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Are you open for new DL heroes?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 16, 2005 15:46:07 5th didn't start with the right foot...first the gods left (with a bunch of fans i fear),then return and there are new heroes, most are somewhat.. "grey" nobody cares/speak of them other than complaining. I think's that's because they can't fill the void left by the companions.

Now the in the new generation we find an embittered Palin who no longer practices magic, Dhamon (this one is cool)... and well, i know there are a few more but it seems they are irrelevant even the ugly guy who befriended Caramon. So writers are resurrecting old heroes (Tas and Raistlin), let them die! (in the story i mean).

Also we find some talented spellcasters (Mina and Corey), but everyone rejects them. Can´te tell of a reason, maybe it´s because they got power so easily they don't really fit to the idea we have of DL. Or maybe fans dont want new heroes. Any coment? Are you open for new DL heroes?
#2
Dragonhelm
Aug 16, 2005 16:27:04
5th didn't start with the right foot...first the gods left (with a bunch of fans i fear),then return and there are new heroes, most are somewhat.. "grey" nobody cares/speak of them other than complaining. I think's that's because they can't fill the void left by the companions.

I think you will find that no character will ever meet up to the Companions by virtue of the Companions being the first. You find that same sort of thing with Star Wars and Star Trek. Later incarnations of both are good, but nothing will beat the originals.

Now the in the new generation we find an embittered Palin who no longer practices magic, Dhamon (this one is cool)... and well, i know there are a few more but it seems they are irrelevant even the ugly guy who befriended Caramon. So writers are resurrecting old heroes (Tas and Raistlin), let them die! (in the story i mean).

Palin's a non-issue now, and Dhamon...well, better read Lake of Death to see what his fate is.

Also we find some talented spellcasters (Mina and Corey), but everyone rejects them. Can´te tell of a reason, maybe it´s because they got power so easily they don't really fit to the idea we have of DL. Or maybe fans dont want new heroes. Any coment? Are you open for new DL heroes?

The big fan complaint with Coryn is that she had it too easy and didn't struggle for her magic. Mina...I dunno, some people just don't like her. Perhaps it's the blind faith. Mina isn't a hero anyway, so that's a bit of a non-issue.

Again, I don't think any character will ever reach the stature of the Companions by virtue of the Companions being the first heroes of DL. That doesn't mean that there aren't interesting characters these days.

Personally, I'm quite fond of the heroes from Amber and Ashes. Rhys Mason, Atta, and Nightshade Pricklypear are all fantastic. I actually like Coryn too.
#3
zombiegleemax
Aug 16, 2005 16:49:43 Mortal Kombat has a similar problem. They keep resurrecting old characters like Shao Kahn to fill the storyline void. No one really cares about the new characters like Hotaru, Shujinko, etc. I do kinda like how Sub Zero became Noob Saibot upon death.
#4
zombiegleemax
Aug 16, 2005 16:55:15 Perhaps it is because some of these characters are so one dimensional?
#5
zombiegleemax
Aug 16, 2005 17:17:40
I think you will find that no character will ever meet up to the Companions by virtue of the Companions being the first. You find that same sort of thing with Star Wars.

Nah, its all about the quality of the story. People tend to like The Empire Strikes Back more than Star Wars and Legends more than Chronicles, and neither ESB nor Legends came out "first."
#6
brimstone
Aug 16, 2005 17:21:31
Nah, its all about the quality of the story. People tend to like The Empire Strikes Back more than Star Wars and Legends more than Chronicles, and neither ESB nor Legends came out "first."

Of course, in both your examples, the 2nd stories were mostly about he same people as the 1st stories. :D
#7
Dragonhelm
Aug 16, 2005 17:21:50
Nah, its all about the quality of the story. People tend to like The Empire Strikes Back more than Star Wars and Legends more than Chronicles, and neither ESB nor Legends came out "first."

