News: Ravenloft back to WotC - and a FoS message - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gotten Aug 23, 2005 7:42:53	Here's the announcement from White-Wolf - Monday August 15th : Arthaus Reverts Rights to RAVENLOFT and GAMMA WORLD to Wizards of the Coast Sword & Sorcery Studios to release electronic manuscript for VAN RICHTEN’S GUIDE TO THE MISTS Atlanta, GA and Renton, WA; August 15, 2005 — Arthaus Publishing, Inc. and Wizards of the Coast, Inc. today announced that they have reached an agreement for the reversion of rights to the RAVENLOFT and GAMMA WORLD campaign settings. Wizards of the Coast has tentatively agreed to allow White Wolf, which solicits and sells all Arthaus products, to continue to sell back stock in both lines under its Sword & Sorcery umbrella brand through June of 2006. This reversion means that the RAVENLOFT supplement Van Richten's Guide to the Mists will not see print. Sword & Sorcery Studios will release the unproofed manuscript (by authors Carla Hollar and Rucht Lilavivat and outgoing developers Jackie Cassada and Nicky Rea) as a free download available at http://www.swordsorcery.com. The manuscript will be available this September. "It has been a pleasure to publish and work on these two classic properties," said Stewart Wieck, Managing Editor of Sword & Sorcery Studios. "These are icons of the RPG culture, and I think we did them justice, added to their lore, and gave them a fresh treatment for this generation of gamers." Arthaus Publishing licensed the rights to RAVENLOFT, the gothic horror brand of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS®, in 2001 and—under the Sword & Sorcery banner—has released 19 different products in the line over the last four years. Van Richten's Guide to the Mists was to be the twentieth product in the line. Arthaus licensed GAMMA WORLD in 2002 and released six products in the line. "Sword & Sorcery has done a great job with both lines," said Rich Redman, Wizards of the Coast's Assistant Brand Manager for Licensing. "We never had any doubts that these lines were in good hands."
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 23, 2005 11:57:11	Looks like I might just have to chance my race from "Lurker" to "Hands on". to help keep the spirit alive with Ravenloft
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 25, 2005 6:50:10	I agree with Trasken, time to become active! I've only been DM'ing Ravenloft for about half a year now, and there still is very much for me to read. However, it's still sad to know that some day in the near future I will hit rock bottom. It's great to know the FoS is still there to keep RL alive, I've been following your website for quite some time, and I really appreciate all the work you put into it! You have greatly helped me find my way into the Realm of Terror and lead my players into it! To the new Season of Mists!
#4 Miles Aug 30, 2005 17:03:58	Maybe if the Heroes of Horror book sells well, Wizards will take another look at their Ravenloft ownership? Miles.
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 31, 2005 10:19:33	If there is anything that can be done to bring Ravenloft back into print as soon as possible, I know that my fiance and I will do whatever we must to see that this is done!!!! Ravenloft is as essential to the D&D universe as Dragonlance and Greyhawk. As my fiance would say - let the mists surround you!
#6 gotten Aug 31, 2005 11:02:03	We'll see I guess, but let's make it known to WotC that we ravenloft fans are eager to get new stuff or novels. Use every opportunity when you are on a board read by WotC people! ;) Joël
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 01, 2005 12:14:33	We'll see I guess, but let's make it known to WotC that we ravenloft fans are eager to get new stuff or novels. Use every opportunity when you are on a board read by WotC people! ;) Joël You mean there is anybody at WotC who actually reads the messages produced in these message boards? Would be nice, but somehow I doubt it, seems to me like you could spend your entire day reading new postings - and I seriously hope the Wiz-employees don't have time for that g. Nevertheless, I contributed yesterday by buying a new Ravenloft book, I hope WotC feels the repercussions :-) Felix
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 01, 2005 15:48:09	I have only recently encountered ravenloft and i have fallen inlove with the setting. Something about gothic horror just adds to dnd rather then change any of it's flavor...you can encorperate it anywhere...I love their changes to vampires and such...leaving room for advancement that i am actually encorperating it into my current campaign in Eberron...I'm sure you don't want to hear about that however...but i see Ravenloft as a plane of eternal punishment and torture...I am obsessed with changing things so i have encorperated villians which come from around the ages. I look at it as something that will always be, even if a villian still strives in another campaign world. Thus making a 16th lvl villian which currently resides in lets say eberron also reside in Ravenloft as a group of individuals banished her to this plane. I veiw it as something that will let you encorperate anything you want, giving you the beauty of dnd settings with some professional spin put onto it...but that's just me, i would be more then happy to contribute any of my workings to this site...such as my undead creation
#9 judicator_shekar Sep 08, 2005 17:06:24	Now, if WotC does not feel a ressurected Ravenloft line would be profitable (like the aforementioned Dragonlance and Greyhawk, neither of which are being currently published by WotC), they could perhaps come out with a Masque book. This would be a sort of 'world-template' that could be used on existing settings that have been 'overwhelmed by the mists'. This concept, I bet, would be positive as it would encourage players who simply wanted that extra dark edge to their game. Moreover, WotC seems to be into publishing very open-ended supplements whose purpose is to give DMs general tools with which to enhance their campaigns. A "Masques" supplement would be right up their alley.
