Now, the PC was not able to proceed with her plan, but it did bring up some interesting questions. What would happen to magic if the NoS could be sent elsewhere? Would it cease? Or would it function because of the many gates to the Plane of Fire? Would Fire become a more powerful emphasis of Magic? Since the NoS is an artifact for Energy, could this be a way of “healing” the lost energy points from Radiance drain? What if it was sent to another sphere, like Matter, or Entropy?
Another question arose: Lets say the PC found the power to accomplish her goal (something she is questing for) and let say that the NoS stays in Mystara. The NoS and it’s cave, according to the PC’s wish, would be at the heart of the HW sun, fine. Does that mean the Brotherhood can no longer access the Radiance? Does the Hollow World become the new beneficiaries of the Radiance? What happens with the Soul Crystals do to the NoS move?
I actually hope the PC succeeds in her quest because I would love to see what happens. In the world of RPG, this is not an unreasonable task. She is not seeking to destroy or undo, just move. In terms of game mechanics, her task is unexpected and surprisingly ingenious. Afterall, there is nothing particularly special about the cave the NoS is in. The Immortals just moved it there for safe keeping. It stands to reason that the PC could move the location given a strong enough power source. Of course the Brotherhood would try and stop such a move. And what would happen to Glantri? The reason it was built was because (subconsciously) due to the Radiance. Surely it would not die, magic would still function and the Magiocracy would exist. But would it be “diminished”? Only a hand full of Wizards know and use the Radiance, so Glantri would probably not be affected by the move.
It does beg to wonder.
And just to ask, HOW could he remove the NoS from the cave and transport it to the HW, knowing that there is a whole ANTI-MAGIC shield running inside Mystara's crust and that the Beagle's reactor is huge AND always guarded by a giant bronze golem??
So placing the NoS should, by theory, not harm it at all.
As for how to move it, basically the character tried, and very persuasively, to have the Immortals at the end of Wrath to move the chamber as described as her wish. She was not granted the wish, but instead Quested to protect the NoS by Ixion. Currently, she is scheming on a way to contact Benekander(Rheddrian) to help her in this task. She is hoping, as an Immortal, that he will have the power for the task. He, being Immortal, is not limited do to the Hollow World Anti-Magic shield, which she recognized as a major barrier for her.
Even as weak and young Immortal, he could possibly have the power to transport. He is not altering, damaging, or directly effecting the NoS in any way, just relocating it, something that has been done before. The power of the NoS is not dependent or tied to the location that it is at right now, the only significance is the building of Glantri BECAUSE of the NoS's current location.
The Bronze statue would not even come into play on such an action as Immortal relocation.
In all honesty, her quest for Benekander for help will fail, mostly because I want this to be her motive for gaining Immortality. This though has not occurred to her yet, but she is surprisingly adamant about her quest to protect the NoS, so it is only a matter of time before she thinks of it. Currently she is seeking a way to track Brotherhood members so that she can hunt them down and kill them. Like I said, she is surprisingly determined. Also, frighteningly, cleaver in figuring out ways to accomplish her tasks.
Now I beg to differ. The NoS draws energy from the Plane of Energy(Fire), feuling the NoS. First off, in GAZ3, pg 79: "The artifact cannot be destroyed now. The only way to destroy it is to travel in time, back to the Blackmoor era (see module DA1). PCs can then find and destroy the alien nuclear reactor before Immortals of Energy make it an artifact." Also, in WotI book 2, p64: "The Nucleus of the Spheres cannot be harmed by any mortal attacks because it continuously draws magical power from the Sphere of Energy, giving it a theoretically infinite number of hit points."
I know this is an area that has been confused repeatedly in official sources, but the Sphere of Energy is not the Plane of Fire. Fire is the element most closely related to the Sphere, but the Sphere of Energy is not a place; rather it is a concept.
My understanding is that the Mystaran Multiverse is made up of four (magical) elements, earth, fire, air and water. But it is also made up of five Spheres of Power. The Spheres are similar to the Force in Star Wars in that they are intangible, concepts rather than physical entities or elements.
(PC1 ingeniously (and rather complexly) expanded this by grouping the Spheres into two groups, Entropy and Non-Entropy (or Life, or something like that). Currently the Non-Entropy Spheres have the upper hand, but the reverse is also possible, and has apparently been the case in the past: 4 Spheres of Entropy and 1 Sphere of Life.)
In any case, the Nucleus draws energy from the Sphere of Energy, thus depleting Mystara's magic. The Plane of Fire is not related to the Nucleus at all.