But we're talking characters here. The characters in Legends come from Chronicles, and the characters from ESB comes from ANH.

I feel that being the first set of characters places them on a higher pedestal.
#8
zombiegleemax
Aug 16, 2005 17:29:29
But we're talking characters here. The characters in Legends come from Chronicles, and the characters from ESB comes from ANH.

Not all of them. Yoda and Boba Fett for example. A lot of people like Yoda more than Chewie or the droids and just as many prefer Boba Fett over Darth Vader. Likewise, to many Crysania's story was just as engaging as Laurana's or Goldmoon's.

I'm not discounting the nostalgia factor entirely, I'm just saying that it can be overcome.
#9
zombiegleemax
Aug 16, 2005 22:24:58 I do believe that no one will ever live up the The Hero's , because of them we (we being used as 'in general') hold anyone to those standards, that any book will center around, personally I feel protective and a loyality to my fav. first characters. I do though love the addition to new hero's. Linsha, Kith-Kanan, Guerand and Bram DiThon, there are so many more that I adore as much. I dislike Mina,not because she wasn't written well, she was written so entirly well (like a good evil leader would), she bothers me with her blind faith, un-yielding, even after she saw the destruction her God could do, simply for power. It's the 'Don't love me love my blind faith, and obsession with my God, whom I don't really even know' kinda thing, (I haven't read Amber and Ashes so my opinion of her can change) that bothers me, but I also think that she's perfect for that role and character. I love to read about new hero's and even love to hate the characters that I ...well love to hate and hate to love. IMO only, just my take.
#10
kalanth
Aug 17, 2005 0:26:28 The ones I liked most seem to have gotten the short end of the Stick. I liked Silvanoshe and Gilthas (Its late, forgive my tired mind if the names are spelled wrong or slightly innacurate). Course, we all know what happened to Silvanoshe, so that one goes out the window with a blood soakd lance. But the Puppet King turned grand leader, I loved that. A great struggle and here he earns the love and respect of his people, saves them from damnation, and continues the struggles with them. That is what makes a great character and you don't see it enough these days.

FR does not bring in any new and interesting characters, they keep regurgitating Drizz books, and Dragonlance has not had that eye popping hero in a while. I think the first thing they need to do is settle down, stop trying to destroy the world, and write a small (non earth shattering) series that introduces new characters we can really get into. The authors need to try and change their outlooks on DL, because the overblown, world ending idea is tired out.
#11
caeruleus
Aug 17, 2005 2:56:57 I have not read too many Dragonlance books by authors other than Weis and Hickman, but I'm gonna guess that the reason that the Companions are so beloved is because Weis and Hickman are really good at creating characters you can identify with. I say this, because I find that's also the case with many non-Dragonlance books by Weis and Hickman. I love Haplo, Alfred, and Hugh the Hand (Deathgate Cycle) as much as I love Caramon, Tanis, and Goldmoon. Also, Palin and Dalamar (for example) were not among the original companions, yet Weis and Hickman made them great.

I don't wanna take anything away from other Dragonlance authors (especially since, as I've said, I haven't really read many of them), it's just that I think Weis and Hickman are espeically good at creating believable characters. The only other fantasy author (and I've read plenty) whose characters I can identify with is Michael Moorcock. (And when it comes to Elric of Melnibone, that really frightens me.)
#12
zombiegleemax
Aug 17, 2005 4:05:06
...but I'm gonna guess that the reason that the Companions are so beloved is because Weis and Hickman are really good at creating characters you can identify with. I say this, because I find that's also the case with many non-Dragonlance books by Weis and Hickman. I love Haplo, Alfred, and Hugh the Hand (Deathgate Cycle) as much as I love Caramon, Tanis, and Goldmoon. Also, Palin and Dalamar (for example) were not among the original companions, yet Weis and Hickman made them great.

