably lower quality), and $9,000 in writer's fees per year.
- A solid customer base - which is not a sure thing by any means. 100 committed fans each from Mystara, Dark Sun, Planescape, Greyhawk, Ravenloft and Spelljammer, each paying $3 a month guaranteed (for just 5,000 words focused on their setting, and an extra 25,000 on other settings that may or may not be useful), gets you just over $21,000 a year and things are breaking even. But if any of those fanbases can't be relied upon to pony up (which can happen real darn quick - the fanbase becomes disillusioned with the mag, or the license gets bought, or a new company offers a third-party, professionally-done setting that captures the fanbase), you're suddenly $3000 in the hole. Which is, y'know, three months of editorial support, or four months' of writers contributing without pay.
- Almost no other expenses whatsoever. A few hundred dollars, tops, needs to cover site hosting and bandwidth, taxes and business licensing, setting fees to WotC, contingency and legal, ad infinitum. Good luck.
All numbers above are back-of-the-envelope guesstimates, but should reasonably be grounded in reality. There just ain't no way this one's likely to fly, barring a winning lotto ticket backing up the whole carnival. Sorry to break it to ya.
The major stumbling block with a "Campaign Support" magazine idea is not the creative costs, but the editing and printing costs. At a flat rate of 5 cents a word (with a guesstimate of about 800 words per page, 120 pages of content per magazine) I'm reasonably sure that Paizo spends less than $5,000 per issue on writer's and artist's fees. Probably two to three times this amount goes to covering in-house salaries - for editing, layout management, sales and marketing expertise. And even these costs pale when you look at expenses for printing, packaging and shipping. The thing that would frankly surprise me would be to discover that an issue of Dragon could be produced for less than $50,000 an issue or so.
The only way I could see a fringe-production "Campaign Support" mag going forwards is as follows:
- Online production and distribution, with the mag being sent out as a PDF or similar format and downloaded rather than mailed. Eliminates the huge gaping costs associated with print distribution, but also raises the bogey of "Sell one copy, and then the rest of the world gets it for free".
...
There just ain't no way this one's likely to fly, barring a winning lotto ticket backing up the whole carnival. Sorry to break it to ya.
Thanks for "breakin' it to us," but I don't think anybody here was talking about a PDF magazine--not sure why you went into all that detail about it. (Not sure I even understand your logic about that, anyway-- if there just "aint no way" a PDF mag could fly, then when do you call it "the only way I could see it going forward"?)
Besides, I wasn't talking about "creative costs," I was talking about the legal hurdle of negotiating for the rights of the different settings for a magazine when another publisher might be interested in an exclusive license for a product line.
As for "editing and printing costs"--well, congratulations, you've just discovered that the sun rises in the east. All magazines have production and editing costs--that's why they sell things called ads and why they put a cover price on the front. The fact that a magazine costs actual money to produce is not somehow a fatal defect in its business plan.
I'm also not sure where you get some of your information, or why you draw certain conclusions from it. Only 2 or 3 cents per word for writers? Well, welcome to the world of RPG publishing--that's about the going rate for almost any RPG product out there, and it doesn't somehow drive a stake into the heart of the quality or creativity of the writers. Only 100 remaining fans of each existing setting? You obviously haven't taken a careful look around at any conventions, or gaming stores, or the Internet, or--well, you get the idea.
In fact, if there were only 100 remaining fans for each of the settings that you mention (including Greyhawk--ever wonder how the Living Greyhawk campaign would survive with only 100 fans?) then Paizo would sell a grand total of 500 copies of the Campaign Classics issue that Dragon publishes each year. (Come to think of it, the circulation figures for those issues might be an excellent way to gague possible reader interest in a Campaign Classics magazine--from what I understand, it's one of their more popular issues each year, and that's why they keep producing them.)
And besides, as far as "production costs" go, magazine publishers already have editors, page designers, ad salespeople, telephone receptions, etc. etc. on staff already. A new mag would certainly require more staffing, but not in the death-dealing way that you imagine. They also have extensive freelancer lists already, with probably more worthwhile article proposals than they know what to do with, as well as pre-existing deals with printers and distributors as a way to amortize costs.
...Just my 2-3 cents per word from someone with some background in the magazine biz.
Pax,
KRad
I'm thinking a paper-based magazine would be much preferable to a pdf one too. We get great articles on the internet already, just from what fellow friends are writing and publishing on sites like pandius.