Does anyone else get frustrated with the constant confusion among official sources about the whole Spheres of Power business?
In any case, the Nucleus draws energy from the Sphere of Energy, thus depleting Mystara's magic. The Plane of Fire is not related to the Nucleus at all.
Until post WotI when I believe it's changed to draw energy from the Sphere of Entropy. However I don't think it was ever stated just what effects this would have. With less 'entropy' around would people live longer? Would food last longer before rotting? etc.
Does anyone else get frustrated with the constant confusion among official sources about the whole Spheres of Power business?
Yes :D
Regards,
Gary
it is frustrating to keep context strait when the source material couldn't even do it. But then again, did anyone at TSR, in the early 80s, ever imagine that a group of people, almost 30 years later, would be debating the text material like it was the Constitution or Bill of Rights? I dobt it. I guess that makes us a little sad. :D
Does anyone else get frustrated with the constant confusion among official sources about the whole Spheres of Power business?
Yes- often.
(And this sounds like a good question for the FAQ!)
It's your campaign. Run it as you see fit, regardless of what some might say.
Just to throw out another idea - I always thought it would be interesting if the NoS's effects didn't provide all magic for Mystara at all, just for the Known World area. Then when travelling to the Savage Coast or other continents, magic could start behaving in completely different ways. (Of course, a lot of published sources contradict this, but you could make it cover most of Brun out through Alphatia and still leave quite a bit of Skothar and southern Davania with different rules.)
A few published sources also contradict the idea that the NoS provides magic. Magic existed before the beagle crash landed. The NoS was just converted to use pure Sphere of Energy magic as its fuel (then later Entropy).
Another question: If PC1 is correct, does that mean that the NoS is now more powerful, drawing from 4 combined spheres?
What would happen (in your campaign world) if, by whatever means, the NoS was removed from Mystara?
I'm just looking for creative scenarios of what you would think would happen in your game worlds? Is magic totally screwed, as if the NoS blew up? Does magic keep functioning? What would you think would happen? Time to flex the imagination muscle!
1. THERE IS NO PHYSICAL PLACE KNOWN AS SPHERE OF ENERGY (or Time, Thought, Entropy, Matter). The Spheres are philosophical ethos AND mystical forces which make up the universe. PC1 also explains us that the Five Spheres can be grouped into ORDER spheres (Time, Thought, Energy and MAtter) and ENTROPY sphere (Entropy). In the beginning of times, the 4 spheres of Time, thought, Energy and Matter were all part of the ENTROPY Sphere vs the ORDER sphere. Then they shifted their allegiance and the Entropy sphere remained alone. in the future there will be another change and Chaos will be the Multiverse natural state again, in a neverending cycle.
2. The Red Sun is an open gate that draws power from the sphere of energy says the HW. But since there is no physical plane of Energy, then it either draws power from Ixion's homeplane (as stated above) or from the plane of fire.
3. The NoS doesn't draw power from the Sphere of Energy but it is tied to it. It means when people ascend using the Radiance they'll be pushed to ascend in the Sphere of energy (up to the Radiance's alteration after WotI: at that point they'll switch to Entropy). However, by drawing upon the power of the Radiance, the side effect is that MAGIC becomes scarcer ON MYSTARA (because that's where the NoS is located), and this is because the NoS is tied to the essence of Energy, that is Magic. So it doesn't suck upon the power of the sphere of Energy, rather it absorbs MYSTARA's magic, up to the point when it'll be a no magic world in the future.
When the NoS is altered at the end of WotI, it becomes connected with Entropy. This means people using the Radiance and living in Glantri starts being more chaotic and Entropy-oriented, while at the same time the NoS start sucking up the essence of Entropy in Mystara. What this essence may be is not explained in WotI however (entropy is associated with death.. does this mean that the living will slowly become all immortals? Or that it will become more and more difficult to created undead or raise the dead?)
If the NoS is removed from Mystara, the only logical consequence would be it won't drain Mystara of its magic anymore, but it will continue drain magic of the planet or plane where it is put. This will however greatly impact the state of things in Glantri, since it was based on the secret of Radiance..
4. I am aware of what Bruce writes about the NoS, but since it's an immortal artifact, there is certainly a way of destroying it other than traveling back into time. and I think that throwing it in the Red Sun may be useful. If however the Red Sun is not made of fire but of magical energy from Ixion's homeplane, than evidently it won't affect the NoS.