#10 RunningWilder Sep 08, 2005 17:27:59	Now, if WotC does not feel a ressurected Ravenloft line would be profitable (like the aforementioned Dragonlance and Greyhawk, neither of which are being currently published by WotC), they could perhaps come out with a Masque book. This would be a sort of 'world-template' that could be used on existing settings that have been 'overwhelmed by the mists'. This concept, I bet, would be positive as it would encourage players who simply wanted that extra dark edge to their game. Moreover, WotC seems to be into publishing very open-ended supplements whose purpose is to give DMs general tools with which to enhance their campaigns. A "Masques" supplement would be right up their alley. Masque of the Red Death was already put out by Arthaus, and that time period is already coverd in D20 Past. The Masques as described by the Ravenloft Player's handbook was a concept that belonged to Arthaus, not Wizards. Besides, the core concept of a Masque relies heavily on the Ravenloft setting. Why in the world would they not support Ravenloft but put out uber-specialized suppliments that suggest it? Heroes of Horror gives tools to put horror into your campaign, doing it your way. Why put out a Ghostwalk-type book that doesn't even deal with one setting in particular. All you really need, after all, is a list of adjusted magic, and the rules for Dark Powers Checks and Fear, Horror, and Madness. It's an idea, but it wouldn't sell.
#11 octavius Sep 27, 2005 9:55:01	OKay, for one, let me say that I love the Ravenloft setting, it has been my favorite setting for over a decade. Let me also say I think it's naive to believe Wizards of the Coast will print new material for it. It was never their most popular setting, since it's not meant for power gamers, and most players want lots of magical items and world destroying powers. Towards the end of the 2nd edition releases, the Ravenloft material was released with a small bubble on the bottom saying "usuable with the Ravenloft campaign setting or any other campaign setting." A release like Carnival or Children of the Night: The Created are clearly hand made for Ravenloft, but because of low sales they took the Ravenloft banner off the top and shoved it in the corner. That is not a good sign, especially when you had White Wolf making it for 3rd/3.5 edition. I think White Wolf did the system justice, and expanded greatly upon it. I've heard people criticize the artwork (to which I say look at the old artwork, if it wasnt ****** it was done by the same artists as the cartoon show justice league, and i dont like the comic book style for Ravenloft personally), complain about the material (the Doomsday gazetters fleshed out the core so much, the new VR guides the undead and fey, the prestige class books the options for PCs, i can't imagine someone having a problem with any of it, it all added to the world without taking anything away), complain about the format (the grayed sections were for DM's only, like the appendix. the publishers cant help it if your players disregard that, they have to supply the information, and if your players wish to ruin the surprises for themselves, they could just as easily read a DM only book as they could a player/DM book), and more. One person even said it would be good that they'd end the series, so that way his campaign will never contradict printing material. What the hell is that? There's only so much you can do without new material, and your players will get bored if the setting isnt constantly changing (think about it, the Grand Conjunction, Shadowrift, The Grim Requiem, Bleak House, the return of Azalin, Lord Soth's return to Dragonlance, all these things dramatically altered either the terrain or the balance of power amongst the NPCs, and i doubt a DM would make such changes on his own) These people are just too traditionalist, seeing the past as perfect and disliking the future, Arthaus/Sword & Sorcery/White Wolf/ whatever you want to call it did not only justice to the system, but took it beyond what the previous editions did. I have thoroughly enjoyed the Ravenloft setting since 3rd/3.5, and I have them to thank for it. Wizards will most certainly leave it on a self somewhere, they have a preference to support the most popular lines (Greyhawk through it being the core world, Forgotten Realms through not just its own line of products, but now it's its own cosmology, Eberron, its new baby) while scraping anything unpopular for spare parts to add to its popular stuff. The new horror book shows that, in that a DM might consider giving his villian some horror aspects, but it is a change of pace, not a way of life. Ravenloft, till another publisher decides to pick up the mantle, will reside strictly in online material. It is a shame that Kargatane.com shut down, and FraternityofShadows.com, while now the premier ravenloft site that i know of, doesnt have the wealth of information the old sight had. What we, as a community, really need is not more fan sights, but people willing to work together to produce e-books, like the VR guide to the Mists. Providing information on a subject/area, adding more colorful npcs, secret societies, and open organizations, monsters/templates, and of course, pleasing art work. Of course it'd all be thrown out the window if a new publisher came out with new Ravenloft material, but I have two comments about that. First, I think that if any new publisher picked it up, they would probably reprint a players guide and a dmg, maybe a monster manual, but not the gazetteers, there's too much to lose with those I think, itd be easier to continue the series. So I feel as long as continuity is maintained, and if nothing major is changed (like another grand conjunction or killing off the weathermay-foxgrove twins) most of what we write would not need to be disregarded. Secondly, White Wolf was my last hope for the series, so I dont think worrying about new books for atleast a few years will be a problem. I'd do it myself, write, draw, etc, but my experiances are of only one person. I would think it much wiser to work as a team on something like this, having people review and add to each others work to make it better as a whole, with more broad appeal. Also, the more people who work on it, the more people will know of it, the more likely it will become popular enough for someone at a publishing company to take notice and continue the series. I know I just wrote a lot, and it might take a dedicated person to read everything I'm trying to say, but if something good comes out of it...