What we dont get as much of is printed material, maps, new artwork etc. And ofcourse, in an actual magazine would bring a sense of officiality into it that we dont have at the moment.
Collecting the fans of all the OOP worlds would indeed create a considerable fanbase. I would hope that such a magazine would make an effort to include material for each setting in every magazine though, or at least try to divide its attention as evenly as possible between the various settings so that we dont end up with a mag dedicated to Greyhawk, Planescape, Dark Sun and Ravenloft, leaving Spelljammer, Birthright and Mystara as little more than guest stars... Supply and demand will be a factor here though, I'm sure.
Håvard
Collecting the fans of all the OOP worlds would indeed create a considerable fanbase. I would hope that such a magazine would make an effort to include material for each setting in every magazine though, or at least try to divide its attention as evenly as possible between the various settings so that we dont end up with a mag dedicated to Greyhawk, Planescape, Dark Sun and Ravenloft, leaving Spelljammer, Birthright and Mystara as little more than guest stars... Supply and demand will be a factor here though, I'm sure.
Wanna increase the fan base? Add other editions in. Have stuff for OD&D, 1e, 2e, 3e, etc. They edition fights will be glorious, but the inner collector/compleatist in all of them will want to buy it anyway (especially if you get famous authors of each edition writing articles. ;)
Wanna increase the fan base? Add other editions in. Have stuff for OD&D, 1e, 2e, 3e, etc. They edition fights will be glorious, but the inner collector/compleatist in all of them will want to buy it anyway (especially if you get famous authors of each edition writing articles. ;)
I doubt WotC will allow this. That doesnt mean one shouldnt ask ofcourse. One way to make it appeal more to fans of the older editions though would be to have more rules light content. Even though I'm using 3E these days, I'd prefer a rules light setting oruiented article to the yet another PrC/Feat style article that we have way too many of already...
Håvard
Thanks for "breakin' it to us," but I don't think anybody here was talking about a PDF magazine--not sure why you went into all that detail about it. (Not sure I even understand your logic about that, anyway-- if there just "aint no way" a PDF mag could fly, then when do you call it "the only way I could see it going forward"?)
Besides, I wasn't talking about "creative costs," I was talking about the legal hurdle of negotiating for the rights of the different settings for a magazine when another publisher might be interested in an exclusive license for a product line.
As for "editing and printing costs"--well, congratulations, you've just discovered that the sun rises in the east. All magazines have production and editing costs--that's why they sell things called ads and why they put a cover price on the front. The fact that a magazine costs actual money to produce is not somehow a fatal defect in its business plan.
I'm also not sure where you get some of your information, or why you draw certain conclusions from it. Only 2 or 3 cents per word for writers? Well, welcome to the world of RPG publishing--that's about the going rate for almost any RPG product out there, and it doesn't somehow drive a stake into the heart of the quality or creativity of the writers. Only 100 remaining fans of each existing setting? You obviously haven't taken a careful look around at any conventions, or gaming stores, or the Internet, or--well, you get the idea.
In fact, if there were only 100 remaining fans for each of the settings that you mention (including Greyhawk--ever wonder how the Living Greyhawk campaign would survive with only 100 fans?) then Paizo would sell a grand total of 500 copies of the Campaign Classics issue that Dragon publishes each year. (Come to think of it, the circulation figures for those issues might be an excellent way to gague possible reader interest in a Campaign Classics magazine--from what I understand, it's one of their more popular issues each year, and that's why they keep producing them.)
And besides, as far as "production costs" go, magazine publishers already have editors, page designers, ad salespeople, telephone receptions, etc. etc. on staff already. A new mag would certainly require more staffing, but not in the death-dealing way that you imagine. They also have extensive freelancer lists already, with probably more worthwhile article proposals than they know what to do with, as well as pre-existing deals with printers and distributors as a way to amortize costs.
...Just my 2-3 cents per word from someone with some background in the magazine biz.
Pax,
KRad
Let's see if I can't just clarify a few things:
1. I discussed a PDF publication because that eliminates the single biggest up-front expense - convincing someone to produce thousands of pages of printed material based on the editor's conviction that things are going to work. Going print costs money to produce in advance, has a huge time lag (deliver all copy 2-3 months in advance of press date, so that the printers have time to run your job), costs money to ship to recipients, and creates many other problems that an uncertain start-up would probably be unable to hurdle.