5. Even if the PC manage to get into the NoS cavern (something which should be nigh impossible without immortal intervention, since Rad would have gone to great lengths to protect it also from scrying), and manage to beat up the golem, there are still 2 problems left.
a. Rad will notice it immediately and will intervene asap.
b. The Anti-Magic World Shield will prevent any mortal magic to work inside Mystara's crust, so the NoS won't be transported anywhere if you don't use an artifact.
3. The NoS doesn't draw power from the Sphere of Energy but it is tied to it. It means when people ascend using the Radiance they'll be pushed to ascend in the Sphere of energy (up to the Radiance's alteration after WotI: at that point they'll switch to Entropy). However, by drawing upon the power of the Radiance, the side effect is that MAGIC becomes scarcer ON MYSTARA (because that's where the NoS is located), and this is because the NoS is tied to the essence of Energy, that is Magic. So it doesn't suck upon the power of the sphere of Energy, rather it absorbs MYSTARA's magic, up to the point when it'll be a no magic world in the future.
As an aside, this is the part that never made sense to me. I don't see how one can absorb the magic from a planet. That implies that there is something inherently magical in Mystara that gives it its magical powers, but that wouldn't be present elsewhere... which is fine, but then how does one explain, say, magic working in space? Magic working on other planes? Etc.
I've got some theories, but all of them involve magic being available (in some form) to those with the power to use them (higher level mages, powerful creatures, or somesuch). Just magic in general being a lot more scarce, not completely gone.
I say have the player find an artifact made by an Immortal of time, energy or matter or all 3. It would posses the ability to teleport any amount of space, which could be as large as a cave, and anything inside of it. This could be one way to do what you want.
I always tell me argumentive players, teh DM is God in a campaign. If the Dm decides the sleep spell makes a person sleep forever no matter what saving throw is made, then that person sleeps forever. If a DM decides that the spheres are physical planes or that the HW Sun is a real sun, then it is. If you want to stay more cannon than not, then the spheres are not physical and the HW sun is a portal. So in that regards, I would use the artifact idea and send it to the plane of fire. Maybe the player isn't aware that is what is really going on, but having ELemental Lords and Greater Efreeti coming after them because of what they have done and to get that artifact from them to reverse the problem, could make for some interesting adventures. Not to mention really ticked off Rad and possible Ixion. If the NoS is destroyed on another plane it could result in the same all out war or invasion form the plane of fire onto the Mystara plane in the belief they were attacked by the people of Mystara. Possibly Glantrians. Could make for another epic war like the Wrath. There's my
But you're right. it's a DM's tool, so in the end everybody can make with it what he wants. What we're talking about here is whether or not certain options are more likely to destroy it or not, in the face of how things work in Mystara.
If you, as DM, wanted the NoS to be sentient and rule all wizards of Mystara, using them to avoid its destruction, you can do it, certainly. But I'd be seriously doubting you're playing along canon Mystara rules. See my point? ;)
PS: as a side note, I do not believe the Old One that appeared in the end of WotI was an Old One, just because they should not interefere so directly with the Multiverse. It was likely one of their agents, or another Immortal posing as an Old One who took advantage of Ixion and Rad's fight to get the upper hand on both, get rid of who was controlling the Beagle's engine (Rad) and alter the NoS to give more power to Entropy. Any idea who this individual might be ? :D
But you're right. it's a DM's tool, so in the end everybody can make with it what he wants. What we're talking about here is whether or not certain options are more likely to destroy it or not, in the face of how things work in Mystara.
If you, as DM, wanted the NoS to be sentient and rule all wizards of Mystara, using them to avoid its destruction, you can do it, certainly. But I'd be seriously doubting you're playing along canon Mystara rules. See my point? ;)
Exactly. In my camp, the NoS does not move, nor will it. It will be the focus for the one particular PC to achive this, but I can't forsee victory in this endevor. But as the DM, I can't close the book on any possilbe outcome. If the PCs come up with something I did not think of, I need to "reward" them with success, even if it throws the world into chaos and "uncharted" territory.
PS: as a side note, I do not believe the Old One that appeared in the end of WotI was an Old One, just because they should not interefere so directly with the Multiverse. It was likely one of their agents, or another Immortal posing as an Old One who took advantage of Ixion and Rad's fight to get the upper hand on both, get rid of who was controlling the Beagle's engine (Rad) and alter the NoS to give more power to Entropy. Any idea who this individual might be ? :D
Again, in my camp, there is another Immortal that was created at the accident that created Benekander. The other was, at the time of the explosion, on the other side of the NoS, making his way to Benekander, to kill him. That individual was Ogdoban Treel, the trator that ultimately casued the NoS to expolode and create the Rain of Fire! Treel's fate was the same as Benekander, turned into a Radiance Immortal fused to an object. His object was the NoS. He has absolute no control or influence on the NoS what-so-ever, he just "occupies" a small corner of it. A house guest, if you will.