#12 zombiegleemax Sep 27, 2005 14:31:15	Aren't some people reading between the lines and thinking that the reason Arthaus/Sword and Sorcery let the license expire is because there is a new player on the scene interested in picking up the license? Maybe WOTC went to Arthaus and said: we've got someone who wants to take over Ravenloft. If his plan/ideas are bigger than your plan/ideas, then you should step aside so the new person can have a turn at it. I have no specific knowledge that this occurred. I'm just thinking it might have - and an announcement could be coming? Just an idea...
#13 RunningWilder Sep 27, 2005 17:29:14	Aren't some people reading between the lines and thinking that the reason Arthaus/Sword and Sorcery let the license expire is because there is a new player on the scene interested in picking up the license? Maybe WOTC went to Arthaus and said: we've got someone who wants to take over Ravenloft. If his plan/ideas are bigger than your plan/ideas, then you should step aside so the new person can have a turn at it. I have no specific knowledge that this occurred. I'm just thinking it might have - and an announcement could be coming? Just an idea... No, it doesn't sound right. If there was another player then Wizards would have announced to White Wolf that they would not be allowing the rights to be renewed. They would only have done that if the deal with the other guy was a done deal, there's no point getting rid of free money without a guarenteed source of income in the wings. Also, they would have announced that it was getting handed over to another company right away to keep players from drifting away from the line in the interviening time. Other than wishful thinking I don't see any indication that there's anything real in the works.
#14 ravenloftlover347 Oct 06, 2005 17:27:34	So Ravenloft is going to be WotC's again. Well, hopefully they will print new material, but honestly, I don't think it matters. There is too big of a fan base for the setting to ever be completely killed off. Hopefully, we can get Wizards to print some new novels, since White Wolf sure as hell wasn't.
#15 RunningWilder Oct 06, 2005 20:58:06	So Ravenloft is going to be WotC's again. Well, hopefully they will print new material, but honestly, I don't think it matters. There is too big of a fan base for the setting to ever be completely killed off. Hopefully, we can get Wizards to print some new novels, since White Wolf sure as hell wasn't. Sigh.... Wizards never gave away the rights for novels. They could have printed them at any time during the interviening years between then and now. They haven't done it because of the same reason they haven't printed new Dark Sun, Birthright, Kara-Tur, Planescape, or any other material for those worlds. If they were going to bring back Ravenloft they would also be printing Dragonlance material themselves. Most of the things White Wolf didn't do (use Soth and Thay by names, lack of novels) had to do with their agreement with Wizards rather than any "We're going to do it this way" mentality.
#16 zombiegleemax Oct 06, 2005 21:09:41	Sigh.... Wizards never gave away the rights for novels. They could have printed them at any time during the interviening years between then and now. They haven't done it because of the same reason they haven't printed new Dark Sun, Birthright, Kara-Tur, Planescape, or any other material for those worlds. If they were going to bring back Ravenloft they would also be printing Dragonlance material themselves. Most of the things White Wolf didn't do (use Soth and Thay by names, lack of novels) had to do with their agreement with Wizards rather than any "We're going to do it this way" mentality. While I agree with your assessment of most of the game settings, I have to ask if you are aware of the fact that Wizards is publishing twenty Dragonlance novels in 2005 alone. They are not publishing any gaming material for that setting, but the novels are going strong. True, most of those are re-prints of novels from the 80's and 90's, but "Sanctuary" just hit the bookstore shelves and it's all new material. I still won't be holding my breath waiting for new Ravenloft novels.
#17 RunningWilder Oct 06, 2005 21:17:17	While I agree with your assessment of most of the game settings, I have to ask if you are aware of the fact that Wizards is publishing twenty Dragonlance novels in 2005 alone. They are not publishing any gaming material for that setting, but the novels are going strong. True, most of those are re-prints of novels from the 80's and 90's, but "Sanctuary" just hit the bookstore shelves and it's all new material. I still won't be holding my breath waiting for new Ravenloft novels. That's also part of my point. If they were going to write Ravenloft novels, they would have. They still do Dragonlance, but they've also handed the rights to that away rather than doing it themselves. I don't see them doing anything new with the Lands of Dread for quite some time.
#18 ravenloftlover347 Oct 07, 2005 15:24:46	Their whole novel approach just makes me mad. I mean, would it really kill Wizards to have someone put on a new novel that isn't Eberron, Greyhawk, Frogotten Realms, or Dragonlance? I just saying that I would love to see them put out novels for other settings. They have Ravenloft back, why not put out some novels now!
#19 zombiegleemax Oct 08, 2005 4:33:46	(to which I say look at the old artwork, if it wasnt ****** it was done by the same artists as the cartoon show justice league, and i dont like the comic book style for Ravenloft personally) Er... the only book I can think of that even began to look like it had JL artwork was CotN: Vampires, and it seems to have only stayed in that one book. And as for the other art-- while there was some crappy art, Heaven knows (coughIslandsofTerrorcough) if you're saying that Stephen Fabian or Kevin McCann were bad than I can only say "AYOC?!" [Other note: 3e art was pretty variable too, but I really, REALLY liked Talon Dunning's contributions.]
#20 rucht_lilavivat Oct 08, 2005 23:13:12	Their whole novel approach just makes me mad. I mean, would it really kill Wizards to have someone put on a new novel that isn't Eberron, Greyhawk, Frogotten Realms, or Dragonlance? I just saying that I would love to see them put out novels for other settings. They have Ravenloft back, why not put out some novels now! WotC probably does not believe a Ravenloft novel would be profitable. If more people bought Ravenloft novels, perhaps their product line would be different.