Good point here. But, also back to original message from True_Raistlin - maybe these new heroes haven't really got that much storyline to develope as original heroes. So, people don't - well, become so "familiar" with them. Yes, new heroes are needed, and stories involving them. I would have loved to see few more new faces in War of the Souls -trilogy. And more adventures of Gerald (I know, he has cameo role in new trilogy).

Here's few characters that have gained (in 5th age) little more notice/involved in many stories/books (Yes, there are other interesting characters also, but not very much stories about them):
- Dhamon, best and most interesting characters of Age of Mortals (my opinion only)
- Mina, not really hero, but still important character.
- Linsha Majere
- Kang & other Dracos maybe if you start from the Chaos War

And then few old ones: Palin, Dalamar
#13
aliothefool
Aug 17, 2005 9:25:05 ***Spoliers in this post***

Well Dhamon and Linsha have their own trilogies, so they have received some attention. I neither know, nor care about Kang or any draconian, so I can't say on that front.

That brings me to Mina. I can disagree with a lot of what has been said in this thread. Some people will hate anything that isn't the original stuff. I tend to travel the other road. The one where you actually stop and smell the roses, rather than comment on their particular shade of red. I actually like Mina more than any other character in DL, Raistlin included.

She is a deeply developed character. Forget her blind faith. Actually don't. It is what makes her so deep. Think about why she held that blind faith. She sought the gods to ease the pain she believed her mother felt for the loss of the gods. Yes, she was duped, however, in today's world, how many are duped in the name of faith? Like Raistlin before her, Mina is real. She searches for something beyond herself, and finds it.

Imagine this for one moment. You are alone and afraid in a dark forest on a stormy night. You have no clue where you are. You try to peek through the tops of the trees, and view the heavens. In your frustration, you call out to the sky, "Help me my God! Guide me home!"

All of a sudden, directly in front you, appears the most beautiful sight you have ever seen. Suddenly, you are safe and warm. This creature tells you that you are its chosen. You will spread the word of it throughout the world. You are filled with blessed peace.

You immediately commit to spreading the word of your god. This is the only god the world will ever know. You have been given to know this as truth. You begin to spread the word, but you begin to find that people who adopt the god die horribly. You find you have been blessed with the ability to create miracles, but always at the cost of another. You have overbearing power, but it is unholy power.

Yes, you have been "blessed" by Satan himself. But there is no longer a God. He is gone from the world. You are the mightiest of all humankind now though. Can you turn your back on that power? Look at Odila. She even states that she knows Tak is the One God, but she cannot turn away. She has seen the face of the god. Good or evil, a god is a god. Imagine the raw power you would feel in the face of a god, any god. Even Tanis fell to his knees in dread reverence in the presence of the dark queen.

Now is Mina so unbelievable? When you try to view a fantasy character in terms of your own regular life, you lose the aspect that makes fantasy fantastic. I think what Weis and Hickman try to do is present very realistic characters, who are faced with situations we never will. If you take that approach to reading their work, you begin to see that maybe, just maybe, you might just understand the why.

Okay, I'm done ranting, for now... ;)
#14
ferratus
Aug 17, 2005 15:22:37 Well, a lot of people are against those who show a strong degree of faith (such as Mina), simply because they beleive that they have "progressed" beyond such foolishness, even though they are merely uninformed suburban consumers following popular culture.

Ah, I long for the days when atheists were the free-thinkers. Now all the good philosophy is being done by the deists. I guess that will only happen when they drop their assumption that they are right, and begin questioning it. The unexamined life is not worth living and all that.

Ah, but as for being open to new heroes. It depends on the hero. I haven't found many to be excited about, but there are glimmers of good stories here and there. I like Ankhar for example, because he is the first horde leader to show me how effective a chaotic evil charismatic leader could be.