In my story, Treel is able is escape from the NoS much sooner than Benekander does from his shield, and discovers his abilities and nature a few hunded years before the Wrath. He stays hidden and contimplates his options. Then to his horror, he feels somthing within his being. The NoS is being used! By a mortal! Being "apart" of the NoS, Treel also knows the price, Magic Dies. This can not allowed to continue. His very existance is threated by the use of the NoS. But he can not take direct action or he will be discoved by the other Immortals, to consequences he does not wish to find out. How to protect the NoS then?
Treel, having abandoned his name long ago, forms a plan. The wizards must die. Simple as that. I will level Glantri to protect my existence and the very nature of Magic of Mystara. Just to be safe, it is probably best to wipe out all of the human race, too unpredictable that race. I will use the orc and goblin to populate the new world. The orc is strong, hearty, easily dominated. Most importantly, they do not have the wits to discover, let alone use, the Radiance.
In my camp, Treel, now goes by another name (a secret for my camp). He then imprisons the being known as the Master of Hule and takes his place. So that he does not alert Loki, he does not have the Master killed, instead the Master is under various powerfull illusions, locked away. The Master thinks he is free and walking about, not knowing his real status: delusional prisoner of a hidden Immortal. So Loki still contacts the Master with his instructions, also not aware that the real Master is a prisoner. Treel is in control of Hule and he is going to crush the Known World with the hammer of the Orc. All to protect Mystara.
I thought this was an interesting plot twist when I conceived it. Here is an enemy who's goal is something that the PCs would have a hard time agains. They want to stop the Radiance drain too. They want to protect Mystara from destruction too. A few of the PCs would even love to see Glantri curshed. But Treel, like any good villian, takes things too far. To ensure Mystara's "safety" he plans on killing every last human. There are senarios where the PCs find them fighting along with Treel's plans, but when should they focus against Treel. How long do you deal with the Devil?
Of corse, when the NoS switches power source to Entropy, Treel does not take it well. Now his new Sphere matches his personality and motives.
What do you guys think?
When Immortals get into an open fist fight! These two "outsider" Immortals might not be so restraint by Immortal rule as performing open war between each other. Could you imagine two Immortals just slinging it out? I'd buy that for a dollar.
But I'd be seriously doubting you're playing along canon Mystara rules. See my point? ;)
No, not really. Why is it such a big deal to you if davidrpaige's campaign, or anyone else's for that matter, deviates from 'canon' sources? The topic of this thread was to help the poster generate some ideas as to what might happen in his campaign if the NoS was transported to the HW sun.
You did the same thing in one of my threads when you tried to tell me I had no business having orcs worshipping Karaash in Limn.
Some of us choose to adhere to canon sources more closely than others, and there's nothing wrong with that.
What do you guys think?
I like your ideas so far. In fact, I had forgotten about that other guy, and I too would love to see him and Benekander duke it out. :fight!:
Just to let you guys know how much my campaigns follow cannon material, I once played a campaign where the NoS didn't exist and Benekander was lower Immortal that was tricked and trapped by Loki and Thanotos. When he escaped by trading places he realized that Rad and Ixion were about to go to war. Rad had found an artifact that could make mortals into immortals without a quest and so on. The artifact was like the NoS, except it was a chamber that could be entered and was built by wizards and given power by some enthropic immortals and then given to the Etienne to use and start trouble. I know it's stupid and makes little sense, but I really am not a big fan of the NoS's effects myself.
No, not really. Why is it such a big deal to you if davidrpaige's campaign, or anyone else's for that matter, deviates from 'canon' sources?
You did the same thing in one of my threads when you tried to tell me I had no business having orcs worshipping Karaash in Limn.
Some of us choose to adhere to canon sources more closely than others, and there's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong, I repeat it AGAIN. He asked (and you asked) for an opinion, and I gave you MY OPINION based on actual Mystaran facts. If you choose to disregard them and go another way, you're free to do it. What I was telling you (and I'm telling him) is that you should have a logical explaination behind your reasoning, something which was not clearly explicit in your idea and not overly clarified in his' (else I wouldn't have raised the issue).