#21 zombiegleemax Oct 09, 2005 22:12:58	Their whole novel approach just makes me mad. I mean, would it really kill Wizards to have someone put on a new novel that isn't Eberron, Greyhawk, Frogotten Realms, or Dragonlance? I just saying that I would love to see them put out novels for other settings. They have Ravenloft back, why not put out some novels now! Your not in your boat alone. Look at the Star Wars fans that happen to be gamers aswell. The future release forecast shows a great deal of promise if you enjoy the Star Wars minis, but support for the Star Wars rpg is at present.....dead in the water. If they dont plan to regularly support a name as widely recognized as Star Wars in an rpg material fashion, than Ravenloft doesnt have a chance. Dont take my wording the wrong way, as I am a HUGE fan of both Star Wars and Ravenloft. As such I am in the boat with both groups of unhappy and displeased numbers.
#22 octavius Oct 10, 2005 12:57:17	Look, let me start off by saying I'm sorry, for a lot of things. I was getting annoyed that these boards were becoming back and forth bickering and nit picking. I mean, when I said FoS took the job that nobody wanted, I was implying that the rest of us would have liked to help in creating and maintaining a website, but didnt because we would rather let someone else do it and take advantage of them. I didn't mean you guys begrudgingly took it. I'm new to DnD message boards, so I dont know squat about etiquette or thread lines. To me, this thread seemed to have lost focus in a couple tangents, so I thought I'd start a new one fresh. I don't harbor ill will towards FoS, I personally don't think the website looks that great, but i agree its better than no website. I just think it could use a face lift, look at athas.org, then compare it to al-qadim.com. When i looked at the member list, all I could see was about 30 or so members, all 2003, I didnt see any buttons allowing me to go to the next page, so i thought that was the limit of your membership. The website should be more professional looking, organized like the wizards.com website, rather than as a virtual house. The graphics are great (really, they're very good), but you need backgrounds and a different font to enhance the users experiance on the website. Lastly, in the topic discussion there, and here, you guys seem to be focusing on reinforcing your base of support. We have to stop talking about action, and start doing something. I really want both the people involved in the message board on FoS as well as people from here, not because I'm playing some kind of power play, but because I'm wagering the people who just come here are less experianced, and that's what the focus has to be on. Creating material to draw in new players. Those with the least experiance are best equipped to ask the basic questions that need to be addressed. If you feel I've slighted you more so than I've apologized for, I ask you to accept that I came off abrassive, and I'm trully sorry for everything even if I didn't list it. I love Ravenloft, and I want to quit messing around on these boards and get to work already. We have spent a lot of time going back and forth and going NO WHERE. Can we people PLEASE, instead of talking about who said what or anything like that, just start talking about what we're going to do to try and save ravenloft already. Just stop being defensive, and get what needs to be done, done. For example, for my campaigns, I created a cheat sheet for each domain. It has a map with a legend pointing out the major settlements, major roads/high ways, rivers, forest names, and including in that is brief discription of the kinds of trees and plants to be found in there. It also has information on the physical appearance of the folk, their fashions, and customs. Also, local lore, and its magic/culture rating. It has on it npcs from every adventure/sourcebook that were listed as living there, with their levels, race, and gender pointed out, possibly a word or two on their demeanor or position in town. It also has the reference cited, so a more full description could be looked up from the source material. I have the same kind of sheet for some of the cities, with the quarters marked out, names of neighborhoods, dwellings of the inhabitants and major landmarks/buildings pointed out, it also includes a more detailed description of the NPCs from it. I find that extraordinarily helpful for quick reference in the middle of a game session, as well as a helpful tool when planning future missions. It's not a source book, just a condensed version of the gazetteers, including info from 2nd edition products. I think that making stuff like that more organized and uniform is a good way to help people out there. I also feel that making a series of shorts is a good way to spark interest, because if they're particulaly good, they'll be passed around the internet faster than any source material we write. I realize that a serious flash cartoon is less appealing to the average college student than comedy, but if its a solid cartoon, it would be of great help in attracting people to the material we make. I will reiterate that I feel another noble goal is making gazetteer like books, with artwork, on the islands of terror/clusters. Can we please get talking now about this stuff, possibilities of where to devote our energy, rather than devoting our time to fighting amongst ourselves??
#23 zombiegleemax Oct 11, 2005 12:36:46	I think that it would be great if Ravenloft were to be supported again by WOTC, it was a great setting and with wonderful elements that made it unique. I would hope that with the soon to be released Heroes of Horror an invigoration will occur for this setting!
#24 gotten Oct 11, 2005 13:05:16	I think that it would be great if Ravenloft were to be supported again by WOTC, it was a great setting and with wonderful elements that made it unique. I would hope that with the soon to be released Heroes of Horror an invigoration will occur for this setting! The news of RL end by WW was probably known to WotC a long time ago. It might be interesting indeed to read HoH with this in mind. I don't think we'll find direct references, but we might be surprised about hidden hints ... Joël

