My take is his madness is of the mundane kind - schyzophrenia or some such - but for a reason I yet haven't figured out, normal cures for it found in the PHB don't work, or if they do its only for a time.
Considering this, I found an interesting bit of info in a book, about how someone may get rid - temporarily - of his mental afflictions.
If you have Libris Mortis, look into pages 185-187, the "Necromantic Vault" adventure hook.
In it is described a very imaginative way of dealing with incurable mental afflictions, a way I believe could be used for Daskinor, and would also help explain why his citizens are affected by his madness. Basically, the process allows you to impart a bit of you madness to someone else, so Daskinor could be "infecting" the populace that way.
Anyone has thoughts about the process described in Libris, and its application to DS?
Ok, how about this: when they had Rajaat incapacitated, they were working to keep him that way. His body was in the cyst and he could neither cast spells or do anything physically, but his mind was fine. So to prevent him getting out that way, they had the most powerful psion (wilder) work to keep up a psionic defense to keep him hedged in: Rajaat. For the most part it worked. Think like this, that Daskinor (let's say he's a psionic genius and was the leading power for psi among the champs) had set up a psionic "firewall" to keep Rajaat's data locked inside. Rajaat obviously was trying to get out by trying to find chinks in the firewall he could send virii through. For the most part nothing worked and he got sent to the Hollow.
But maybe one tiny little attack got through, an insidious little virus that implanted itself in Daskinor's subconscious.
Keep in mind I don't mean a literal virus, more like a psionic version of a computer virus.
Over the years the tiny little virus grew and grew, and the more it expanded within Daskinor, the crazier he got.
Let's say that the point of the virus was to re-create Rajaat. It was meant to turn Daskinor into a Rajaat clone, with maybe not the exact same mind, but the same goals and ideas. Then Daskinor would attack the traitors, maybe free Rajaat, and finish the cleansing wars.
But Daskinor's mind is weird to begin with. It's very chaotic and generally doesn't work in the same way as a normal persons to begin with. So instead of having the esired effect, Rajaat's "virus" makes him crazy. The influence of the virus scatters his brain and he reacts in a very similar way to schizophrenia.
Ultimately his mind (being a weird one to begin with) will be able to come to grips with his madness. Rajaat's ploy won't work. Eventually he'll find a new "equilibrium" (quotes because it'll be basically controlled chaos) and be functional once more. But not really.
When he flipped and tried to kill Borys, let's assume that Borys made a deal with his closest neighbor, Oronis. Borys would cast a spell that would put Daskinor into a stupor, cutting him off from the outside world. Oronis would then have to make sure that it more or less works. Borys will stay away from the area. Oronis agrees for his own reasons, the spell is cast.
It works, but not exactly. Most of the time Daskinor is asleep under the influence of the spell. But his brain (being so strange!) is always changing how it works, and with the rajaat "virus" its even more unpredictable. So every now and then he wakes up from the spell, but is still sluggish and not fully himself when he does. plus he's crazy, because of the virus. So he has fits of being awake, and when he is he lashes out at his imagined enemies before eventually succumbing to the spell again and being conked out for years at a time (or decades, whatever). The spell itself is kept going partly through the life energy Borys sucks to keep Rajaat imprisoned.
Further, the induced madness of Daskinor escapes out into the populace, making them kinda crazy on a subconscous level too.
let's assume that around the time of the decade of heroism that Daskinor's mind finally stabalizes with the virus that he can function without the bi-polar. He's not crazy, but he's still crazy. Just in a different way. He's not unbalanced annymore, I should say. This is reflected in the bubble of stability that seems to have cropped up as per what's stated in the revised box set.
Then Borys dies and everything goes crazy.
The spell that keeps him sleeping (or tries to) will fail. because Oronis is unwilling to sacrifice the lives necessary to maintain it.
Daskinor wakes up.
He's not unbalanced and erratic anymore. He has a plan to enforce his psionic domination he currently has over Eldaarich upon all of Athas.
And there's not really anyone who can stand up to his mind.
For some other info, let's say that when Andropinis is stuck in the Black, Rajaat does the same thing he tried to do with Daskinor. Except Andropinis doesn't have the same weird mind, so it works to a tee. When Andy gets out of the Black, what everyone gets to see is Mini-me Rajaat (with a twist, of course)
so that's my thinking.
And moreover, I see Daskinor as being the most active of the remaining SKs when it comes to trying to attain full dragonhood. Like most people with serious mental illnesses, I doubt he would see anything wrong with himself and would thus try to attain as much power as possible in order to sooth his paranoid feelings. In my campaign, I see him as being the most likely of the remaining SKs to go for full dragonhood, regardless of the consequences. After reading the Wisdom of the Drylanders, I had the image of Daskinor rising from his palace at the center of his concave city like a draconic version of Disney's Nightmare on Bald Mountain.