I also enjoy my own heroes and villains that I create, though I suppose that's just bias.
#15
zombiegleemax
Aug 17, 2005 17:46:33
I do believe that no one will ever live up the The Hero's , because of them we (we being used as 'in general') hold anyone to those standards, that any book will center around, personally I feel protective and a loyality to my fav. first characters. I do though love the addition to new hero's. Linsha, Kith-Kanan, Guerand and Bram DiThon, there are so many more that I adore as much. I dislike Mina,not because she wasn't written well, she was written so entirly well (like a good evil leader would), she bothers me with her blind faith, un-yielding, even after she saw the destruction her God could do, simply for power. It's the 'Don't love me love my blind faith, and obsession with my God, whom I don't really even know' kinda thing, (I haven't read Amber and Ashes so my opinion of her can change) that bothers me, but I also think that she's perfect for that role and character. I love to read about new hero's and even love to hate the characters that I ...well love to hate and hate to love. IMO only, just my take.

Kith-Kanan was in Dragons of Autumn Twilight. If no one has read the chronicles series and only read War of Souls, Dragons of Summer Flame, etc. The Chronicles Trilogy basically fills in all the loop holes. Like Lorac's Dream, etc.
#16
zombiegleemax
Aug 17, 2005 18:31:57 Well like alot of the people already said, the companions are the original and as such they stand as the standard by which we judge all other heroes. Also large part of their appeal comes from, agains someone said it, the fact that Weis and Hickman are very good at creating great characters.

That being said, as I mentioned in one or two of my previous posts the first DL book I ever read was The Legend of Huma. And even after reading the chronicles I still liked Huma, Kaz, Magius and Gwyneth far more then the Companions.

I've read alot more books since the Chronicles and I've seen some heroes that I liked and some that just simple were so boring that I can't even remember their name.

Of the Age of Mortals heroes, I can say that I like 2 the best. One being Faros from the Minotaur Wars and Rhys from the Disciples. As you can see both of my favorite new heroes come from the same authors that created my favorite old heroes.

So really I think that we tend to like heroes that are well written and there are some authors that write better then others.
#17
gerrin
Aug 18, 2005 1:04:26 I have read quite a few posts in which I find myself either really agreeing with or just shaking my head at some of things printed.

One of the first things I would like to mention is that right now it seems that Krynn is having a huge shake up in the next few years in who controls what lands, which gods are on top and who will lead the people. To me this process will take a lot longer then the last time we had a huge shake up (Dragons of Summer Flame, no more gods). There are several series of books detailing what is going on. (The Amber and ashes tril, the minotaurs tril, lord of the rose tril). From my standpoint I think that this is a very good thing. Changing the world this way will allow the authors time to see how the readers react to the situation, and make improvements based on the reactions. I think once we get through the transistion period the world of Krynn will be a place that will offer new kinds of adventure never before thought of.

Imagine you and your friends leading raids into Silvanesti to recover lost treasure or to avenge a family member's death. Imagine you and your friends entering into Solmania and having to do battle with goblins and their kin just to reach Solanthus. Imagine entering the town of Gateway only to find yourself discovering the mystery of the town's "wild" youth. I think Krynn will become perhaps one of the most interesting worlds to game in. There is so many different possiblities for adventures. I have already begun to work on an adventure dealing with a raid into Silvanesti and am just delighted with the possibilities of what could happen.

As for the hero thing. I think that most people have grown tired of the anti-hero hero. Most people want characters who will fight for good and not have a ton of baggage to deal with. The problem though is that those characters tend to be rather boorish and readers quickly lose interest in them. I know personally I have been rather turned off by certain books main characters.

I know that this is rather fustrating to read a book and not really be drawn to any of the characters, but you have to give these characters time. The one thing I would like to see a novel tackle is what is happening to the dwarves. The readers know what happened to the elves somewhat, to the knights, to the minotaur, to the wizards, to the clerics (as it struggles on), but their is nothing coming out about the dwarves.