A small-scale PDF mag might be doable on a self-sustaining budget of $20,000 to $30,000 a year. A print mag would cost five to ten times as much. You cannot count on six-figure revenue streams for any kind of fringe-market product - doing so is throwing money down the drain.
2. 2-3 cents per word - Dragon and Dungeon currently offer 5 cents a word, and that's where the talent's going. Offer half of what they offer, and you'll get half the quality, or less. Mike may be able to shed more light on just how Dragon sets its per-word rates, but I'm sure the contributors earn every penny.
3. A committed fan base of 600 people - have you looked at these boards? How many people are active in Mystara? How many in Planescape? How many in Ravenloft? And how many of these people are actually interested in enough other settings to really want to help subsidize another world's article writeups?
Dragon's "Campaign Classics" sells a lot of issues not because it's the highlight of the year for a lot of readers, but because the magazine has a generally high reputation for producing broadly usable material, has a reputation for publishing good-quality stuff and bringing in good writers, and has a lot of subscribers. I'll write a thousand words on the Mystara topic of your choice if you can uncover solid evidence that shows that Dragon #339 had reasonably higher sales than #337 or #338.
There are almost certainly more than 600 people in the world who remain fans of OOP settings. There are almost certainly not more than 600 people in the world who are willing to pay $36 a year for the promise of one six-page article a month on their favorite setting, and four or five other articles on settings that they may not be interested in and may be too niche to be usable in their own campaigns. If you can demonstrate otherwise, show me the marketing results.
4. Production costs are production costs. The guesstimates I threw out above involved a total cost of all of $1,000 a month to manage all of the back-end services associated with creating a magazine. That's $12 an hour for eighty hours worth of work - which is a lousy rate to begin with, doubly so if you're paying for office space, technology and such (and even in a highly skilled industry, overhead usually is half again salary costs), and probably not enough time to get everything done period.
To recap:
- 600 copies sold per month @ $3 per: $1800 revenue monthly.
- Buying 30,000 words of content @ 2.5 cents per: $750 in costs monthly.
- Paying for all staffing commitments: $1000 monthly, and I want your contract negotiation team.
- All other expenses: $50 in costs monthly.
At that, things are barely breaking even. Pray that nothing goes wrong.
You've got alternate numbers, let's see them. Be pessimistic - the people you're selling it to will be.
Licensing fees
Unless something significant changes in WotC policy, they are unlikely to agree to such a largescale use of their IP for those settings, even in a magazine. They haven't licensed them because of concerns with having too many competing settings.
Even if you could get them to agree to that, I suspect your biggest cost would be those fees.
Now of course if you just went the fanzine route, you could manage what the Oerth Journal has. It would just be a no money proposition, so you'd have to get authors and editors to work for free.
Now of course if you just went the fanzine route, you could manage what the Oerth Journal has. It would just be a no money proposition, so you'd have to get authors and editors to work for free.
It's been done in the past. One could simply revive the Net Almanac fanzine, refocusing it to provide more new, original content instead of just updates to the material in the JA/PWA books. I'd be glad to contribute to such a project, but don't have the motivation to organize such a thing
Concerning edition neutrality or inclusiveness, IMO, with Mystara more than any other setting, to really appeal to the community, you must include the OOP editions, especially Classic D&D. A good lot of us fans still use them, and often, the work of converting material just isn't as satisfying as digging out old material or creating stuff from scratch.
It's been done in the past. One could simply revive the Net Almanac fanzine, refocusing it to provide more new, original content instead of just updates to the material in the JA/PWA books. I'd be glad to contribute to such a project, but don't have the motivation to organize such a thing
Concerning edition neutrality or inclusiveness, IMO, with Mystara more than any other setting, to really appeal to the community, you must include the OOP editions, especially Classic D&D. A good lot of us fans still use them, and often, the work of converting material just isn't as satisfying as digging out old material or creating stuff from scratch.
The Net Almanac is still going, albiet much more slowly than previously, but it's still out there.
The Net Almanac is still going, albiet much more slowly than previously, but it's still out there.
The Almanac project is an excellent example of things we can keep doing to make Mystara accessible and interesting to new and old fans.