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

gotten

Aug 23, 2005 7:42:53

Here's the announcement from White-Wolf - Monday August 15th :

Arthaus Reverts Rights to RAVENLOFT and GAMMA WORLD to Wizards of the Coast

Sword & Sorcery Studios to release electronic manuscript for VAN RICHTEN’S GUIDE TO THE MISTS

Atlanta, GA and Renton, WA; August 15, 2005 — Arthaus Publishing, Inc. and Wizards of the Coast, Inc. today announced that they have reached an agreement for the reversion of rights to the RAVENLOFT and GAMMA WORLD campaign settings. Wizards of the Coast has tentatively agreed to allow White Wolf, which solicits and sells all Arthaus products, to continue to sell back stock in both lines under its Sword & Sorcery umbrella brand through June of 2006.

This reversion means that the RAVENLOFT supplement Van Richten's Guide to the Mists will not see print. Sword & Sorcery Studios will release the unproofed manuscript (by authors Carla Hollar and Rucht Lilavivat and outgoing developers Jackie Cassada and Nicky Rea) as a free download available at http://www.swordsorcery.com. The manuscript will be available this September.

"It has been a pleasure to publish and work on these two classic properties," said Stewart Wieck, Managing Editor of Sword & Sorcery Studios. "These are icons of the RPG culture, and I think we did them justice, added to their lore, and gave them a fresh treatment for this generation of gamers."

Arthaus Publishing licensed the rights to RAVENLOFT, the gothic horror brand of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS®, in 2001 and—under the Sword & Sorcery banner—has released 19 different products in the line over the last four years. Van Richten's Guide to the Mists was to be the twentieth product in the line. Arthaus licensed GAMMA WORLD in 2002 and released six products in the line.

"Sword & Sorcery has done a great job with both lines," said Rich Redman, Wizards of the Coast's Assistant Brand Manager for Licensing. "We never had any doubts that these lines were in good hands."

zombiegleemax

Aug 23, 2005 11:57:11

Looks like I might just have to chance my race from "Lurker" to "Hands on". to help keep the spirit alive with Ravenloft

zombiegleemax

Aug 25, 2005 6:50:10

I agree with Trasken, time to become active! I've only been DM'ing Ravenloft for about half a year now, and there still is very much for me to read. However, it's still sad to know that some day in the near future I will hit rock bottom. It's great to know the FoS is still there to keep RL alive, I've been following your website for quite some time, and I really appreciate all the work you put into it! You have greatly helped me find my way into the Realm of Terror and lead my players into it! To the new Season of Mists!

Miles

Aug 30, 2005 17:03:58

Maybe if the Heroes of Horror book sells well, Wizards will take another look at their Ravenloft ownership?

Miles.

zombiegleemax

Aug 31, 2005 10:19:33

If there is anything that can be done to bring Ravenloft back into print as soon as possible, I know that my fiance and I will do whatever we must to see that this is done!!!!

Ravenloft is as essential to the D&D universe as Dragonlance and Greyhawk.

As my fiance would say - let the mists surround you!

gotten

Aug 31, 2005 11:02:03

We'll see I guess, but let's make it known to WotC that we ravenloft fans are eager to get new stuff or novels. Use every opportunity when you are on a board read by WotC people! ;)

Joël

zombiegleemax

Sep 01, 2005 12:14:33

We'll see I guess, but let's make it known to WotC that we ravenloft fans are eager to get new stuff or novels. Use every opportunity when you are on a board read by WotC people! ;)

Joël

You mean there is anybody at WotC who actually reads the messages produced in these message boards? Would be nice, but somehow I doubt it, seems to me like you could spend your entire day reading new postings - and I seriously hope the Wiz-employees don't have time for that *g*.
Nevertheless, I contributed yesterday by buying a new Ravenloft book, I hope WotC feels the repercussions :-)

Felix

zombiegleemax

Sep 01, 2005 15:48:09

I have only recently encountered ravenloft and i have fallen inlove with the setting. Something about gothic horror just adds to dnd rather then change any of it's flavor...you can encorperate it anywhere...I love their changes to vampires and such...leaving room for advancement that i am actually encorperating it into my current campaign in Eberron...I'm sure you don't want to hear about that however...but i see Ravenloft as a plane of eternal punishment and torture...I am obsessed with changing things so i have encorperated villians which come from around the ages. I look at it as something that will always be, even if a villian still strives in another campaign world. Thus making a 16th lvl villian which currently resides in lets say eberron also reside in Ravenloft as a group of individuals banished her to this plane. I veiw it as something that will let you encorperate anything you want, giving you the beauty of dnd settings with some professional spin put onto it...but that's just me, i would be more then happy to contribute any of my workings to this site...such as my undead creation

judicator_shekar

Sep 08, 2005 17:06:24

Now, if WotC does not feel a ressurected Ravenloft line would be profitable (like the aforementioned Dragonlance and Greyhawk, neither of which are being currently published by WotC), they could perhaps come out with a Masque book. This would be a sort of 'world-template' that could be used on existing settings that have been 'overwhelmed by the mists'. This concept, I bet, would be positive as it would encourage players who simply wanted that extra dark edge to their game. Moreover, WotC seems to be into publishing very open-ended supplements whose purpose is to give DMs general tools with which to enhance their campaigns. A "Masques" supplement would be right up their alley.