The last little thing I want to leave here in this post is that great heroes are made and not born. None of the companions would have been a great hero if their story hadn't ended in victory. No villian would be remembered if they didn't almost succeed in their plan. But I am in favor as are many of you here on these boards for less world shattering events.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 16, 2005 15:46:07	5th didn't start with the right foot...first the gods left (with a bunch of fans i fear),then return and there are new heroes, most are somewhat.. "grey" nobody cares/speak of them other than complaining. I think's that's because they can't fill the void left by the companions. Now the in the new generation we find an embittered Palin who no longer practices magic, Dhamon (this one is cool)... and well, i know there are a few more but it seems they are irrelevant even the ugly guy who befriended Caramon. So writers are resurrecting old heroes (Tas and Raistlin), let them die! (in the story i mean). Also we find some talented spellcasters (Mina and Corey), but everyone rejects them. Can´te tell of a reason, maybe it´s because they got power so easily they don't really fit to the idea we have of DL. Or maybe fans dont want new heroes. Any coment? Are you open for new DL heroes?
#2 Dragonhelm Aug 16, 2005 16:27:04	5th didn't start with the right foot...first the gods left (with a bunch of fans i fear),then return and there are new heroes, most are somewhat.. "grey" nobody cares/speak of them other than complaining. I think's that's because they can't fill the void left by the companions. I think you will find that no character will ever meet up to the Companions by virtue of the Companions being the first. You find that same sort of thing with Star Wars and Star Trek. Later incarnations of both are good, but nothing will beat the originals. Now the in the new generation we find an embittered Palin who no longer practices magic, Dhamon (this one is cool)... and well, i know there are a few more but it seems they are irrelevant even the ugly guy who befriended Caramon. So writers are resurrecting old heroes (Tas and Raistlin), let them die! (in the story i mean). Palin's a non-issue now, and Dhamon...well, better read Lake of Death to see what his fate is. Also we find some talented spellcasters (Mina and Corey), but everyone rejects them. Can´te tell of a reason, maybe it´s because they got power so easily they don't really fit to the idea we have of DL. Or maybe fans dont want new heroes. Any coment? Are you open for new DL heroes? The big fan complaint with Coryn is that she had it too easy and didn't struggle for her magic. Mina...I dunno, some people just don't like her. Perhaps it's the blind faith. Mina isn't a hero anyway, so that's a bit of a non-issue. Again, I don't think any character will ever reach the stature of the Companions by virtue of the Companions being the first heroes of DL. That doesn't mean that there aren't interesting characters these days. Personally, I'm quite fond of the heroes from Amber and Ashes. Rhys Mason, Atta, and Nightshade Pricklypear are all fantastic. I actually like Coryn too.
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 16, 2005 16:49:43	Mortal Kombat has a similar problem. They keep resurrecting old characters like Shao Kahn to fill the storyline void. No one really cares about the new characters like Hotaru, Shujinko, etc. I do kinda like how Sub Zero became Noob Saibot upon death.
#4 zombiegleemax Aug 16, 2005 16:55:15	Perhaps it is because some of these characters are so one dimensional?
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 16, 2005 17:17:40	I think you will find that no character will ever meet up to the Companions by virtue of the Companions being the first. You find that same sort of thing with Star Wars. Nah, its all about the quality of the story. People tend to like The Empire Strikes Back more than Star Wars and Legends more than Chronicles, and neither ESB nor Legends came out "first."
#6 brimstone Aug 16, 2005 17:21:31	Nah, its all about the quality of the story. People tend to like The Empire Strikes Back more than Star Wars and Legends more than Chronicles, and neither ESB nor Legends came out "first." Of course, in both your examples, the 2nd stories were mostly about he same people as the 1st stories. :D
#7 Dragonhelm Aug 16, 2005 17:21:50	Nah, its all about the quality of the story. People tend to like The Empire Strikes Back more than Star Wars and Legends more than Chronicles, and neither ESB nor Legends came out "first." But we're talking characters here. The characters in Legends come from Chronicles, and the characters from ESB comes from ANH. I feel that being the first set of characters places them on a higher pedestal.