Who knows, a few decades of dragon rage could be the cure for what ails him.
But maybe one tiny little attack got through, an insidious little virus that implanted itself in Daskinor's subconscious.
Keep in mind I don't mean a literal virus, more like a psionic version of a computer virus.
Over the years the tiny little virus grew and grew, and the more it expanded within Daskinor, the crazier he got.
Let's say that the point of the virus was to re-create Rajaat. It was meant to turn Daskinor into a Rajaat clone, with maybe not the exact same mind, but the same goals and ideas. Then Daskinor would attack the traitors, maybe free Rajaat, and finish the cleansing wars.
Like the mind seed power on steroids :D
So I guess no one's interested in reading 3 pages from a book a lot of you own?
Yeah, I re-read it, but I don't find a lot of use for that method within my view of Daskinor's problems.
Yeah, I re-read it, but I don't find a lot of use for that method within my view of Daskinor's problems.
Alrighty. As long as others read it too, I'll eventually find someone who likes it. ;)
For some other info, let's say that when Andropinis is stuck in the Black, Rajaat does the same thing he tried to do with Daskinor. Except Andropinis doesn't have the same weird mind, so it works to a tee. When Andy gets out of the Black, what everyone gets to see is Mini-me Rajaat (with a twist, of course)
so that's my thinking.
Very Matrix 2/Agent Smith like.
"Mr. Anderson..."
Personally, I see him as being paranoid schitzophrenic, occasionally relapsing so bad as to actually see goblins running at him from the shadows, attacking him, and he envisions himself as totally helpless. He probably also goes through a myriad of other mental disorders, since the dragon metamorphosis' rewiring/reconstructing of his mind is too much for his wilder temperment. Of course, with him being a wilder, that too could have an impact on this whole thing, and when he gets more and more out of control with each bout of insanity, his insanity bleeds off into the rest of the city, causing all of the people there to freak out as well.
Well, I think Daskinor's madness is actually a result of him being the only Wilder Champion (my own take on him, not official). Further, due to the race he had to wipe out (goblins). Wilders are already not what you would call emotionally stable, and they use the emotional instability to produce powerful results. Throw in the process Borys used to make them all Sorcerer-Kings and first-stage Dragons, and I think that had caused his mind to finally crack.
Personally, I see him as being paranoid schitzophrenic, occasionally relapsing so bad as to actually see goblins running at him from the shadows, attacking him, and he envisions himself as totally helpless. He probably also goes through a myriad of other mental disorders, since the dragon metamorphosis' rewiring/reconstructing of his mind is too much for his wilder temperment. Of course, with him being a wilder, that too could have an impact on this whole thing, and when he gets more and more out of control with each bout of insanity, his insanity bleeds off into the rest of the city, causing all of the people there to freak out as well.
Makes sense. Personally, I don't think that Rajaat would of picked a wilder to be one of his Champions. I'd find it more feasible if he became a wilder after the fact due to the reasons you listed above. Thats just me though.
Makes sense. Personally, I don't think that Rajaat would of picked a wilder to be one of his Champions. I'd find it more feasible if he became a wilder after the fact due to the reasons you listed above. Thats just me though.
Personally, I think that Rajaat was selecting his champions based on their defiler/magic ability, and how malleable they were to his schemes. I also tend to think that Dregoth was an erudite rather than psion, that Borys, Myron, and even Irikos were psychic warriors, and by the same line, that Hamanu was a psychic warrior. The others were all Psions of various disciplines.
Rajaat selected his champions from the "best of the best" of his defilers, and his defilers were the "best of the best" of his preservers. It never really says how good they were with psionics. We do know that after the Champion rebellion, those that were around had psionic ability, and there are many inferrences that point to them having psionic ability through the Cleansing Wars.
But basically, I have been looking for plausable ways to integrate the new psionic classes into the existing storyline, by digging through the history, finding anomalies that could concievably suggest a certian class being used there.
Personally, I think that Rajaat was selecting his champions based on their defiler/magic ability, and how malleable they were to his schemes. I also tend to think that Dregoth was an erudite rather than psion, that Borys, Myron, and even Irikos were psychic warriors, and by the same line, that Hamanu was a psychic warrior. The others were all Psions of various disciplines.
Rajaat selected his champions from the "best of the best" of his defilers, and his defilers were the "best of the best" of his preservers. It never really says how good they were with psionics. We do know that after the Champion rebellion, those that were around had psionic ability, and there are many inferrences that point to them having psionic ability through the Cleansing Wars.
But basically, I have been looking for plausable ways to integrate the new psionic classes into the existing storyline, by digging through the history, finding anomalies that could concievably suggest a certian class being used there.
I have no issue with the other psionic classes due to them being more focused and having more of a formal training that a wilder lacks. I feel that Rajaat would view a wilder not as developed or a lesser form of the Way as compared to the other psionic using classes.