#10

RunningWilder

Sep 08, 2005 17:27:59

Now, if WotC does not feel a ressurected Ravenloft line would be profitable (like the aforementioned Dragonlance and Greyhawk, neither of which are being currently published by WotC), they could perhaps come out with a Masque book. This would be a sort of 'world-template' that could be used on existing settings that have been 'overwhelmed by the mists'. This concept, I bet, would be positive as it would encourage players who simply wanted that extra dark edge to their game. Moreover, WotC seems to be into publishing very open-ended supplements whose purpose is to give DMs general tools with which to enhance their campaigns. A "Masques" supplement would be right up their alley.

Masque of the Red Death was already put out by Arthaus, and that time period is already coverd in D20 Past. The Masques as described by the Ravenloft Player's handbook was a concept that belonged to Arthaus, not Wizards. Besides, the core concept of a Masque relies heavily on the Ravenloft setting. Why in the world would they not support Ravenloft but put out uber-specialized suppliments that suggest it? Heroes of Horror gives tools to put horror into your campaign, doing it your way. Why put out a Ghostwalk-type book that doesn't even deal with one setting in particular. All you really need, after all, is a list of adjusted magic, and the rules for Dark Powers Checks and Fear, Horror, and Madness. It's an idea, but it wouldn't sell.

#11

octavius

Sep 27, 2005 9:55:01

OKay, for one, let me say that I love the Ravenloft setting, it has been my favorite setting for over a decade.

Let me also say I think it's naive to believe Wizards of the Coast will print new material for it. It was never their most popular setting, since it's not meant for power gamers, and most players want lots of magical items and world destroying powers. Towards the end of the 2nd edition releases, the Ravenloft material was released with a small bubble on the bottom saying "usuable with the Ravenloft campaign setting or any other campaign setting." A release like Carnival or Children of the Night: The Created are clearly hand made for Ravenloft, but because of low sales they took the Ravenloft banner off the top and shoved it in the corner. That is not a good sign, especially when you had White Wolf making it for 3rd/3.5 edition.

I think White Wolf did the system justice, and expanded greatly upon it. I've heard people criticize the artwork (to which I say look at the old artwork, if it wasnt ****** it was done by the same artists as the cartoon show justice league, and i dont like the comic book style for Ravenloft personally), complain about the material (the Doomsday gazetters fleshed out the core so much, the new VR guides the undead and fey, the prestige class books the options for PCs, i can't imagine someone having a problem with any of it, it all added to the world without taking anything away), complain about the format (the grayed sections were for DM's only, like the appendix. the publishers cant help it if your players disregard that, they have to supply the information, and if your players wish to ruin the surprises for themselves, they could just as easily read a DM only book as they could a player/DM book), and more. One person even said it would be good that they'd end the series, so that way his campaign will never contradict printing material. What the hell is that? There's only so much you can do without new material, and your players will get bored if the setting isnt constantly changing (think about it, the Grand Conjunction, Shadowrift, The Grim Requiem, Bleak House, the return of Azalin, Lord Soth's return to Dragonlance, all these things dramatically altered either the terrain or the balance of power amongst the NPCs, and i doubt a DM would make such changes on his own)
These people are just too traditionalist, seeing the past as perfect and disliking the future, Arthaus/Sword & Sorcery/White Wolf/ whatever you want to call it did not only justice to the system, but took it beyond what the previous editions did. I have thoroughly enjoyed the Ravenloft setting since 3rd/3.5, and I have them to thank for it.
Wizards will most certainly leave it on a self somewhere, they have a preference to support the most popular lines (Greyhawk through it being the core world, Forgotten Realms through not just its own line of products, but now it's its own cosmology, Eberron, its new baby) while scraping anything unpopular for spare parts to add to its popular stuff. The new horror book shows that, in that a DM might consider giving his villian some horror aspects, but it is a change of pace, not a way of life.
Ravenloft, till another publisher decides to pick up the mantle, will reside strictly in online material. It is a shame that Kargatane.com shut down, and FraternityofShadows.com, while now the premier ravenloft site that i know of, doesnt have the wealth of information the old sight had.
What we, as a community, really need is not more fan sights, but people willing to work together to produce e-books, like the VR guide to the Mists. Providing information on a subject/area, adding more colorful npcs, secret societies, and open organizations, monsters/templates, and of course, pleasing art work.
Of course it'd all be thrown out the window if a new publisher came out with new Ravenloft material, but I have two comments about that. First, I think that if any new publisher picked it up, they would probably reprint a players guide and a dmg, maybe a monster manual, but not the gazetteers, there's too much to lose with those I think, itd be easier to continue the series. So I feel as long as continuity is maintained, and if nothing major is changed (like another grand conjunction or killing off the weathermay-foxgrove twins) most of what we write would not need to be disregarded. Secondly, White Wolf was my last hope for the series, so I dont think worrying about new books for atleast a few years will be a problem.
I'd do it myself, write, draw, etc, but my experiances are of only one person. I would think it much wiser to work as a team on something like this, having people review and add to each others work to make it better as a whole, with more broad appeal.
Also, the more people who work on it, the more people will know of it, the more likely it will become popular enough for someone at a publishing company to take notice and continue the series.

I know I just wrote a lot, and it might take a dedicated person to read everything I'm trying to say, but if something good comes out of it...