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 16, 2005 17:29:29	But we're talking characters here. The characters in Legends come from Chronicles, and the characters from ESB comes from ANH. Not all of them. Yoda and Boba Fett for example. A lot of people like Yoda more than Chewie or the droids and just as many prefer Boba Fett over Darth Vader. Likewise, to many Crysania's story was just as engaging as Laurana's or Goldmoon's. I'm not discounting the nostalgia factor entirely, I'm just saying that it can be overcome.
#9 zombiegleemax Aug 16, 2005 22:24:58	I do believe that no one will ever live up the The Hero's , because of them we (we being used as 'in general') hold anyone to those standards, that any book will center around, personally I feel protective and a loyality to my fav. first characters. I do though love the addition to new hero's. Linsha, Kith-Kanan, Guerand and Bram DiThon, there are so many more that I adore as much. I dislike Mina,not because she wasn't written well, she was written so entirly well (like a good evil leader would), she bothers me with her blind faith, un-yielding, even after she saw the destruction her God could do, simply for power. It's the 'Don't love me love my blind faith, and obsession with my God, whom I don't really even know' kinda thing, (I haven't read Amber and Ashes so my opinion of her can change) that bothers me, but I also think that she's perfect for that role and character. I love to read about new hero's and even love to hate the characters that I ...well love to hate and hate to love. IMO only, just my take.
#10 kalanth Aug 17, 2005 0:26:28	The ones I liked most seem to have gotten the short end of the Stick. I liked Silvanoshe and Gilthas (Its late, forgive my tired mind if the names are spelled wrong or slightly innacurate). Course, we all know what happened to Silvanoshe, so that one goes out the window with a blood soakd lance. But the Puppet King turned grand leader, I loved that. A great struggle and here he earns the love and respect of his people, saves them from damnation, and continues the struggles with them. That is what makes a great character and you don't see it enough these days. FR does not bring in any new and interesting characters, they keep regurgitating Drizz books, and Dragonlance has not had that eye popping hero in a while. I think the first thing they need to do is settle down, stop trying to destroy the world, and write a small (non earth shattering) series that introduces new characters we can really get into. The authors need to try and change their outlooks on DL, because the overblown, world ending idea is tired out.
#11 caeruleus Aug 17, 2005 2:56:57	I have not read too many Dragonlance books by authors other than Weis and Hickman, but I'm gonna guess that the reason that the Companions are so beloved is because Weis and Hickman are really good at creating characters you can identify with. I say this, because I find that's also the case with many non-Dragonlance books by Weis and Hickman. I love Haplo, Alfred, and Hugh the Hand (Deathgate Cycle) as much as I love Caramon, Tanis, and Goldmoon. Also, Palin and Dalamar (for example) were not among the original companions, yet Weis and Hickman made them great. I don't wanna take anything away from other Dragonlance authors (especially since, as I've said, I haven't really read many of them), it's just that I think Weis and Hickman are espeically good at creating believable characters. The only other fantasy author (and I've read plenty) whose characters I can identify with is Michael Moorcock. (And when it comes to Elric of Melnibone, that really frightens me.)
#12 zombiegleemax Aug 17, 2005 4:05:06	...but I'm gonna guess that the reason that the Companions are so beloved is because Weis and Hickman are really good at creating characters you can identify with. I say this, because I find that's also the case with many non-Dragonlance books by Weis and Hickman. I love Haplo, Alfred, and Hugh the Hand (Deathgate Cycle) as much as I love Caramon, Tanis, and Goldmoon. Also, Palin and Dalamar (for example) were not among the original companions, yet Weis and Hickman made them great. Good point here. But, also back to original message from True_Raistlin - maybe these new heroes haven't really got that much storyline to develope as original heroes. So, people don't - well, become so "familiar" with them. Yes, new heroes are needed, and stories involving them. I would have loved to see few more new faces in War of the Souls -trilogy. And more adventures of Gerald (I know, he has cameo role in new trilogy). Here's few characters that have gained (in 5th age) little more notice/involved in many stories/books (Yes, there are other interesting characters also, but not very much stories about them): - Dhamon, best and most interesting characters of Age of Mortals (my opinion only) - Mina, not really hero, but still important character. - Linsha Majere - Kang & other Dracos maybe if you start from the Chaos War And then few old ones: Palin, Dalamar
