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Greek and Norse Gods in Greyhawk?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 26, 2005 16:47:25 I heard from rumors on the Internet that in the old 1st and 2nd Edition Sources that the Greek and Norse Pantheon were in the World of Greyhawk and the Outer Planes. Is this true? In the Real World Greek Mythology, they killed people on a whim and when they were jealous. In one story, Aphrodite killed a girl simply because she was born more physically attractive than her. They were worshipped not out of respect, but fear. Seems none of them are of Good alignment as in Deities & DemiGods. Read the Metamorphosis of Ovid to see what I mean. I doubt that the Greeks would be welcome in the Flaneass.
I do not know enough of the Norse Gods to make a clear estimation.
In short, were these Real World Pantheons in old Greyhawk sourcebooks?
#2
zombiegleemax
Aug 26, 2005 19:02:53 When I said that I doubt that the Greeks would not be welcome in the Flaneass, I meant the Ancient Greek Gods. I'm sorry to anyone who got offended.
#3
ripvanwormer
Aug 26, 2005 19:08:28 Those pantheons were in the 1st edition Deities & Demigods book. It was a number of years between the publication of that book and the introduction of the official gods of Greyhawk in Dragon Magazine and eventually the World of Greyhawk boxed set.

Therefore, in that vacuum, some people included the Deities & Demigods gods in the Flanaess - including E. Gary Gygax. Robilar was a worshipper of Odin, for example.

But no, there was never anything official about those gods on Oerth, unless you count the central American gods worshipped by the Olmans.
#4
crag
Aug 26, 2005 19:09:23 If I remember correctly, the early days of D&D were really fluid, except for the bare bones, many things were invented on the fly as a response to consumer demand.

The Gods were hardly "fleshed out" and players wanted stats, so Dieties & Demi-gods came out providing the stats for several earth pantheons and the GH demi-human pantheons. DMs were encouraged to use whichever dieties appealed to them. Some early modules like "white plume mountain" used posiden.

Ofcourse over time as material was added to the gameworld, the GH pantheon was created and over time took shape, that we all know today.
#5
Mortepierre
Aug 27, 2005 2:09:35 On the other hand, these two pantheons made more than an appearance in the FR. Sune, for example, is clearly Aphrodite. Then, there is Tyr, etc...

Somehow, I am happy it turned out that way. At least GH can cling to its own unique identity.
#6
max_writer
Aug 27, 2005 5:33:28 A Native American god's persona made an appearance in a 2nd Ed adventure in Dungeon Magazine. The god Red Fox was the parallel of the god Coyote in the adventure "Ghost Dance."

I used the Greek gods in my early campaigns due to their familiarity. I slowly phased them out however.

It seems like I read about a temple of a Greek god in one of the old adventures, however.
#7
scoti_garbidis
Aug 27, 2005 7:54:19
A Native American god's persona made an appearance in a 2nd Ed adventure in Dungeon Magazine. The god Red Fox was the parallel of the god Coyote in the adventure "Ghost Dance."

I used the Greek gods in my early campaigns due to their familiarity. I slowly phased them out however.

It seems like I read about a temple of a Greek god in one of the old adventures, however.

The 2nd Edition Adventure "Ghost Dance" can be found in Dungeon #32 for any who may be interested in reading the info. It does explain the origin of Red Fox coming from the god Coyote and also gives a reference to check out the 2nd Edition Legends & Lore book for more info.
#8
pauln6
Sep 01, 2005 7:28:35 I think that Thrym ans Surtur were officially recognised by Greyhawk frost and fire giants. Beyond that, I don't recall any other direct parallels.
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 01, 2005 10:59:48 I think the Norse pantheon fits in well in the Ice, Snow and Frost Barbarian Kingdoms. I used them with my DM's permission when I played PC's from the Cold North. After the Five Blades adventures it wasn't too difficult to make Odin/Wotan change his name to Vatun. Not too sure where the Greek Gods would fit in...someplace off the map with brilliant white columns perhaps?
#10
caeruleus
Sep 01, 2005 12:37:12 Also remember that before 3e, all of the campaign worlds were connected, and they shared the same cosmology. So the outer planes would have Greyhawk deities, Dragonlance deities, Greek deities, Norse deities, etc, etc.
#11
pauln6
Sep 05, 2005 7:45:13 As far as I know, that's still the case. Just because the Norse & Greek Gods have no worshippers on Oerth doesn't mean that they don't exist. It gives you the option of using them or not depending on the justification for a mortal on Oerth being aware of their identity.
#12
extempus
Feb 07, 2006 23:34:00 In the 1st Ed. DMG (p. 112), EGG wrote:

In my own Greyhawk Campaign there have been 9 demigods, 3 demon lords, and a handful of Norse and other gods involved in the course of many years of play.