However, as I said before, I could see Daskinor taking levels of wilder after he was made a Champion. Thats all IMO though.
I recall a while ago someone posted the idea that Daskinor was responsible for creating the Hollow to hold Rajaat and that coming to grips with creating a realm of nothingness drove him mad. Or something to that effect. I always liked that concept.
That was me. I wish I could find that post...
But, I'm glad you liked the idea!
As for his city's population going insane: well, I figure a few King's Ages of inbreeding because your paranoid ruler won't let anyone into or out of the city will do that to a population.
Never ascribe to magic or strangeness what can be ascribed to natural events, even in fantasy. It makes the fantasy more "realistic" that way, more "truthful", and thus deeper in character and more emotionally accessible.
(Otherwise, you tend to end up with the "Sharks...with LASERS ON THEIR HEADS!" syndrome.)
I have no issue with the other psionic classes due to them being more focused and having more of a formal training that a wilder lacks. I feel that Rajaat would view a wilder not as developed or a lesser form of the Way as compared to the other psionic using classes.
However, as I said before, I could see Daskinor taking levels of wilder after he was made a Champion. Thats all IMO though.
Well, I personally don't think that their training in the Way had anything to do with their selection. Just that they had psionic ability -- any psionic ability. Psychic Warriors aren't exactly trained in psionics, but rather find ways to use the Way to augment them physically. The Wilder just uses their wild emotional states to boost their power. Only the Psion (and the Erudite in my games) are formally trained.
Well, I personally don't think that their training in the Way had anything to do with their selection. Just that they had psionic ability -- any psionic ability. Psychic Warriors aren't exactly trained in psionics, but rather find ways to use the Way to augment them physically. The Wilder just uses their wild emotional states to boost their power. Only the Psion (and the Erudite in my games) are formally trained.
I view that the psy warrior is still trained but more on the physical than that of the mental. They still require training but it just just not as focused on pure psionic ability but a blending of both the body and the mind more so than a erudite or a psion.
I view that the psy warrior is still trained but more on the physical than that of the mental. They still require training but it just just not as focused on pure psionic ability but a blending of both the body and the mind more so than a erudite or a psion.
I totally agree with Sysane on this one- psy warriors would need training of some kind to blend the two very different aspects of the class- psionics and martial skill. I do not know if the idea has been addressed before but IMO psy warriors would attend a school of the Way- most likely the same school psions go to- and just be in a different section.
In my campaign, I made some PC's the players could pick from and one was a half-elf psychic warrior who lived on the streets. He learned some of his skills be hiding and watching and listening in on the discussions of the classes being held there. Granted he did have some natural ability, but is was not focuses enough to do anything with until he started doing this.
I view that the psy warrior is still trained but more on the physical than that of the mental. They still require training but it just just not as focused on pure psionic ability but a blending of both the body and the mind more so than a erudite or a psion.
Oh, I have them being trained -- by other psychic warriors. The focus is on combat and warfare. It isn't a psionics academy or other formal institution. And as such, wouldn't be considered "pure", and if you have Rajaat draw the line with Wilders, his exacting nature would demand that he also draws the line with Psychic Warriors. Further, it could be argued that he'd have a problem with specific disciplines of Psions, potentially.
Oh, I have them being trained -- by other psychic warriors. The focus is on combat and warfare. It isn't a psionics academy or other formal institution. And as such, wouldn't be considered "pure", and if you have Rajaat draw the line with Wilders, his exacting nature would demand that he also draws the line with Psychic Warriors. Further, it could be argued that he'd have a problem with specific disciplines of Psions, potentially.
The flavor text of the wilder leads me to believe that the wilder is more self taught and use psionics the way they do due to the lack of formal training in Way. Thats what leads me to believe that Rajaat wouldn't take on a known wilder as one of his Champions. But thats just my take on it and not necessarily the only or correct one.
The flavor text of the wilder leads me to believe that the wilder is more self taught and use psionics the way they do due to the lack of formal training in Way. Thats what leads me to believe that Rajaat wouldn't take on a known wilder as one of his Champions. But thats just my take on it and not necessarily the only or correct one.
And my take, like I said, is that Rajaat wasn't looking for people trained in psionic schools to be his Champions. he was looking for the best Defilers he had, which had minds that were the most malleable to his desires. They had to be psionic, sure... but didn't necessarily need the psionic training. Being the top of his class of Defilers however, that was important.
You can be crazy without being a wilder. Daskinor's madness is a draconian paranoid madness. He is very lawful in his methods, in my opinion, just insane. Insanity does equal chaotic.