#13 aliothefool Aug 17, 2005 9:25:05	*Spoliers in this post* Well Dhamon and Linsha have their own trilogies, so they have received some attention. I neither know, nor care about Kang or any draconian, so I can't say on that front. That brings me to Mina. I can disagree with a lot of what has been said in this thread. Some people will hate anything that isn't the original stuff. I tend to travel the other road. The one where you actually stop and smell the roses, rather than comment on their particular shade of red. I actually like Mina more than any other character in DL, Raistlin included. She is a deeply developed character. Forget her blind faith. Actually don't. It is what makes her so deep. Think about why she held that blind faith. She sought the gods to ease the pain she believed her mother felt for the loss of the gods. Yes, she was duped, however, in today's world, how many are duped in the name of faith? Like Raistlin before her, Mina is real. She searches for something beyond herself, and finds it. Imagine this for one moment. You are alone and afraid in a dark forest on a stormy night. You have no clue where you are. You try to peek through the tops of the trees, and view the heavens. In your frustration, you call out to the sky, "Help me my God! Guide me home!" All of a sudden, directly in front you, appears the most beautiful sight you have ever seen. Suddenly, you are safe and warm. This creature tells you that you are its chosen. You will spread the word of it throughout the world. You are filled with blessed peace. You immediately commit to spreading the word of your god. This is the only god the world will ever know. You have been given to know this as truth. You begin to spread the word, but you begin to find that people who adopt the god die horribly. You find you have been blessed with the ability to create miracles, but always at the cost of another. You have overbearing power, but it is unholy power. Yes, you have been "blessed" by Satan himself. But there is no longer a God. He is gone from the world. You are the mightiest of all humankind now though. Can you turn your back on that power? Look at Odila. She even states that she knows Tak is the One God, but she cannot turn away. She has seen the face of the god. Good or evil, a god is a god. Imagine the raw power you would feel in the face of a god, any god. Even Tanis fell to his knees in dread reverence in the presence of the dark queen. Now is Mina so unbelievable? When you try to view a fantasy character in terms of your own regular life, you lose the aspect that makes fantasy fantastic. I think what Weis and Hickman try to do is present very realistic characters, who are faced with situations we never will. If you take that approach to reading their work, you begin to see that maybe, just maybe, you might just understand the why. Okay, I'm done ranting, for now... ;)
#14 ferratus Aug 17, 2005 15:22:37	Well, a lot of people are against those who show a strong degree of faith (such as Mina), simply because they beleive that they have "progressed" beyond such foolishness, even though they are merely uninformed suburban consumers following popular culture. Ah, I long for the days when atheists were the free-thinkers. Now all the good philosophy is being done by the deists. I guess that will only happen when they drop their assumption that they are right, and begin questioning it. The unexamined life is not worth living and all that. Ah, but as for being open to new heroes. It depends on the hero. I haven't found many to be excited about, but there are glimmers of good stories here and there. I like Ankhar for example, because he is the first horde leader to show me how effective a chaotic evil charismatic leader could be. I also enjoy my own heroes and villains that I create, though I suppose that's just bias.