Then we have "The Black Acropolis" adventure in the 2nd Ed. The Vortex of Madness that involves the Titans (the progenitors of the Greek gods; Zeus is also mentioned) in Tarterus/Carceri.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2005 16:47:25	I heard from rumors on the Internet that in the old 1st and 2nd Edition Sources that the Greek and Norse Pantheon were in the World of Greyhawk and the Outer Planes. Is this true? In the Real World Greek Mythology, they killed people on a whim and when they were jealous. In one story, Aphrodite killed a girl simply because she was born more physically attractive than her. They were worshipped not out of respect, but fear. Seems none of them are of Good alignment as in Deities & DemiGods. Read the Metamorphosis of Ovid to see what I mean. I doubt that the Greeks would be welcome in the Flaneass. I do not know enough of the Norse Gods to make a clear estimation. In short, were these Real World Pantheons in old Greyhawk sourcebooks?
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2005 19:02:53	When I said that I doubt that the Greeks would not be welcome in the Flaneass, I meant the Ancient Greek Gods. I'm sorry to anyone who got offended.
#3 ripvanwormer Aug 26, 2005 19:08:28	Those pantheons were in the 1st edition Deities & Demigods book. It was a number of years between the publication of that book and the introduction of the official gods of Greyhawk in Dragon Magazine and eventually the World of Greyhawk boxed set. Therefore, in that vacuum, some people included the Deities & Demigods gods in the Flanaess - including E. Gary Gygax. Robilar was a worshipper of Odin, for example. But no, there was never anything official about those gods on Oerth, unless you count the central American gods worshipped by the Olmans.
#4 crag Aug 26, 2005 19:09:23	If I remember correctly, the early days of D&D were really fluid, except for the bare bones, many things were invented on the fly as a response to consumer demand. The Gods were hardly "fleshed out" and players wanted stats, so Dieties & Demi-gods came out providing the stats for several earth pantheons and the GH demi-human pantheons. DMs were encouraged to use whichever dieties appealed to them. Some early modules like "white plume mountain" used posiden. Ofcourse over time as material was added to the gameworld, the GH pantheon was created and over time took shape, that we all know today.
#5 Mortepierre Aug 27, 2005 2:09:35	On the other hand, these two pantheons made more than an appearance in the FR. Sune, for example, is clearly Aphrodite. Then, there is Tyr, etc... Somehow, I am happy it turned out that way. At least GH can cling to its own unique identity.
#6 max_writer Aug 27, 2005 5:33:28	A Native American god's persona made an appearance in a 2nd Ed adventure in Dungeon Magazine. The god Red Fox was the parallel of the god Coyote in the adventure "Ghost Dance." I used the Greek gods in my early campaigns due to their familiarity. I slowly phased them out however. It seems like I read about a temple of a Greek god in one of the old adventures, however.
#7 scoti_garbidis Aug 27, 2005 7:54:19	A Native American god's persona made an appearance in a 2nd Ed adventure in Dungeon Magazine. The god Red Fox was the parallel of the god Coyote in the adventure "Ghost Dance." I used the Greek gods in my early campaigns due to their familiarity. I slowly phased them out however. It seems like I read about a temple of a Greek god in one of the old adventures, however. The 2nd Edition Adventure "Ghost Dance" can be found in Dungeon #32 for any who may be interested in reading the info. It does explain the origin of Red Fox coming from the god Coyote and also gives a reference to check out the 2nd Edition Legends & Lore book for more info.
#8 pauln6 Sep 01, 2005 7:28:35	I think that Thrym ans Surtur were officially recognised by Greyhawk frost and fire giants. Beyond that, I don't recall any other direct parallels.
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 01, 2005 10:59:48	I think the Norse pantheon fits in well in the Ice, Snow and Frost Barbarian Kingdoms. I used them with my DM's permission when I played PC's from the Cold North. After the Five Blades adventures it wasn't too difficult to make Odin/Wotan change his name to Vatun. Not too sure where the Greek Gods would fit in...someplace off the map with brilliant white columns perhaps?
#10 caeruleus Sep 01, 2005 12:37:12	Also remember that before 3e, all of the campaign worlds were connected, and they shared the same cosmology. So the outer planes would have Greyhawk deities, Dragonlance deities, Greek deities, Norse deities, etc, etc.
#11 pauln6 Sep 05, 2005 7:45:13	As far as I know, that's still the case. Just because the Norse & Greek Gods have no worshippers on Oerth doesn't mean that they don't exist. It gives you the option of using them or not depending on the justification for a mortal on Oerth being aware of their identity.
#12 extempus Feb 07, 2006 23:34:00	In the 1st Ed. DMG (p. 112), EGG wrote: In my own Greyhawk Campaign there have been 9 demigods, 3 demon lords, and a handful of Norse and other gods involved in the course of many years of play. Then we have "The Black Acropolis" adventure in the 2nd Ed. The Vortex of Madness that involves the Titans (the progenitors of the Greek gods; Zeus is also mentioned) in Tarterus/Carceri.