I'm not trying to tell you how to play your game, quite the contrary: I'm trying to understand HOW you play it and if it sounds coherent or not. Moreover I am also trying to get new points of view and clarify some obscure points in Mystara canon.
Sorry if I may sound obnoxious at times :D , but since the only common ground we have to discuss is what has been published so far, I do not find anything wrong in taking this corpus as common reference. I will not give you opinions on Mystara using my own campaign as a base, because I know it's a lot different from the standard one (it would only be unfair and create confusion if I didn't explain it first). That's why I try to stay true to canon when possible in these discussions. ;)
To get back on topic, I really like what David did with Ogdoban Treel in his campaign, for example. The idea of stopping the Glantrians from using the Radiance (and depleting his energy) by overrunning the Principality with brutish humanoids is brilliant. However, I would be a bit more daring and say that Treel has not replaced the Master (since it should be nigh impossible that Loki doesn't understand something has happened to his major servant on Mystara) but instead HE IS (and has always been) BOZDOGAN! So you've got Bozdogan using the Master for his own agenda ever since the Second Coming of Hosadus! But that's just me :D
Sorry if I may sound obnoxious at times
That's because it comes across as an "I Know More About This Than You Do" lecture on canon material. Only someone who knows what the NoS is and what it does would have come up with a topic like this. Give us some credit, please.
To get back on topic, I really like what David did with Ogdoban Treel in his campaign, for example. The idea of stopping the Glantrians from using the Radiance (and depleting his energy) by overrunning the Principality with brutish humanoids is brilliant. However, I would be a bit more daring and say that Treel has not replaced the Master (since it should be nigh impossible that Loki doesn't understand something has happened to his major servant on Mystara) but instead HE IS (and has always been) BOZDOGAN! So you've got Bozdogan using the Master for his own agenda ever since the Second Coming of Hosadus! But that's just me :D
That thought did cross my mind, making Treel Bozdogan. It is a good one, but I had a few reasons that I did not go that way. First, I wanted to Treel to be a master deciever. Nobody knows about him or his true nature, even Immortals. How great is it to have the Master of Lies (Loki) being lied to. Currently, Loki's actions are copesetic with Treel's need for Hule, so he plays along, keeping up the deception. Besides, if his first plan fails, he needs someplace to hide.
Second reason: I wanted to illustrate Treels absolute callus cruelty for human life. In my camp, Treel takes the place of the Master after the outcome of X5. The PCs manage to kill the Master and move on. Treel steps in, heals the Master and immediatley places him in his illusion prison. Visually, think of the Master hanging by uneartly cords, suspended from the ground, writhing and twitching, all the while not knowing that he is a prisoner. Treel needs the Master alive to keep Loki from realizing that the Master is not in control. Treel reads the Master's mind for information and for the orders/dreams from Loki. Treel also like to torture the Master with nightmares when Treel is bored. Loki, by my interpretations, is not a very hands-on kind of Immortal, so as long as Hule is causing havok, fine. The imprisoned Master just completes the lie that all is going to plan, in Loki's mind. As proof of Loki's neglect, he lets another Immortal "borrow" Hule during the Wrath!
I also wanted to present a very preplexing question for the PCs. If they were to go back to Hule and defeat the Master, they might learn the truth about the real Master. Then the question begins, do we free the Master? Not freeing him would possibly be an evil act. Freeing him might be considered a Chaotic act. A Chaotic Good character might leave the real Master in his prison to the end of his dying days, but what would a Lawfull Good character do? Or just plain Lawfull? Is it right and just? The Master would certainly create havok on his release.
The role-playing situation was just too good to pass up. :D
If you guys want, I'll start another post about Treel and the other complications he is causing on another thread. I'd like to keep this thread for my "What if" scenarios. I've got quite a few more brewing in the old caldron. Some grand, like the NoS moving into another plane, and some much more subitle, but still world changing in it's own right. I want to use this thread as an Imagination Exercise, if you guys don't mind.
I think Treel fooling Loki is awesome. Is Benekander going to discover Treel? I would still love to see what you come up with in that regard.
I think Treel will be getting introduced into my campaign, but I might have to have an alternate artifact than his being the NoS.
What if Alphatia did not sink at the end of WotI? Deep down, I was always a little ticked at the heavy handed way TSR made Alphatia sink, no matter what action the PCs took. Granted, I think the sinking really is the best scenario outcome for the Wrath, but I, in my youthfull rebelious stage of life, resented the fact that I had no choice in the matter.