But why stop there? Rather than a fanwritten web based magazine with lots of different articles in it, I suggest making other sorts of netbooks. We have loads of excellent articles on pandius, but somewhat bigger pdf documents with a bunch of articles all focusing on the same theme or topic would give them a ring of more officiality, and make them more accessible for DMs who dont have the time to brush through everything on pandius. Perhaps we could even make Pandius Publishings (TM?) sort of like how they do it on Dragonsfoot?
Some thoughts:
* Make projects that are limited in scope
* Use things that are already on pandius. I'm sure the various authors wont mind as long as you ask nicely and give credits.
* Don't make the netbooks too big. A limited number of pages will mean more people will bother to read through it all. Plus, leftover material can be included in sequels.
* Make sure you finish the project. I'm good at starting projects, but its hard to keep them going. Another reason to keep the scope limited as stated in the first point.
Håvard
But then again I'm not good at finishing things either - data entry for the calendar and the HW conversion spring to mind - ;)
One idea might be a series of mini gazeteer netbooks, and it could give us the motivation to finish the Thunder Rift and Wendar ones. I suppose that's one problem with developing them on the message board - they never feel completely finished.
Regards
Gary
Good Idea Håvard
But then again I'm not good at finishing things either - data entry for the calendar and the HW conversion spring to mind - ;)
Yes, this is most people's problem I think. So how can we make projects that are easier to complete?
Keeping things limited in scope is a good idea. Dont make a HW 3.5 book. Make a HW Races 3.5 book instead. And then a HW Classes 3.5 book later. Eventually these two could be combined to a Player's Guide to the HW by throwing in a few feats and a couple of pieces of equipment, but dont try to do it all at once.
If you have more ideas for how to make it possible to complete projects, I am listening.
One idea might be a series of mini gazeteer netbooks, and it could give us the motivation to finish the Thunder Rift and Wendar ones. I suppose that's one problem with developing them on the message board - they never feel completely finished.
Yep. The Thunder Rift project is not dead. I needed to take a breather from it and there are a few issues to be resolved before I can move on. But perhaps I should take my own advice and make it more limited in scope, at least initially. I might release a simple introductory guide to TR 3E rather than expand on every feature right away as well as include all conversions.
Even if finished products are released, that doesnt mean we cant stop discussing them. More ideas are bound to pop up, and we can use those in revised editions or sequels, companions or what you want to call them.
Just a few more ideas for non commercial releases for Mystara.
Håvard
The major stumbling block with a "Campaign Support" magazine idea is not the creative costs, but the editing and printing costs. At a flat rate of 5 cents a word (with a guesstimate of about 800 words per page, 120 pages of content per magazine) I'm reasonably sure that Paizo spends less than $5,000 per issue on writer's and artist's fees. Probably two to three times this amount goes to covering in-house salaries - for editing, layout management, sales and marketing expertise. And even these costs pale when you look at expenses for printing, packaging and shipping. The thing that would frankly surprise me would be to discover that an issue of Dragon could be produced for less than $50,000 an issue or so.
I can't get into the numbers, of course, but Dragon pays more than $5,000 per issue on editorial and a whole bunch more than that on art. Otherwise, I'd say you're pretty spot-on.
does paizo have to pay licensing fees?
Yes. We license the right to publish Dragon and Dungeon, which is why we must go through the approval process with Wizards of the Coast and why we can put 100% Official on the front covers.
but what i was wondering was, does paizo have to pay any licensing fees (above and beyond the normal ones) to use Greyhawk, Mystara, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, etc material?Keeping things limited in scope is a good idea. Dont make a HW 3.5 book. Make a HW Races 3.5 book instead. And then a HW Classes 3.5 book later. Eventually these two could be combined to a Player's Guide to the HW by throwing in a few feats and a couple of pieces of equipment, but dont try to do it all at once.
This is a very good idea.
ah, good point.
Ah, I gotcha now.
The answer to that is no. As long as that stuff appears in the magazines, of course. Producing other D&D products would require a different licensing agreement.
Some possibilities:
* KenzerCo: They are still working on HackMaster Mystara at least, though bringing in Mystara as a D20 setting would probably be in conflict with Kalamar.
http://www.kenzerco.com/forums/showpost.php?p=284605&postcount=110
Note especially:
"Aside from a few HM projects in the pipeline, we will probably no longer be printing material based on 1e/2e. It's simply too much of a pain in the ass. GH was rejected by WoTC and we are re-doing it. All the other modules in the queue were rejected as well and the effort to complete them to WoTC's spec is too great to make them viable."