#12

zombiegleemax

Sep 27, 2005 14:31:15

Aren't some people reading between the lines and thinking that the reason Arthaus/Sword and Sorcery let the license expire is because there is a new player on the scene interested in picking up the license? Maybe WOTC went to Arthaus and said: we've got someone who wants to take over Ravenloft. If his plan/ideas are bigger than your plan/ideas, then you should step aside so the new person can have a turn at it.

I have no specific knowledge that this occurred. I'm just thinking it might have - and an announcement could be coming?

Just an idea...

#13

RunningWilder

Sep 27, 2005 17:29:14

Aren't some people reading between the lines and thinking that the reason Arthaus/Sword and Sorcery let the license expire is because there is a new player on the scene interested in picking up the license? Maybe WOTC went to Arthaus and said: we've got someone who wants to take over Ravenloft. If his plan/ideas are bigger than your plan/ideas, then you should step aside so the new person can have a turn at it.

I have no specific knowledge that this occurred. I'm just thinking it might have - and an announcement could be coming?

Just an idea...

No, it doesn't sound right. If there was another player then Wizards would have announced to White Wolf that they would not be allowing the rights to be renewed. They would only have done that if the deal with the other guy was a done deal, there's no point getting rid of free money without a guarenteed source of income in the wings. Also, they would have announced that it was getting handed over to another company right away to keep players from drifting away from the line in the interviening time.

Other than wishful thinking I don't see any indication that there's anything real in the works.

#14

ravenloftlover347

Oct 06, 2005 17:27:34

So Ravenloft is going to be WotC's again. Well, hopefully they will print new material, but honestly, I don't think it matters. There is too big of a fan base for the setting to ever be completely killed off. Hopefully, we can get Wizards to print some new novels, since White Wolf sure as hell wasn't.

#15

RunningWilder

Oct 06, 2005 20:58:06

So Ravenloft is going to be WotC's again. Well, hopefully they will print new material, but honestly, I don't think it matters. There is too big of a fan base for the setting to ever be completely killed off. Hopefully, we can get Wizards to print some new novels, since White Wolf sure as hell wasn't.

Sigh.... Wizards never gave away the rights for novels. They could have printed them at any time during the interviening years between then and now. They haven't done it because of the same reason they haven't printed new Dark Sun, Birthright, Kara-Tur, Planescape, or any other material for those worlds. If they were going to bring back Ravenloft they would also be printing Dragonlance material themselves. Most of the things White Wolf didn't do (use Soth and Thay by names, lack of novels) had to do with their agreement with Wizards rather than any "We're going to do it this way" mentality.

#16

zombiegleemax

Oct 06, 2005 21:09:41

Sigh.... Wizards never gave away the rights for novels. They could have printed them at any time during the interviening years between then and now. They haven't done it because of the same reason they haven't printed new Dark Sun, Birthright, Kara-Tur, Planescape, or any other material for those worlds. If they were going to bring back Ravenloft they would also be printing Dragonlance material themselves. Most of the things White Wolf didn't do (use Soth and Thay by names, lack of novels) had to do with their agreement with Wizards rather than any "We're going to do it this way" mentality.

While I agree with your assessment of most of the game settings, I have to ask if you are aware of the fact that Wizards is publishing twenty Dragonlance novels in 2005 alone. They are not publishing any gaming material for that setting, but the novels are going strong. True, most of those are re-prints of novels from the 80's and 90's, but "Sanctuary" just hit the bookstore shelves and it's all new material. I still won't be holding my breath waiting for new Ravenloft novels.

#17

RunningWilder

Oct 06, 2005 21:17:17

While I agree with your assessment of most of the game settings, I have to ask if you are aware of the fact that Wizards is publishing twenty Dragonlance novels in 2005 alone. They are not publishing any gaming material for that setting, but the novels are going strong. True, most of those are re-prints of novels from the 80's and 90's, but "Sanctuary" just hit the bookstore shelves and it's all new material. I still won't be holding my breath waiting for new Ravenloft novels.

That's also part of my point. If they were going to write Ravenloft novels, they would have. They still do Dragonlance, but they've also handed the rights to that away rather than doing it themselves. I don't see them doing anything new with the Lands of Dread for quite some time.

#18

ravenloftlover347

Oct 07, 2005 15:24:46

Their whole novel approach just makes me mad. I mean, would it really kill Wizards to have someone put on a new novel that isn't Eberron, Greyhawk, Frogotten Realms, or Dragonlance? I just saying that I would love to see them put out novels for other settings. They have Ravenloft back, why not put out some novels now!

#19

zombiegleemax

Oct 08, 2005 4:33:46

(to which I say look at the old artwork, if it wasnt ****** it was done by the same artists as the cartoon show justice league, and i dont like the comic book style for Ravenloft personally)

Er... the only book I can think of that even began to look like it had JL artwork was CotN: Vampires, and it seems to have only stayed in that one book.

And as for the other art-- while there was some crappy art, Heaven knows (*cough*IslandsofTerror*cough*) if you're saying that Stephen Fabian or Kevin McCann were bad than I can only say "AYOC?!"

[Other note: 3e art was pretty variable too, but I really, REALLY liked Talon Dunning's contributions.]