Well, I know you don't have to be a wilder. However, I work with the idea that Daskinor's madness is like an infectious disease that permeates throughout the city-state of Eldaarich. To me, that takes more than just 'mere insanity'. And, the Wilder class is rather emotionally unstable. Plus, I wanted to find ways to fit the classes that did not exist in 2nd Edition into my Dark Sun campaigns. All three of those reasons pushed me to want Daskinor as a Wilder. Does that mean I expect everyone else will like it? Nope--never said people had to agree. Never said it was a cannonical reference. Never even said that it was completely foolproof. I only said that it's my take of things in my campaigns.
I'm just saying that for my campaigns he's a Wilder, not a Psion. The Wilder abilities have tipped him way over the edge, and compounded with the Dragon metamorphosis, and being a Champion of Rajaat, has left him quite incurably mad.
As long as his madness is mundane in nature (triggered by a natural or supernatural event or memory), Daskinor could make periodic use of an unknown psionic power to alleviate the pressure of his insanity, spawning a Phthisic each time. The creature would bear away part of Daskinor's madness with it, leaving the monarch in greater control of his faculties but plaguing the population of his city for a while, until the templars can find and destroy the creature.
Note: The reference to "an unknown psionic power" and the creature known as a Phthisic is from the XPH. Those creatures are said to be a repressed neurosis wrenched from the subconscious mind to walk the world, and look very alike the creatures whose minds they spawned from.
I think it fits perfectly..
*ahem*
the point is that people go crazy and have mental disorders through no fault of their own, sometimes it just happens (most schizophrenics develope their mental disorder at the age of 21-24 seemingly out of no where).
that being said i see Daskinor as ruling his state with an iron fist...it's a facist state...curfews, constant drilling and patrols, spies, subterfuge...all outgrowths of Daskinor's paranoia. i imagine a city oozing with propaganda (maybe there's an entire bureau of the templarate assigned to dispensing info - or worse "collecting" it)...i see a city constantly at the brink of war with Daskinor's imaginary enemies. i can even see Daskinor going so far as to engineer wars, sending out troops into the desert to fight only for them to never return. this is where his schizophrenia would come in. perhaps he himself assumes the role of the cities enemy and devours the very troops he sends out, or attacks the city at night. i'd imagine that his psyche may have even had several psychotic splits over the years, fracturing into several different personalities (with a glamour to suit each). his madness has gone unchecked for so long that it spins out of control. one madman can in some ways "infect" people around him, especially a madman in power. it doesn't really need to be a spell or some sort of psionic residue (though if you want it to be that way for campaign purpose that is A-O-K) that causes the populace to follow Daskinor's mad wills and schemes. his insanity may force his templars to be wary of each other and of outsiders, creating huge plots against each other and becoming themselves paranoid...afraid of their master, afraid of their superiors, afraid of their subordinates, afraid of the world outside...
the entire city of Eldaarich is run off fear. fear of an invisible enemy...fear of that which lies not without...but within...
i see Daskinor not as a looney tunes psycho who just willy-nilly kills and maims and tortures. he is still just as calculating and watchful, but for all the wrong reasons...for imagined reasons...depending on what personality is emergent at the time. in the end he is probably a very tortured being. maybe the wars and all the killing had some deep and irreversible psychological impact. maybe somewhere deep inside Daskinor is a wounded child who only wanted to paint but who's father made him enroll in Rajaat's magical training courses. he is tormented...by his past, by his own mind...his city is his prison...a prison filled with ghosts and demons and hidden enemies...
Daskinor is the loneliest, most misunderstood, most broken person on Athas...that in and of itself makes him a fantastic and very rich villian...
or at least, that's my take on it.
Daskinor is the loneliest, most misunderstood, most broken person on Athas...that in and of itself makes him a fantastic and very rich villian...
or at least, that's my take on it.
Interesting take, and certainly good for role playing.. but I just wanted to gently poke at a quote from you.. hehe
Daskinor isn't evil, he's just misunderstood
... I bet he's lonely, if we gave him a kitten, he'd feel all better inside 
and then he wouldn't be cranky anymore 
if the dog is rabid, it is a danger to itself and others...
time to take ol' yeller out back and put 'im down.
sometimes the only redemption, and the only salvation...is death.
What if the reason he seems insane, is because he, of all the beings on Athas, knows the truth?
What if Daskinor isn't insane? What if he simply has a different perspective on the Universe? Seeing things other people aren't seeing? Knowing things other people can't know?
What if the reason he seems insane, is because he, of all the beings on Athas, knows the truth?
Interesting take, but what truth could it be? Just rambling.
The backlash of his vision has put him into a paranoid and semi-catatonic state that others take of insanity.
What do you think of the ideas I brought up in the "UnCon: War of the Worlds " thread concerning the Goblin?
Or the mace might have a debilitating power, which caused Daskinor o start is madness? Afghan, on is web site, talk a lot about Goblin. It could have been a goblin mace which cursed Daskinor when the goblin kind died.