#15 zombiegleemax Aug 17, 2005 17:46:33	I do believe that no one will ever live up the The Hero's , because of them we (we being used as 'in general') hold anyone to those standards, that any book will center around, personally I feel protective and a loyality to my fav. first characters. I do though love the addition to new hero's. Linsha, Kith-Kanan, Guerand and Bram DiThon, there are so many more that I adore as much. I dislike Mina,not because she wasn't written well, she was written so entirly well (like a good evil leader would), she bothers me with her blind faith, un-yielding, even after she saw the destruction her God could do, simply for power. It's the 'Don't love me love my blind faith, and obsession with my God, whom I don't really even know' kinda thing, (I haven't read Amber and Ashes so my opinion of her can change) that bothers me, but I also think that she's perfect for that role and character. I love to read about new hero's and even love to hate the characters that I ...well love to hate and hate to love. IMO only, just my take. Kith-Kanan was in Dragons of Autumn Twilight. If no one has read the chronicles series and only read War of Souls, Dragons of Summer Flame, etc. The Chronicles Trilogy basically fills in all the loop holes. Like Lorac's Dream, etc.
#16 zombiegleemax Aug 17, 2005 18:31:57	Well like alot of the people already said, the companions are the original and as such they stand as the standard by which we judge all other heroes. Also large part of their appeal comes from, agains someone said it, the fact that Weis and Hickman are very good at creating great characters. That being said, as I mentioned in one or two of my previous posts the first DL book I ever read was The Legend of Huma. And even after reading the chronicles I still liked Huma, Kaz, Magius and Gwyneth far more then the Companions. I've read alot more books since the Chronicles and I've seen some heroes that I liked and some that just simple were so boring that I can't even remember their name. Of the Age of Mortals heroes, I can say that I like 2 the best. One being Faros from the Minotaur Wars and Rhys from the Disciples. As you can see both of my favorite new heroes come from the same authors that created my favorite old heroes. So really I think that we tend to like heroes that are well written and there are some authors that write better then others.
#17 gerrin Aug 18, 2005 1:04:26	I have read quite a few posts in which I find myself either really agreeing with or just shaking my head at some of things printed. One of the first things I would like to mention is that right now it seems that Krynn is having a huge shake up in the next few years in who controls what lands, which gods are on top and who will lead the people. To me this process will take a lot longer then the last time we had a huge shake up (Dragons of Summer Flame, no more gods). There are several series of books detailing what is going on. (The Amber and ashes tril, the minotaurs tril, lord of the rose tril). From my standpoint I think that this is a very good thing. Changing the world this way will allow the authors time to see how the readers react to the situation, and make improvements based on the reactions. I think once we get through the transistion period the world of Krynn will be a place that will offer new kinds of adventure never before thought of. Imagine you and your friends leading raids into Silvanesti to recover lost treasure or to avenge a family member's death. Imagine you and your friends entering into Solmania and having to do battle with goblins and their kin just to reach Solanthus. Imagine entering the town of Gateway only to find yourself discovering the mystery of the town's "wild" youth. I think Krynn will become perhaps one of the most interesting worlds to game in. There is so many different possiblities for adventures. I have already begun to work on an adventure dealing with a raid into Silvanesti and am just delighted with the possibilities of what could happen. As for the hero thing. I think that most people have grown tired of the anti-hero hero. Most people want characters who will fight for good and not have a ton of baggage to deal with. The problem though is that those characters tend to be rather boorish and readers quickly lose interest in them. I know personally I have been rather turned off by certain books main characters. I know that this is rather fustrating to read a book and not really be drawn to any of the characters, but you have to give these characters time. The one thing I would like to see a novel tackle is what is happening to the dwarves. The readers know what happened to the elves somewhat, to the knights, to the minotaur, to the wizards, to the clerics (as it struggles on), but their is nothing coming out about the dwarves. The last little thing I want to leave here in this post is that great heroes are made and not born. None of the companions would have been a great hero if their story hadn't ended in victory. No villian would be remembered if they didn't almost succeed in their plan. But I am in favor as are many of you here on these boards for less world shattering events.