#20

rucht_lilavivat

Oct 08, 2005 23:13:12

Their whole novel approach just makes me mad. I mean, would it really kill Wizards to have someone put on a new novel that isn't Eberron, Greyhawk, Frogotten Realms, or Dragonlance? I just saying that I would love to see them put out novels for other settings. They have Ravenloft back, why not put out some novels now!

WotC probably does not believe a Ravenloft novel would be profitable. If more people bought Ravenloft novels, perhaps their product line would be different.

#21

zombiegleemax

Oct 09, 2005 22:12:58

Their whole novel approach just makes me mad. I mean, would it really kill Wizards to have someone put on a new novel that isn't Eberron, Greyhawk, Frogotten Realms, or Dragonlance? I just saying that I would love to see them put out novels for other settings. They have Ravenloft back, why not put out some novels now!

Your not in your boat alone. Look at the Star Wars fans that happen to be gamers aswell. The future release forecast shows a great deal of promise if you enjoy the Star Wars minis, but support for the Star Wars rpg is at present.....dead in the water. If they dont plan to regularly support a name as widely recognized as Star Wars in an rpg material fashion, than Ravenloft doesnt have a chance. Dont take my wording the wrong way, as I am a HUGE fan of both Star Wars and Ravenloft. As such I am in the boat with both groups of unhappy and displeased numbers.

#22

octavius

Oct 10, 2005 12:57:17

Look, let me start off by saying I'm sorry, for a lot of things. I was getting annoyed that these boards were becoming back and forth bickering and nit picking. I mean, when I said FoS took the job that nobody wanted, I was implying that the rest of us would have liked to help in creating and maintaining a website, but didnt because we would rather let someone else do it and take advantage of them. I didn't mean you guys begrudgingly took it. I'm new to DnD message boards, so I dont know squat about etiquette or thread lines. To me, this thread seemed to have lost focus in a couple tangents, so I thought I'd start a new one fresh. I don't harbor ill will towards FoS, I personally don't think the website looks that great, but i agree its better than no website. I just think it could use a face lift, look at athas.org, then compare it to al-qadim.com. When i looked at the member list, all I could see was about 30 or so members, all 2003, I didnt see any buttons allowing me to go to the next page, so i thought that was the limit of your membership.

The website should be more professional looking, organized like the wizards.com website, rather than as a virtual house. The graphics are great (really, they're very good), but you need backgrounds and a different font to enhance the users experiance on the website.

Lastly, in the topic discussion there, and here, you guys seem to be focusing on reinforcing your base of support. We have to stop talking about action, and start doing something. I really want both the people involved in the message board on FoS as well as people from here, not because I'm playing some kind of power play, but because I'm wagering the people who just come here are less experianced, and that's what the focus has to be on. Creating material to draw in new players. Those with the least experiance are best equipped to ask the basic questions that need to be addressed.

If you feel I've slighted you more so than I've apologized for, I ask you to accept that I came off abrassive, and I'm trully sorry for everything even if I didn't list it. I love Ravenloft, and I want to quit messing around on these boards and get to work already. We have spent a lot of time going back and forth and going NO WHERE. Can we people PLEASE, instead of talking about who said what or anything like that, just start talking about what we're going to do to try and save ravenloft already. Just stop being defensive, and get what needs to be done, done.

For example, for my campaigns, I created a cheat sheet for each domain. It has a map with a legend pointing out the major settlements, major roads/high ways, rivers, forest names, and including in that is brief discription of the kinds of trees and plants to be found in there. It also has information on the physical appearance of the folk, their fashions, and customs. Also, local lore, and its magic/culture rating. It has on it npcs from every adventure/sourcebook that were listed as living there, with their levels, race, and gender pointed out, possibly a word or two on their demeanor or position in town. It also has the reference cited, so a more full description could be looked up from the source material.

I have the same kind of sheet for some of the cities, with the quarters marked out, names of neighborhoods, dwellings of the inhabitants and major landmarks/buildings pointed out, it also includes a more detailed description of the NPCs from it.

I find that extraordinarily helpful for quick reference in the middle of a game session, as well as a helpful tool when planning future missions. It's not a source book, just a condensed version of the gazetteers, including info from 2nd edition products. I think that making stuff like that more organized and uniform is a good way to help people out there.

I also feel that making a series of shorts is a good way to spark interest, because if they're particulaly good, they'll be passed around the internet faster than any source material we write. I realize that a serious flash cartoon is less appealing to the average college student than comedy, but if its a solid cartoon, it would be of great help in attracting people to the material we make.

I will reiterate that I feel another noble goal is making gazetteer like books, with artwork, on the islands of terror/clusters.

Can we please get talking now about this stuff, possibilities of where to devote our energy, rather than devoting our time to fighting amongst ourselves??

#23

zombiegleemax

Oct 11, 2005 12:36:46

I think that it would be great if Ravenloft were to be supported again by WOTC, it was a great setting and with wonderful elements that made it unique. I would hope that with the soon to be released Heroes of Horror an invigoration will occur for this setting!

#24

gotten

Oct 11, 2005 13:05:16

I think that it would be great if Ravenloft were to be supported again by WOTC, it was a great setting and with wonderful elements that made it unique. I would hope that with the soon to be released Heroes of Horror an invigoration will occur for this setting!

The news of RL end by WW was probably known to WotC a long time ago. It might be interesting indeed to read HoH with this in mind. I don't think we'll find direct references, but we might be surprised about hidden hints ...

Joël