Anyways, What if Alphatia did not sink? Alphatia was, apparently, on it's way to win the war. If the land does not sink, is it a sure thing that they win the war? What if they did, and take and occupy Glantri, would they discover the Radiance? Would they continue in the research of the Radiance or be repelled by the Magic drain effect? I always thought (this is personal speculation) that the typical Alphatian mind set would make them repelled by the cost of the Radiance. But that is just my two cents.
What other complications to Mystara would arise if Alphatia was not sunk to the bottom of the sea? Post away...
What if Alphatia did not sink at the end of WotI?
You might get a scenario not unlike Geoff Gander's works here:
Alternate Alphatian Timeline AC 1009
Alternate Alphatian Timeline AC 1010
Alternate Alphatian Timeline AC 1011
Alternate Alphatian Timeline AC 1012
Alternate Alphatian Timeline AC 1013
Alternate Alphatian Timeline AC 1014
Alternate Alphatian Timeline AC 1015
Like yourself and Geoff (and others) I felt the sinking of Alphatia was always kind of a huge waste, and that there was so much more that could be done- the Empire breaking up into squabbling independent holdings (at least for a time), etc. Geoff did some amazing work with those timelines above.
Ultimately, to be fair, the "secret" name of Alphatia (from module CM1) is "Atlantis" so I suppose sinking it was inevitable...
I need to go back and read the Glantri Gaz. I can' remember enough, but I always had regular Mystara magic and then Radiance magic as a semi-seperate thing.
This is what I had always thought, the book series about dragon king/etc. seemed to support this as well.
GW
1 - magic continues to function normally throughout the world, except for the mages who have been using the nucleus of the sphere to enhance their powers. They all drop dead when the nucleus ceases to exist on this plane. Huge upheavel in Glantri, or the effects are hidden, and all of them are turned into liches as an alternative.
2 - magic surges, wild magic, similar to some happenings in the Forgotten Realms settings. With the absence of the drain on Mystaran magic, spells flare up killing people, or have unintended consequences. Wild mages come to be around the world, and a city in alphatia begins to rise rapidly, causing mages to work together to bring the floating city under control. Magic around the world is suddenly a little more powerful for a time, or intermittently. Possible time to introduce some 3.5 PC classes like the warlock, and others.
Just some thoughts to make things interesting possibly.
GW
Ok, not completely off the topic of the NoS, but another "What if..."
What if Alphatia did not sink at the end of WotI? Deep down, I was always a little ticked at the heavy handed way TSR made Alphatia sink, no matter what action the PCs took. Granted, I think the sinking really is the best scenario outcome for the Wrath, but I, in my youthfull rebelious stage of life, resented the fact that I had no choice in the matter.
Anyways, What if Alphatia did not sink? Alphatia was, apparently, on it's way to win the war. If the land does not sink, is it a sure thing that they win the war? What if they did, and take and occupy Glantri, would they discover the Radiance? Would they continue in the research of the Radiance or be repelled by the Magic drain effect? I always thought (this is personal speculation) that the typical Alphatian mind set would make them repelled by the cost of the Radiance. But that is just my two cents.
What other complications to Mystara would arise if Alphatia was not sunk to the bottom of the sea? Post away...
This is something I've already put into motion in my own campaign. Among the squabbling holdings making any further invasion fall apart and Alphatia losing it's grip, I'm going to have a civil war break out. Also to further put Alphatia into chaos, the switching off or tampering with the NoS is going to cause a lack of powerful magics that will only allow low level magic and a few magic items to work. This will cause a lot of magicians living on Longevity magics to possibly die. I'm going to also have the introduction to one of my own designs of humanoids to be released in the heart of Alphatia. These guys are extremely deadly and are also very bloodthirsty. One of the magicians controlling one holding creates them and them begins mass producing them to defend his own lands, but fails to realize their thirst for blood and their intelligence and they are unable to control. They scourge Alphatia and the survivors of the war fall back and leave most of thier colonies to be retaken be the natives or to declare independance. This whole thing bringing down the great empires of Thyatis and Alphatia. The Isle of Dawn declares independance and Thothia does as well and prepares to take control of the barbarians of the Isle. Ochalea finally gets freedom form any empire. Thyatian and Alphatian colonies in Skothar and Davania both declare independance and send the imperial loyalists back home on ships. Still the face of Mystara's known world is changed, but yet Alphatia has a chance of returning someday without the impossible task of bringing it back to the surface. That has always reminded me of DragonLance and that never settled well with me.